Alex Brown

[bowlingtwig]

This isn't exactly how I wanted to wake up. Looks like Alex Brown is gone. WTF???????????/

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...0,2111914.story

[daa84]

I'll get roasted for saying this, but I'm fine with trading brown....Alex brown is the Joe Crede of the bears....loved by fans, but way overrated on the field....especially now...brown was a much better player 3 or 4 years ago when he was quick off the ball and could beat guys off the edge...his career high in sacks for one season? 7. He has had 6 the last two years, which frankly, for an every down DE is not very good...especially in this system when you need guys the DEs getting upfield and at the QB to force him to get rid of the ball early. I can't find any statistics on this, but to my untrained eye, Brown used to force QBs into throwing early and making mistakes alot more than he does now. To Brown's credit, he is a very nice run defending DE, but thats not exactly the primary role of right end in the 4-3.

 

Also...the bears need to acquire draft picks. Peppers is going play everydown at one end spot, and they have enough options in Anderson, Idonije, Gilbert to make up for the loss of an aging Brown. That said I can't think we get anymore than a third round draft pick for him. His sack numbers were less than those of Gaines Adams the last 2 years, and Adams had age on his side, Brown doesn't

[Mongo3451]

I'll get roasted for saying this, but I'm fine with trading brown....Alex brown is the Joe Crede of the bears....loved by fans, but way overrated on the field....especially now...brown was a much better player 3 or 4 years ago when he was quick off the ball and could beat guys off the edge...his career high in sacks for one season? 7. He has had 6 the last two years, which frankly, for an every down DE is not very good...especially in this system when you need guys the DEs getting upfield and at the QB to force him to get rid of the ball early. I can't find any statistics on this, but to my untrained eye, Brown used to force QBs into throwing early and making mistakes alot more than he does now. To Brown's credit, he is a very nice run defending DE, but thats not exactly the primary role of right end in the 4-3.

 

Also...the bears need to acquire draft picks. Peppers is going play everydown at one end spot, and they have enough options in Anderson, Idonije, Gilbert to make up for the loss of an aging Brown. That said I can't think we get anymore than a third round draft pick for him. His sack numbers were less than those of Gaines Adams the last 2 years, and Adams had age on his side, Brown doesn't

I agree on your assessment of Brown. But, what type of pick would you hope to get for him? I'm thinking more in the lines of trading players.

 

I realize what they are trying to do: They have Brown who only plays one spot (right). Then they have Peppers and Anderson playing both. Anderson is younger with more potential, so they want him to start and be interchangable as they move Peppers around for mismatches. 5.5 million is too much for a backup RDE, that only plays one side. Idonije can anchor the LDE spot just fine and hopefully Melton can continue to develop.

 

The situation sucks, but I understand it. Brown is a solid player who will be missed.

[bowlingtwig]

I agree on your assessment of Brown. But, what type of pick would you hope to get for him? I'm thinking more in the lines of trading players.

 

I realize what they are trying to do: They have Brown who only plays one spot (right). Then they have Peppers and Anderson playing both. Anderson is younger with more potential, so they want him to start and be interchangable as they move Peppers around for mismatches. 5.5 million is too much for a backup RDE, that only plays one side. Idonije can anchor the LDE spot just fine and hopefully Melton can continue to develop.

 

The situation sucks, but I understand it. Brown is a solid player who will be missed.

Hey, I understand it also but why in the world would you go public and say that if you can't trade the guy that he is going to be released. By saying this you are telling every team this. How many teams do you think will make a trade with us knowing that he is going to be released? try 0. I am pissed at this move because of Biggsy reporting this. This is absolutely horrible. We need to be able to get something in return for him. What has Issy, Anderson and Gilbert done to make Brown expendable? Anderson had a great rookie year but we saw what happened when we made him the starter. Issy is very underrated but he is just now making the switch to DE, I don't have much faith in it at all to make Brown expendable. I got nothing against Gilbert at all since the coaching staff basically red shirted him last year. Lets also keep in mind this coaching staff's track record in drafting DE's. This horrible, unless we are able to get something for Brown.

[nfoligno]

Sorry, but I don't understand this move.

 

For the record, Alex Brown has never been the Joe Crede for me. I was never that great of a fan. I always considered him slightly above average. He is solid and steady, but nothing special. Even when our DL was playing at its peak, he still wasn't able to take his game up a notch.

 

With that said, if we trade Brown, we are creating a hole where this is not currently one. Yes, we just added Peppers. Great. But there are two starting DEs, and sorry, but none other on the team should be counted on to start.

 

Anderson - What happened the last time we thought he could take over for Brown? He proved a total and massive flop. He showed some signs last year of solid play, but come on. He didn't show 10% of what he did as a rookie. Why does anyone think he can start now?

 

Idonije - You want to talk about over-rated fan favorites. To me, arguing we should Idonije can start is about equal to saying Adrian Peterson could start at RB. Idonije is a good player to have on your depth chart. He is a nice option to go to when someone goes down, or to play in a rotation. He is not a player you want to enter the season as your starter. He should be considered depth and a backup plan, not a starter. Let me ask this. If he is such a great DE, why has this staff changed his position (and weight) every year?

 

Melton - later round draft pick who was raw to begin with (remember, he was a RB first couple years in college before switching to defense, and only had one full season as a starter at Texas as a DE) and lost out on his rookie year due to injury.

 

If Adams had not passed away, this move would make more sense. But w/o Adams, I just don't see the point. I get that we lack draft picks and would love to add picks, but does it make sense to create a hole in the process. If we do this, IMHO, it would only mean we would have to use a draft pick on a DE, which seems to sort of defeat the purpose.

 

Again, I am far from Brown's biggest fan. I have always felt he was solid, but little more. At the same time, he is considerably better than our 3rd DE, whoever that is, and likely better than any other DE we would be able to add. Pass rush has been a big weakness for this defense. With the addition of Peppers, we finally have hope that can change. Sorry, I just do not see the sense in this move.

 

This isn't exactly how I wanted to wake up. Looks like Alex Brown is gone. WTF???????????/

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...0,2111914.story

 

[Wesson44]

Hey, I understand it also but why in the world would you go public and say that if you can't trade the guy that he is going to be released. By saying this you are telling every team this. How many teams do you think will make a trade with us knowing that he is going to be released? try 0. I am pissed at this move because of Biggsy reporting this. This is absolutely horrible. We need to be able to get something in return for him. What has Issy, Anderson and Gilbert done to make Brown expendable? Anderson had a great rookie year but we saw what happened when we made him the starter. Issy is very underrated but he is just now making the switch to DE, I don't have much faith in it at all to make Brown expendable. I got nothing against Gilbert at all since the coaching staff basically red shirted him last year. Lets also keep in mind this coaching staff's track record in drafting DE's. This horrible, unless we are able to get something for Brown.

This might be a good move. I see what the Bears are trying to do. You have Peppers who can and does play from both end spots and so does Anderson. When you flip the during the game you can create lots of mismatches as to keeping Brown on the right and Peppers on the left. Then you have izzy and Melton as the back ups this year. Gilbert is going to play DT to go with Harris,Harrison and Adams. What this will do is create speed on the outside with Peppers ,Anderson Izzy and if Melton(converted RB) is ready to play he is much faster than Brown. Now Melton is the same height and weight as Brown, so its just about speed here with these two, but i will admit Brown has the experience at the position so Melton is the 4th DE in the rotation.

[nfoligno]

For the record, I think Melton, not Gilbert, would be the final DE to speak of. Lovie has recently said Gilbert would be developed at DT and Metlon at DE. Unless Lovie is totally ignorant of the idea of moving Brown, it doesn't make sense for him to come out and say Gilbert would be developed as a DT if there were still thoughts of playing him at DE. So it is Anderson, Idonije and Melton. Agreed on your comments about Anderons and Idonije, and Melton is an even bigger reach.

 

Hey, I understand it also but why in the world would you go public and say that if you can't trade the guy that he is going to be released. By saying this you are telling every team this. How many teams do you think will make a trade with us knowing that he is going to be released? try 0. I am pissed at this move because of Biggsy reporting this. This is absolutely horrible. We need to be able to get something in return for him. What has Issy, Anderson and Gilbert done to make Brown expendable? Anderson had a great rookie year but we saw what happened when we made him the starter. Issy is very underrated but he is just now making the switch to DE, I don't have much faith in it at all to make Brown expendable. I got nothing against Gilbert at all since the coaching staff basically red shirted him last year. Lets also keep in mind this coaching staff's track record in drafting DE's. This horrible, unless we are able to get something for Brown.

 

[Wesson44]

Hey this might be a move to clear up some money and get a pick so we can have some ammo to go and get OJ Atogwe the FS from the Rams!!

[bowlingtwig]

Hey this might be a move to clear up some money and get a pick so we can have some ammo to go and get OJ Atogwe the FS from the Rams!!

With us saying that we are going to trade him or release him I don't see us getting a pick for him as teams will just wait until we release him. With the subtraction of Vasher and now Brown I hope we do go after Atogwe or someone to shore up the FS spot.

[madlithuanian]

I don't like this...

 

Brown isn't making that much money and he's been so consistent for so many years.

 

I think Zombie Sith just doesn't like that he speaks his mind and is one of the only ones in the locker room that tells the truth.

 

It'll be a sad day if they let Brown go. I have a feeling we'll get nothing for him and watch him succeed elsewhere.

[bowlingtwig]

This might be a good move. I see what the Bears are trying to do. You have Peppers who can and does play from both end spots and so does Anderson. When you flip the during the game you can create lots of mismatches as to keeping Brown on the right and Peppers on the left. Then you have izzy and Melton as the back ups this year. Gilbert is going to play DT to go with Harris,Harrison and Adams. What this will do is create speed on the outside with Peppers ,Anderson Izzy and if Melton(converted RB) is ready to play he is much faster than Brown. Now Melton is the same height and weight as Brown, so its just about speed here with these two, but i will admit Brown has the experience at the position so Melton is the 4th DE in the rotation.

Now your hoping that our coaching staff is willing to change things up in the middle of game when that haven't even showed the ability to change game plans during half time yet. That is alot of wishing.

[madlithuanian]

 

Great points nfo...

 

 

 

Sorry, but I don't understand this move.

 

For the record, Alex Brown has never been the Joe Crede for me. I was never that great of a fan. I always considered him slightly above average. He is solid and steady, but nothing special. Even when our DL was playing at its peak, he still wasn't able to take his game up a notch.

 

With that said, if we trade Brown, we are creating a hole where this is not currently one. Yes, we just added Peppers. Great. But there are two starting DEs, and sorry, but none other on the team should be counted on to start.

 

Anderson - What happened the last time we thought he could take over for Brown? He proved a total and massive flop. He showed some signs last year of solid play, but come on. He didn't show 10% of what he did as a rookie. Why does anyone think he can start now?

 

Idonije - You want to talk about over-rated fan favorites. To me, arguing we should Idonije can start is about equal to saying Adrian Peterson could start at RB. Idonije is a good player to have on your depth chart. He is a nice option to go to when someone goes down, or to play in a rotation. He is not a player you want to enter the season as your starter. He should be considered depth and a backup plan, not a starter. Let me ask this. If he is such a great DE, why has this staff changed his position (and weight) every year?

 

Melton - later round draft pick who was raw to begin with (remember, he was a RB first couple years in college before switching to defense, and only had one full season as a starter at Texas as a DE) and lost out on his rookie year due to injury.

 

If Adams had not passed away, this move would make more sense. But w/o Adams, I just don't see the point. I get that we lack draft picks and would love to add picks, but does it make sense to create a hole in the process. If we do this, IMHO, it would only mean we would have to use a draft pick on a DE, which seems to sort of defeat the purpose.

 

Again, I am far from Brown's biggest fan. I have always felt he was solid, but little more. At the same time, he is considerably better than our 3rd DE, whoever that is, and likely better than any other DE we would be able to add. Pass rush has been a big weakness for this defense. With the addition of Peppers, we finally have hope that can change. Sorry, I just do not see the sense in this move.

 

[madlithuanian]

Atogwe is on his way to Philly for Mcnabb...

 

Or so rumors have it.

 

Hey this might be a move to clear up some money and get a pick so we can have some ammo to go and get OJ Atogwe the FS from the Rams!!

 

[bowlingtwig]

Atogwe is on his way to Philly for Mcnabb...

 

Or so rumors have it.

Don't listen to the rumors because the same rumors have McNabb and Asante Samuel going to Oakland for Nnamdi. And the Eagles have said they want a top 42 pick for McNabb.

[azbearsfan]

I don't like this...

 

Brown isn't making that much money and he's been so consistent for so many years.

 

I think Zombie Sith just doesn't like that he speaks his mind and is one of the only ones in the locker room that tells the truth.

 

It'll be a sad day if they let Brown go. I have a feeling we'll get nothing for him and watch him succeed elsewhere.

 

 

 

Actually, I dont think this is a Lovie move at all as Brown is one of his guys. But being one of Lovie's guy doesn't hold much weight anymore (AP, McKie)

 

This has JA written all over it.

 

I'm fine with it. This is a guy who would make all of his money in two or three games a year getting multiple sacks and disappears in the rest. I'd rather see some young blood in there.

[nfoligno]

Actually, I dont think this is a Lovie move at all as Brown is one of his guys. But being one of Lovie's guy doesn't hold much weight anymore (AP, McKie)

 

This has JA written all over it.

 

Agreed. I think this has much more to do w/ Angelo than Lovie. I think money is likely the top factor here. If the "rumor" is legit, there is talk we could simply cut him if we do not find a trade partner. There is no way you can argue he would be released for any reason other than money. We are trying to save the coin his contract would otherwise call for. The one question I have is, are we tring to save that money to recover from the Peppers deal, or are we doing it w/ a plan of another addition.

 

I'm fine with it. This is a guy who would make all of his money in two or three games a year getting multiple sacks and disappears in the rest. I'd rather see some young blood in there.

 

I have argued that for years. Brown would have a few games each year where he would look unstopable. In those few games, he would register nearly all his sacks and big plays. The rest of the games, he would take those wide angles to the QB and easily be blocked out of the play.

 

At the same time, I would argue he is solid in all games against the run. And while his pass rush is inconsistent, I would also are that (a) it is still better than the rest of the DEs we have in depth and ( when the DTs do their job, even his wide rush angles are far more effective.

[madlithuanian]

Heard those too...

 

I just figure someone else out there will outbid us for Atogwe regardless.

 

Don't listen to the rumors because the same rumors have McNabb and Asante Samuel going to Oakland for Nnamdi. And the Eagles have said they want a top 42 pick for McNabb.

 

[madlithuanian]

I honestly do not know.

 

I just don't like it. I don't believe we'll get value. Especially with the cat let out of the bag...

 

And I don't like not having a proven end opposite Peppers.

 

Actually, I dont think this is a Lovie move at all as Brown is one of his guys. But being one of Lovie's guy doesn't hold much weight anymore (AP, McKie)

 

This has JA written all over it.

 

I'm fine with it. This is a guy who would make all of his money in two or three games a year getting multiple sacks and disappears in the rest. I'd rather see some young blood in there.

 

[Mongo3451]

Hey, I understand it also but why in the world would you go public and say that if you can't trade the guy that he is going to be released. By saying this you are telling every team this. How many teams do you think will make a trade with us knowing that he is going to be released? try 0. I am pissed at this move because of Biggsy reporting this. This is absolutely horrible. We need to be able to get something in return for him. What has Issy, Anderson and Gilbert done to make Brown expendable? Anderson had a great rookie year but we saw what happened when we made him the starter. Issy is very underrated but he is just now making the switch to DE, I don't have much faith in it at all to make Brown expendable. I got nothing against Gilbert at all since the coaching staff basically red shirted him last year. Lets also keep in mind this coaching staff's track record in drafting DE's. This horrible, unless we are able to get something for Brown.

Remember, they said he "could" be released. That doesn't mean he will be. I really don't envision them letting him go with nothing in return. If the goal is playoffs or bust, they are better off with him than without. I think Biggs threw a tad bit of "Chicken Little" in his story.

[madlithuanian]

Let's all shoot for a lottery win too!

 

Now your hoping that our coaching staff is willing to change things up in the middle of game when that haven't even showed the ability to change game plans during half time yet. That is alot of wishing.

 

[bowlingtwig]

Let's all shoot for a lottery win too!

No kidding

[nfoligno]

And I don't like not having a proven end opposite Peppers.

 

That is part of it for me. When you get a franchise player, you do what you have to do to support him. While not the same, replacing Brown w/ Idonije or Anderson is similar to adding Cutler, but not giving him a quality OL to work behind.

 

When you get a stud, you don't put him out there by himself. You support him. Our DL is lacking. Even w/ Peppers, the DL is questionable IMHO. We hope that we get the hyped up Peppers and that has a carry over effect on other positions, but based on recent history, that is a pretty big hope.

 

Anyway, I guess my point is, I do not understand upgrading our DL by adding Peppers, only to then downgrade it by getting rid of Brown. There may be some debate as to how good Brown is, but I just don't even see the argument that we have his equal among the depth chart.

[madlithuanian]

Exactly!

 

 

 

And I don't like not having a proven end opposite Peppers.

 

That is part of it for me. When you get a franchise player, you do what you have to do to support him. While not the same, replacing Brown w/ Idonije or Anderson is similar to adding Cutler, but not giving him a quality OL to work behind.

 

When you get a stud, you don't put him out there by himself. You support him. Our DL is lacking. Even w/ Peppers, the DL is questionable IMHO. We hope that we get the hyped up Peppers and that has a carry over effect on other positions, but based on recent history, that is a pretty big hope.

 

Anyway, I guess my point is, I do not understand upgrading our DL by adding Peppers, only to then downgrade it by getting rid of Brown. There may be some debate as to how good Brown is, but I just don't even see the argument that we have his equal among the depth chart.

 

[defiantgiant]

And I don't like not having a proven end opposite Peppers.

 

That is part of it for me. When you get a franchise player, you do what you have to do to support him. While not the same, replacing Brown w/ Idonije or Anderson is similar to adding Cutler, but not giving him a quality OL to work behind.

 

When you get a stud, you don't put him out there by himself. You support him. Our DL is lacking. Even w/ Peppers, the DL is questionable IMHO. We hope that we get the hyped up Peppers and that has a carry over effect on other positions, but based on recent history, that is a pretty big hope.

 

Anyway, I guess my point is, I do not understand upgrading our DL by adding Peppers, only to then downgrade it by getting rid of Brown. There may be some debate as to how good Brown is, but I just don't even see the argument that we have his equal among the depth chart.

Yeah, there's no way it isn't a downgrade on the defensive line to lose Brown. We just don't have anybody behind him who's better than he is. Idonije's a nice utility player, Anderson's a big disappointment and fairly one-dimensional, and nobody else on the roster has done a thing.

 

So since it's pretty clear that the d-line is worse without Brown, the only way I could consider trading or cutting him a good move is if it makes another position group better by the same amount. If we can trade him for a comparable player (steady, unspectacular, league-average-quality starter) at free safety, we need to get that deal done yesterday. I'm not talking about Atogwe, but maybe somebody more along the lines of a Donte Whitner? If we could send Brown for even an average starting-caliber FS, I'd call it a wash at worst. Even with all that's been said about Idonije and Mark Anderson, I'd way rather start one of them at DE than start Danieal Manning in the secondary.

 

Likewise, if cutting Brown freed up the cash necessary to sign a quality starter at FS, that would be OK, too. But unless they can offset the loss of Brown with a comparable gain elsewhere, they need to hang onto him.

[nfoligno]

I have seen others mention using this move to help the FS position, whether due to trade or the cash angle.

 

Honestly, I am still not for the move. Look, I have no argument on how weak our FS position is. At the same time, I simply question how any of our DBs are going to look if we can not get a damn pass rush going.

 

Lets say we as a quality FS, but at the same time, we see a significant loss on the DL in Brown. It isn't just pass rush either. I remember how bad Anderson was against the run when he started. The problems on the DL create a far greater ripple effect than if we have a hole at FS.

 

It really feels wierd sticking up for Brown. Frankly, he has been a fan favorite for years and I have talked aften about how over-rated he was. I still don't think he is too much more than average, but I think he is significantly better than what else we have.

 

For me, and maybe this is too simplistic, but I just can not understand the idea of upgrading by downgrading. Why can't we simply upgrade our FS position w/o having to first downgrade the DE position. Why can't we upgrade with the addition of Peppers, w/o at the same time downgrading elsewhere along the DL.

 

Yeah, there's no way it isn't a downgrade on the defensive line to lose Brown. We just don't have anybody behind him who's better than he is. Idonije's a nice utility player, Anderson's a big disappointment and fairly one-dimensional, and nobody else on the roster has done a thing.

 

So since it's pretty clear that the d-line is worse without Brown, the only way I could consider trading or cutting him a good move is if it makes another position group better by the same amount. If we can trade him for a comparable player (steady, unspectacular, league-average-quality starter) at free safety, we need to get that deal done yesterday. I'm not talking about Atogwe, but maybe somebody more along the lines of a Donte Whitner? If we could send Brown for even an average starting-caliber FS, I'd call it a wash at worst. Even with all that's been said about Idonije and Mark Anderson, I'd way rather start one of them at DE than start Danieal Manning in the secondary.

 

Likewise, if cutting Brown freed up the cash necessary to sign a quality starter at FS, that would be OK, too. But unless they can offset the loss of Brown with a comparable gain elsewhere, they need to hang onto him.