What bothers me is

[Stinger226]

What bothers me about these decision makers is the lack of a plan to address needs. I will give them they went out and addressed DE, but still have questions at FS and OL. and if you wish to buy into it, still need help at WR. Someone like Philly will drop players, sign people, make trades, and address there needs in the draft anyway they need to. You can right or wrong, at least see a plan with what they are doing. I wish I could figure out what our leaders are doing, they have did some nice things over the last two years, but fall short with to many bad decisions. They keep repeating moves to make up for past mistakes. As much as no matter what I want the team to succeed, I want Lovie and Jerry gone, and dont know how both can happen at the same time.

[Guest TerraTor]

What bothers me about these decision makers is the lack of a plan to address needs. I will give them they went out and addressed DE, but still have questions at FS and OL. and if you wish to buy into it, still need help at WR. Someone like Philly will drop players, sign people, make trades, and address there needs in the draft anyway they need to. You can right or wrong, at least see a plan with what they are doing. I wish I could figure out what our leaders are doing, they have did some nice things over the last two years, but fall short with to many bad decisions. They keep repeating moves to make up for past mistakes. As much as no matter what I want the team to succeed, I want Lovie and Jerry gone, and dont know how both can happen at the same time.

 

 

Philly traded the best QB in their history, not sure of what kinda plan that is. To a division rival none the less.

 

But i cant argue with ur statement, where the hell is the team heading? So worried about Olsen fitting into Martz outdated offense and yet dont seem to care about how horrid the Oline is and we dont have a starting caliber S on the team. Thats sad

[Stinger226]

Philly traded the best QB in their history, not sure of what kinda plan that is. To a division rival none the less.

 

But i cant argue with ur statement, where the hell is the team heading? So worried about Olsen fitting into Martz outdated offense and yet dont seem to care about how horrid the Oline is and we dont have a starting caliber S on the team. Thats sad

I think trading one of the top QBs in the league while you can still get valve for him, isnt a bad decision. They have there qb of the future and at some point in time, you have to turn it over to him. I thought GB was stupid for letting Farve walk, but it turned out to be the right decision. To a divisional rival seemed pretty dumb, but time will tell.

[bradjock]

What bothers me about these decision makers is the lack of a plan to address needs. I will give them they went out and addressed DE, but still have questions at FS and OL.

 

Manamaleuna is a great upgrade to the o-line. I still think we'll find a veteran guard to add. We seem content to upgrade FS via the draft. In other words, we ain't done.

 

if you wish to buy into it, still need help at WR.

 

Maybe, but I don't think Mike Martz thinks that way. We had a lot of money to spend. His 2 greatest needs were RB & TE, two positions we're pretty solid at.

 

Someone like Philly will drop players, sign people, make trades, and address there needs in the draft anyway they need to. You can right or wrong, at least see a plan with what they are doing.

 

Last year JA stated he wanted to fix the QB position. Done. He's said all along, the defense is predicated on the line. Obviously, getting a pass rush was more important then getting a safety. While it would be nice to go out and buy everyone, we do have a budget.

 

I wish I could figure out what our leaders are doing, they have did some nice things over the last two years, but fall short with to many bad decisions. They keep repeating moves to make up for past mistakes. As much as no matter what I want the team to succeed, I want Lovie and Jerry gone, and dont know how both can happen at the same time.

 

Every team makes mistakes. Last year at this time we were singing praises to Angelo. This year we're singing a different tune. The team is much better. If we stay healthy and the Martz offense is as good as I think it will be, we'll win the North.

[nfoligno]

duplicate

[nfoligno]

Yea, I think it comes down to this. Last year and this year we addresses two of our biggest needs in such a big manner that we essentially "blew out wad" in doing so. After getting Peppers, there just wasn't a ton left to work with. Yet at the same time, we did add a RB (no question a need) and while TE is was not a need, he was essentially another OL which was.

 

IMHO, we entered this offseason simply with so many needs, there was no way we were going to addressed them all.

 

Plenty of bashing of Angelo over the years, and that is a key reason why we were in the situation we were in the last couple. But IMHO, some thought a little too high of this team's talent the last couple years. We had needs across the board, and when you have that many needs, you simply can't address them all. I would argue we have addressed needs a lot over the last two years (though those moves didn't necessarily always work out [Pace/Omiyale]).

 

What I don't really get is why it took so long to see the sort of moves/plan/prioritizing that we have seen in the last two years.

 

What bothers me about these decision makers is the lack of a plan to address needs. I will give them they went out and addressed DE, but still have questions at FS and OL.

 

Manamaleuna is a great upgrade to the o-line. I still think we'll find a veteran guard to add. We seem content to upgrade FS via the draft. In other words, we ain't done.

 

if you wish to buy into it, still need help at WR.

 

Maybe, but I don't think Mike Martz thinks that way. We had a lot of money to spend. His 2 greatest needs were RB & TE, two positions we're pretty solid at.

 

Someone like Philly will drop players, sign people, make trades, and address there needs in the draft anyway they need to. You can right or wrong, at least see a plan with what they are doing.

 

Last year JA stated he wanted to fix the QB position. Done. He's said all along, the defense is predicated on the line. Obviously, getting a pass rush was more important then getting a safety. While it would be nice to go out and buy everyone, we do have a budget.

 

I wish I could figure out what our leaders are doing, they have did some nice things over the last two years, but fall short with to many bad decisions. They keep repeating moves to make up for past mistakes. As much as no matter what I want the team to succeed, I want Lovie and Jerry gone, and dont know how both can happen at the same time.

 

Every team makes mistakes. Last year at this time we were singing praises to Angelo. This year we're singing a different tune. The team is much better. If we stay healthy and the Martz offense is as good as I think it will be, we'll win the North.

 

[bradjock]

Yea, I think it comes down to this. Last year and this year we addresses two of our biggest needs in such a big manner that we essentially "blew out wad" in doing so. After getting Peppers, there just wasn't a ton left to work with.

 

Agreed. I do find it amusing that no matter what a team does, some feel it's never enough.

 

Yet at the same time, we did add a RB (no question a need) and while TE is was not a need, he was essentially another OL which was.

 

While RB was a need, I figured we'd up grade on the cheap while hoping Matt Forte returns to his rookie form. We could have signed a veteran for lots less, talked up how we believe in Wolfe & Bell, and drafted a guy. The need for a RB didn't appear to be great prior to FA.

 

IMHO, we entered this offseason simply with so many needs, there was no way we were going to addressed them all.

 

Every team says that every year. No matter how good you are, there's always room to get better.

 

Plenty of bashing of Angelo over the years, and that is a key reason why we were in the situation we were in the last couple. But IMHO, some thought a little too high of this team's talent the last couple years. We had needs across the board, and when you have that many needs, you simply can't address them all. I would argue we have addressed needs a lot over the last two years (though those moves didn't necessarily always work out [Pace/Omiyale]).

 

Most praised the Pace signing. I did. I figured he had a year or two left. Omiyale might still find his place.

 

What I don't really get is why it took so long to see the sort of moves/plan/prioritizing that we have seen in the last two years.

 

The difference is the sense of urgency. JA has always operated under the idea of building for the future. Whether it's the pressure to win or the realization that he's almost 60 and doesn't want to do this forever, we've switched to "win-now" mode. It could also be that our defense has gotten old very fast, and the window for success may be closing.

 

 

[nfoligno]

Agreed. I do find it amusing that no matter what a team does, some feel it's never enough.

 

I guess its perspective. Take this year for example. There are some who believe WR is a top priority, while others do not feel it is even a need. A person who believes WR is a top priority are going to feel we didn't do enough.

 

While RB was a need, I figured we'd up grade on the cheap while hoping Matt Forte returns to his rookie form. We could have signed a veteran for lots less, talked up how we believe in Wolfe & Bell, and drafted a guy. The need for a RB didn't appear to be great prior to FA.

 

See above. Some would have argued RB was a big need. Forte did well as a rookie, but was pretty bad last year. Further, there are the rumors that our staff isn't happy with his work ethic, or whatever. At the end of the day, I think most believed it was a need on some level.

 

Most praised the Pace signing. I did. I figured he had a year or two left. Omiyale might still find his place.

 

Maybe most, not all. I sure never liked it. Regardless though. I didn't like it, yet at the same time, the staff did finally recognize OL as a need and tried to do something about it.

 

The difference is the sense of urgency. JA has always operated under the idea of building for the future. Whether it's the pressure to win or the realization that he's almost 60 and doesn't want to do this forever, we've switched to "win-now" mode. It could also be that our defense has gotten old very fast, and the window for success may be closing.

 

Yea, for the most part, I agree. Angelo has always been drafting all these projects for the future, while doing little to add immediate contributions. Now, I think he knows he is on thin ice and needs to win now.

 

 

[AZ54]

Still unclear is how much influence Lovie has had over personnel decisions since the Superbowl. We know he got a contract that gave him much more influence than he had prior to the Superbowl but who were his "guys". In the last two offseasons as Lovie has faded in reputation our front office has made more bold moves. Sure JA is on the hotseat and deservedly so but I don't think the inevitable offseason personnel discussion can be done without weighing Lovie's influence and/or spreading the accountability to him as well.

 

Just a couple examples: Wasn't it Lovie who Kept Booker at the expense of developing Bennett even when Booker looked horrible during the preseason? I know Bennett had to learn all three WR positions but that's something Booker wasn't required to do. It was Lovie who promoted his BFF Babich to DC which was an absolutely complete failure.

[nfoligno]

Always part of the equation, but usually coaches are looking at immediate impact players. It isn't often a coach is begging the GM to draft a kid who is a project and who may not be ready to contribute for a few years.

 

I have no doubt Lovie had big influence in additions like Pace or Archuleta. At the same time, I just question how great his influence was overall. Sure, there is no question his authority w/ regard to the coaching staff hit ultimate levels after the SB, but when it comes to who we draft, I just don't know that Lovie had the influence some believe.

 

As for Booker, I still think that was Turner. Ultimately, the HC is in charge, but in reality, our HC allows the OC to run the offense. It was Turner who choose how to develop Bennett, and in doing so, put too much on the kid initially. And it was Turner who continued to play Booker, despite his absolute pathetic play. You can blame Lovie for not taking more control, but the true culprit IMHO on this issue was Turner.

 

Still unclear is how much influence Lovie has had over personnel decisions since the Superbowl. We know he got a contract that gave him much more influence than he had prior to the Superbowl but who were his "guys". In the last two offseasons as Lovie has faded in reputation our front office has made more bold moves. Sure JA is on the hotseat and deservedly so but I don't think the inevitable offseason personnel discussion can be done without weighing Lovie's influence and/or spreading the accountability to him as well.

 

Just a couple examples: Wasn't it Lovie who Kept Booker at the expense of developing Bennett even when Booker looked horrible during the preseason? I know Bennett had to learn all three WR positions but that's something Booker wasn't required to do. It was Lovie who promoted his BFF Babich to DC which was an absolutely complete failure.

 

[madlithuanian]

Don't blame Turner for that. Smith tells Turner what to do. Turner was no Buddy Ryan. Turner was an idiot, and Smith let him be one. Both are responsible, and I say Smith even moreso because he had the power to change an obvious problem. Turner, one could argue, coudln't see the forrest from the trees. Smith is paid to be the one that sees the forrest. But it appears he cant' see that when he's too busy staring blankly at the sky...

 

 

 

As for Booker, I still think that was Turner. Ultimately, the HC is in charge, but in reality, our HC allows the OC to run the offense. It was Turner who choose how to develop Bennett, and in doing so, put too much on the kid initially. And it was Turner who continued to play Booker, despite his absolute pathetic play. You can blame Lovie for not taking more control, but the true culprit IMHO on this issue was Turner.

 

[AZ54]

It's nice when the newspaper comes to the rescue. It appears Lovie has been fairly influential on draft day.

 

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...mully19.article

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Manning -- a second-round pick (42nd overall) in 2006 out of tiny Abilene Christian and the first player from a non-Division I school taken that year -- is what NFL scouts call a ''trait player.'' He's a phenomenal athlete. Smith has said it would be between him, Devin Hester and Johnny Knox in a race to determine the fastest player on the team. Manning came to the Bears raw and has barely improved since his rookie year as a starter because he has been moved in and out at safety so many times. First he's a safety, then a cornerback or nickelback, then back to safety and back to nickel, then back to safety ... you get the idea.

 

Insiders say Smith's obsession with the traits has been a hindrance. He has to be really sold on a player who doesn't have elite athletic ability. Smith, who was a linebackers coach with the Buccaneers, holds a lot of sway over what the Bears do at that position -- and they don't do well. Since the Angelo-Smith partnership started, the Bears have taken a linebacker every year. Leon Joe (fourth-rounder, 2004), Michael Okwo (third, 2007) and Marcus Freeman (fifth, 2009) were flat-out busts. Rod Wilson ('05) and Joey LaRocque ('08) were seventh-round picks who didn't really have careers, but can a seventh-round pick be a bust? Sometimes trait guys lack football instincts. Jamar Williams, a fourth-rounder in 2006, remains with the Bears and is a solid backup and special-teams player."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Mongo3451]

It's nice when the newspaper comes to the rescue. It appears Lovie has been fairly influential on draft day.

 

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...mully19.article

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Manning -- a second-round pick (42nd overall) in 2006 out of tiny Abilene Christian and the first player from a non-Division I school taken that year -- is what NFL scouts call a ''trait player.'' He's a phenomenal athlete. Smith has said it would be between him, Devin Hester and Johnny Knox in a race to determine the fastest player on the team. Manning came to the Bears raw and has barely improved since his rookie year as a starter because he has been moved in and out at safety so many times. First he's a safety, then a cornerback or nickelback, then back to safety and back to nickel, then back to safety ... you get the idea.

 

Insiders say Smith's obsession with the traits has been a hindrance. He has to be really sold on a player who doesn't have elite athletic ability. Smith, who was a linebackers coach with the Buccaneers, holds a lot of sway over what the Bears do at that position -- and they don't do well. Since the Angelo-Smith partnership started, the Bears have taken a linebacker every year. Leon Joe (fourth-rounder, 2004), Michael Okwo (third, 2007) and Marcus Freeman (fifth, 2009) were flat-out busts. Rod Wilson ('05) and Joey LaRocque ('08) were seventh-round picks who didn't really have careers, but can a seventh-round pick be a bust? Sometimes trait guys lack football instincts. Jamar Williams, a fourth-rounder in 2006, remains with the Bears and is a solid backup and special-teams player."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Man, I read that yesterday and decided not to post on it because it really pissed me off. I've always had the impression that Lovie has been in love with "men in shorts". At some point, we have to have "football players". You don't see Bill Polian drafting players and trying to turn them into something else. He drafts a safety to play safety and a tackle to play tackle. I use Polian as an example because he's drafting the same type of defenders we are. If you look at who he's had to replace over the last 5 years, it would blow your mind. Angelo is equally as guilty in this, the buck stops with him. I actually think they are co-enablers to each other. Isn't one of Lovies famous idiot quotes, "we'll have to see what happens once the pads come on"??? Men in shorts, sheesh!

[Lucky Luciano]

Don't blame Turner for that. Smith tells Turner what to do. Turner was no Buddy Ryan. Turner was an idiot, and Smith let him be one. Both are responsible, and I say Smith even moreso because he had the power to change an obvious problem. Turner, one could argue, coudln't see the forrest from the trees. Smith is paid to be the one that sees the forrest. But it appears he cant' see that when he's too busy staring blankly at the sky...

 

this is what our glorious GM has drafted in his tenure in chicago:

 

3 QB's - rds 1, 4, and 5

10 OL - 2 OT's rd 1, 2 OT's rd 7;

1 OG rd 3, 1 OG rd 4, 1 OG rd 6, 3 OG rd 7

3 RB's - rds 1,2,3

1 FB - rd 6

11 WR's - 2 rd 2, 3 rd 3, 4 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7

3 TE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6

 

7 DE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3. 2 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 7

6 DT's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 2 rd 3, 1 rd 4, 1 rd 5

8 LB's - 2 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7

15 DB's -

7 S's - 1 rd 2, 2 rd 4, 2 rd 5, 2 rd 6

8 CB's - 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 2 rd 5, 2 rd 7

 

1st round: he has traded out of or down in 50% of his entire round 1 drafts. he has picked 2 no-brainer picks in this round. one being tommy harris who along with vince wilfork (NE) were the first defensive linemen picked that year and greg olson who dropped to our slot. olsen is now regarded as not even worth the pick we made on him. that leaves one potential head case, tommy harris, as a starter along with an unknown in chris harris in nine freakin years.

 

2nd round: we traded out of this round once and over NINE years we have a #2 CB in tillman as a quality 2nd tier starter and he was picked SEVEN years ago.

 

3rd round: we have made 11 picks in this round and have given up one pick in 2005. we have ONE quality starter in briggs who was drafted SEVEN years ago.

 

that record accumulated by angelo is not just pathetic it is criminal. first day picks are the meat and bone of your franchise and our bones are being picked over by vultures. if smith has had anything to do with our drafts it compounds HIS complete incompetence and makes keeping him on even more ludicrous if that is humanly possible.

 

[madlithuanian]

It is truly abysmal...

 

this is what our glorious GM has drafted in his tenure in chicago:

 

3 QB's - rds 1, 4, and 5

10 OL - 2 OT's rd 1, 2 OT's rd 7;

1 OG rd 3, 1 OG rd 4, 1 OG rd 6, 3 OG rd 7

3 RB's - rds 1,2,3

1 FB - rd 6

11 WR's - 2 rd 2, 3 rd 3, 4 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7

3 TE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6

 

7 DE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3. 2 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 7

6 DT's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 2 rd 3, 1 rd 4, 1 rd 5

8 LB's - 2 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7

15 DB's -

7 S's - 1 rd 2, 2 rd 4, 2 rd 5, 2 rd 6

8 CB's - 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 2 rd 5, 2 rd 7

 

1st round: he has traded out of or down in 50% of his entire round 1 drafts. he has picked 2 no-brainer picks in this round. one being tommy harris who along with vince wilfork (NE) were the first defensive linemen picked that year and greg olson who dropped to our slot. olsen is now regarded as not even worth the pick we made on him. that leaves one potential head case, tommy harris, as a starter along with an unknown in chris harris in nine freakin years.

 

2nd round: we traded out of this round once and over NINE years we have a #2 CB in tillman as a quality 2nd tier starter and he was picked SEVEN years ago.

 

3rd round: we have made 11 picks in this round and have given up one pick in 2005. we have ONE quality starter in briggs who was drafted SEVEN years ago.

 

that record accumulated by angelo is not just pathetic it is criminal. first day picks are the meat and bone of your franchise and our bones are being picked over by vultures. if smith has had anything to do with our drafts it compounds HIS complete incompetence and makes keeping him on even more ludicrous if that is humanly possible.

 

[madlithuanian]

Just as I would have suspected...

 

Smith needs to be gone before this franchise can move truly forward. I eagerly await his inevitible dismissal.

 

It's nice when the newspaper comes to the rescue. It appears Lovie has been fairly influential on draft day.

 

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...mully19.article

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Manning -- a second-round pick (42nd overall) in 2006 out of tiny Abilene Christian and the first player from a non-Division I school taken that year -- is what NFL scouts call a ''trait player.'' He's a phenomenal athlete. Smith has said it would be between him, Devin Hester and Johnny Knox in a race to determine the fastest player on the team. Manning came to the Bears raw and has barely improved since his rookie year as a starter because he has been moved in and out at safety so many times. First he's a safety, then a cornerback or nickelback, then back to safety and back to nickel, then back to safety ... you get the idea.

 

Insiders say Smith's obsession with the traits has been a hindrance. He has to be really sold on a player who doesn't have elite athletic ability. Smith, who was a linebackers coach with the Buccaneers, holds a lot of sway over what the Bears do at that position -- and they don't do well. Since the Angelo-Smith partnership started, the Bears have taken a linebacker every year. Leon Joe (fourth-rounder, 2004), Michael Okwo (third, 2007) and Marcus Freeman (fifth, 2009) were flat-out busts. Rod Wilson ('05) and Joey LaRocque ('08) were seventh-round picks who didn't really have careers, but can a seventh-round pick be a bust? Sometimes trait guys lack football instincts. Jamar Williams, a fourth-rounder in 2006, remains with the Bears and is a solid backup and special-teams player."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Mongo3451]

What bothers me the most is that we only have 25 Angelo drafted players on the team. I am a big advocate of building your team via the draft. Does anyone have any stats on what the norm is for winning programs? I would think at least 35.

[madlithuanian]

Exactly! This isn't "A Chorus Line", it's a freaking football team dammit!

 

F you Smith! And your little dog, Angelo, too!

 

You said it Mongo! Enablers! Freakin' emarassing...

 

 

 

 

Man, I read that yesterday and decided not to post on it because it really pissed me off. I've always had the impression that Lovie has been in love with "men in shorts". At some point, we have to have "football players". You don't see Bill Polian drafting players and trying to turn them into something else. He drafts a safety to play safety and a tackle to play tackle. I use Polian as an example because he's drafting the same type of defenders we are. If you look at who he's had to replace over the last 5 years, it would blow your mind. Angelo is equally as guilty in this, the buck stops with him. I actually think they are co-enablers to each other. Isn't one of Lovies famous idiot quotes, "we'll have to see what happens once the pads come on"??? Men in shorts, sheesh!

 

[nfoligno]

Disagree. Many reports have talked about how our OC is similar to a HC2. Maybe not to the level of Buddy/Ditka, but similar just the same.

 

Lovie has no experience on the offensive side of the ball, and I am not sure I have ever heard a report of Lovie really meddling in the offense. Now, you can criticize him for that, but IMHO, the fact remains the decisions on offense were still on the OC.

 

Don't blame Turner for that. Smith tells Turner what to do. Turner was no Buddy Ryan. Turner was an idiot, and Smith let him be one. Both are responsible, and I say Smith even moreso because he had the power to change an obvious problem. Turner, one could argue, coudln't see the forrest from the trees. Smith is paid to be the one that sees the forrest. But it appears he cant' see that when he's too busy staring blankly at the sky...

 

[nfoligno]

While I have no doubt Lovie loves the way a player looks in shorts, at the same time, I think the same can be said of Angelo.

 

Look at Angelo's first draft, well prior to Lovie. He took Roe Williams in the 2nd round, and he would absolutely fit the "traits" player that lacked football creds. Angelo, IMHO, often took the athletes over the football players prior to Smith joining the team. In fact, I remember that being an issue between he and Jauron. Jauron wanted players who were football players that fit his scheme, while Angelo balked and preferred the athletes, regardless of system fit.

 

IMHO, more than just Lovie getting more power, I think a key was the SB run. IMHO, Angelo (and Lovie) had a false sense of how good the team and players were, and both felt they could afford to draft more developmental athletes thinking we had fewer holes. Then two things happened. One, that team was exposes as having more holes than the staff believed and two, many of those "athletes" were busts, and thus the number of holes became greater as the replacements were duds and we saw little to no transition.

 

It's nice when the newspaper comes to the rescue. It appears Lovie has been fairly influential on draft day.

 

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...mully19.article

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Manning -- a second-round pick (42nd overall) in 2006 out of tiny Abilene Christian and the first player from a non-Division I school taken that year -- is what NFL scouts call a ''trait player.'' He's a phenomenal athlete. Smith has said it would be between him, Devin Hester and Johnny Knox in a race to determine the fastest player on the team. Manning came to the Bears raw and has barely improved since his rookie year as a starter because he has been moved in and out at safety so many times. First he's a safety, then a cornerback or nickelback, then back to safety and back to nickel, then back to safety ... you get the idea.

 

Insiders say Smith's obsession with the traits has been a hindrance. He has to be really sold on a player who doesn't have elite athletic ability. Smith, who was a linebackers coach with the Buccaneers, holds a lot of sway over what the Bears do at that position -- and they don't do well. Since the Angelo-Smith partnership started, the Bears have taken a linebacker every year. Leon Joe (fourth-rounder, 2004), Michael Okwo (third, 2007) and Marcus Freeman (fifth, 2009) were flat-out busts. Rod Wilson ('05) and Joey LaRocque ('08) were seventh-round picks who didn't really have careers, but can a seventh-round pick be a bust? Sometimes trait guys lack football instincts. Jamar Williams, a fourth-rounder in 2006, remains with the Bears and is a solid backup and special-teams player."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[madlithuanian]

Can you point me to a report that states that? I've never once read where Turner had even remotely what Ryan and Ditka had... Just because Smith let him do what he wanted because he didn't know jack about O is not the same.

 

...and while decisions made by the OC were by the OC, the HC could have stepped in at any point to stop the bleeding.

 

 

 

 

Disagree. Many reports have talked about how our OC is similar to a HC2. Maybe not to the level of Buddy/Ditka, but similar just the same.

 

Lovie has no experience on the offensive side of the ball, and I am not sure I have ever heard a report of Lovie really meddling in the offense. Now, you can criticize him for that, but IMHO, the fact remains the decisions on offense were still on the OC.

 

[nfoligno]

I think we agree on what the situation was, but I have not communicated that well.

 

I am not saying Turner had some level of power written into his agreement or anything like that. I am saying, due to the manner in which Lovie runs the team, the OC has control of the offense. I do not think Lovie was involved in a lot of game planning. I don't think Lovie was telling Turner to run this play or that play on game day. I don't think Lovie was telling Turner who should start, or who should play. Lovie empowered the OC in such a way.

 

Recently, prior to hiring Martz, there were many articles talking about why an OC might like the job, and this was a key factor. It was the opposite situation as with our DC. There, any potential coach who can in to be the DC would do so knowing they would have a very hands on HC, where as the OC would know he had a very hands off HC.

 

Whether or not Lovie should manage this way is another story. I am simply talking about the way it was, not the way it should be. When Bennett sits for basically his rookie season, that is a Turner call, not a Lovie call.

 

Can you point me to a report that states that? I've never once read where Turner had even remotely what Ryan and Ditka had... Just because Smith let him do what he wanted because he didn't know jack about O is not the same.

 

...and while decisions made by the OC were by the OC, the HC could have stepped in at any point to stop the bleeding.

 

[madlithuanian]

I follow. No one was lining up to be either coordinator. Because they knew the team is run by jackasses (no disrespect to hard working mules...). We settled. On both counts.

 

But I do still somewhat disagree. When Bennett sits the entire season, that's on both of them at minimum.

 

If Smith cannot handle simple oversight, then he is unfit to be a HC. If Angelo can't handle simple oversight, then he is unfit to be a GM. If Teddy-boy can't handle simple oversight, then he is unfit to be Pres..

 

We have 3 powerful people who are unfit for their jobs.

 

 

 

 

 

I think we agree on what the situation was, but I have not communicated that well.

 

I am not saying Turner had some level of power written into his agreement or anything like that. I am saying, due to the manner in which Lovie runs the team, the OC has control of the offense. I do not think Lovie was involved in a lot of game planning. I don't think Lovie was telling Turner to run this play or that play on game day. I don't think Lovie was telling Turner who should start, or who should play. Lovie empowered the OC in such a way.

 

Recently, prior to hiring Martz, there were many articles talking about why an OC might like the job, and this was a key factor. It was the opposite situation as with our DC. There, any potential coach who can in to be the DC would do so knowing they would have a very hands on HC, where as the OC would know he had a very hands off HC.

 

Whether or not Lovie should manage this way is another story. I am simply talking about the way it was, not the way it should be. When Bennett sits for basically his rookie season, that is a Turner call, not a Lovie call.

 

[madlithuanian]

Well put...

 

IMHO, more than just Lovie getting more power, I think a key was the SB run. IMHO, Angelo (and Lovie) had a false sense of how good the team and players were, and both felt they could afford to draft more developmental athletes thinking we had fewer holes. Then two things happened. One, that team was exposes as having more holes than the staff believed and two, many of those "athletes" were busts, and thus the number of holes became greater as the replacements were duds and we saw little to no transition.

 

[Lucky Luciano]

I follow. No one was lining up to be either coordinator. Because they knew the team is run by jackasses (no disrespect to hard working mules...). We settled. On both counts.

 

But I do still somewhat disagree. When Bennett sits the entire season, that's on both of them at minimum.

 

If Smith cannot handle simple oversight, then he is unfit to be a HC. If Angelo can't handle simple oversight, then he is unfit to be a GM. If Teddy-boy can't handle simple oversight, then he is unfit to be Pres..

 

We have 3 powerful people who are unfit for their jobs.

 

i agree. whether a head coach is offensively or defensively minded is of no consequence. good ones are able to work with their coordinators on both sides of the ball and give input especially if the problems are as plain as the nose on your face. even if they have little to do with the intricate parts of a game plan they have to have a grasp of the overall picture and if one aspect of your teams play is continually bad you have to know enough to do something about it.

 

for lovie to have no input on offense because it is not his forte' is ridiculous. does not a defensive guru/coordinator not understand how an offense at least generally works in order to implement a successful defensive scheme week to week? if things are not working it is his duty to find out why and correct the problem if possible working with his GM. if the coaching staff is lacking to find another or bring in players that will make the system work.