Bears Acquire S Chris Harris for LB Jamar Williams

[madlithuanian]

But, I love you Chile! You'll see the error of your ways in the future!

 

 

Pinned section? What? Huh? Oh, yeah.

Oh, and thanks for pointing that out. I hate you Madlith!

[madlithuanian]

I was starting to feel depressed!

 

 

Hey Madlith, I love ya HA!

 

[nfoligno]

What a novel idea. Play the players where they perform the best.

 

DM to SS was never a good idea. He stunk at FS as well as CB. Where he has done well was nickel and on returns, and that is where he should be played.

 

I wouldn't worry about the team letting him walk or him not being around. He is already back-peddling on the holdout from what I have read. It is a humbling experience, but you know his agent was working the phones, and at the end of the day, no other team was interested enough to give up the pick for him. So now he is looking back to the bears, who are simply not going to throw money at him. Sounds like he is coming to grips with reality on this, and likely will end the holdout before long.

 

I hope so. He's good at both, and he's valuable in that role. I'm a little worried because he hasn't signed his tender yet, and the team might be thinking they can afford to let him walk. I mean, they could have Graham/Jennings compete for the nickel job and use Knox to return kicks. They could get by without Manning, but it'd hurt the depth at corner and take time away from Knox developing as a receiver.

 

[nfoligno]

Jason,

 

But remember, in Lovie's scheme, the two safeties positions are interchangable, and thus each of those SS' are also FS'.

 

Yea right.

 

I like Chris Harris and everything, but is there a new type of cover-2 defense that relies upon the abundance of strong safeties? Because we have them.

 

Maybe a 3-4-4? (j/k)

 

[nfoligno]

What I'm wanting to know:

1. Will he play FS or SS? What does this mean for Danieal Manning?

2. IMO we've really upgraded the defense. When the hell do we address the o-line?

 

This is the part that worries me a bit. I am sorry, but I honestly think fans have a tad bit of false memory here. Harris was often played as a FS for us, and he just wasn't that good. He was another in the long line of safeties that simply took poor angles and was slow to react on deep coverage assignments. As a Bear, he didn't load up the tackle numbers, and simply wasn't much of a playmaker either.

 

Carolina move him to SS and give him different assignments, and he flourishes. He goes for a 50 tackle guy to 90 overnight. Further, that reputation he has earned as a ball stripped didn't come from his days in Chicago, where I believe he had none. It comes from his racking up 8 strips his first year in Carolina.

 

When you look at his time in Chicago, and then what he did in Carolina, it shows that Carolina knew how to use him far better than we did. The question now is, do we insert him into his old role where he struggled and caused him to be dealt for a 6th round pick, or do we play him like Carolina did?

 

I like this move so long as he lines up at SS, but if we line him up at FS, I think it was a mistake.

 

As for the OL, what are you talking about. We added a OL in the 7th round, and you know Angelo's tremendous track record with those late round OL picks.

[defiantgiant]

Jason,

 

But remember, in Lovie's scheme, the two safeties positions are interchangable, and thus each of those SS' are also FS'.

 

Yea right.

On a serious note, I wonder if Lovie's finally realized that he needs personnel who aren't strictly limited to a Tampa-2 scheme. Peppers and Wootton are bigger DEs who can play the run, Chris Harris is more of an in-the-box safety, Major Wright is a Cover-1 centerfielder, Josh Moore (if he turns out to be anything) is a corner who's best in man coverage...maybe we're seeing the Bears finally start tailoring their roster to the blitzing 4-3 that they run about 60% of the time, rather than to the Tampa-2 scheme that they use less and less each season.

[madlithuanian]

I too am worried. I like Harris. I think he's a solid player at SS. I fear our current staff may not have the brain matter to see that. You know, because Zombies like to eat brains.

 

What I'm wanting to know:

1. Will he play FS or SS? What does this mean for Danieal Manning?

2. IMO we've really upgraded the defense. When the hell do we address the o-line?

 

This is the part that worries me a bit. I am sorry, but I honestly think fans have a tad bit of false memory here. Harris was often played as a FS for us, and he just wasn't that good. He was another in the long line of safeties that simply took poor angles and was slow to react on deep coverage assignments. As a Bear, he didn't load up the tackle numbers, and simply wasn't much of a playmaker either.

 

Carolina move him to SS and give him different assignments, and he flourishes. He goes for a 50 tackle guy to 90 overnight. Further, that reputation he has earned as a ball stripped didn't come from his days in Chicago, where I believe he had none. It comes from his racking up 8 strips his first year in Carolina.

 

When you look at his time in Chicago, and then what he did in Carolina, it shows that Carolina knew how to use him far better than we did. The question now is, do we insert him into his old role where he struggled and caused him to be dealt for a 6th round pick, or do we play him like Carolina did?

 

I like this move so long as he lines up at SS, but if we line him up at FS, I think it was a mistake.

 

As for the OL, what are you talking about. We added a OL in the 7th round, and you know Angelo's tremendous track record with those late round OL picks.

 

[madlithuanian]

nfo,

 

That line had me laughing on the floor! Thanks for the humor!

 

What a novel idea. Play the players where they perform the best.

.

 

[balta1701-A]

This fact struck me yesterday. Compared with the worst portion of last season, the Bears are going to be looking at having overturned at least 6 starters on the defensive side of the ball, maybe more depending on how you count them. 2 new safeties, 2 new linebackers, 2 new defensive ends. Probably a new "Nickel" back, maybe a new cornerback, maybe a new nosetackle, depending on how you want to classify everyone.

[Bears4Ever_34]

So who's going to be our starting safeties then? Chris Harris and Major Wright? We don't have a FREE SAFETY! Why are we getting all strong safeties??

[defiantgiant]

So who's going to be our starting safeties then? Chris Harris and Major Wright? We don't have a FREE SAFETY! Why are we getting all strong safeties??

Major Wright is a free safety. That's where he played at Florida and that's where he projects in the pros. He's almost as fast as Danieal Manning and Florida played him in the deep middle constantly. He's not a strong safety.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Major Wright is a free safety. That's where he played at Florida and that's where he projects in the pros. He's almost as fast as Danieal Manning and Florida played him in the deep middle constantly. He's not a strong safety.

But his skills translate more to a strong safety. He's a great tackler but not the ball hawking safety you would like from that position.

[defiantgiant]

But his skills translate more to a strong safety. He's a great tackler but not the ball hawking safety you would like from that position.

I don't think it's as dire as you make it out to be. Wright had 3 picks last season and 4 picks in 2008 - Mike Brown got more than 3 picks just once in his whole career. It's not like you have to be Ed Reed or else you're just a strong safety. I agree that Wright's ball skills could stand to improve, but not all free safeties are ballhawks and not all ballhawks are free safeties. Look at the Steelers - Polamalu's the ballhawk, and he's the SS. Ryan Clark's job is basically to play single-high a lot, hit people really hard, and generally clean up on the back end. But since he has the range to play center field and is sound in coverage, he's a good FS for them.

 

The thing that limits guys to strong safety isn't lack of ball skills, it's lack of range. That's what's been killing the Bears the last couple of seasons - forget ball skills, we didn't have any safeties who could get to the ball in the first place. Steltz, Payne, and Afalava were all a step (or three) too slow in coverage. Daniel Manning had the range, but all the speed in the world won't help if you can't figure out where you're supposed to go. Wright's got both the range and the instincts in coverage to play FS. He can work to improve his ball skills, but he's not a SS.

 

EDIT:

Here's Jon Hoke on Wright -

"We're going to play him at free to begin with. In this system they have to be able to do both jobs, so he'll learn both, but he has characteristics (for both). He's a ball guy, he's obviously got excellent speed from the times he ran, and he plays fast, but he is a physical guy also."

[balta1701-A]

A note from why the other side did this deal:

First, an update, out of John Fox’s wrap-up comments. This one’s interesting. Fox talked about the decision to trade safety Chris Harris and said the team’s budget had something to do with the move. In other words, it had a lot to do with the trade and probably prompted it. Consider this another sign that general manager Marty Hurney is probably steering this boat more than ever. Decisions are being made with a possible 2011 lockout in mind and the long-term future a big part of every decision. Yes, we all know Fox is on the hot seat as he heads into the final year of his contract. But I’m not so sure Hurney falls into that category in the eyes of owner Jerry Richardson.

[nfoligno]

One. I just do not get the idea that unless your guy is expected to get 6 picks, he isn't a FS. Think about it this way. Throw out the number 8 (picks). That is a fairly huge number of total picks for a year, and yet would only be a pick every two games. I want to look at a stat that reflects far more than what a guy does every couple games.

 

If the kid can cover and prevent the reception, I don't care if he has hands of stone.

 

Two. Hoke's comments kind of piss me off. We have here a rookie we hope to start from day one. The last thing we need to do is put too much on this kid. Teach him to be a FS. Don't even think about, much less talk about, much less act on the idea of him as a SS. Don't even throw it out there. Put him at FS and let him develop. Haven't we made this sort of mistake time and time again. We put too much on rookies? Or we move players around and they never really develop at any one spot? Enough of this crap that the safeties are interchangable. It seems like the only people who still believe that is our coaches. How about doing it like the rest of the league. Get a FS to play FS and a SS to play strong safety.

 

Hoke is really hacking me off. I wasn't on board with his hiring to begin with. The secondary was always an area of weakness in Houston, and he was the man in charge. He comes in and, from what I read, instantly felt Graham was too slow and thus doesn't even give him a shot to play CB. The kid played pretty well at CB his 2nd year (injured his first) and then isn't even given practice reps in camp the following year, and I read that was all on Hoke.

 

I don't think it's as dire as you make it out to be. Wright had 3 picks last season and 4 picks in 2008 - Mike Brown got more than 3 picks just once in his whole career. It's not like you have to be Ed Reed or else you're just a strong safety. I agree that Wright's ball skills could stand to improve, but not all free safeties are ballhawks and not all ballhawks are free safeties. Look at the Steelers - Polamalu's the ballhawk, and he's the SS. Ryan Clark's job is basically to play single-high a lot, hit people really hard, and generally clean up on the back end. But since he has the range to play center field and is sound in coverage, he's a good FS for them.

 

The thing that limits guys to strong safety isn't lack of ball skills, it's lack of range. That's what's been killing the Bears the last couple of seasons - forget ball skills, we didn't have any safeties who could get to the ball in the first place. Steltz, Payne, and Afalava were all a step (or three) too slow in coverage. Daniel Manning had the range, but all the speed in the world won't help if you can't figure out where you're supposed to go. Wright's got both the range and the instincts in coverage to play FS. He can work to improve his ball skills, but he's not a SS.

 

EDIT:

Here's Jon Hoke on Wright -

"We're going to play him at free to begin with. In this system they have to be able to do both jobs, so he'll learn both, but he has characteristics (for both). He's a ball guy, he's obviously got excellent speed from the times he ran, and he plays fast, but he is a physical guy also."

 

[madlithuanian]

Sounds like Hoke is Smith's long lost sibling...

 

 

One. I just do not get the idea that unless your guy is expected to get 6 picks, he isn't a FS. Think about it this way. Throw out the number 8 (picks). That is a fairly huge number of total picks for a year, and yet would only be a pick every two games. I want to look at a stat that reflects far more than what a guy does every couple games.

 

If the kid can cover and prevent the reception, I don't care if he has hands of stone.

 

Two. Hoke's comments kind of piss me off. We have here a rookie we hope to start from day one. The last thing we need to do is put too much on this kid. Teach him to be a FS. Don't even think about, much less talk about, much less act on the idea of him as a SS. Don't even throw it out there. Put him at FS and let him develop. Haven't we made this sort of mistake time and time again. We put too much on rookies? Or we move players around and they never really develop at any one spot? Enough of this crap that the safeties are interchangable. It seems like the only people who still believe that is our coaches. How about doing it like the rest of the league. Get a FS to play FS and a SS to play strong safety.

 

Hoke is really hacking me off. I wasn't on board with his hiring to begin with. The secondary was always an area of weakness in Houston, and he was the man in charge. He comes in and, from what I read, instantly felt Graham was too slow and thus doesn't even give him a shot to play CB. The kid played pretty well at CB his 2nd year (injured his first) and then isn't even given practice reps in camp the following year, and I read that was all on Hoke.

 

[defiantgiant]

One. I just do not get the idea that unless your guy is expected to get 6 picks, he isn't a FS. Think about it this way. Throw out the number 8 (picks). That is a fairly huge number of total picks for a year, and yet would only be a pick every two games. I want to look at a stat that reflects far more than what a guy does every couple games.

 

If the kid can cover and prevent the reception, I don't care if he has hands of stone.

Exactly. There are plenty of cover corners in the league who can't catch a cold (like Carlos Rogers or Ike Taylor) and they still help their teams' pass defense more than a guy like DeAngelo Hall, who always tries to play the ball and gets burned constantly. Hell, Nnamdi Asomugha has only had 1 interception a season the last three years running, and I think we can all agree that he's an elite corner.

 

There's some site (maybe it's PFF?) that tracks receptions allowed and what opposing QBs' rating was when throwing into a corner's coverage. That might be a better indicator of how well a CB is playing each game than a stat that, like you said, only shows up a few times a season.

 

Two. Hoke's comments kind of piss me off. We have here a rookie we hope to start from day one. The last thing we need to do is put too much on this kid. Teach him to be a FS. Don't even think about, much less talk about, much less act on the idea of him as a SS. Don't even throw it out there. Put him at FS and let him develop. Haven't we made this sort of mistake time and time again. We put too much on rookies? Or we move players around and they never really develop at any one spot? Enough of this crap that the safeties are interchangable. It seems like the only people who still believe that is our coaches. How about doing it like the rest of the league. Get a FS to play FS and a SS to play strong safety.

 

I'm a little more on board with Wright learning free and strong than with Manning getting pushed all around the secondary or with Bennett learning all the receiver positions instead of getting locked in at one. Even in a non-Tampa-2 defense, when you blitz you often need to disguise which safety is going to be doing what. If we can ask the OLBs to play the Mike in some blitzes, I don't see why we can't ask the safeties to learn each other's roles, too. If they're just teaching him SS to the extent that any FS has to know it, I'm OK with that. That said, if Hoke honestly hasn't made his mind up where Wright is going to play, that's a problem. There's one need spot in the secondary, we don't have anybody adequate to fill it, just get the new guy locked in there.

[nfoligno]

Exactly. There are plenty of cover corners in the league who can't catch a cold (like Carlos Rogers or Ike Taylor) and they still help their teams' pass defense more than a guy like DeAngelo Hall, who always tries to play the ball and gets burned constantly. Hell, Nnamdi Asomugha has only had 1 interception a season the last three years running, and I think we can all agree that he's an elite corner.

 

There's some site (maybe it's PFF?) that tracks receptions allowed and what opposing QBs' rating was when throwing into a corner's coverage. That might be a better indicator of how well a CB is playing each game than a stat that, like you said, only shows up a few times a season.

 

Vasher is a player I would point to. Even in his prime, Vasher was never a very good cover corner. He racked up some picks, and gained a reputation for it (even making the pro bowl) but I don't think QBs were ever afraid to throw against him. I always thought he was over-rated.

 

I'm a little more on board with Wright learning free and strong than with Manning getting pushed all around the secondary or with Bennett learning all the receiver positions instead of getting locked in at one. Even in a non-Tampa-2 defense, when you blitz you often need to disguise which safety is going to be doing what. If we can ask the OLBs to play the Mike in some blitzes, I don't see why we can't ask the safeties to learn each other's roles, too. If they're just teaching him SS to the extent that any FS has to know it, I'm OK with that. That said, if Hoke honestly hasn't made his mind up where Wright is going to play, that's a problem. There's one need spot in the secondary, we don't have anybody adequate to fill it, just get the new guy locked in there.

 

I have no problem with players learning multiple positions. My problem is putting too much on rookies. Think about the situation for a rookie. Many in college thrive, in part, due to playing so many lesser opponents. Florida gets a game against some school no one has ever heard of. Even when facing good teams, those teams are not stacked w/ all future NFL players. Once hitting the NFL, even the lesser players are on a much higher level. And the speed of the game is so much faster. They have to learn a new playbook. Some rookies get time to develop or a red shirt sort of year, but we are talking about a rookie we want to start day one. Rookie's have a huge mountain to climb, and IMHO, you have to limit what you throw at the rookie. I agree that it is good for a FS to also learn the SS position, but at the same time, I think that happens AFTER they first learn the FS position. Learn your position before learning others.

 

Look at Bennett and Knox as prime examples. Is it beneficial for a WR to understand multiple WR positions (X, Y, Flanker, etc). Absolutely. But is it fair to expect a rookie WR to learn all the WR positions? I don't think so. Bennett is a smart player, and yet he essentially lost his rookie year due to the staff asking him to learn too much. On the other hand, when Knox came in, we simply asked him to learn one WR role, which he did, and he did well. Once he was comfortable in that role, we began to expand it, but not until he first got the first part down.

 

 

 

 

[BigDaddy]

It is hard to get fired up about picking up harris since we let him go not too long ago. Yes, he is better than what we have but it just makes me nauseous to see the incompetence in coaching and the GM to have to give up more talent for a guy they admittedly now should have kept.

[Mongo3451]

 

I have no problem with players learning multiple positions. My problem is putting too much on rookies. Think about the situation for a rookie. Many in college thrive, in part, due to playing so many lesser opponents. Florida gets a game against some school no one has ever heard of. Even when facing good teams, those teams are not stacked w/ all future NFL players. Once hitting the NFL, even the lesser players are on a much higher level. And the speed of the game is so much faster. They have to learn a new playbook. Some rookies get time to develop or a red shirt sort of year, but we are talking about a rookie we want to start day one. Rookie's have a huge mountain to climb, and IMHO, you have to limit what you throw at the rookie. I agree that it is good for a FS to also learn the SS position, but at the same time, I think that happens AFTER they first learn the FS position. Learn your position before learning others.

I agree and have a big problem with this as well. See if the guys pick up what you are teaching before you teach them something new. It must translate to the playing field. Everyone knows Wright was drafted to play FS. Play him there! As of now, he's the only player we have that is a league average FS.(and we don't even know that yet) We have 6 other SS's on the roster that we know aren't good FS's. This jackassery has got to stop. Problem with the D these last few years is the same idiot at the top of the chain. Too many men in shorts and too many square pegs in round holes.