So how about that Big Ben suspension?

[nfoligno]

Before anyone gets their panties in a wad, I would point out this involves the personnal conduct policy, which the bears have come up against before, and could one day again, and thus can be argued this is Bears related.

 

There will be those who say if Ben isn't convicted (or even charged) Goodell should not do anything, but I disagree. Especially in a criminal case like rape, it is very difficult to prove guilt. Look at past cases that hit public like this, and often the victim becomes the accuses. She is called a whore or whatever. Anyway, it isn't unusual for a case like this not to make it to court due to how difficult it is to prove.

 

With that said, there seems to be a lot of evidence and testimony against Ben. Further, this is the 2nd allegation of a similar nature against him, which doesn't help.

 

From what I have read, it doesn't seem contested that

 

(a) Ben was paying for drinks for under age girls.

( The girl in question was drunk

© Ben had sex with her in a public place.

 

It is in question whether that sex was consented, but I don't know if that matters (for the purpose of this discussion). Providing alcohol to an under-age girl is illegal. Having sex, consentual or not, with a drunk girl is against the law. Sex in public is against the law.

 

There are plenty of questions which will never be known due to the he said/she said nature, but regardless of that, there seemed to be plenty to level a hard suspension at Ben. Further, I have yet to hear that Ben is fighting the suspension. If Ben was so innocent, and all allegations were bogus, would Ben so easily accept this punishment?

[Connorbear]

He's a drillrod and deserved what he got.

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

X takes a square!

 

I completely agree...

 

 

 

He's a drillrod and deserved what he got.

 

Peace

 

['TD']

j

[killakrzydav]

He should have gotten a year at least. IMHO, besides murder, there is no worse crime than rape. I believe he got off very easy given the facts against him. Lil bumfuck DA should at least have tried to prosecute him given the facts of the case. PPL have been charged w/ rape w/ far less evidence.

[Mongo3451]

He should have gotten a year at least. IMHO, besides murder, there is no worse crime than rape. I believe he got off very easy given the facts against him. Lil bumfuck DA should at least have tried to prosecute him given the facts of the case. PPL have been charged w/ rape w/ far less evidence.

Totally agree. I was on a jury where they had less evidence. We were told all we had to do to convict was believe the testimony of the victim. We unfortunately did not convict due to conflicting jurors. But, after the case was over, the judge summoned us to a private meeting with the defense atty and prosecutor and asked how we came to our conclusion. The prosecutor made notes of his failure, re-tried the bastard and he got 90 years. If you or I was Big Ben, we'd be in the slammer.

[defiantgiant]

Before this, I've generally had a problem with Goodell suspending players before they've been charged with a crime or convicted. I know it's allowed in the league bylaws, but in general, I'd like to see Goodell be a little more hesitant about disciplining players who haven't had their day in court. You look at cases like Cedric Benson's, where everybody was worried he'd get suspended, but all the charges ended up being dropped (mostly due to some very questionable police tactics.) In general, I think the league ought to wait for the criminal justice process to play out.

 

But in Ben's case, though, I'm 100% in favor of the league getting involved even without a conviction. Even though Ben's never going to have a trial to determine what he's guilty of, if you just look at the facts that neither side disputed, they demonstrate completely despicable behavior on his part. The undisputed stuff alone justifies a major suspension for Roethlisberger, and I think Goodell's totally right to hand it down.

[nfoligno]

I hear you on the idea of Goodell waiting, but has there been an occasion when he has suspended a player who was later shown to be innocent? I ask because, while he does for some players hand down suspensions before any legal issues are resolved, it seems like there is always additional reasons/factors involved.

 

Goodell seems to have a team of investigators going over the details of each incident. Further, I believe he personally has a sit down w/ the player before any action is taken. For some players though, I think Goodell believes in his mind that regardless of how the police/da move forward, the NFL can't simply turn a blind eye. I think there is also a level of knowing the reality of the legal system. If you are rich, you can often get off. Some of these small town DAs will avoid charges because, and this is sad, but they can't afford to try a player/person who has high dollar attorneys that can extend a case for years.

 

At the end of the day, I just can't really think of a situation where Goodell came down on a player who was later shown to be free and clear, not just of the charges, but of the allegations as a whole.

 

Before this, I've generally had a problem with Goodell suspending players before they've been charged with a crime or convicted. I know it's allowed in the league bylaws, but in general, I'd like to see Goodell be a little more hesitant about disciplining players who haven't had their day in court. You look at cases like Cedric Benson's, where everybody was worried he'd get suspended, but all the charges ended up being dropped (mostly due to some very questionable police tactics.) In general, I think the league ought to wait for the criminal justice process to play out.

 

But in Ben's case, though, I'm 100% in favor of the league getting involved even without a conviction. Even though Ben's never going to have a trial to determine what he's guilty of, if you just look at the facts that neither side disputed, they demonstrate completely despicable behavior on his part. The undisputed stuff alone justifies a major suspension for Roethlisberger, and I think Goodell's totally right to hand it down.

 

[bradjock]

I hear you on the idea of Goodell waiting, but has there been an occasion when he has suspended a player who was later shown to be innocent? I ask because, while he does for some players hand down suspensions before any legal issues are resolved, it seems like there is always additional reasons/factors involved.

 

Goodell seems to have a team of investigators going over the details of each incident. Further, I believe he personally has a sit down w/ the player before any action is taken. For some players though, I think Goodell believes in his mind that regardless of how the police/da move forward, the NFL can't simply turn a blind eye. I think there is also a level of knowing the reality of the legal system. If you are rich, you can often get off. Some of these small town DAs will avoid charges because, and this is sad, but they can't afford to try a player/person who has high dollar attorneys that can extend a case for years.

 

At the end of the day, I just can't really think of a situation where Goodell came down on a player who was later shown to be free and clear, not just of the charges, but of the allegations as a whole.

 

Guilt has nothing to do with it. Big Ben's bad publicity made himself, the team, and the league look real bad. Roger Goodell's #1 priority is to protect the product.

[nfoligno]

No argument. My point was not specific to Ben, but to the prior statement that Goodell tends to jump ahead of the legal system. Defiant said he agreed w/ Goodell this time, but wasn't as on board with other times Goodell acts before the legal system can play out. I was talking more in general as to that point than specific to Ben.

 

Guilt has nothing to do with it. Big Ben's bad publicity made himself, the team, and the league look real bad. Roger Goodell's #1 priority is to protect the product.

 

[jason]

1) Big Ben, and others, face the Goodell hammer because they bring negative attention to the NFL. Period.

 

2) Guilty of crimes or not, Roethlisberger made stupid decisions, and that's why he has the negative attention (See #1).

 

I happen to believe that Big Ben did nothing wrong (other than stupid decision making - he should videotape every woman he plans on getting involved with BEFORE they make physical contact). The first case was proven to be a man-trap situation, and it was thrown out before it got to court. The second, most recent case is, IMHO, the same as the other. It is no surprise to me that the case has been dismissed, and the woman wanted to stop the prosecution process...oh, yeah, because it's too "intrusive." I read that as "has no evidence," and she doesn't want to turn into another Tawanna Brawley.

 

These guys are put in situations where beautiful women see the rich NFL players as opportunities to get rich and/or famous. Rape is an atrocious crime, but in the case of professional athletes, I believe there are far fewer rapes than false accusations.

[Guest TerraTor]

1) Big Ben, and others, face the Goodell hammer because they bring negative attention to the NFL. Period.

 

2) Guilty of crimes or not, Roethlisberger made stupid decisions, and that's why he has the negative attention (See #1).

 

I happen to believe that Big Ben did nothing wrong (other than stupid decision making - he should videotape every woman he plans on getting involved with BEFORE they make physical contact). The first case was proven to be a man-trap situation, and it was thrown out before it got to court. The second, most recent case is, IMHO, the same as the other. It is no surprise to me that the case has been dismissed, and the woman wanted to stop the prosecution process...oh, yeah, because it's too "intrusive." I read that as "has no evidence," and she doesn't want to turn into another Tawanna Brawley.

 

These guys are put in situations where beautiful women see the rich NFL players as opportunities to get rich and/or famous. Rape is an atrocious crime, but in the case of professional athletes, I believe there are far fewer rapes than false accusations.

 

 

bitches want money thats all it is

[madlithuanian]

While I see your point, it is pure specution.

 

We really have no idea what transpired. Someone is basically lying. And since the club conveniently erased the videotape, no one bu thte parties involved will ever know.

 

We all know the world has gold diggers. We also know many of these athletes/celebs think they live above the rules. Henceforth the problems that arise from making idiodic decicions.

 

I have no pity on a fool that chooses to put himself in harm's way 3 times... On a motorcycle, and w/ 2 women.

 

 

 

 

These guys are put in situations where beautiful women see the rich NFL players as opportunities to get rich and/or famous. Rape is an atrocious crime, but in the case of professional athletes, I believe there are far fewer rapes than false accusations.

 

[Guest TerraTor]

While I see your point, it is pure specution.

 

We really have no idea what transpired. Someone is basically lying. And since the club conveniently erased the videotape, no one bu thte parties involved will ever know.

 

We all know the world has gold diggers. We also know many of these athletes/celebs think they live above the rules. Henceforth the problems that arise from making idiodic decicions.

 

I have no pity on a fool that chooses to put himself in harm's way 3 times... On a motorcycle, and w/ 2 women.

one woman is usually bad enough, haha

[jason]

While I see your point, it is pure specution.

 

We really have no idea what transpired. Someone is basically lying. And since the club conveniently erased the videotape, no one bu thte parties involved will ever know.

 

We all know the world has gold diggers. We also know many of these athletes/celebs think they live above the rules. Henceforth the problems that arise from making idiodic decicions.

 

I have no pity on a fool that chooses to put himself in harm's way 3 times... On a motorcycle, and w/ 2 women.

 

True, it's speculation. But I'm inclined to believe the athlete over the tons of gold-diggers out there who always seem to find the athletes. If you've ever been to a club or a bar (or anywhere) when a famous person is around, you'd know what I mean.

 

As for Ben, I'm in agreement with you that he doesn't deserve pity. Hell, none of the pro athletes do. They get everything in the world handed to them on a silver platter - including the aforementioned rooms full of gorgeous women - and idiots like this somehow manage to screw it up by getting bad press.

[madlithuanian]

Why is buying into a pampered and non-reality living mega-millionaire's story any less or more difficult than a potential gold digger? (Kind of would depend on the athlete...Hillenmeyer...yes. Pacman Jones, no.) It's honestly one thing for these ladies of ill repute to try to get knocked up, but claim rape? That's really not happening very often. Not saying they aren't lying in this case, just saying I don't think it's as prevalent as you make it sound. In this day and age, with all the scrutiny, we don't hear of many of these kinds of cases, let alone 2 from one guy.

 

Trust me, I live in LA. I've probably seen more celebreties and athletes in bars, clubs, resaturants and walking the street than anyone here. I have worked in the music industry, the sports industry, and the film industry. I've seen, heard and been privvy to quite a bit. There are landmines for all to celebs avoid. However, many of these celebs/athletes give douche-bags a bad name. At least a douche-bag has an intented use. The smart ones stay out of these kinds of places. Hell, Charlie Sheen was smart enough at one point to utilize pros and not go hunting at the Standard or Bar Marmont.

 

I do agree with you though. There are some seriously trashy ladies out there looking for nothing other than cash. In this regard, it's like leaving the keys to your car in the ignition and leaving. Was the thief wrong to steal your car? Definiltey. Were you an idiot for leaving the keys? Definitely. The outcomes could be easily avoided with caution up front. With Rapelesberger (can't help it...), he not only left the keys, but he might have also stolen the car as well.

 

 

True, it's speculation. But I'm inclined to believe the athlete over the tons of gold-diggers out there who always seem to find the athletes. If you've ever been to a club or a bar (or anywhere) when a famous person is around, you'd know what I mean.

 

As for Ben, I'm in agreement with you that he doesn't deserve pity. Hell, none of the pro athletes do. They get everything in the world handed to them on a silver platter - including the aforementioned rooms full of gorgeous women - and idiots like this somehow manage to screw it up by getting bad press.