Reading between the lines

[AZ54]

Compliment for Martz while slamming Turner without calling him out...he should be in politics.

 

 

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http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/...tz-offense.html

 

Asked about Martz's notoriously extensive playbook, Forte said, "It's not intimidating, it's actually exciting. It's keep the defense on their heels. They're not going to know what we're going to do just by studying what formations we run our plays in or trying to (key) on our tendencies. They're not going to be able to pick up things easily."

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[Mongo3451]

Compliment for Martz while slamming Turner without calling him out...he should be in politics.

 

 

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http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/...tz-offense.html

 

Asked about Martz's notoriously extensive playbook, Forte said, "It's not intimidating, it's actually exciting. It's keep the defense on their heels. They're not going to know what we're going to do just by studying what formations we run our plays in or trying to (key) on our tendencies. They're not going to be able to pick up things easily."

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indeed

[defiantgiant]

Yeah, he kind of did the same thing with the o-line: he had some good stuff to say about Beekman possibly taking over at LG, but without explicitly getting a dig in at Omiyale. Very diplomatic.

[mancunian]

you never know when an ex-coach might become a current coach again

[bradjock]

Compliment for Martz while slamming Turner without calling him out...he should be in politics.

 

Asked about Martz's notoriously extensive playbook, Forte said, "It's not intimidating, it's actually exciting. It's keep the defense on their heels. They're not going to know what we're going to do just by studying what formations we run our plays in or trying to (key) on our tendencies. They're not going to be able to pick up things easily."

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Except Forte damn near won offensive ROY under play-calling. Why wasn't it so predictable then? You can't have it both ways.

[AZ54]

Except Forte damn near won offensive ROY under play-calling. Why wasn't it so predictable then? You can't have it both ways.

 

Maybe it was predictable it's just that Forte was a better player his first year. He certainly was in better shape his rookie year.

[defiantgiant]

Except Forte damn near won offensive ROY under play-calling. Why wasn't it so predictable then? You can't have it both ways.

It was predictable then. If you watch the games in 2008, it's obvious that like two-thirds of the plays were going to Forte, and you can see that defenses were keying in on him all over the place. He still got it done for the most part, but I don't think him being a candidate for OROY means that the playcalling wasn't predictable, or even that Forte was terribly effective. He had really pedestrian numbers on a per-play basis; the big total yardage numbers were more due to his massive workload. Between the run and the pass game, Forte got the ball 379 times - only Michael Turner and Adrian Peterson carried the load more than he did.

 

The way I see it, it's like this:

2008: Predictable playcalling + adequate run blocking=passable YPC. Passable YPC x giant workload=big season for Forte

2009: Predictable playcalling + horrible run blocking=bad YPC. Bad YPC x ordinary workload=disappointing season for Forte

 

I think Martz's playcalling and better play from the o-line (with Kreutz healthy, Pace gone, and Omiyale at his natural position) can help put Forte in many more favorable situations than he saw in 2008-2009. If that happens, I wouldn't be surprised to see him top 4.0 yards a tote in 2010. Even with the reduced carries due to Chester Taylor and Martz's offense in general, I could see Forte putting up 1000-1100 yards rushing. And given how much Martz likes to throw to the halfback, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Forte added another 500-600 yards in the receiving game. If all goes well in Martz's system, I think Forte should have no problem approaching his rookie year production without the back-breaking workload.

[jason]

It was predictable then. If you watch the games in 2008, it's obvious that like two-thirds of the plays were going to Forte, and you can see that defenses were keying in on him all over the place. He still got it done for the most part, but I don't think him being a candidate for OROY means that the playcalling wasn't predictable, or even that Forte was terribly effective. He had really pedestrian numbers on a per-play basis; the big total yardage numbers were more due to his massive workload. Between the run and the pass game, Forte got the ball 379 times - only Michael Turner and Adrian Peterson carried the load more than he did.

 

The way I see it, it's like this:

2008: Predictable playcalling + adequate run blocking=passable YPC. Passable YPC x giant workload=big season for Forte

2009: Predictable playcalling + horrible run blocking=bad YPC. Bad YPC x ordinary workload=disappointing season for Forte

I think Martz's playcalling and better play from the o-line (with Kreutz healthy, Pace gone, and Omiyale at his natural position) can help put Forte in many more favorable situations than he saw in 2008-2009. If that happens, I wouldn't be surprised to see him top 4.0 yards a tote in 2010. Even with the reduced carries due to Chester Taylor and Martz's offense in general, I could see Forte putting up 1000-1100 yards rushing. And given how much Martz likes to throw to the halfback, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Forte added another 500-600 yards in the receiving game. If all goes well in Martz's system, I think Forte should have no problem approaching his rookie year production without the back-breaking workload.

 

Completely agreed. It's ALL about the OL blocking.

[AZ54]

It was predictable then. If you watch the games in 2008, it's obvious that like two-thirds of the plays were going to Forte, and you can see that defenses were keying in on him all over the place. He still got it done for the most part, but I don't think him being a candidate for OROY means that the playcalling wasn't predictable, or even that Forte was terribly effective. He had really pedestrian numbers on a per-play basis; the big total yardage numbers were more due to his massive workload. Between the run and the pass game, Forte got the ball 379 times - only Michael Turner and Adrian Peterson carried the load more than he did.

 

The way I see it, it's like this:

2008: Predictable playcalling + adequate run blocking=passable YPC. Passable YPC x giant workload=big season for Forte

2009: Predictable playcalling + horrible run blocking=bad YPC. Bad YPC x ordinary workload=disappointing season for Forte

 

I think Martz's playcalling and better play from the o-line (with Kreutz healthy, Pace gone, and Omiyale at his natural position) can help put Forte in many more favorable situations than he saw in 2008-2009. If that happens, I wouldn't be surprised to see him top 4.0 yards a tote in 2010. Even with the reduced carries due to Chester Taylor and Martz's offense in general, I could see Forte putting up 1000-1100 yards rushing. And given how much Martz likes to throw to the halfback, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Forte added another 500-600 yards in the receiving game. If all goes well in Martz's system, I think Forte should have no problem approaching his rookie year production without the back-breaking workload.

 

 

I don't see Forte hitting 1000 yards rushing but he will have well over 1000 combine rushing/receiving.

 

 

[defiantgiant]

I don't see Forte hitting 1000 yards rushing but he will have well over 1000 combine rushing/receiving.

It's definitely a hopeful estimate, I know. But Forte's a good player. He's not Marshall Faulk or Frank Gore, but I'm still hopeful that he can break a thousand yards rushing in Martz's offense. If he gets about the same number of carries Faulk and Gore got, I think he's at least got a shot at it.

[lemonej]

It's definitely a hopeful estimate, I know. But Forte's a good player. He's not Marshall Faulk or Frank Gore, but I'm still hopeful that he can break a thousand yards rushing in Martz's offense. If he gets about the same number of carries Faulk and Gore got, I think he's at least got a shot at it.

DFG Forte averaging 62 and a half yards per game is a very realistic goal and IMO would be a little disappointing. If he stays healthy and does get spelled by Taylor both should stay fresh throughout the season.

[nfoligno]

I think the key reason why the expectation for Forte would not be as high has more to do w/ Taylor than Forte. We paid Taylor a nice chunk of money, and I doubt we did that so he can ride the pine, or even to just spell Forte here and there. While I do not think Taylor starts, I do see him getting a significant chunk of carries.

 

 

 

DFG Forte averaging 62 and a half yards per game is a very realistic goal and IMO would be a little disappointing. If he stays healthy and does get spelled by Taylor both should stay fresh throughout the season.

 

[defiantgiant]

I think the key reason why the expectation for Forte would not be as high has more to do w/ Taylor than Forte. We paid Taylor a nice chunk of money, and I doubt we did that so he can ride the pine, or even to just spell Forte here and there. While I do not think Taylor starts, I do see him getting a significant chunk of carries.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was worried about. If we hadn't signed Taylor, I'd be expecting Forte to break a thousand yards, even in Martz's offense. Taylor's the wild card. It's not just that he's getting paid a lot, you can look at what Martz has done in the past.

 

If you look at Martz's whole history as a playcaller, in an average season he'll call 372 running plays. He varies in either direction based on the talent he has at running back: at the extremes, he ran it 431 times when he had Faulk in his prime, versus 304 when he had a banged-up Kevin Jones. Before he got canned in San Francisco, he was on pace to call 370 runs - just about average for him. I'd expect Martz to call a career-average number of runs this season, everything else being equal.

 

In his history calling plays, Martz has given 23% of the carries to players other than the top 2 running backs (mostly QB and FB, but with some WR/TE rushes in there too.) In an average Martz season, that would leave 286 carries for the running backs to split. Frank Gore was on pace for 270 carries in what would have been a 370-carry season, but his backup was DeShaun Foster, who only got 6% of the workload. On the other hand, look at St. Louis in 2004: 381 rushing plays in total, but Steven Jackson got 35% of the rushes, and Faulk only toted the ball 195 times. Chester Taylor's not Steven Jackson, but he's not DeShaun Foster, either. And if he gets even a quarter of the total carries, that's only going to leave about 200 rushes for Forte.

[nfoligno]

Yea, at the end of the day, much will depend on whether we see the Forte we witnessed as a rookie, or the Forte of this past season. While the OL, playcalling and other "issues" hurt Forte, at the same time, I just never thought he was playing well. Some point to the injury, and that may be true, but I also look at his blocking, which his injury should not have been a factor. As a rookie, I remember talking about how solid he was as a blocker, but his second year? Frankly, he stunk. So I think much of the faulk w/ Forte's struggles were due to Forte.

 

Heading into 2010, it will be interesting to see which Forte we get. If we get the Forte of his rookie year, I think he could hit near 1,000 yards, but even then, it may be difficult to reach due to how much Martz likes to throw and how much we are likely to rotate RBs. If we see the Forte of 2009, his touches could dramatically drop.

 

Yeah, this is exactly what I was worried about. If we hadn't signed Taylor, I'd be expecting Forte to break a thousand yards, even in Martz's offense. Taylor's the wild card. It's not just that he's getting paid a lot, you can look at what Martz has done in the past.

 

If you look at Martz's whole history as a playcaller, in an average season he'll call 372 running plays. He varies in either direction based on the talent he has at running back: at the extremes, he ran it 431 times when he had Faulk in his prime, versus 304 when he had a banged-up Kevin Jones. Before he got canned in San Francisco, he was on pace to call 370 runs - just about average for him. I'd expect Martz to call a career-average number of runs this season, everything else being equal.

 

In his history calling plays, Martz has given 23% of the carries to players other than the top 2 running backs (mostly QB and FB, but with some WR/TE rushes in there too.) In an average Martz season, that would leave 286 carries for the running backs to split. Frank Gore was on pace for 270 carries in what would have been a 370-carry season, but his backup was DeShaun Foster, who only got 6% of the workload. On the other hand, look at St. Louis in 2004: 381 rushing plays in total, but Steven Jackson got 35% of the rushes, and Faulk only toted the ball 195 times. Chester Taylor's not Steven Jackson, but he's not DeShaun Foster, either. And if he gets even a quarter of the total carries, that's only going to leave about 200 rushes for Forte.

 

[AZ54]

Yeah, this is exactly what I was worried about. If we hadn't signed Taylor, I'd be expecting Forte to break a thousand yards, even in Martz's offense. Taylor's the wild card. It's not just that he's getting paid a lot, you can look at what Martz has done in the past.

 

If you look at Martz's whole history as a playcaller, in an average season he'll call 372 running plays. He varies in either direction based on the talent he has at running back: at the extremes, he ran it 431 times when he had Faulk in his prime, versus 304 when he had a banged-up Kevin Jones. Before he got canned in San Francisco, he was on pace to call 370 runs - just about average for him. I'd expect Martz to call a career-average number of runs this season, everything else being equal.

 

In his history calling plays, Martz has given 23% of the carries to players other than the top 2 running backs (mostly QB and FB, but with some WR/TE rushes in there too.) In an average Martz season, that would leave 286 carries for the running backs to split. Frank Gore was on pace for 270 carries in what would have been a 370-carry season, but his backup was DeShaun Foster, who only got 6% of the workload. On the other hand, look at St. Louis in 2004: 381 rushing plays in total, but Steven Jackson got 35% of the rushes, and Faulk only toted the ball 195 times. Chester Taylor's not Steven Jackson, but he's not DeShaun Foster, either. And if he gets even a quarter of the total carries, that's only going to leave about 200 rushes for Forte.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking...he just won't get enough carries to hit 1000 yards rushing. You just did a great job putting together the numbers to back up my gut feeling. What I like best about our RB tandem is that both are good catching the ball out of the backfield as they are running. It will help with the variety in play calling from the same formation regardless of personnel.