Omiyale

[Guest TerraTor]

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/ChalkTalk...p?story_id=6571

 

February 23, 2010

Wondering about a player, a past game or another issue involving the Bears? Senior writer Larry Mayer answers a variety of email questions from fans every day on ChicagoBears.com.

 

Do you think the Bears will play Frank Omiyale at guard or tackle this season?

 

Ryan T.

Lemont, Illinois

 

I think that depends on what the Bears do in free agency and the draft to upgrade their offensive line. If they sign or draft a tackle who can contribute this season, I could see Frank Omiyale remaining at guard. But if they bolster their line with an inside player, I think Omiyale could play right tackle. We’ll see how it all shakes out in minicamp and OTAs this spring. Omiyale started 12 games at left guard in his first season with the Bears in 2009 after playing tackle in previous stints with the Falcons and Panthers.

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Was there anyone else who played as terrible as this clown? Reminds me of Q. Mitchell, possibly worse

[Connorbear]

I believe most of his money was up front and we have him for 3 more years. Further, he did show improvement after benching. It would be foolish to cut him now. If he plays like crap in the preseason, then launch him.

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

I think there are several factors, and yes, money is one. When a team signs a player for a significant contract, it is not often he is cut after one season. But you have to consider some other factors.

 

Omiyale may not be as young as a rookie, but he was a very inexperienced player, and playing a position different from the one he had practiced and developed at. It was always said and believed he would be a player that would need to develop. Further, it can be argued he did show signs of developing, finishing the season on a fairly positive note. I think there may also be a small question of how much of the poor play had to do w/ Pace, who was equally awful at LT, next to him. Once Williams moved to LT, Omiyale's play seemed to improve? Coincidence?

 

OL is a big problem area, but in depth as well as along the starters. In Omiyale, I am sure the staff looks at him and thinks, he showed development and improvement at OG, and can also move back to RT, the position many feel is more natural for him and where he was developed by Carolina. In keeping Omiyale, Angelo can add either an OG or RT and play Omiyale at the spot not upgraded.

 

I have no problem keeping Omiyale on the team. My key hope is we allow an honest competition, whether at OG or RT. If Omiyale looks like the player that started the season, then he is on the bench. If he looks more like the player who finished the season at OG, or the player who played well for Carolina at OT, then he may start. But the key is not to assume he is the starter and make him earn it.

 

I believe most of his money was up front and we have him for 3 more years. Further, he did show improvement after benching. It would be foolish to cut him now. If he plays like crap in the preseason, then launch him.

 

Peace

 

[madlithuanian]

You know the definition of insanity, right?

 

"My key hope is we allow an honest competition..."

 

[nfoligno]

Yes, but I don't think that is the case here. A greater link to insanity would be to do absolutely nothing (maybe add a 7th rounder) to the OL and simply expect them to suddently be great.

 

W/ Omiyale, I think it is far more a matter of development. As I have said, Omiyale is no rookie, but when you consider his past experience, you can also relate him to one. You don't throw away a player who you expected to need time to develop because he didn't show instant ability. Expecting a player to further his development, especially one who did show a level of development to end the prior season, is not insanity.

 

If Omiyale finished the year as he began, and we circled him in as our starter again at OG w/ no backup plan, then I would agree we were insane. But w/ his development, and if we have a more open mentality as to his being an OG, RT, or even depth, then I disagree with the insanity.

 

You know the definition of insanity, right?

 

[madlithuanian]

And you really feel there will be a true open competition given the history of this current regime?

 

A greater insanity are the minds of JA and Zombie Smith... Lords known what cobwebs, loose change, and dust bunnies are bouncing around in there...

 

I personally would like to see Omiyale get a shot at RT...his more natural spot. But, virtually everything I (and most posters) would like to see with this current regime has about a zero chance of happening...

 

 

 

Yes, but I don't think that is the case here. A greater link to insanity would be to do absolutely nothing (maybe add a 7th rounder) to the OL and simply expect them to suddently be great.

 

W/ Omiyale, I think it is far more a matter of development. As I have said, Omiyale is no rookie, but when you consider his past experience, you can also relate him to one. You don't throw away a player who you expected to need time to develop because he didn't show instant ability. Expecting a player to further his development, especially one who did show a level of development to end the prior season, is not insanity.

 

If Omiyale finished the year as he began, and we circled him in as our starter again at OG w/ no backup plan, then I would agree we were insane. But w/ his development, and if we have a more open mentality as to his being an OG, RT, or even depth, then I disagree with the insanity.

 

[nfoligno]

Just as a reminder, for perspective, I was bashing the crap out of Lovie and Angie when most were still in love with them. My opinion has not changed. Back to Omiyale,

 

I honestly believe that Angelo will be looking to add one OL. We do not have a 1st round pick, and I have not heard of many (any) total studs available, I do think one of the top FAs we sign this offseason will be for the OL.

 

I believe the staff believes that Omiyale helps provide flexibility in the above. Is there is a RT they love, they can keep Omiyale at OG. If there is an OG they love, they can move him to RT.

 

I believe that Omiyale will likely start out camp as the starter at either OG or RT, but there will be a big difference from last year to this year. Last year, most who watched camp said Beekman looked better, and by a significant margin, but we still bumped up Omiyale to the starter role, as he is who the team simply wanted to start. But while his play at the end of the season helped his cause, his play for most of the year I believe shortened his leash, considerably. He will start out as the starter, but could lose that job in camp, whether to Beekman inside, Schaffer outside, some we add or someone else on the roster. Point is, last year I think he was a lock (in the staff's minds) to start while this year he is far from a sure thing.

 

We talk often about Lovie, and even Angelo, but in terms of whether Omiyale starts or not, I think Tice and Martz are FAR greater factors.

 

And you really feel there will be a true open competition given the history of this current regime?

 

A greater insanity are the minds of JA and Zombie Smith... Lords known what cobwebs, loose change, and dust bunnies are bouncing around in there...

 

I personally would like to see Omiyale get a shot at RT...his more natural spot. But, virtually everything I (and most posters) would like to see with this current regime has about a zero chance of happening...

 

[madlithuanian]

True enough!

 

Good points...

 

But, I'll only believe Martz's and Tice's influence on the invincible shield of Smith's ways when I see it. Until then, I will continue to believe that Zombie ain't relinquishing one atomic particle of power.

 

 

 

Just as a reminder, for perspective, I was bashing the crap out of Lovie and Angie when most were still in love with them. My opinion has not changed. Back to Omiyale,

 

I honestly believe that Angelo will be looking to add one OL. We do not have a 1st round pick, and I have not heard of many (any) total studs available, I do think one of the top FAs we sign this offseason will be for the OL.

 

I believe the staff believes that Omiyale helps provide flexibility in the above. Is there is a RT they love, they can keep Omiyale at OG. If there is an OG they love, they can move him to RT.

 

I believe that Omiyale will likely start out camp as the starter at either OG or RT, but there will be a big difference from last year to this year. Last year, most who watched camp said Beekman looked better, and by a significant margin, but we still bumped up Omiyale to the starter role, as he is who the team simply wanted to start. But while his play at the end of the season helped his cause, his play for most of the year I believe shortened his leash, considerably. He will start out as the starter, but could lose that job in camp, whether to Beekman inside, Schaffer outside, some we add or someone else on the roster. Point is, last year I think he was a lock (in the staff's minds) to start while this year he is far from a sure thing.

 

We talk often about Lovie, and even Angelo, but in terms of whether Omiyale starts or not, I think Tice and Martz are FAR greater factors.

 

[AZ54]

I'm very curious to know what Tice thinks of Omiyale. I know he said he liked him when he first came aboard but where does he think he belongs? We won't know that until after the draft or it would give away our intentions. After the initial press conferences it's clear the team has gone into lockdown in preparation for FA and the draft. Even the potential signing of Ruskell to run the personnel department is not getting much PR. Is there a job search to replace DePaul or not?

[bradjock]

Prediction: Kevin Shaffer will be the "Anthony Adams" of the o-line. Adams is always good but not great. So he gets bench for a player with a better "up-side."

 

We see something we really like in Omiyale. I'm not sure why since he looks fat & slow. I'm predicting he'll get handed the RT job and inevitably lose it to Shaffer.

 

As for Omiyale, he was a great back-up swing-tackle in Carolina. Not worth what we paid for him but it makes him worth keeping him around IMO.

[nfoligno]

From what I read, if we do plan to replace DePaul, it likely would not happen until after the draft.

 

I'm very curious to know what Tice thinks of Omiyale. I know he said he liked him when he first came aboard but where does he think he belongs? We won't know that until after the draft or it would give away our intentions. After the initial press conferences it's clear the team has gone into lockdown in preparation for FA and the draft. Even the potential signing of Ruskell to run the personnel department is not getting much PR. Is there a job search to replace DePaul or not?

 

[nfoligno]

The difference w/ Adams, IMHO, is that Adams seems to be held back because he doesn't fit what the staff wants in a DT. Schaffer I think is simply an average player. I get the comparison, but just see a bit of difference.

 

I get what, in theory, the staff likes about Omiyale. They wanted to get bigger and more powerful on the OL, and thus why they prefer him to Beekman, who wins battles with leverage and technique rather than raw power. Problem is, Omiyale may be more powerful, that just didn't equate to better play.

 

What still drives me nuts is the inconsistency. We had a more drop step, finesse blocking scheme, but had a power back in Benson. In other words, we didn't have a blocking scheme that seemed to match the RBs strengths. Then we get rid of Benson and add Forte, who seemed initially to be a good fit for that blocking scheme, but after one season, we then tried to alter our blocking to a more power scheme. That would have been good for Benson, but not so much for Forte, who would have been better off if we simply kept that more finesse system.

 

That is something I hope Tice can bring. We need a scheme that matches both OL strengths and RBs.

 

Prediction: Kevin Shaffer will be the "Anthony Adams" of the o-line. Adams is always good but not great. So he gets bench for a player with a better "up-side."

 

We see something we really like in Omiyale. I'm not sure why since he looks fat & slow. I'm predicting he'll get handed the RT job and inevitably lose it to Shaffer.

 

As for Omiyale, he was a great back-up swing-tackle in Carolina. Not worth what we paid for him but it makes him worth keeping him around IMO.

 

[bradjock]

The difference w/ Adams, IMHO, is that Adams seems to be held back because he doesn't fit what the staff wants in a DT. Schaffer I think is simply an average player. I get the comparison, but just see a bit of difference.

 

Like Schaffer, Adams is very average. He doesn't make big plays and I'm guessing he'd be average on any team. The only reason I called him "good" is that he's the only DT that doesn't look awful at times . . . which isn't saying much for our DT's. Either way, Schaffer doesn't seem to be a bruiser or a finesse player.

 

I get what, in theory, the staff likes about Omiyale. They wanted to get bigger and more powerful on the OL, and thus why they prefer him to Beekman, who wins battles with leverage and technique rather than raw power. Problem is, Omiyale may be more powerful, that just didn't equate to better play.

 

Either way, if Omiyale couldn't play better then Beekman at RG, how the hell's he going to beat out Schaffer at RT???

 

What still drives me nuts is the inconsistency. We had a more drop step, finesse blocking scheme, but had a power back in Benson. In other words, we didn't have a blocking scheme that seemed to match the RBs strengths. Then we get rid of Benson and add Forte, who seemed initially to be a good fit for that blocking scheme, but after one season, we then tried to alter our blocking to a more power scheme. That would have been good for Benson, but not so much for Forte, who would have been better off if we simply kept that more finesse system.

 

I disagree. Forte is a nice powerful straight-line runner. How does a finesse system help him? It's not like he's a scat-back who will make a ton of guys miss. The main problem IMO was Pace who was just god-awful in run-blocking because he couldn't run or get up-field. I sure as hell don't blame JA for gambling on him though.

 

That is something I hope Tice can bring. We need a scheme that matches both OL strengths and RBs.

 

What I think will be interesting is what we'll do with Pace. We haven't cut him and he hasn't retired which leads me to believe we're thinking about keeping him around as a RT. I thought he was pretty good in pass-protection, just awful in run-blocking. Since Martz likes to fling it a ton, he might be okay on the right side. We seem to like the combination of Chris Williams and Omiyale on the left side.

 

 

[nfoligno]

Like Schaffer, Adams is very average. He doesn't make big plays and I'm guessing he'd be average on any team. The only reason I called him "good" is that he's the only DT that doesn't look awful at times . . . which isn't saying much for our DT's. Either way, Schaffer doesn't seem to be a bruiser or a finesse player.

 

I personally have always had a higher opinion of Adams. No, he isn't a big pass rusher, but he does play solid or better vs the run, and is an all around solid DT. The staff doesn't value his play as they want pass rushers, but I have always been of the opinion that you need a run stuffer at one of the two DT positions.

 

Either way, if Omiyale couldn't play better then Beekman at RG, how the hell's he going to beat out Schaffer at RT???

 

Many have said OT is Omiyale's more natural position. Further, that is the position he had developed at since entering the NFL. I think there is very much a legit rationale to believing he could play better at RT than what we saw at OG.

 

I disagree. Forte is a nice powerful straight-line runner. How does a finesse system help him? It's not like he's a scat-back who will make a ton of guys miss. The main problem IMO was Pace who was just god-awful in run-blocking because he couldn't run or get up-field. I sure as hell don't blame JA for gambling on him though.

 

I think Forte is more similar to a RB like TJ than Benson. In the former blocking scheme, Forte was able to find more holes to run in than he was this past year. OL was a problem, but frankly, even when there were holes, I felt Forte did a poor job of taking advantage.

 

What I think will be interesting is what we'll do with Pace. We haven't cut him and he hasn't retired which leads me to believe we're thinking about keeping him around as a RT. I thought he was pretty good in pass-protection, just awful in run-blocking. Since Martz likes to fling it a ton, he might be okay on the right side. We seem to like the combination of Chris Williams and Omiyale on the left side.

 

Man, we could not disagree more. I thought he was flat out awful in pass protection as well as run blocking. He lacked the bend in run blocking and the quickness in pass protection. DEs seemed to turn the corner on him nearly at will. As bad as Omiyale was at the start of the year, I often pointed out how poorly I felt Pace played as well.

 

I think the only reason we have not cut him is the expectation he retires. If he doesn't retire, I would expect to cut him. Why keep him? Williams played well at LT, and there is zero reason to move him back to RT at this point. Pace has said he doesn't want to move to RT, and I can't see him being content to simply ride the pine to provide depth. Pace is done. His flat out awful play last year should have proven that to all.

 

[bradjock]

I personally have always had a higher opinion of Adams. No, he isn't a big pass rusher, but he does play solid or better vs the run, and is an all around solid DT. The staff doesn't value his play as they want pass rushers, but I have always been of the opinion that you need a run stuffer at one of the two DT positions.

 

If Adams was a free agent he find work but teams wouldn't be beating down his door. He's an average starting caliber NFL player.

 

Many have said OT is Omiyale's more natural position. Further, that is the position he had developed at since entering the NFL. I think there is very much a legit rationale to believing he could play better at RT than what we saw at OG.

 

That reminds me of Terry Shea deciding Q Mitchell sucked at guard because LT was his natural position. That's not a fair comparison, because unlike Mitchell, Omiyale is a legit NFL player . . . just not a very good one. IMO, if he's mediocre at guard he'll be mediocre at tackle. Since we haven't purged Pace, doesn't that mean we're still looking to keep him at guard?

 

I think Forte is more similar to a RB like TJ than Benson. In the former blocking scheme, Forte was able to find more holes to run in than he was this past year. OL was a problem, but frankly, even when there were holes, I felt Forte did a poor job of taking advantage.

 

True, but it's tough to tell because all season long, Forte never looked as fast or explosive as he did the previous year.

 

Man, we could not disagree more. I thought he was flat out awful in pass protection as well as run blocking. He lacked the bend in run blocking and the quickness in pass protection. DEs seemed to turn the corner on him nearly at will. As bad as Omiyale was at the start of the year, I often pointed out how poorly I felt Pace played as well.

 

With Pace I think about the 49er game. Pace was great in pass protection. As soon as he suffered the head injury, we replaced him with Schaffer and the DE was all over Cutler. There was a noticeable drop-off. I concede the o-line looked one helluva a lot better overall without Pace.

 

I think the only reason we have not cut him is the expectation he retires. If he doesn't retire, I would expect to cut him. Why keep him? Williams played well at LT, and there is zero reason to move him back to RT at this point. Pace has said he doesn't want to move to RT, and I can't see him being content to simply ride the pine to provide depth. Pace is done. His flat out awful play last year should have proven that to all.

 

As for him not wanting to move to the right side, there is no team in the league that will sign him to be their starting LT. It's either move to the right or hang it up. JA likes to give veteran players a chance to find a new home, so why have we kept him? I'm guessing it's because he might be a fit for what Martz wants to do.

[nfoligno]

If Adams was a free agent he find work but teams wouldn't be beating down his door. He's an average starting caliber NFL player.

 

Considering the way we have used him, I agree no one would be knocking down his door, though he would find work. At the same time, that doesn't mean it would indicate his true worth. Again, it is more a difference of philosophy. Angelo wants athleticism and all pass rushers. Sounds nice until you see RBs killing you. I see no reason why we can't try to have 3 pass rushers on the DL, w/ one inside that can stuff the run.

 

That reminds me of Terry Shea deciding Q Mitchell sucked at guard because LT was his natural position. That's not a fair comparison, because unlike Mitchell, Omiyale is a legit NFL player . . . just not a very good one. IMO, if he's mediocre at guard he'll be mediocre at tackle. Since we haven't purged Pace, doesn't that mean we're still looking to keep him at guard?

 

Uh, yea, that is a very unfair comparison. Not just because Omiyale is a legit NFL player, as you say, but because he previously has shown he can play OT. That is where he was developed in Carolina, and played when a starter went down with injury. He played well enough at OT for us to throw a bunch of money his way. I think there is a belief that any OT can play OG, and if they can't play OG, then they can't play OT, but I disagree. There is simply a difference in the position. Some players play better in space, which caters to an OT. Also, OGs need much better knee bend for the quick leverage necessary, while OTs don't always play as low to the ground.

 

Look, I am not saying he can play OT. I am saying his play at OT is what our scouts liked, and what drew out attention. It is where he was developed, and the position I have so often read is considered his natural position.

 

I think Forte is more similar to a RB like TJ than Benson. In the former blocking scheme, Forte was able to find more holes to run in than he was this past year. OL was a problem, but frankly, even when there were holes, I felt Forte did a poor job of taking advantage.

 

With Pace I think about the 49er game. Pace was great in pass protection. As soon as he suffered the head injury, we replaced him with Schaffer and the DE was all over Cutler. There was a noticeable drop-off. I concede the o-line looked one helluva a lot better overall without Pace.

 

I'll be honest. I don't recall that game. But I recall many others where he was simply abused, both in the pass and run. In fact, I think he was worse vs the pass than the run, and he was bad in the run game, so that says a lot. I think Pace is simply done.

 

As for him not wanting to move to the right side, there is no team in the league that will sign him to be their starting LT. It's either move to the right or hang it up. JA likes to give veteran players a chance to find a new home, so why have we kept him? I'm guessing it's because he might be a fit for what Martz wants to do.

 

I don't know. I just don't get it. Would you agree it would make no sense to play him at LT? If so, then you are suggesting we are keeping him to play RT. But you always said he plays poorly on run downs, which implies a lack of power and knee bend/ leverage. Well, the RT is supposed to be your more powerful position, and if an OT struggled w/ power on the left, why would you play well on the right? As for Martz scheme, that is what is really scary. In Martz scheme, he often puts OTs on an island as he doesn't like to give help w/ chip blocks. That takes away a potential weapon. Leaving Pace on an island is a good way to get Cutler killed.

 

 

[bradjock]

Angelo wants athleticism and all pass rushers. Sounds nice until you see RBs killing you. I see no reason why we can't try to have 3 pass rushers on the DL, w/ one inside that can stuff the run.

 

If we had 3 guys on the line who could actually pass rush, we probably wouldn't need a run-stuffer.

 

Uh, yea, that is a very unfair comparison. Not just because Omiyale is a legit NFL player, as you say, but because he previously has shown he can play OT. That is where he was developed in Carolina, and played when a starter went down with injury. He played well enough at OT for us to throw a bunch of money his way. I think there is a belief that any OT can play OG, and if they can't play OG, then they can't play OT, but I disagree. There is simply a difference in the position. Some players play better in space, which caters to an OT. Also, OGs need much better knee bend for the quick leverage necessary, while OTs don't always play as low to the ground.

 

That one game Omiyale started in his career before coming to the Bears must have been something. Question: We're we talking about Omiyale playing guard before we signed Orlado Pace? I ask, because the Pace deal never happens IMO if we hadn't traded for Cuter on April 2nd. When we signed Pace, we'd already had Scfaffer and Omiyale on the roster. Did we sign Omiyale with the intention of playing him at guard?

 

I'll be honest. I don't recall that game. But I recall many others where he was simply abused, both in the pass and run. In fact, I think he was worse vs the pass than the run, and he was bad in the run game, so that says a lot. I think Pace is simply done.

 

I was listening to the game on the radio and the announcers made a big deal of how Cutler startedgetting abused. You're probably right about him being done, but I can't help thinking that the staff may disagree with you. It seems to me like we're keeping Pace as an option depending on what we do in free agency.