Possible Guard

[Guest TerraTor]

I know hes been rediculously strange the past two years, but 2004-2007 totally dominant.

 

http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabi...ws/Default.aspx

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I know hes been rediculously strange the past two years, but 2004-2007 totally dominant.

 

http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabi...ws/Default.aspx

 

I think by "strange" you mean injured? From what I read he was out since '08 with a back(?) injury? Probably should pass on this one.

[Guest TerraTor]

I think by "strange" you mean injured? From what I read he was out since '08 with a back(?) injury? Probably should pass on this one.

 

not only that but labeled as Bi-polar

[bradjock]

If the season started today, Josh Beekman would be the starting LG with Lance Louis as the backup. Unless we sign someone else, Frank Omiyale will battle it out for the RT spot. We've said good things about Louis, but he was a 7th round pick who might end up becoming our blocking TE. Seemingly every year we bench Beekman.

 

Either we:

a) Sign a free agent on the cheap (I can't imagine we'll add much more to our payroll), or

Draft a guy in the 3rd round and hope he can contribute immediately.

 

I'm all for plan a. Andrews was pretty damn good for the Eagles at one point. Whether it's Andrews or someone else, we need a good/cheap guard.

[nfoligno]

One. If the season started today, I think Omiyale would be our starting LG. After being benched, he was again started at LG and finished pretty solid. If we add an OG, I agree Omiyale could move to RT, but w/o that addition, Omiyale is still likely our LG.

 

Two. The staff just does not look at Beekman and see an LG. Frankly, they said as much his rookie year. I recall when he was moved to LG in camp due to various injuries. The coaches even then said he had too small of a build to play OG, and yet he started there all year and did pretty well. Regardless, the staff just never felt he was big enough and continued to try and replace him. Similar to other positions on this team, it seems like our coaches make fairly quick judgments on players and there is virtually nothing a player can do to change those opinions.

 

We have a new set of coaches now, so it could be interesting to see how things change, but I still think that lacking the addition of an OG, Omiyale is still looked at there.

 

Three. You continue to beat the drum of Louis being used as a blocking TE, but let me ask, have you ever read or heard that? I know there was talk about his position the day he was drafted, but since then, he was set up as an OL, and the staff have been pretty out-spoken as to his development along the OL. I have never actually read about our staff looking at Louis as a blocking TE, even on occasion. Have you?

 

Everyone assumes Omiyale will be moved to RT, but I am not so sure. This is simply not a great year for OGs, either in FA or the draft. On the other hand, this is said to be a great draft, both in terms of talent level and depth, for OTs in the draft. So I can see us getting an OT in the draft, but keeping Omiyale at OG.

 

If the season started today, Josh Beekman would be the starting LG with Lance Louis as the backup. Unless we sign someone else, Frank Omiyale will battle it out for the RT spot. We've said good things about Louis, but he was a 7th round pick who might end up becoming our blocking TE. Seemingly every year we bench Beekman.

 

Either we:

a) Sign a free agent on the cheap (I can't imagine we'll add much more to our payroll), or

Draft a guy in the 3rd round and hope he can contribute immediately.

 

I'm all for plan a. Andrews was pretty damn good for the Eagles at one point. Whether it's Andrews or someone else, we need a good/cheap guard.

 

[nfoligno]

What about Rob Sims. RFA OG from Seattle. From what I read, he was not tendered very high (don't know why) and would cost a 4th round pick to sign. A friends who is a bears fan in Seattle mentioned him. Said many felt he was their best OL last year. Young OG with starting experience, and has drawn interest from several other teams, indicacting others realize he has value too.

 

While we don't exactly have the draft picks to spare, a 4th round pick for a starting level OG seems like a pretty good deal to me.

 

I know hes been rediculously strange the past two years, but 2004-2007 totally dominant.

 

http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabi...ws/Default.aspx

 

[madlithuanian]

Works for me...

 

What about Rob Sims. RFA OG from Seattle. From what I read, he was not tendered very high (don't know why) and would cost a 4th round pick to sign. A friends who is a bears fan in Seattle mentioned him. Said many felt he was their best OL last year. Young OG with starting experience, and has drawn interest from several other teams, indicacting others realize he has value too.

 

While we don't exactly have the draft picks to spare, a 4th round pick for a starting level OG seems like a pretty good deal to me.

 

[defiantgiant]

not only that but labeled as Bi-polar

Yeah, he's been struggling with severe depression and the word is that he doesn't want to play football any more.

[bradjock]

What about Rob Sims. RFA OG from Seattle. From what I read, he was not tendered very high (don't know why) and would cost a 4th round pick to sign. A friends who is a bears fan in Seattle mentioned him. Said many felt he was their best OL last year. Young OG with starting experience, and has drawn interest from several other teams, indicacting others realize he has value too.

 

While we don't exactly have the draft picks to spare, a 4th round pick for a starting level OG seems like a pretty good deal to me.

 

1. I can't imagine we can spend much more money. In this market where everyone is counting their pennies, I'm still flabbergasted that the Bears emerged as the big spenders. I could be wrong, but I don't see us making any more significant financial offers to players. If it's low, Seattle would just match it.

2. We can't afford to give up any more draft picks. With a few bright spots, our last 5 drafts have been pretty awful overall. It's amazing how quickly we went from being the youngest defenses in the league to becoming a bunch of guys in their 30's. We need to add young players.

3. There's other veteran guards we could sign without having to give up a pick.

[bradjock]

One. If the season started today, I think Omiyale would be our starting LG. After being benched, he was again started at LG and finished pretty solid. If we add an OG, I agree Omiyale could move to RT, but w/o that addition, Omiyale is still likely our LG.

 

I'm curious as hell to know what Tice & Martz think about Omiyale & Beekman. I'm sure they've formed opinions, but I've not heard them. Maybe they think Beekman's solid and Shaffer's good enough to start at RT? I'm just saying I'm sure we know which direction we're headed, but we haven't announced it yet.

 

Two. The staff just does not look at Beekman and see an LG. Frankly, they said as much his rookie year. I recall when he was moved to LG in camp due to various injuries. The coaches even then said he had too small of a build to play OG, and yet he started there all year and did pretty well. Regardless, the staff just never felt he was big enough and continued to try and replace him. Similar to other positions on this team, it seems like our coaches make fairly quick judgments on players and there is virtually nothing a player can do to change those opinions.

 

We have a new set of coaches now, so it could be interesting to see how things change, but I still think that lacking the addition of an OG, Omiyale is still looked at there.

 

Agreed, but again, I think it's more about how they view Beekman & Shaffer.

 

Three. You continue to beat the drum of Louis being used as a blocking TE, but let me ask, have you ever read or heard that? I know there was talk about his position the day he was drafted, but since then, he was set up as an OL, and the staff have been pretty out-spoken as to his development along the OL. I have never actually read about our staff looking at Louis as a blocking TE, even on occasion. Have you?

 

All I know is that we spent a ton of money on Manumaleuna to play a unique position. Expecting any of the other TE's to do what he does is laughable. Saying Kellun Davis will back him up makes as much sense as him backing-up Chris Williams. Based on the money we've spent, having a 6th blocking lineman is crucial to Martz. SOMEBODY has to back him up. It's quite possible we'll draft a guy. But if you look at our current roster and see a guy who's capable of doing what Manumleuna does, please share. Not to mention that if we really liked Louis that much, we'd insert him at LG and not have to add anybody else.

 

Everyone assumes Omiyale will be moved to RT, but I am not so sure. This is simply not a great year for OGs, either in FA or the draft. On the other hand, this is said to be a great draft, both in terms of talent level and depth, for OTs in the draft. So I can see us getting an OT in the draft, but keeping Omiyale at OG.

 

That's because it's much easier to find a guard then it is a tackle. Who are we going to find on the cheap or in the 3rd that's immediately better then Shaffer?

[jason]

I know hes been rediculously strange the past two years, but 2004-2007 totally dominant.

 

http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabi...ws/Default.aspx

 

The simple answer is this: YES. Anyone who thinks that looking at Andrews isn't a good idea, well, they have selective memory. The mere fact that people on this board are not terrified by the prospect of going into this season with essentially the same OL talent is unbelievable. The OL was complete trash last year, and it needs more talent. Period.

 

Omilaye is going to start, and that should be something very worrisome to everyone who wants Jay Cutler to do well. For the better part of last year, the words "worst in the league" got grouped with Omilaye too many times for my liking, regardless of how much he "improved."

 

Draft OL. Sign OL. It's absolutely mandatory.

[bradjock]

The simple answer is this: YES. Anyone who thinks that looking at Andrews isn't a good idea, well, they have selective memory. The mere fact that people on this board are not terrified by the prospect of going into this season with essentially the same OL talent is unbelievable. The OL was complete trash last year, and it needs more talent. Period.

 

Omilaye is going to start, and that should be something very worrisome to everyone who wants Jay Cutler to do well. For the better part of last year, the words "worst in the league" got grouped with Omilaye too many times for my liking, regardless of how much he "improved."

 

Draft OL. Sign OL. It's absolutely mandatory.

 

You're right, but I wonder how much this would help. Do you think that drafting a guy in the 3rd round would help much this year? (then what do we do for a safety?) Aside from Andrews, what veteran do we bring in without spend much?

 

I'm assuming you don't think moving Omiyale to RT is the answer? Didn't the o-line look much better at the end of the year? Don't you think Manamaleuna is going to make the line much better?

[Mongo3451]

The simple answer is this: YES. Anyone who thinks that looking at Andrews isn't a good idea, well, they have selective memory. The mere fact that people on this board are not terrified by the prospect of going into this season with essentially the same OL talent is unbelievable. The OL was complete trash last year, and it needs more talent. Period.

 

Omilaye is going to start, and that should be something very worrisome to everyone who wants Jay Cutler to do well. For the better part of last year, the words "worst in the league" got grouped with Omilaye too many times for my liking, regardless of how much he "improved."

 

Draft OL. Sign OL. It's absolutely mandatory.

Right now, I see 4 positions on the team where we are below the league average. 1st being FS, with a close 2nd of LG and RT. Lastly there is DT. If I had my choice, I would take the best availible at each of those positions. I would NOT draft a QB, RB, TE, WR, OLB or SS. The lines and secondary are my only concern. (and for Pete's sake, NO MORE drafting guys that have talent and fell for injury reasons)

 

I'm not sure if any team in the league is average to above at every starting position. So, the Bears are close to being good from the talent standpoint. What I am concerned with again is continuity of the offense. Last year, it was Cutler and 3 new OL. Now, we are looking at Martz and one to two new OL.(plus the most complex playbook in the league)

 

Is anyone else worried about Cutlers ability to anticipate, as is necessary with the Martz scheme? I think he's always relied on his quick release and cannon instead of seeing a play unfold. I really think we need to use him more like Big Ben.

[bradjock]

Right now, I see 4 positions on the team where we are below the league average. 1st being FS, with a close 2nd of LG and RT.

 

Despite what Lovie says, all we ask of our FS is don't get beat deep. The most important pre-requisite for this is intelligence. I'm thinking Craig Steltz might actually be able to fill this need. As for RT, we're not going to be able to find a starting caliber RT in the 3rd round. At least not immediately. I'm curious to see what Omiyale can do if he's moved over there.

 

Lastly there is DT. If I had my choice, I would take the best availible at each of those positions. I would NOT draft a QB, RB, TE, WR, OLB or SS. The lines and secondary are my only concern.

 

After finding a steal like Johnny Knox in the 5th round last year, why wouldn't you want to take a WR? We're going to need more in the Martz system. While we have a lot of SS's, none are very good. I think we should draft a TE, but only one that specializes in blocking. One who's build like Manumaleuna. Not 6-6 250 lbs.

 

(and for Pete's sake, NO MORE drafting guys that have talent and fell for injury reasons)

 

Huh? Where did this come from? Corey Graham and Zach Bowman both slipped to the 5th round due to injury concerns. Both were nice picks. If you can get a guy with 1st round talent in the 5th, why wouldn't you? Chris Williams might have slipped, but he made up for it by starting every game is sophomore year. Who else are you talking about?

 

I'm not sure if any team in the league is average to above at every starting position. So, the Bears are close to being good from the talent standpoint. What I am concerned with again is continuity of the offense. Last year, it was Cutler and 3 new OL. Now, we are looking at Martz and one to two new OL.(plus the most complex playbook in the league)

 

If you look at the history of Martz offenses, they take off their first year. Not to mention, as for our o-line, we finished the season with Williams, Omiyale, Kreutz, Garza, and Shaffer. There's a damn good chance that's what opening day will look like.

 

Is anyone else worried about Cutlers ability to anticipate, as is necessary with the Martz scheme? I think he's always relied on his quick release and cannon instead of seeing a play unfold. I really think we need to use him more like Big Ben.

 

Cutler's a lot more talented then Big Ben. That and he's never raped anyone

[Mongo3451]

name='bradjock' date='Mar 21 2010, 12:48 PM' post='79367']

Despite what Lovie says, all we ask of our FS is don't get beat deep. The most important pre-requisite for this is intelligence. I'm thinking Craig Steltz might actually be able to fill this need. As for RT, we're not going to be able to find a starting caliber RT in the 3rd round. At least not immediately. I'm curious to see what Omiyale can do if he's moved over there. Loadholt started RT for Minny last year. Why can't we find one? You are higher on Steltz than I am. Also, Lovie says our safeties are interchangeable. We all know that's not true.

 

After finding a steal like Johnny Knox in the 5th round last year, why wouldn't you want to take a WR? We're going to need more in the Martz system. While we have a lot of SS's, none are very good. I think we should draft a TE, but only one that specializes in blocking. One who's build like Manumaleuna. Not 6-6 250 lbs.We are young and talented enough at WR. I'd like to see what Iglesias can do before throwing another pick on WR. Drafting a TE would be completly insane.

 

Huh? Where did this come from? Corey Graham and Zach Bowman both slipped to the 5th round due to injury concerns. Both were nice picks. If you can get a guy with 1st round talent in the 5th, why wouldn't you? Chris Williams might have slipped, but he made up for it by starting every game is sophomore year. Who else are you talking about? Not much time. I'll have to answer with the list later.

 

If you look at the history of Martz offenses, they take off their first year. Not to mention, as for our o-line, we finished the season with Williams, Omiyale, Kreutz, Garza, and Shaffer. There's a damn good chance that's what opening day will look like. There are pro's and cons with that take off. Stats can be decieving.

 

Cutler's a lot more talented then Big Ben. That and he's never raped anyone Talent has never been the issue with Cutler. It's between his ears that's in question. Honestly, what makes Cutler more talented than Big Ben? Smart talented guys can make dumbass descisions. Cutler on field, Ben off.

[GrizzlyBear]

right now we have 5 guards on the roster, with only 3 tackles, Shaffer Williams and Marten. Marten has been inactive his career so far except for one game. I see more a need for tackle at this point.

[bradjock]

right now we have 5 guards on the roster, with only 3 tackles, Shaffer Williams and Marten. Marten has been inactive his career so far except for one game. I see more a need for tackle at this point.

 

Just because we have bodies on our roster doesn't mean much. Who the hell is Johan Asiata???

 

We need either one guard or one tackle. The difference being what we decide to do with Omiyale. While he's listed at guard, IMO we'll move him outside.

 

At guard/center we'll have Beekman, Garza, Kreutz and probably Lance Louis. At tackle it's Shaffer & Williams. Then Omiyale. We're not going to carry more then 8 offensive lineman. Either Shaffer's the back-up or Beekman.

 

It's not that hard to find a quality veteran guard via free agency.

 

[bradjock]

Loadholt started RT for Minny last year. Why can't we find one? You are higher on Steltz than I am. Also, Lovie says our safeties are interchangeable. We all know that's not true.

 

As for RT, Shaffer's a solid pro. He's just very average. I can't imagine any rookie beating him out.

 

Our safeties were bad but our entire secondary was bad. We'll see if we can get pass pressure and if it will make a difference.

 

We are young and talented enough at WR. I'd like to see what Iglesias can do before throwing another pick on WR. Drafting a TE would be completly insane.

 

As for our WR's, Knox & Hester both seem ideal for the slot. Bennett is your across the middle guy. DA is interesting as hell. Then there's Iglesius. We easily have room for a 6th WR.

 

With TE, as I have mentioned, we need another true blocking TE.

 

There are pro's and cons with that take off. Stats can be decieving.

 

The main question is how good Chris Williams can be as our every day LT. Tait talked about how difficult it was to switch from the right to the left. If Williams can be above average, that changes everything.

 

 

[nfoligno]

1. I can't imagine we can spend much more money. In this market where everyone is counting their pennies, I'm still flabbergasted that the Bears emerged as the big spenders. I could be wrong, but I don't see us making any more significant financial offers to players. If it's low, Seattle would just match it.

 

Likely agree, but as you said, we were all shocked at the money spent on Peppers, so at this point, who knows.

 

2. We can't afford to give up any more draft picks. With a few bright spots, our last 5 drafts have been pretty awful overall. It's amazing how quickly we went from being the youngest defenses in the league to becoming a bunch of guys in their 30's. We need to add young players.

 

Sims is 26, and won't even turn 27 until the end of the season. That is still young, but with some experience. IMHO, you almost make an argument here for going after Sims. As you say, our recent drafts have not been very good, and thus it could be argued the value of a 4th round pick is not as great, and especially when compared against a known solid, starting player.

 

3. There's other veteran guards we could sign without having to give up a pick.

 

Who? This was a bad overall crop of FAs to begin with, at worse at the OG position. There may be other OGs out there, but not many who would be considered upgrades, and that is saying a lot considering our talent level.

[nfoligno]

Is anyone else worried about Cutlers ability to anticipate, as is necessary with the Martz scheme? I think he's always relied on his quick release and cannon instead of seeing a play unfold. I really think we need to use him more like Big Ben.

 

I am not so worried about this as I am simply Cutler and the WRs getting on the same page. It is not the anticipation aspect that worries me so much, but the manner in which Cutler will be required to throw to spots the WR is expected to be. That means if our WRs do not run the right route, and do so w/ the same timing at in practice, the pass will be incomplete, or worse. That is my greater concern.

[nfoligno]

Despite what Lovie says, all we ask of our FS is don't get beat deep. The most important pre-requisite for this is intelligence. I'm thinking Craig Steltz might actually be able to fill this need. As for RT, we're not going to be able to find a starting caliber RT in the 3rd round. At least not immediately. I'm curious to see what Omiyale can do if he's moved over there.

 

Disagree two-ford. One, I think we very much would like to see far more from our FS, but we have fielded such weak FS', our expectations have been lowered. Look at how Lovie used Mike Brown. We asked far more of our FS then. Two, we can always hope Steltz could play FS, but I am not sure we have seen enough to give much of an expectation. steltz frankly displayed much of what was expected pre-draft. He can play in and near the box, but really struggles downfield. Typical of our SS', but not what you want.

 

After finding a steal like Johnny Knox in the 5th round last year, why wouldn't you want to take a WR? We're going to need more in the Martz system. While we have a lot of SS's, none are very good. I think we should draft a TE, but only one that specializes in blocking. One who's build like Manumaleuna. Not 6-6 250 lbs.

 

I understand your point about WR, but on the other hand, we are loaded at WR w/ more talent and options than at most other positions. W/ few picks and many holes, I don't think we are in a position to draft positions that are more stable, and need to focus on our holes. You argue for drafting a SS saying none are very good, but our prospects at SS are far better than FS, which you seem to argue against above. I don't care if we draft a blocking TE in the 7th, but this is simply not much of a need. Even looking at positions where we have starters and need to draft for depth, there are far bigger depth holes than at TE.

 

Huh? Where did this come from? Corey Graham and Zach Bowman both slipped to the 5th round due to injury concerns. Both were nice picks. If you can get a guy with 1st round talent in the 5th, why wouldn't you? Chris Williams might have slipped, but he made up for it by starting every game is sophomore year. Who else are you talking about?

 

The majority of picks we have made on players who fell in the draft due to injury concern have not panned out. You mention Graham, but he went down w/ injury his first year, played okay his 2nd, and has since been in the coach's doghouse and doesn't seem to be a factor. Bowman had one good year, and another he went down his first game. I agree with the idea of avoiding players who have injury red flags.

 

As for Williams, I don't think he would be a good example, as he didn't fall in the draft due to injury concerns. If we passes on him, and others did as well, he could be an example, but we took him where he was expected to go, so he wasn't an example of a player that fell in the draft and was available for great value.

 

If you look at the history of Martz offenses, they take off their first year. Not to mention, as for our o-line, we finished the season with Williams, Omiyale, Kreutz, Garza, and Shaffer. There's a damn good chance that's what opening day will look like.

 

Actually, Martz' passing games take off the first year, but I am not sure the offense as a whole does. His offenses put up big passing stats, but weak rushing, and high turnover rates, w/ mediocre scoring. I think the passing yards a QB like Kitna got under Martz makes people blind to the rest.

 

[bradjock]

Disagree two-ford. One, I think we very much would like to see far more from our FS, but we have fielded such weak FS', our expectations have been lowered. Look at how Lovie used Mike Brown. We asked far more of our FS then.

 

You're forgetting that in '08 we started Brown at FS. We moved him back to SS, not because he was bad, but because we wanted him do do more then drop back in coverage.

 

Two, we can always hope Steltz could play FS, but I am not sure we have seen enough to give much of an expectation. steltz frankly displayed much of what was expected pre-draft. He can play in and near the box, but really struggles downfield. Typical of our SS', but not what you want.

 

When did Steltz get beat deep down-field? I remember it happening, but passes were seemingly always overthrown. If he's good in the box, why don't we ever play him in the box?

 

I understand your point about WR, but on the other hand, we are loaded at WR w/ more talent and options than at most other positions.

 

Bullshit. Seriously. Just about every position we're weak at I could argue we have talent and options. We have talent and options and safety . . . that doesn't mean the talent and options are very good. DA looked like he could be our #1. Are you counting on that? Bennett is solid across the middle. Hester & Knox both suck at route running. If that doesn't improve, how's Martz going to take it. Iglesias??? Rashied??? That's a rough group.

 

The majority of picks we have made on players who fell in the draft due to injury concern have not panned out. You mention Graham, but he went down w/ injury his first year, played okay his 2nd, and has since been in the coach's doghouse and doesn't seem to be a factor. Bowman had one good year, and another he went down his first game. I agree with the idea of avoiding players who have injury red flags.

 

Why would you ignore a 1st round talent who falls to the 5th round due to injury red flags??? That's what I was talking about.

 

As for Williams, I don't think he would be a good example, as he didn't fall in the draft due to injury concerns. If we passes on him, and others did as well, he could be an example, but we took him where he was expected to go, so he wasn't an example of a player that fell in the draft and was available for great value.

 

Agreed. Unless Williams would have been a top 10 pick.

 

Actually, Martz' passing games take off the first year, but I am not sure the offense as a whole does. His offenses put up big passing stats, but weak rushing, and high turnover rates, w/ mediocre scoring. I think the passing yards a QB like Kitna got under Martz makes people blind to the rest.

 

Again, bullshit. How about the '99 greatest show on turf? I do realize that team had a ton of future HOFers but they went from rags to riches overnight. I concede it's difficult to read too much into Detroit or San Fran because those teams were just god awful.

['TD']

I understand your point about WR, but on the other hand, we are loaded at WR

 

Loaded? If a bunch of 3rd and 4th WR's is loaded. No, I don't want to see one drafted in context of the convo, but loaded?

 

 

[nfoligno]

You're forgetting that in '08 we started Brown at FS. We moved him back to SS, not because he was bad, but because we wanted him do do more then drop back in coverage.

 

I think there was more to it that than. Brown was slow and ineffective at FS. Our SS' sucked, and I think may have even seen injury, and we were getting torn up on the ground, thus we moved him. But in 2008, Brown was a shell of himself. Go back to Brown before the injury to see what a FS in our system can do.

 

When did Steltz get beat deep down-field? I remember it happening, but passes were seemingly always overthrown. If he's good in the box, why don't we ever play him in the box?

 

Why don't we ever play him in the box? What, you think our coaches are so awesome now? Don't you think Payne is better in the box, and yet how often did we try to play him at FS? And he isn't the only example. Since Angelo game to us, he has drafted SS bodies to play FS. The only time it worked was with the one guy that he didn't draft (Brown).

 

Bullshit. Seriously. Just about every position we're weak at I could argue we have talent and options.

 

Now that is some BS right there.

 

We have talent and options and safety . . . that doesn't mean the talent and options are very good. DA looked like he could be our #1. Are you counting on that? Bennett is solid across the middle. Hester & Knox both suck at route running. If that doesn't improve, how's Martz going to take it. Iglesias??? Rashied??? That's a rough group.

 

Wow. Knox was a rookie that developed sooner than expected, yet last years solid play is worth what to you now? He sucks at route running? One, I did know that I have read that. Two, he was a freaking rookie. What, he would be a precise route runner as a rookie. Hester isn't great, but he is a damn sight better than you will give him credit.

 

You can call BS, but the argument against is the real BS. Am I saying we are loaded w/ studs at WR? No. But can you honestly tell me you feel more confident w/ so many other positions over WR? I would argue we have seen enough to believe we have potential starters in 4 WRs.

 

Look, I am not dumb enough to simply assume all the potential we talk about will come to fruition. At the same time, at WR, there is at least reason to believe it can happen. I look at our group of safeties, and I am not sure any could start for another team. I look at our CBs, and frankly, I feel little more confident. Yea, we have Tillman and maybe Bowman, but after that, nada. Simply put, there is reason for hope at WR, while at numerous other positions, little to none.

 

Why would you ignore a 1st round talent who falls to the 5th round due to injury red flags??? That's what I was talking about.

 

I guess it is against time to call BS. Sorry, but that just doesn't happen nearly as often as so many want to believe. Most often, there are more than one reason a player slipped in the draft, especially if you are talking about the 5th round. How many guys have we drafted who we heard all about how they were 1st rounders that slipped for this reason or that. DJ Moore and Harrison come to mind.

 

I am not saying you can't strike it big, and frankly, in the 5th round I am far more willing to take chances. 5th rounders have weak odds making NFL rosters regardless of injury, so taking more risk in the 5th round is fine. My issue is taking such risks earlier, particularly the top 3 rounds.

 

Again, bullshit. How about the '99 greatest show on turf? I do realize that team had a ton of future HOFers but they went from rags to riches overnight. I concede it's difficult to read too much into Detroit or San Fran because those teams were just god awful.

 

Starting a response, went back to read the original discussion, came back and deleted what I wrote. It was going off into a Martz scheme tangent. More specific to the question of whether Cutler can do well out of the gate w/ the OL and surrounding talent. You mention how Martz did well early. I would still argue that is questionable. Yes, Stl is an exception, but with exceptional talent to allow such a situation. Do you really think we have talent that even could emerge similar to Stl? Nope.

 

I have said this before, but I think Cutler is going to light it up in terms of yards this year. My concern is TDs, turnovers and rushing.

[nfoligno]

If you are going to quote me, provide the entire quote and not cut off the sentence in the middle.

 

I understand your point about WR, but on the other hand, we are loaded at WR w/ more talent and options than at most other positions.

 

I am not saying we are loaded, plain and simple. I am not saying we have Fitz, Boldin, and the rest of the Az WRs. I am saying we have a greater collection of talent than at most any other position.

 

I feel more confident about our WR position than: CB, S, DL (before Peppers), OL, RB (before FA).

 

You say a bunch of 3rd and 4th WRs. I disagree with that too. Bennett started last year, and played well as a first year starter. DA has much to prove, but showed #1 potential. I would argue Hester has proven capable of being a #2, simply not a #1. Knox was a rookie, and there is no telling what his upside may be.

 

Do you honestly believe none of these WRs are capable of more than #3?

 

Again, the point is not that we are wholey proven and set at WR. Its that when I look at our roster, I see more promise and potential than at most other positions. And when I talk about promise and potential, I am also talking about players who have shown us as NFL players promise and potential. I am not talking about a Marcus Harrison who was supposedly a 1st round value that fell to the 3rd, but who has since shown not even the ability to stay in shape. I am not talking about Louis or any other players drafted in the back of the draft. I am not just saying potential based on age, but on what they have shown on the field.

 

Loaded? If a bunch of 3rd and 4th WR's is loaded. No, I don't want to see one drafted in context of the convo, but loaded?