The Bears Need Some New Team Doctors

[madlithuanian]

Again, you state much of what I'm trying to say far more eloquently than myslef...

 

Just to throw out there, this is not the first time our medical staff has been questioned. I questioned our medical staff long before these recent events, so I am not just "bitching" about the loss of a 2nd rounder. Frankly, when it comes to Adams, my "bitch" is that we gave up a 2nd round pick for a player who was declared a bust by his (at the time) current team and who was likely to be released at the end of the season. Considing how cheap it has been to obtain players this offseason, I bet Adams could have been had (if he were not cut) for a 5th round pick, if that.

 

No, I have questioned our medical staff in the past for other reason. It may be Angelo flat out ignoring the opinion of the medical staff, but I have also wondered how strongly the medical staff warns/informs Angelo of players injury history. Further, we have seen several cases of players who came back from injury too soon, only to immediately go down again but for a longer period of time. Before a player returns from injury, they have to get approval from the medical staff. Then there are times like when R.Brown was playing with one arm (his statement after the season). Could the doctors not see this?

 

No, I have questioned our medical staff long before these recent issues. I know FAR too little about heart issues to really know whether our medical staff missed something that should have been seen, whether they saw it but didn't think it was enough of an issue to fear or whether our doctors saw it and told Angelo but he disregarded it. Thus I have not attacked our doctors much for Adams, or now Freeman. But I have questioned our medical staff over the years for other issues, so I personally am not simply bitching about them specific to Adams.

 

[LT2_3]

Just to throw out there, this is not the first time our medical staff has been questioned. I questioned our medical staff long before these recent events, so I am not just "bitching" about the loss of a 2nd rounder. Frankly, when it comes to Adams, my "bitch" is that we gave up a 2nd round pick for a player who was declared a bust by his (at the time) current team and who was likely to be released at the end of the season. Considing how cheap it has been to obtain players this offseason, I bet Adams could have been had (if he were not cut) for a 5th round pick, if that.

 

I hear ya there, but I had higher hopes for him.

 

No, I have questioned our medical staff in the past for other reason. It may be Angelo flat out ignoring the opinion of the medical staff, but I have also wondered how strongly the medical staff warns/informs Angelo of players injury history. Further, we have seen several cases of players who came back from injury too soon, only to immediately go down again but for a longer period of time. Before a player returns from injury, they have to get approval from the medical staff. Then there are times like when R.Brown was playing with one arm (his statement after the season). Could the doctors not see this?

 

When it comes to players returning to the field, you have to realize that the trainers have to go by what the players tell them about what they feel. These "toughed-it-out" stories play much better after a SB win. I'm not sure I can put ALL of that on the medical staff when all they do is advise. I have a feeling that if they were more assertive, they might not stay employed. (just had a thought of House as the team doctor. )

 

No, I have questioned our medical staff long before these recent issues. I know FAR too little about heart issues to really know whether our medical staff missed something that should have been seen, whether they saw it but didn't think it was enough of an issue to fear or whether our doctors saw it and told Angelo but he disregarded it. Thus I have not attacked our doctors much for Adams, or now Freeman. But I have questioned our medical staff over the years for other issues, so I personally am not simply bitching about them specific to Adams.

 

Ok so we've kind of exonerated them for Adams. Let's talk about the other ones.

 

Chris Williams - My understanding was that all teams had pretty much the same risk factors assigned to him, but the teams that took him off their board hadn't needed an OT that high. I think the Bears interest was a matter of need. Sure, they would have taken Long or Clady if they were there, but they liked him with his injury risk better than Cherilus, Otah, Baker, or Albert. It looked bad his first season, but since his surgery, it doesn't look so bad now.

 

Who else? Mike Brown? He was injured here, and played a full 16 games for KC?

 

Who else falls in this catagory?

[nfoligno]

When it comes to players returning to the field, you have to realize that the trainers have to go by what the players tell them about what they feel. These "toughed-it-out" stories play much better after a SB win. I'm not sure I can put ALL of that on the medical staff when all they do is advise. I have a feeling that if they were more assertive, they might not stay employed. (just had a thought of House as the team doctor. )

 

Sure, there are times when a player can simply lie to a doctor/coach. No argument. But doctors so often can see the way a player moves/performs and realize he isn't as right as he may want to make out.

 

Look, I am not totally ignorant. I realize this happens all around and with all teams. If you look, you can find examples anywhere. For me, it is simply something I have felt for a while now. When it happens once or twice, you write it off. But when it just seems to happen pretty often or regular, you start to take more notice and look more into the reasons.

 

I have said all along that it may not be the medical staff. It may be simply an issue of coaches who don't care about the health of players. Or maybe it is players who fear the loss of their spots so much they would rather give it the old college try. I am not saying it is the doctors, but have for a while put out there the question and wondered if they were part of the problem.

 

Ok so we've kind of exonerated them for Adams. Let's talk about the other ones.

 

Exonerated? I may not go that far. For me, it was just never so much an issue. For me, Angelo screwed the pooch. Adams was a bust and Angelo gave up a 2nd for him, and did so when we lacked a 1st. That was a horrible move, regardless of the medical issues that came about later.

 

Chris Williams - My understanding was that all teams had pretty much the same risk factors assigned to him, but the teams that took him off their board hadn't needed an OT that high. I think the Bears interest was a matter of need. Sure, they would have taken Long or Clady if they were there, but they liked him with his injury risk better than Cherilus, Otah, Baker, or Albert. It looked bad his first season, but since his surgery, it doesn't look so bad now.

 

We understand differently then. Two teams I seem to recall being tied to the "taken off their draft board" stories were Denver and Houston. For Denver, it may not have mattered as they liked Clady more, but as the story said (based on my memory) if Clady was not there, they would not have taken Williams due to the medical concerns. Houston was another OL needy team that was reported to have taken Williams off their board. I want to say Carolina was in this group too, but recall that one less than the other two.

 

Who else? Mike Brown? He was injured here, and played a full 16 games for KC?

 

Who else falls in this catagory?

 

Um, which category? Player who we drafted despite injury red flags which caused other teams to avoid the player? Player who continued to play, despite injury, only to go down again? Or players who didn't seem capable of being healthy for us, only to find a fountain of health for another team? Which category are you talking about?

 

You mention Mike Brown. The only category I think he would fit would be the last. No health with the bears but health w/ another team. Columbo would seem to fit that category. Mike Gandy was always hurt with us but found health elsewhere. I believe Rex Tucker the same.

 

If you mean players who returned too soon from injury, the first that comes to mind, likely as it is so recent, is Pisa. Trying to think of who, but I recall a few players who tried to come back from high ankle sprains and muscle pulls too soon, only to immediately go down and make matters worse.

 

If you mean drafting players with injury related red flags, come on. Do I really need to give a list. That is something we have done often.

 

Look. Again. I am not saying the problem IS the medical staff. But I will say this. I do not believe this team has done a good job when it comes to (a) factoring injury history and risk when signing/drafting players ( preventative care or © injury treatment. It is possible we have the best medical staff in the game, but a combination of players, GM, scouts and coaches just make them look bad. It is also possible our medical staff is simply not doing a very good job.

['TD']

There's also issues of them trying to get players back on the field too soon. They tried to get Benson play before he was ready, but he could tell he wasn't healed right.

[jason]

Just to throw out there, this is not the first time our medical staff has been questioned. I questioned our medical staff long before these recent events, so I am not just "bitching" about the loss of a 2nd rounder. Frankly, when it comes to Adams, my "bitch" is that we gave up a 2nd round pick for a player who was declared a bust by his (at the time) current team and who was likely to be released at the end of the season. Considing how cheap it has been to obtain players this offseason, I bet Adams could have been had (if he were not cut) for a 5th round pick, if that.

 

No, I have questioned our medical staff in the past for other reason. It may be Angelo flat out ignoring the opinion of the medical staff, but I have also wondered how strongly the medical staff warns/informs Angelo of players injury history. Further, we have seen several cases of players who came back from injury too soon, only to immediately go down again but for a longer period of time. Before a player returns from injury, they have to get approval from the medical staff. Then there are times like when R.Brown was playing with one arm (his statement after the season). Could the doctors not see this?

 

No, I have questioned our medical staff long before these recent issues. I know FAR too little about heart issues to really know whether our medical staff missed something that should have been seen, whether they saw it but didn't think it was enough of an issue to fear or whether our doctors saw it and told Angelo but he disregarded it. Thus I have not attacked our doctors much for Adams, or now Freeman. But I have questioned our medical staff over the years for other issues, so I personally am not simply bitching about them specific to Adams.

 

Completely agreed. Too many injuries, too many questionable starts...something just isn't right. It may not apply to the combine and the enlarged heart/valve issue, but there is definitely a pattern of sorts.

[defiantgiant]

That's a load of crap. This is a case of people bitching because they feel like it whether there is cause or not.

 

Face it, people are still pissed that we didn't have a 2nd rounder. I am too. However, that doesn't mean that I'm willing to accuse people of being incompetent willy nilly when we simply don't have the facts.

 

C'mon. The Bears doctors didn't even give the tests at the combine. Why are we even talking about them?

OK, this is the last thing I'll say on the subject. I'm not "pissed that we didn't have a 2nd rounder." The team not having a draft pick seems pretty unimportant when we're talking about a young man who died and another one who could have if the Colts' doctors hadn't caught his condition. The reason that I made the thread is that I'm kind of alarmed that the Bears' doctors, whoever they are, seem to have a pattern of either missing or ignoring serious medical conditions. That worries me.

[LT2_3]

OK, this is the last thing I'll say on the subject. I'm not "pissed that we didn't have a 2nd rounder." The team not having a draft pick seems pretty unimportant when we're talking about a young man who died and another one who could have if the Colts' doctors hadn't caught his condition. The reason that I made the thread is that I'm kind of alarmed that the Bears' doctors, whoever they are, seem to have a pattern of either missing or ignoring serious medical conditions. That worries me.

 

Fair enough. I'm just curious if you believe that it's the job of the Bears' doctors to give players healthcare beyond treating their injuries or whether they should be talking to the players about potential conditions instead of the people paying them - the team.

 

See, I'm seriously curious about the role that the Bears' doctors play. I think the Bears (more or less) pay the Doctors as technicians to run tests and report and interpret the results. They have to be Doctors to be qualified to do that, but I don't think that they are paid to go over results with the players. I think it's matter of what they are supposed to be doing.

 

I'm going to use another computer repair analogy here, but don't intend to imply a similar level of overall importance, but simply as an example of different types of contractual situations.

 

If a company hires me to come in and run a series of tests on all their PCs, I would do that on pre-negotiated per PC basis, run the tests, hand over the results, and leave. If they want me to diagnose further or try to fix any issues found, they would have to pay me more money. If a company hires me to keep all their PCs running and make me responsible for the proper functioning of each PC, then it encourages me to troubleshoot issues before they become more damaging problems.

 

So, in the case of Adams, he had an enlarged heart that, from what I read at the time, would have required an echo-cardiogram which is a non-standard test that they only run if other factors suggest it.

 

The NFL's medical committee is discussing giving players echocardiograms following the death this month of Bears defensive end Gaines Adams.

 

Adams died of an enlarged heart, something an echocardiogram can detect. NFL teams already give extensive physicals to players. Stress testing and echocardiograms are conducted when the results of the physical, an EKG and family history indicate the need.

 

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/mt-se...ms&limit=20

 

Now, we have the case of Freeman, he had an abnormal EKG at the combine at least one time. What we don't know is if it went back to normal in subsequent tests. Now what we read from the article you posted...

 

But the linebacker from Ohio State, the Bears' fifth-round pick a year ago, also couldn't imagine an enlarged heart valve in his left ventricle ending his football career.......

 

....... that after a battery of stress tests and an MRI on his heart the Colts determined it wasn't safe for him to continue playing.......

 

........ The Bears released Freeman at the end of the preseason, and he had stints on practice squads for the Bills and Texans. ........

 

........ Colts doctors told Freeman he wouldn't pass an NFL physical less than a year after he was given two EKGs at the scouting combine, information that was available to all NFL teams.

 

"They had found my heart had come back abnormal at the combine and they redid (the EKG)," Freeman said. "After I took it again, nothing was said about it and we moved on. I don't know if it was (enlarged) then or if it happened in the recent year or what.......

 

........... The Bills and Texans also never mentioned his heart."

 

So the time line is:

 

Takes 2 EKGs at the combine

 

Passes Bears, Bills, and Texans physicals that should have in theory included further testing IF "an EKG and family history indicate the need."

 

Takes a physical with the Colts, further testing was indicated, and they found his problem.

 

I don't see the Bears doing things any differently than any other team.

 

 

[lemonej]

Just asking but. have any of you had a friend that went through athletic training in college with the idea of trying to become a profressional trainer? I have and I believe that that this staff may have one head doctor but the rest may be guys who are just glorified trainers who may not be medical doctors. This is just my opinion and I have no facts to back this up.

[LT2_3]

Just asking but. have any of you had a friend that went through athletic training in college with the idea of trying to become a profressional trainer? I have and I believe that that this staff may have one head doctor but the rest may be guys who are just glorified trainers who may not be medical doctors. This is just my opinion and I have no facts to back this up.

 

That's an excellent point.

 

When it comes to players getting back on the field too soon, I have to wonder whether an actual doctor makes that call and how much influence the coaches have over the decisions if they are only trainers in most cases.