Kevin Payne traded to the St. Louis Rams

[adam]

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/status/13030148512

Bears traded S Kevin Payne to the St. Louis Rams for an undisclosed 2011 draft pick.

 

 

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2010/04/pa..._for_draft.html

The Bears have traded safety Kevin Payne to the St. Louis Rams for a 2010 draft pick, the team announced.

 

Originally a fifth-round pick of the Bears, Payne started 22 of 32 games played over three seasons, recording 195 tackles, four interceptions, 10 passes defended and one sack.

 

Payne was made expendable after the Bears traded for Chris Harris on Tuesday.

 

UPDATE: Bears would get a seventh round pick, if Payne makes the Rams roster.

[Pixote]

Excellent, we figured someone was going to exit as we had too many bodies at safety. It is great we can get something in return. Any draft pick received is better than just letting the guy walk.

[adam]

So now our safeties look like this:

 

Chris Harris

Major Wright

Al Afalava

Danieal Manning

Josh Bullocks

Craig Steltz

 

I wonder if they will use Manning more as a 5th DB and on returns exclusively with the other 5 being the primary safeties.

[SoxFan1]

I'd much rather have just cut Bullocks and called it a day, but it looks like we wanted to save some money.

[Pixote]

I say we grab the safety from STL they have yet to resign and drop Bullocks. Now then we would have a kick butt set of SS & FS to field.

[Connorbear]

Excellent, we figured someone was going to exit as we had too many bodies at safety. It is great we can get something in return. Any draft pick received is better than just letting the guy walk.

Undisclosed draft pick usually means conditional on making the team. Most likely a 6th or 7th if he makes the team.

 

Good luck to him.

 

Peace

[adam]

This seems like insurance for Atogwe. That would be silly if we picked him up too, and then cut Bullocks and Steltz.

[madlithuanian]

No surprise. Other than only getting a 7th for him if he makes the roster. Hell Rams, we took your miserable defensive coordinator from you and blessed him a head coach, at least you could just straight up give us a 7th without any strings!

[bradjock]

I'd much rather have just cut Bullocks and called it a day, but it looks like we wanted to save some money.

 

Payne was a 5th round pick entering his 4th season. That means he's likely making close to the minimum which is $300,000+

 

Bullocks is entering his 6th year. I "think" that means he's entitled to the veteran's minimum, which is around $800,000.

 

I don't promise to be accurate on numbers, but I do promise we're not saving money by trading him instead of Bullocks.

[bradjock]

This is extreme dysfunction and a FUBAR mess. What's happened:

2005--We draft Chris Harris in round 5. He plays and starts his rookie season & starts in the Super Bowl in 2006.

2007--We're unhappy with Chris Harris. He's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover. We trade for Archuletta & love Payne. Harris is traded.

2007 Season--Archuleta's a joke & Payne breaks his arm game 3. Harris looks like a pro-bowler for Carolina

2008--Payne starts 16 games but he's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover. We draft Steltz.

2009--Payne is benched for rookie Al Afalva. Afalava's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover.

2010--We trade 4th round pick Williams for Chris Harris. Carolina's lost faith in Harris cause he's a big hitter who often misses and can't cover. To make room for Harris we give Payne to St. Louis.

 

Does anyone see a difference between Harris, Payne & Afalava? Why did we give away Payne? At the very least, why not wait until TC?

[sulster]

i have a headache now

 

This is extreme dysfunction and a FUBAR mess. What's happened:

2005--We draft Chris Harris in round 5. He plays and starts his rookie season & starts in the Super Bowl in 2006.

2007--We're unhappy with Chris Harris. He's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover. We trade for Archuletta & love Payne. Harris is traded.

2007 Season--Archuleta's a joke & Payne breaks his arm game 3. Harris looks like a pro-bowler for Carolina

2008--Payne starts 16 games but he's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover. We draft Steltz.

2009--Payne is benched for rookie Al Afalva. Afalava's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover.

2010--We trade 4th round pick Williams for Chris Harris. Carolina's lost faith in Harris cause he's a big hitter who often misses and can't cover. To make room for Harris we give Payne to St. Louis.

 

Does anyone see a difference between Harris, Payne & Afalava? Why did we give away Payne? At the very least, why not wait until TC?

 

[nfoligno]

Couple thoughts on the "why now".

 

One. Angelo has in the past tried to sort of take care of the players who will not be Bears. If Angelo simply did not believe Payne would make the roster, sending him packing now gives him an opportunity better than what he may have with us.

 

Two. Someone offered something for him now. No guarantees that will be the case down the road.

 

At the end of the day, I think Payne was simply seen as the odd man out (not likely to make the roster) but one who could get us something in return. I think Bullocks isn't likely to make the roster either, but as he likely has no value on the market, we can hand on to him in case something happens to another safety.

 

What is just sad IMHO, is how we have continued to repeat our mistakes over and over again. We have continually drafted the same type of safety, and done so on the 2nd day of the draft (old format). All these guys were considered in the box safeties, yet we were surprised by their lack of cover skills.

 

Gray 5th

Todd Johnson 4th

Harris 6th

Payne 5th

Steltz 4th

Afalava 6th

 

Daniell Manning was the exception, both in where he was drafted and in style. That didn't work out either, but at least that pick was different.

 

The truly sad thing is, Angelo has drafted a safety in 8 of his 9 drafts, and we have never found a consistent starter, much less a good or pro bowl players. Here's to hoping Wright finally breaks that bad streak.

 

This is extreme dysfunction and a FUBAR mess. What's happened:

2005--We draft Chris Harris in round 5. He plays and starts his rookie season & starts in the Super Bowl in 2006.

2007--We're unhappy with Chris Harris. He's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover. We trade for Archuletta & love Payne. Harris is traded.

2007 Season--Archuleta's a joke & Payne breaks his arm game 3. Harris looks like a pro-bowler for Carolina

2008--Payne starts 16 games but he's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover. We draft Steltz.

2009--Payne is benched for rookie Al Afalva. Afalava's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover.

2010--We trade 4th round pick Williams for Chris Harris. Carolina's lost faith in Harris cause he's a big hitter who often misses and can't cover. To make room for Harris we give Payne to St. Louis.

 

Does anyone see a difference between Harris, Payne & Afalava? Why did we give away Payne? At the very least, why not wait until TC?

 

[defiantgiant]

Yeah, Danieal Manning was different, but he also fits in a category of Bears picks that we see over and over again: trait players. It seems like almost every draft the Bears pick a guy for being an outstanding athlete, even if he comes from a lower level of competition, doesn't have a true position, or both. It's fine to gamble on those kinds of players late in the draft (like Johnny Knox or Mark Anderson) but spending high picks on hit-or-miss guys is way too risky. Sometimes you'll hit and get Devin Hester, but a lot of the time you'll miss and get Danieal Manning or Jarron Gilbert. And you can't really make up for those early misses by taking football-smart guys with sub-par athleticism later in the draft, like Angelo did with Steltz and Payne.

 

That's why I really like the Wright pick. I'm hoping that he can kind of be the best of both worlds: maybe he doesn't have stellar athletic ability like Manning, but the guy's not limited like Steltz/Payne either, and he's supposed to be very football smart, which is more than you can say for Manning. I'm really hoping that Angelo's learned from his mistakes, but I don't think we'll know unless he's around for the draft next year, so we can see what he does on Day 1.

[madlithuanian]

It's the old definition of insanity! Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results! Once common thread...moron HC.

 

This is extreme dysfunction and a FUBAR mess. What's happened:

2005--We draft Chris Harris in round 5. He plays and starts his rookie season & starts in the Super Bowl in 2006.

2007--We're unhappy with Chris Harris. He's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover. We trade for Archuletta & love Payne. Harris is traded.

2007 Season--Archuleta's a joke & Payne breaks his arm game 3. Harris looks like a pro-bowler for Carolina

2008--Payne starts 16 games but he's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover. We draft Steltz.

2009--Payne is benched for rookie Al Afalva. Afalava's a big hitter who often misses & can't cover.

2010--We trade 4th round pick Williams for Chris Harris. Carolina's lost faith in Harris cause he's a big hitter who often misses and can't cover. To make room for Harris we give Payne to St. Louis.

 

Does anyone see a difference between Harris, Payne & Afalava? Why did we give away Payne? At the very least, why not wait until TC?

 

[nfoligno]

Yeah, Danieal Manning was different, but he also fits in a category of Bears picks that we see over and over again: trait players. It seems like almost every draft the Bears pick a guy for being an outstanding athlete, even if he comes from a lower level of competition, doesn't have a true position, or both. It's fine to gamble on those kinds of players late in the draft (like Johnny Knox or Mark Anderson) but spending high picks on hit-or-miss guys is way too risky. Sometimes you'll hit and get Devin Hester, but a lot of the time you'll miss and get Danieal Manning or Jarron Gilbert. And you can't really make up for those early misses by taking football-smart guys with sub-par athleticism later in the draft, like Angelo did with Steltz and Payne.

 

No arguments here. I have often complained about our taking guys that look great in shorts but don't translate to the fieldball field. Agreed also that it is fine to take shots at players like that later in the draft, but not so sure about earlier. Then again, one of our biggest "hits" was such a player. Urlacher came from a smaller school and lesser competition. He didn't have a true position entering the draft as he played a hybrid position (rover) in college. GMs were not sure whether he was a SS, FS, SLB, MLB or WLB. Tremendous athlete. That one worked out. But for every Urlacher (would also mention Kearse) you have far more Daniel Manning sort of players.

 

That's why I really like the Wright pick. I'm hoping that he can kind of be the best of both worlds: maybe he doesn't have stellar athletic ability like Manning, but the guy's not limited like Steltz/Payne either, and he's supposed to be very football smart, which is more than you can say for Manning. I'm really hoping that Angelo's learned from his mistakes, but I don't think we'll know unless he's around for the draft next year, so we can see what he does on Day 1.

 

Agreed that Wright seems different in that he appears to have more natural athleticism and coverage skills than most of the rest of the safeties we have drafted, but also being considered a "football player" rather than an athlete who plays football. I have numerous times read someone say he is a more athletic Mike Brown.

[nfoligno]

No argument about the HC being "insane," but for the purpose of this, I think we are more talking about Angelo.

 

It's the old definition of insanity! Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results! Once common thread...moron HC.

 

[madlithuanian]

Point well made...!

 

 

 

No argument about the HC being "insane," but for the purpose of this, I think we are more talking about Angelo.

 

[bradjock]

One. Angelo has in the past tried to sort of take care of the players who will not be Bears. If Angelo simply did not believe Payne would make the roster, sending him packing now gives him an opportunity better than what he may have with us.

 

At the announcement of the trade, the SCORE reported Payne would ask for his release. One of the Chicago papers had a story about how Payne's agent worked hard to get him traded and not released.

 

Answer this: Is Payne better then Afalava? Bullocks? Steltz? To me it's the same or worse. At one point we thought Payne was better then Harris. Why dump him?

 

Two. Someone offered something for him now. No guarantees that will be the case down the road.

 

At best we get a 6th, if he doesn't make the team we get nothing. IMO we'll end up with a 7th. Not worth it IMO.

 

At the end of the day, I think Payne was simply seen as the odd man out (not likely to make the roster) but one who could get us something in return. I think Bullocks isn't likely to make the roster either, but as he likely has no value on the market, we can hand on to him in case something happens to another safety.

 

Unless we move D Manning back to nickel. We might dump D.J. Moore or Spencer. We'll likely keep 5 safeties.

 

What is just sad IMHO, is how we have continued to repeat our mistakes over and over again. We have continually drafted the same type of safety, and done so on the 2nd day of the draft (old format). All these guys were considered in the box safeties, yet we were surprised by their lack of cover skills.

 

Agreed. What's worse is we often praise Angelo for drafting them. We heard great things about Payne and Afalva.

 

Daniell Manning was the exception, both in where he was drafted and in style. That didn't work out either, but at least that pick was different.

 

Agreed.

 

The truly sad thing is, Angelo has drafted a safety in 8 of his 9 drafts, and we have never found a consistent starter, much less a good or pro bowl players. Here's to hoping Wright finally breaks that bad streak.

 

Wright at FS, Harris at SS, D Manning at nickel. I can live with that.

[lemonej]

Couple thoughts on the "why now".

 

One. Angelo has in the past tried to sort of take care of the players who will not be Bears. If Angelo simply did not believe Payne would make the roster, sending him packing now gives him an opportunity better than what he may have with us.

 

Two. Someone offered something for him now. No guarantees that will be the case down the road.

 

At the end of the day, I think Payne was simply seen as the odd man out (not likely to make the roster) but one who could get us something in return. I think Bullocks isn't likely to make the roster either, but as he likely has no value on the market, we can hand on to him in case something happens to another safety.

 

What is just sad IMHO, is how we have continued to repeat our mistakes over and over again. We have continually drafted the same type of safety, and done so on the 2nd day of the draft (old format). All these guys were considered in the box safeties, yet we were surprised by their lack of cover skills.

 

Gray 5th

Todd Johnson 4th

Harris 6th

Payne 5th

Steltz 4th

Afalava 6th

 

Daniell Manning was the exception, both in where he was drafted and in style. That didn't work out either, but at least that pick was different.

 

The truly sad thing is, Angelo has drafted a safety in 8 of his 9 drafts, and we have never found a consistent starter, much less a good or pro bowl players. Here's to hoping Wright finally breaks that bad streak.

Nfo we're on the same page when it comes to this draft scenario. He also takes a DE very frequently and CBs also.

[Daventry]

I hate to see Payne go, like Harris I liked his attitude and hitting ability. He was a bit weak in coverage, but then I don't think our situation at safety is as dire as some believe. I have a feeling that once we get a decent pass rush we will stop seeing safeties chasing WR's down the field.

[nfoligno]

Something people need to remember is, when Harris was weak in coverage, it was often from playing FS, or being used like one. Even as a SS, there were times we played Brown in the box and played Harris more like a tradional FS. Either way, so long as we play him more like an in-the-box SS, he should be fine.

 

I agree in theory about the coverage being less of an issue if we have an improved pass rush, but despite the addition of Peppers, that is yet to be seen. We added Peppers, which is great, but we need other DL to prove capable of stepping up, and I think there are considerable questions at all other DL positions. Anderson hasn't been a pass rusher since his rookie season, and Idonije has never really been one. Harris has not shown that explosive ability for some time, and showing "some" flashes later last year is far from the consistent level we need from him. And no other DT has shown crap in terms of pass rush.

 

So while we added Peppers, we need at least one, if not two, other DL to step up for our pass rush to really improve, IMHO.

 

I hate to see Payne go, like Harris I liked his attitude and hitting ability. He was a bit weak in coverage, but then I don't think our situation at safety is as dire as some believe. I have a feeling that once we get a decent pass rush we will stop seeing safeties chasing WR's down the field.

 

[Daventry]

Something people need to remember is, when Harris was weak in coverage, it was often from playing FS, or being used like one. Even as a SS, there were times we played Brown in the box and played Harris more like a tradional FS. Either way, so long as we play him more like an in-the-box SS, he should be fine.

 

I agree in theory about the coverage being less of an issue if we have an improved pass rush, but despite the addition of Peppers, that is yet to be seen. We added Peppers, which is great, but we need other DL to prove capable of stepping up, and I think there are considerable questions at all other DL positions. Anderson hasn't been a pass rusher since his rookie season, and Idonije has never really been one. Harris has not shown that explosive ability for some time, and showing "some" flashes later last year is far from the consistent level we need from him. And no other DT has shown crap in terms of pass rush.

 

So while we added Peppers, we need at least one, if not two, other DL to step up for our pass rush to really improve, IMHO.

 

 

I agree entirely. Anderson is going to have to step up, if he doesn't alot of people will be talking about Alex Brown after a few games. I wish we could have kept Alex, he was if nothing else solid, which I am not sure that we can say about Anderson yet.

 

Lots of questions at DT, with Harris a big question mark, Harrison showing little thus far, Idonije unproven, etc....it will be interesting.

[nfoligno]

The ironic thing is, I have always argued how over-rated Alex Brown is. He usually ends up with 5 or so sacks, but does so in maybe 2 or 3 games where he plays great, but in the rest, he is a near non factor in terms of pass rush. He takes very wide angles and is easily pushed out of the play.

 

At the same time, he was a decent enough all around DE. He was solid against the run, and decent enough vs the pass that he at least had the potential to be a factor. Now I see us planning to go w/ 2 DEs. One has "potential" as a pass rusher based on a great rookie year and some flashes last year, but is dreadful against the run. The other has potential as a run defender, but little as a pass rusher. We no longer have an every down DE. Further, while Brown was never a consistent pass rusher, I think he had more potential to play well if others played well. Even if Peppers is great, I am not sure either Anderson, or Idonije, elevate their play.

 

Inside I am really worried. So many seem to be pinning a lot of hopes on Harris, but I question why. Harris has been pretty weak the last couple years, and even his motivation has come into question. Hasn't he been a healthy scratch for a game each of the last two years? After him, the question marks are even greater. Harrison was hyped as a 1st round prospect who slipped due to character flags. Last year, he was all but handed the job, but cared so little he showed up to camp over weight and out of shape, and was held out of camp. Even when he got his conditioning right, he still showed little to nothing IMHO. Adams is always a nice and solid interior guy, but just does nothing in terms of pass rush. After these two, we have some kids who have yet to show they can even play at the NFL level.

 

We added a superior pass rusher in Peppers, but most everyone in the know will say you need multiple pass rushers to have a solid pass rushing DL, and after Peppers, I simply do not see where that 2nd, much less 3rd, pass rusher comes from.

 

I agree entirely. Anderson is going to have to step up, if he doesn't alot of people will be talking about Alex Brown after a few games. I wish we could have kept Alex, he was if nothing else solid, which I am not sure that we can say about Anderson yet.

 

Lots of questions at DT, with Harris a big question mark, Harrison showing little thus far, Idonije unproven, etc....it will be interesting.

 

[Daventry]

The ironic thing is, I have always argued how over-rated Alex Brown is. He usually ends up with 5 or so sacks, but does so in maybe 2 or 3 games where he plays great, but in the rest, he is a near non factor in terms of pass rush. He takes very wide angles and is easily pushed out of the play.

 

At the same time, he was a decent enough all around DE. He was solid against the run, and decent enough vs the pass that he at least had the potential to be a factor. Now I see us planning to go w/ 2 DEs. One has "potential" as a pass rusher based on a great rookie year and some flashes last year, but is dreadful against the run. The other has potential as a run defender, but little as a pass rusher. We no longer have an every down DE. Further, while Brown was never a consistent pass rusher, I think he had more potential to play well if others played well. Even if Peppers is great, I am not sure either Anderson, or Idonije, elevate their play.

 

Inside I am really worried. So many seem to be pinning a lot of hopes on Harris, but I question why. Harris has been pretty weak the last couple years, and even his motivation has come into question. Hasn't he been a healthy scratch for a game each of the last two years? After him, the question marks are even greater. Harrison was hyped as a 1st round prospect who slipped due to character flags. Last year, he was all but handed the job, but cared so little he showed up to camp over weight and out of shape, and was held out of camp. Even when he got his conditioning right, he still showed little to nothing IMHO. Adams is always a nice and solid interior guy, but just does nothing in terms of pass rush. After these two, we have some kids who have yet to show they can even play at the NFL level.

 

We added a superior pass rusher in Peppers, but most everyone in the know will say you need multiple pass rushers to have a solid pass rushing DL, and after Peppers, I simply do not see where that 2nd, much less 3rd, pass rusher comes from.

 

 

 

I never felt AB was overrated, I think most saw him for what he was, solid and occasionally exceptional. He was a guy that seldom made big mistakes, never had a character problem, and appeared to play hard. Pretty damn good if you ask me, but not quite Richard Dent... He would have been a good man to have opposite Peppers.

 

Inside we are clearly unproven. We might be surprised and see Harris come back as before and Harrison step up, with Adams playing a solid 3rd. Or we might see Harris basically suck, Harrison remain not much better, and Adams be solid, in which case the interior will not be that good. We will see....the drama goes on.

[nfoligno]

Every team has drama. We are no exception there.

 

Every team, and at most positions, has question marks. In discussing these units, for me it is more an issue of, do we have reason to believe?

 

Some disagree, but I will point to WR as an example. Is WR is set unit, or known strength? No. Only Martz and Drake will try to make that argument. But is there reason to believe these two units will be a solid or strong position this year. I would make that argument, yes.

 

At DL, I just don't see the reason for the expectations some have levied.

 

Anderson was a breakout stud as a rookie playing a situational role, but that was back in '06. Since then? Even if you move past what happened when he was thrown into the starting role, last year there were all sorts of hype due to Marinelli taking him under his wing. The result was a flash here and a flash there, but not a hole lot to get excited about. Hell, some fans didn't even think he would be back with the team.

 

Idonije is a player the team really wants us to believe can be a legit DE, but actions speak louder than words, and the actions of this staff has been to move Idonije all around. He is a nice backup/depth guy who can start in a pinch, but just not a guy you want to enter the season w/ as your starter. He is a plan B guy, not plan A.

 

Melton showed nothing even prior to the injury, and was raw to begin with. Now we have another rookie in the mix. Where is the reason for expections here?

 

And is it different at DT?

 

Harris was once talked about as an elite pass rushing DT, but that was some years ago as well. He was on fire the first half of 2007, but disappeared that year, and has been inconsistent "at best" since. Late last year he showed some flashes, but like Anderson, they were few and far between.

 

Harrison - This guy just pisses me off. He was all but given the starting job last year, and he basically failed to show up. If he cared, he would not have shown up in the shape he did. And even when his conditioning was right, he still failed to show off the talent he was supposed to have. This guy is a big reason why I am skeptical a bit about our rookie DE. I question anytime I hear about a player who had 1st round talent but fell for whatever reason in the draft. Rarely do those players exhibit the 1st round talent fans talk about.

 

Adams is a nice player, and I like him far more than our staff, but he is simply not a full time player in this system, and offers little pass rush ability.

 

Gilbert showed he can leap out of a pool, which was cool to see, but has yet to show he can play in the NFL.

 

I just have not seen much of a glimmer from these guys to even provide a reason for hope. Does that mean there is no hope? No. It just means I am skeptical. Even at OL, I see more reason for hope than at DL.