Jets to cut Pro Bowler Faneca

['TD']

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/i...o-bowler-faneca

 

Report: Jets to cut Pro Bowler Faneca

April, 24, 2010

Apr 24

1:37

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By Tim Graham

The New York Jets will release nine-time Pro Bowl left guard Alan Faneca, a source tells ESPNNewYork.com's Rich Cimini.

 

Faneca

Faneca

Cimini previously reported the Jets had been trying to trade Faneca in an attempt to unload his contract, which will pay him a base salary of $7.5 million this year.

 

Faneca couldn't have liked what he learned Friday night, when the Jets selected UMass guard Vladimir Ducasse in the second round of the draft, one of the highest-rated run-blocking guards in this year's class. Ducasse becomes the favorite to start in Faneca's old spot on opening night.

 

That the Jets would tinker with their elite offensive line is significant, when they're gearing up for a run at the Super Bowl.

 

Faneca, 33, was selected for the Pro Bowl both seasons he played for the Jets. He went eight straight times as a Pittsburgh Steeler. He was voted All-Pro six times.

 

But Faneca is starting to show his age. Football Outsiders managing editor Bill Barnwell recently produced a study on missed pass-blocking assignments. Faneca was the league's most frequently beaten left guard. He gave up seven sacks and three quarterback hurries.

[soxfan3530]

Faneca Officially Released. Go Get Him Bears!!!

[brletich]

He was one of the worst rated guards in pass protection last year...Not sure if he will really help us to be honest...

[defiantgiant]

He was one of the worst rated guards in pass protection last year...Not sure if he will really help us to be honest...

Yeah, this is it right here. He was mediocre in the run game and got abused in pass protection. Beekman's the better option.

 

2008: Beekman allowed 1.25 sacks in 16 starts. Faneca allowed 7 in the same span.

2009: Bears left guards allowed 2 sacks (Both by Omiyale...Beekman allowed ZERO) in 16 games. Faneca allowed 6 in 16.

[bradjock]

Yeah, this is it right here. He was mediocre in the run game and got abused in pass protection. Beekman's the better option.

 

2008: Beekman allowed 1.25 sacks in 16 starts. Faneca allowed 7 in the same span.

2009: Bears left guards allowed 2 sacks (Both by Omiyale...Beekman allowed ZERO) in 16 games. Faneca allowed 6 in 16.

 

Has his performance diminished THAT much in just 2 seasons with the Jets?

 

You'd really rather have Beekman starting at LG over him?

 

I am a bit nervous based on the Orlando Pace experiment, but now that the draft is over, by far our #1 need is o-line. Sign him to play LG, let Beekman be the all-purpose interior back-up, and let Omiyale and Shafer battle it out for the RT spot. It goes without saying Williams is the LT.

 

That would put on exclmation point on our offseason IMO.

[Stinger226]

Has his performance diminished THAT much in just 2 seasons with the Jets?

 

You'd really rather have Beekman starting at LG over him?

 

I am a bit nervous based on the Orlando Pace experiment, but now that the draft is over, by far our #1 need is o-line. Sign him to play LG, let Beekman be the all-purpose interior back-up, and let Omiyale and Shafer battle it out for the RT spot. It goes without saying Williams is the LT.

 

That would put on exclmation point on our offseason IMO.

If you can pick him up for not big money, that would add to the mix. I think getting released would put a chip on his shoulder not unlike Ruben Brown.

[nfoligno]

I'm sorry, but there is something a tad wrong there if it shows Omiyale only allowed 2 sacks.

 

Also, while his pass protection may have dropped some, I believe his run blocking was still very good.

 

At the end of the day, I would far rather have a pro bowl veteran like Faneca lining up next to Williams than Beekman. Nothing against Beekman, but I just do not see him helping Williams development, yet I do see that from Faneca. It isn't like I just want to add any veteran OL out there. I was dead against adding Pace, and spoke out against Flozell when he was cut by Dallas. But in Faneca, I see a player more like R.Brown who still has something to offer and could bring stability to the left side of the OL, ugrading our OG position and aiding the development of Williams.

 

Yeah, this is it right here. He was mediocre in the run game and got abused in pass protection. Beekman's the better option.

 

2008: Beekman allowed 1.25 sacks in 16 starts. Faneca allowed 7 in the same span.

2009: Bears left guards allowed 2 sacks (Both by Omiyale...Beekman allowed ZERO) in 16 games. Faneca allowed 6 in 16.

 

[bradjock]

I'm sorry, but there is something a tad wrong there if it shows Omiyale only allowed 2 sacks.

 

Also, while his pass protection may have dropped some, I believe his run blocking was still very good.

 

At the end of the day, I would far rather have a pro bowl veteran like Faneca lining up next to Williams than Beekman. Nothing against Beekman, but I just do not see him helping Williams development, yet I do see that from Faneca. It isn't like I just want to add any veteran OL out there. I was dead against adding Pace, and spoke out against Flozell when he was cut by Dallas. But in Faneca, I see a player more like R.Brown who still has something to offer and could bring stability to the left side of the OL, ugrading our OG position and aiding the development of Williams.

 

How did you come to the decision that Pace and Flozell were done but Faneca's not? I'm wondering because I loved the Pace signing.

 

Last week I said the Bears would get a veteran OG. You asked who that'd be since none are available. Faneca! I'd have said that a week ago but was busy

[defiantgiant]

I'm sorry, but there is something a tad wrong there if it shows Omiyale only allowed 2 sacks.

There's not something wrong, it's Cutler. Omiyale only allowed 2 sacks, but he gave up 4 QB hits and 12 pressures in just 13 games as a starter. The disparity in sacks-hits-pressures usually demonstrates that the QB has some escapability in the pocket. And we all remember how much Cutler was running for his life thanks to Omiyale.

 

But yeah, Faneca's play has fallen off a cliff. In his last 32 games, he gave up 13 sacks, 12 QB hits, and 29 pressures. And even if Cutler were his QB and some of those sacks turned into hits or pressures, those numbers are still awful. I'd rather have Beekman.

[Pixote]

I agree. Unless there is an underlying reason (he was plying injured but is now healthy) I would pass. We do not need another O Pace to cut next year.

[dawhizz]

Looks like he's at least going to get a look from the Bears.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=5133405

[bradjock]

I agree. Unless there is an underlying reason (he was plying injured but is now healthy) I would pass. We do not need another O Pace to cut next year.

 

But would we be getting Pace or would we be getting a player similar to Ruben Brown? I'd like to think our coaching staff is not a bunch of drooling idiots . . .

 

I learned today that last week Martz implied that Omiyale is now a RT and not a LG. Unless Lance Louis can play, we need a guard.

 

All I know is the Jets had one helluva a running attack. Sanchez was sacked a lot because teams brought the house daring him to throw. That and he was more likely to take a sack then throw an interception.

 

 

[bradjock]

More thoughts on Faneca:

 

We're making the comparison to Orlando Pace. One difference is that Pace was cut shortly after the season ended. The Rams wanted littled to do with him.

 

Meanwhile, the Jets were apparantly happy with Faneca. They just didn't think he was worth the coin they were spending. They tried to trade him to no avail. Once they drafted another player they liked he became expendable. They tried to renegotiate his deal, again to no avail.

 

I'll be honest, I have no idea how good he is. But his situation seems comparable to Alex Brown in that he's a good player but the team doesn't want to pay him more then he's worth. Alex Brown quickly signed a lesser deal with New Orleans. I expect Faneca to do the same and I hope that team's the Bears.

[rockren]

I would be shocked if the Bears weren't in the running for Faneca or another G. They KNEW they had to address the OL at some capacity this off-season and didn't do it in the draft.

[Pixote]

Good Points. Damn, before I did not care. Now I will be disappointed if we do not sign him. Shame on you!

[defiantgiant]

All I know is the Jets had one helluva a running attack. Sanchez was sacked a lot because teams brought the house daring him to throw. That and he was more likely to take a sack then throw an interception.

Sanchez wasn't the quarterback in 2008, and I don't think teams were daring Favre to throw. Faneca still allowed a ton of sacks, hits, and pressures. Also, I agree that the Jets had a great running attack, but they were the weakest running to the left by a long shot. I think their success in the run game may have had a lot more to do with Mangold-Moore-Woody than with the left side of the line.

['TD']

Sanchez wasn't the quarterback in 2008, and I don't think teams were daring Favre to throw. Faneca still allowed a ton of sacks, hits, and pressures. Also, I agree that the Jets had a great running attack, but they were the weakest running to the left by a long shot. I think their success in the run game may have had a lot more to do with Mangold-Moore-Woody than with the left side of the line.

 

 

I'm looking at TJ's stats and it doesn't look like they were wearker by a long shot running left. They just didn't run that way nearly as much. 4.9 YPC isn't a long shot away from 5.3. He had 3 TD's in half as many carries as the 4 he had on the other side. It sounds like he can still run block to me.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp...amp;page=splits

 

Plus, Faneca isn't on a decline by letting up so many sacks. He's been credited with 5 sacks or more 8 years of his career per stats.com.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp...288&team=20

 

Steve Hutchinson isn't the best pass blocker either,he's let up 10.5 sacks up int he last 2 years.

 

You can't doubt the running game that Minny has had, or that the Jets had last year.

 

EDIT: added an important stat below

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?off...mp;d-447263-p=1

 

That last link is a stat that's an important reason the Bears need Faneca. It's sorted by the Rush Power (PWR) stat for the left side. It's the percentage the team rushed on 3rd or 4th and less than 2 with 1st and 2nd and goal with less than 2 yards and got a 1st down or TD. The Jets were 3rd on the left side with 86%. The Bears were second to last with 40%.

[defiantgiant]

That's interesting. Do you know whether the NFL's stats count runs behind the left guard as "left" or "center"? I just went back to footballoutsiders' stats, and I realized that their "middle" category includes both guards and the center.

 

I'm inclined to think that the Bears' awful rankings running left may have a lot more to do with Pace than anything else. Last season, that guy was legitimately the worst run-blocking tackle I've ever seen. Meanwhile, the NFL's stats suggest that the Bears' line was actually pretty good on runs up the middle - they tied for the fewest negative runs in the league, they were 10th in power run success rate. The Jets were 23rd in negative runs and 18th in power success up the middle. I have to think that implicates Faneca to some degree.

 

EDIT: Also, the same thing is true on Stats, LLC's site - Thomas Jones averaged 4.9 YPC running to the left side and 5.3 running to the right, but only 3.4 up the middle. Again, I can't find out from their site if they're counting runs behind the guards as "middle" runs. I would assume that at least runs in the A gaps fall in the middle category, but I don't know for sure.

 

Of course, the whole comparison is a little difficult, since we can't get statistics for the Bears line after Williams took over for Pace, and since the NFL's stats don't go back to 2008, which means we can't look at the interior line when it was Beekman-Kreutz-Garza, as it's likely to be if we don't sign Faneca.

 

In any case, even if Faneca provides some push in the running game, I don't think it's worth all the extra sacks and pressures he gives up. Cutler was running for his life badly enough last season. I don't want to see it get worse, not when Martz is going to be placing so much emphasis on the passing game.

['TD']

That's interesting. Do you know whether the NFL's stats count runs behind the left guard as "left" or "center"? I just went back to footballoutsiders' stats, and I realized that their "middle" category includes both guards and the center.

 

I'm inclined to think that the Bears' awful rankings running left may have a lot more to do with Pace than anything else. Last season, that guy was legitimately the worst run-blocking tackle I've ever seen. Meanwhile, the NFL's stats suggest that the Bears' line was actually pretty good on runs up the middle - they tied for the fewest negative runs in the league, they were 10th in power run success rate. The Jets were 23rd in negative runs and 18th in power success up the middle. I have to think that implicates Faneca to some degree.

 

EDIT: Also, the same thing is true on Stats, LLC's site - Thomas Jones averaged 4.9 YPC running to the left side and 5.3 running to the right, but only 3.4 up the middle. Again, I can't find out from their site if they're counting runs behind the guards as "middle" runs. I would assume that at least runs in the A gaps fall in the middle category, but I don't know for sure.

 

Of course, the whole comparison is a little difficult, since we can't get statistics for the Bears line after Williams took over for Pace, and since the NFL's stats don't go back to 2008, which means we can't look at the interior line when it was Beekman-Kreutz-Garza, as it's likely to be if we don't sign Faneca.

 

In any case, even if Faneca provides some push in the running game, I don't think it's worth all the extra sacks and pressures he gives up. Cutler was running for his life badly enough last season. I don't want to see it get worse, not when Martz is going to be placing so much emphasis on the passing game.

 

 

I would love to debate the stats, and where they come frome with ya. I have some personal and car stuff I have to take care of today tho.

 

But there is a couple things I can add off the top of my head that I noticed while looking at all that last nite. The negative plays to the left I think is more of a TJ problem. If you look at his stats, the ones where he was near the left sideline he had 19 rushes for 22 yards, a 1.2 ypc average. Other players on the team didn't do nearly so bad, and I'm not sure how much of an effect Faneca had on those plays.

 

Also, I think NFL.com uses something similar to Stats.com based off of that. I think they lump in "Left sideline" and and "left side" just from number of first downs they had, 40, on the left side. But we can look at it later or tomorrow if you want if Faneca isn't signed yet, numbers are fun.

 

I think they go like (Left sideline) LT (Left)LG (Middle) C (Middle) RG (Right) RT (Right Sideline) on Stat.com if that makes any sense.

 

Here's Forte's splits on from 2008 from yahoo.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8821/s....uLYF?year=2008

 

Weakest on the left side running.

 

Anyways, really got to go, but I think the extra couple sacks per year are out weighed majorly by the chance to pick up that 3rd and short or goal.

 

[nfoligno]

How did you come to the decision that Pace and Flozell were done but Faneca's not? I'm wondering because I loved the Pace signing.

 

to start with, based on my eyes. I do not pretend to watch every team out there, but:

 

I saw a lot of Pace due to having Steven Jackson on my FF team, and watched his awful play. You could see him play higher, which usually indicates a player who can no longer bend their knees very well. He was slow off the snap, and would simply get beaten up. He also seemed to miss a lot of time due to injuries. The older a player gets the more often they are injured and the slower to recover. My opinion was solidified when reading the opinion of others. The group of FAs was pretty weak last year (often is at OT) and yet there was so little interst in his HOF LT. Only two other teams showed any interest in Pace (I remember Baltimore was one) and even Balt said they were interested only as a RT, and even then, he would not be given the job. We were the only team that felt he could not only play, but play LT.

 

For the record, it wasn't that I hated the idea of adding Pace. My issues with his addition were (a) I did not want him to play LT. If he were signed to play RT, fine, but I argued against the idea of moving Williams to the right side to make room for Pace. I felt Pace was done as a LT and Williams was an awful fit on the right side. ( I wanted to draft OL, and I knew that if we added Pace, we would ignore OL in the draft.

 

Flozell. Again, its the eyeball test. Living in Dallas, I watch plenty of Flozell, as well as hear plenty about him. He was just awful for Dallas last year. He was as much the joke of Dallas fans that Omiyale is to Chicago fans. Flozell was not just an awful player, but also one that constantly was flagged for penalties. Players who suck tend to "cheat" a bit. They try to come out of the snap a second sooner, or grab a handful of jersey. That was Flozell. Honestly, if you lived here and heard half of the comments about Flozell, you would not have to ask why I feel the way I do.

 

On Faneca, once again, I saw a good amount of Jets games. Frankly, I just enjoyed watching Sanzhez as much as anything. Faneca did have some trouble in pass protection at times, yet I would still point out he was blocking for a rookie, and Sanchez too often was the problem. He would hold the ball too long (for which the coaches got on him earlier in the year) or he would move in the pocket right into a defender. I am not absolving Faneca. His play in this area was not as good as it once was. At the same time, I just do not believe his play fell off the cliff the way I have seen from Pace or Adams. The cliff may be on the horizon, but I think he still has another year or two of solid play.

 

Last week I said the Bears would get a veteran OG. You asked who that'd be since none are available. Faneca! I'd have said that a week ago but was busy

 

My eyes are correctly rolling

[nfoligno]

Faneca and Beekman are near opposites. Faneca is struggling some in pass protection, but was still solid in run blocking. TJ and the rest did very well running betwen Faneca and (I think) Ferguson. Beekman did okay in pass protection, but was simply weak in terms of run blocking.

 

I would rather have Faneca at this point. I think Cutler can deal with the pressure when Faneca allows it (and make no mistake, it is nothing as bad as Omiyale or Pace). but we need a player who can open holes, and that is Faneca.

 

And as I have argued in the past also, having a player like Faneca will help Williams. Ferguson's play improved once Faneca arrived, and Ferguson often points to Faneca as a key factor in his improvement. I think Williams could develop far better lining up next to Faneca than he would next to Beekman.

 

There's not something wrong, it's Cutler. Omiyale only allowed 2 sacks, but he gave up 4 QB hits and 12 pressures in just 13 games as a starter. The disparity in sacks-hits-pressures usually demonstrates that the QB has some escapability in the pocket. And we all remember how much Cutler was running for his life thanks to Omiyale.

 

But yeah, Faneca's play has fallen off a cliff. In his last 32 games, he gave up 13 sacks, 12 QB hits, and 29 pressures. And even if Cutler were his QB and some of those sacks turned into hits or pressures, those numbers are still awful. I'd rather have Beekman.

 

[defiantgiant]

Faneca and Beekman are near opposites. Faneca is struggling some in pass protection, but was still solid in run blocking. TJ and the rest did very well running betwen Faneca and (I think) Ferguson. Beekman did okay in pass protection, but was simply weak in terms of run blocking.

 

I would rather have Faneca at this point. I think Cutler can deal with the pressure when Faneca allows it (and make no mistake, it is nothing as bad as Omiyale or Pace). but we need a player who can open holes, and that is Faneca.

 

And as I have argued in the past also, having a player like Faneca will help Williams. Ferguson's play improved once Faneca arrived, and Ferguson often points to Faneca as a key factor in his improvement. I think Williams could develop far better lining up next to Faneca than he would next to Beekman.

It's an interesting point about Williams' development. When he came out of UVA, Ferguson was a very similar player to Williams - great footwork, smooth pass-protector, but didn't have enough sand against the bull rush and couldn't drive-block in the run game. After a pretty rough rookie year, though, he corrected a lot of his problems, and pretty quickly, too. If Faneca had a hand in that, he might be able to help Williams out.

 

I'm still concerned about how badly he's started to break down in the passing game, but at the end of the day, my main issue is that I just don't want another free agent getting the starting job based on name recognition or his paycheck. It didn't work with Pace and it didn't work with Omiyale...even if Faneca's better than those two, I don't want him starting until he proves he's the best option. If he'd be amenable to competing with Beekman and whoever else, then the team has nothing to lose from bringing him in. If he wins, we get an upgrade at a need position. If he doesn't, at least we have depth and a veteran presence. But this team hasn't hit on a veteran o-lineman like John Tait or Ruben Brown in a while, and it'd make me nervous to see them handing the job to another potential Pace.

[nfoligno]

Understood, but there is another way of looking at this.

 

Lets be honest for a moment. Regardless how you feel or what you say about Beekman, the staff just doesn't love the idea of starting him. The first year he started, the ONLY reason he did was due to several other players going down with injury. He was not going to even be allowed an opportunity to compete at OG until there were some injuries that forced the move. Then he starts that year, and while I though he did "okay" the staff was pretty set on finding a replacement. As bad as Omiyale played, the staff really struggled to bench him, and even after they did, they soon gave the job back to him over Beekman.

 

To me, Beekman is similar to Graham, or even to Adams. Graham got to start his 2nd year, and did okay, but the staff just never seemed to like him, and this past year, he was not even given an opportunity. I remember in camp how players who didn't even make the team were getting reps over him. Then there is Adams. Man, this guy has never done anything but provide solid and steady play. Rarely spectacular, but solid. Yet the only time he gets a look is when other teams the staff pushes to the front utterly fail.

 

We can talk about Beekman, but IMHO, the staff just doesn't care for him and want to replace him.

 

I do hear you though. Regardless who we sign, if that player doesn't earn it, he should not be on the field. At the same time, I just feel we need to do more to improve our OL. Right now, we are likely to start either Beekman or Louis, which I would not call much of a competition. If we don't add Faneca, are we not making a similar mistake? Beekman is going to likely start, whether he earns the job or not, simply because we have no other options. Is that really better than if we hired a veteran who was handed the job? Seems like about the same problem, but for me, I see more potential OL improvement if we add Faneca.

 

It's an interesting point about Williams' development. When he came out of UVA, Ferguson was a very similar player to Williams - great footwork, smooth pass-protector, but didn't have enough sand against the bull rush and couldn't drive-block in the run game. After a pretty rough rookie year, though, he corrected a lot of his problems, and pretty quickly, too. If Faneca had a hand in that, he might be able to help Williams out.

 

I'm still concerned about how badly he's started to break down in the passing game, but at the end of the day, my main issue is that I just don't want another free agent getting the starting job based on name recognition or his paycheck. It didn't work with Pace and it didn't work with Omiyale...even if Faneca's better than those two, I don't want him starting until he proves he's the best option. If he'd be amenable to competing with Beekman and whoever else, then the team has nothing to lose from bringing him in. If he wins, we get an upgrade at a need position. If he doesn't, at least we have depth and a veteran presence. But this team hasn't hit on a veteran o-lineman like John Tait or Ruben Brown in a while, and it'd make me nervous to see them handing the job to another potential Pace.

 

[dawhizz]

He signed a 1 year, $2.5 million deal with the Cardinals today.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true

[Pixote]

I think the experience with Pace and the fact that even if he had anything left in his tank it would be a band-aid at most is the reason JA did not go for him.

 

There are already a lot of players being cut by teams. I think the Bears will wait until a younger player with some promise shows up before they pull the trigger.