Martz's Offense

[defiantgiant]

So here's an interesting article breaking down Martz's tendencies as a playcaller in every season he's coached. It breaks down everything from the big issues (how many receptions went to each receiver, the carry split between the #1 and #2 RBs, what percentage of pass attempts ended in sacks or interceptions, etc.) to the really minute ones (like percentage of QB runs and TE end-arounds, stuff like that.) Then the writer makes a couple of predictions about the Bears, although he's careful to point out that we won't know much until after training camp/OTAs. It's kind of interesting.

 

The one thing that jumped out at me is this: I was very against moving Hester to the slot like Martz talked about, since I think he's our best receiver right now. What I didn't know was just how much Martz tends to feed the ball to his slot receivers, especially when he doesn't have a dominant #1 wideout to work with. In 2007, for example, Shaun McDonald and Mike Furrey were his slot guys - they racked up 140 catches between them. Hester moving to the slot could be great news for him...judging from Martz's history, he could potentially get more attention in the passing game than the guys lined up on the outside. If Hester stays on the outside (like Lovie has said he will,) then Earl Bennett or Juaquin Iglesias or whoever could be looking at a lot of targets lining up in the slot.

[Boston Boxer]

i would absolutely put Bennett and Aromashadu (sp?) on the outside and put Hester in the slot...he is like Wes Welker with a quick burst and works well in open space. He might be our best WR (debatable) but he would be better used in the slot

[jason]

Hester is perfect for the slot, and just about all of the others would benefit from the move.

[defiantgiant]

Hester is perfect for the slot, and just about all of the others would benefit from the move.

Hester could be a dangerous slot receiver if he can clean up his route running over the middle. He's certainly got the suddenness and agility that you like to see in a slot guy, but last season he was WAY better running outside-the-numbers stuff than he was going over the middle. When I watched Hester, I saw him run really nice deep outs, skinny posts, flag routes, hitch-and-gos...really all the down-the-sideline routes. He could usually separate on shorter outside routes (like hitches and curls) too, but that could be more due to his speed (I saw more than one corner playing off of him and bailing early) than to really precise route-running.

 

When I saw Hester struggling, though, he was usually running a cross or a slant - routes that slot receivers have to be great at. I don't know what it was, but he couldn't seem to run those routes cleanly in traffic: he'd be at the wrong depth, in the wrong spot, he'd get tangled up with the defenders or the ref...whenever I saw him go over the middle, even if he made the play, his route wasn't pretty. If Martz can get Hester to run slants and drags as well as he ran his deep routes in 2009, he could be an exceptional slot guy and create some real mismatches for defenses.

[lemonej]

Hester could be a dangerous slot receiver if he can clean up his route running over the middle. He's certainly got the suddenness and agility that you like to see in a slot guy, but last season he was WAY better running outside-the-numbers stuff than he was going over the middle. When I watched Hester, I saw him run really nice deep outs, skinny posts, flag routes, hitch-and-gos...really all the down-the-sideline routes. He could usually separate on shorter outside routes (like hitches and curls) too, but that could be more due to his speed (I saw more than one corner playing off of him and bailing early) than to really precise route-running.

 

When I saw Hester struggling, though, he was usually running a cross or a slant - routes that slot receivers have to be great at. I don't know what it was, but he couldn't seem to run those routes cleanly in traffic: he'd be at the wrong depth, in the wrong spot, he'd get tangled up with the defenders or the ref...whenever I saw him go over the middle, even if he made the play, his route wasn't pretty. If Martz can get Hester to run slants and drags as well as he ran his deep routes in 2009, he could be an exceptional slot guy and create some real mismatches for defenses.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Thats what the object of putting him in the slot would be to try and create mismatches and to possibly tip off the coverage. IMO Hester's inside route running was poor due to him trying to avoid contact. I think it started on punt returns and seems to affect that part of his route running. We all remember when Hester was fearless and would do whatever to try and make a big return but, now we don't see that same daredevil on returns or slants. I also think that from the slot that screen play would be more effective.

[defiantgiant]

Ding! Ding! Ding! Thats what the object of putting him in the slot would be to try and create mismatches and to possibly tip off the coverage.

Yeah, when I was against the idea of moving Hester to the slot full-time, it was mainly because he's our best receiver and I thought it'd take snaps away from him. The slot receiver certainly played a smaller role in Turner's offense than the flanker, and it doesn't make sense to take the ball away from our best wideout. In Martz's offense, though, it looks like Hester could get a lot MORE opportunities in the slot. Shaun McDonald got 127 passes thrown his way as the slot receiver in 2007. Mike Furrey got 146 thrown his way in 2006 in basically the same role. Hester did good things on only 91 passes this season; he could break out in a big way if he gets the kind of workload Martz has given to his slot guys in the past.

 

IMO Hester's inside route running was poor due to him trying to avoid contact. I think it started on punt returns and seems to affect that part of his route running. We all remember when Hester was fearless and would do whatever to try and make a big return but, now we don't see that same daredevil on returns or slants.

Yeah, you might be right about that. I also just think he's been an open-field guy for his whole career, and he's used to having more room to work. When you look at him on returns back in the day, he was setting defenders up to miss from fifteen, sometimes twenty yards away. It seems like he's struggled learning to do the same thing in close quarters.

 

I also think that from the slot that screen play would be more effective.

I mean, it couldn't possibly be less effective, right? I blame Ron Turner for that one. Everybody in the world knew that screen was coming every time he dialed it up. I have nothing against screens per se, and a quick shifty guy like Hester is exactly who you want to run them, unless he's getting mugged the instant he makes the catch. Hopefully Martz actually knows how to disguise a play (or even just run it out of more than one formation) so we can start getting some mileage out of the screens to Hester.

[nfoligno]

The WR I am pretty curious about is Knox. Assuming, as many do, that DA and Bennett start on the outside, and Hester in the slot, how does Knox fit in. I do not think Knox would challenge Bennett, as the two play very different WR roles. That means Knox would be more likely to battle DA or Hester.

 

I think DA has the advantage over Knox on the outside. I think DA simply has more all around game, taking advantge of both size and speed, while Knox seems a bit more like a one trick pony. I actually thought Knox might look good, particularly in Martz system, in the slot, but is he going to really take snaps away from Hester?

 

I also really want to see what Iglesias does this year. I still believe he has a lot more ability than what we saw his rookie year, and would not be surprised if he ends up replacing Bennett at some point. Similar skills, but simply a higher ceiling IMHO.

 

Yeah, when I was against the idea of moving Hester to the slot full-time, it was mainly because he's our best receiver and I thought it'd take snaps away from him. The slot receiver certainly played a smaller role in Turner's offense than the flanker, and it doesn't make sense to take the ball away from our best wideout. In Martz's offense, though, it looks like Hester could get a lot MORE opportunities in the slot. Shaun McDonald got 127 passes thrown his way as the slot receiver in 2007. Mike Furrey got 146 thrown his way in 2006 in basically the same role. Hester did good things on only 91 passes this season; he could break out in a big way if he gets the kind of workload Martz has given to his slot guys in the past.

 

 

Yeah, you might be right about that. I also just think he's been an open-field guy for his whole career, and he's used to having more room to work. When you look at him on returns back in the day, he was setting defenders up to miss from fifteen, sometimes twenty yards away. It seems like he's struggled learning to do the same thing in close quarters.

 

 

I mean, it couldn't possibly be less effective, right? I blame Ron Turner for that one. Everybody in the world knew that screen was coming every time he dialed it up. I have nothing against screens per se, and a quick shifty guy like Hester is exactly who you want to run them, unless he's getting mugged the instant he makes the catch. Hopefully Martz actually knows how to disguise a play (or even just run it out of more than one formation) so we can start getting some mileage out of the screens to Hester.

 

[defiantgiant]

The WR I am pretty curious about is Knox. Assuming, as many do, that DA and Bennett start on the outside, and Hester in the slot, how does Knox fit in.

I think Aromashodu's a huge question mark. He had a great game against Minnesota (going against a significantly injured Antoine Winfield) and a solid game against Green Bay, but he wasn't very effective against the Lions or the Ravens, two teams with VERY beatable secondaries. He's clearly got a lot of ability, but he needs to demonstrate way more consistency before he can be counted on as a starter. I think Darryl Drake nailed it: he basically said that talent-wise, there's no limit to how good Aromashodu can be, but he still needs to work on consistently playing up to his talent. If he can do that, the Bears could have a poor man's Miles Austin on their hands, but whether he can do it is anybody's guess at this point.

 

I do not think Knox would challenge Bennett, as the two play very different WR roles. That means Knox would be more likely to battle DA or Hester.

I could actually see Knox rotating with Bennett at split end like he did last season. Since they bring such different skills to the table, it makes a lot of sense to have situational packages that swap one out for the other. It could be a matchup-based rotation, too - if a team's playing a slower corner on Bennett, you rotate Knox in and force them to adjust.

 

As for the slot, Martz's offense goes 4-wide a lot, and I could see a lot of interesting roles for Knox in those situations. You could line Knox up at SE for those sets, then move Bennett into the slot with Hester, since Bennett is pretty well suited to work those short and intermediate routes over the middle. On the other hand, you could leave Bennett alone and have Knox and Hester be your slot receivers, hoping to get one of them matched up on a safety on a deep route.

[nfoligno]

I think Aromashodu's a huge question mark. He had a great game against Minnesota (going against a significantly injured Antoine Winfield) and a solid game against Green Bay, but he wasn't very effective against the Lions or the Ravens, two teams with VERY beatable secondaries.

Against Det, I would point out that he had 5 catches, tied for the lead w/ Olsen, who was having a huge game. I actually thought he had a very solid game against Det. He didn't play great against Baltimore, but don't just call him out. The whole team was awful as Baltimore's D had their way with our offense. Our only score points in the game was due to special teams (punt return). Cutler had 3 picks and Hanie 1, as each had a QB rating below 10. Forte was running in mud, and the offense was just bad. DA was part of that, but don't just call him out.

 

He's clearly got a lot of ability, but he needs to demonstrate way more consistency before he can be counted on as a starter. I think Darryl Drake nailed it: he basically said that talent-wise, there's no limit to how good Aromashodu can be, but he still needs to work on consistently playing up to his talent. If he can do that, the Bears could have a poor man's Miles Austin on their hands, but whether he can do it is anybody's guess at this point.

 

I do agree here though. Does DA have ability and talent? Yes. Does he need to bring more consistency to his game? Yes. But so does every one of our WRs. DA is no different. At the end of the day though, DA did more in his 4 games than any other WR for us. Yes, he needs to do that over a 16 game season, but I think there is enough evidence at the end of the season to have elevated expectations.

 

To me, the argument for DA is similar to how we talk about Chris Williams, who finished the year looking very solid at LT. Does that mean he is a lock to be a solid or better LT heading into 2010? No. But there is reason to have such an expectation.

 

I could actually see Knox rotating with Bennett at split end like he did last season. Since they bring such different skills to the table, it makes a lot of sense to have situational packages that swap one out for the other. It could be a matchup-based rotation, too - if a team's playing a slower corner on Bennett, you rotate Knox in and force them to adjust.

 

No question Knox will rotate in. My only question is, what if he is good enough to be more than a situational or rotational player? What if both Knox and DA step up. I am not sure I can see the two playing in the base package as starters. Frankly, it may depend a lot on Hester and the OL too. Traditionally, we need to have one starter who is a possession WR, but if Hester can provide that consistent under threat (slants) and the OL can sustain blocks better, maybe we can better afford to not have a possession WR on the field and go with more speed on the outside.

 

As for the slot, Martz's offense goes 4-wide a lot, and I could see a lot of interesting roles for Knox in those situations. You could line Knox up at SE for those sets, then move Bennett into the slot with Hester, since Bennett is pretty well suited to work those short and intermediate routes over the middle. On the other hand, you could leave Bennett alone and have Knox and Hester be your slot receivers, hoping to get one of them matched up on a safety on a deep route.

 

This will be something to watch this year. While it is true Martz has often used 4 WR sets, at the same time, he has never before utilized the TE as a receiver, which he swears up and down will happen this year. If he really does utilize Olsen, I am not sure how often we see 4 WR sets, at least not with 4 actual WR.

[AZ54]

We know Martz really likes Knox's athleticism but who starts is going to depend on who learns to run the routes the right way. It's quite possible our starting receiving corps changes during the course of the season. I think Hester is a given for the slot role. On the outside it could be DA, Knox, Bennett but if any one of those three struggles learning the offense it will open the door for Iglesias. While the first three all have some experience over Iglesias I am not sure they are that much more talented that they deserve the starting role over him. I am leaving Rashied Davis out of the discussion on purpose.

[defiantgiant]

I am leaving Rashied Davis out of the discussion on purpose.

All right, I think there's one thing we can all agree on here.

[nfoligno]

I am a big supporter of Iglesias, but I am not sure I would say he is equal in talent to all the rest, or at least, I would say he has some very different skill sets. Iglesias is more of a possession receiver, or maybe you could say possession plus receiver. To use the player so often used as a base for comparison, he is similar in many respects to Engram. While he is a bit faster (40 speed) than Engram, it was that 40 speed which really reduced his draft grade. He does has burst and quickness though, so he can get open, but it would not be a shock if he is run down from behind on a long catch.

 

Iglesias is similar somewhat to Bennett, though I think Iglesias has more quickness and speed.

 

Iglesias doesn't really compare though to Knox or DA. Both have more speed than Iglesias, and thus downfield, big play ability. DA also has better size. It may only be 2 inches, but DA also plays big as he does a good job going up for the ball.

 

Anyway, I too am very high on Iglesias. I think he was "developed" as a rookie the same way Bennett was. Now that we have changed schemes, and to one i think really fits Iglesias, I can see him stepping up. But it is Bennett who I think he would push, and not really DA or Knox.

 

Between DA and Knox, I think the edge right now goes to DA, and not simply due to the way he finished the year. Knox was a rookie, and he was developed different than other rookie WRs. He was given a very limited portion of the playbook to learn, and it worked out well. Now he will be asked to learn much more though, and while I am not saying it isn't possible, DA is more developed and I think has a leg up here. I also wonder about Knox's size. 6' is not the problem, but 185lbs is pretty light. I hope to see Rusty and Co. work with him to add some weight w/o zapping his speed.

 

 

 

We know Martz really likes Knox's athleticism but who starts is going to depend on who learns to run the routes the right way. It's quite possible our starting receiving corps changes during the course of the season. I think Hester is a given for the slot role. On the outside it could be DA, Knox, Bennett but if any one of those three struggles learning the offense it will open the door for Iglesias. While the first three all have some experience over Iglesias I am not sure they are that much more talented that they deserve the starting role over him. I am leaving Rashied Davis out of the discussion on purpose.

 

[defiantgiant]

I am a big supporter of Iglesias, but I am not sure I would say he is equal in talent to all the rest, or at least, I would say he has some very different skill sets. Iglesias is more of a possession receiver, or maybe you could say possession plus receiver. To use the player so often used as a base for comparison, he is similar in many respects to Engram. While he is a bit faster (40 speed) than Engram, it was that 40 speed which really reduced his draft grade. He does has burst and quickness though, so he can get open, but it would not be a shock if he is run down from behind on a long catch.

Yeah, my worry with Iglesias is that, like Engram, he seems like he's tailor-made for a West Coast offense. From what I saw of Iglesias in college, he made up for less-than-great speed with nice routes and cuts, pretty reliable hands, and good running after the catch; a guy like that can be a featured receiver in a WCO, but I don't know if he can in Martz's system. I think there's a reason that Martz has been gushing about Hester/Knox/Aromashodu and hasn't said much about Bennett or Iglesias: he's traditionally had the most success with deep-threat receivers like Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt. The kinds of plays that Iglesias can make in the passing game, I think Martz might ask Forte and Taylor to handle those for the most part. I'll be interested to see how this whole thing plays out for Bennett and Iglesias compared to Hester, Knox, and DA.

[nfoligno]

One thing I remember from Martz' offense was Holt running loads of slant routes, and I don't mean deep ones. Yes, he could fly, but I just recall him running tons of quick slants. I remember one of the keys to stopping this offense was to jam the WR at the LOS, than use LBs over the middle to make any WR making the catch pay dearly. Point is, I would think Iglesias would fit very well into this role.

 

Iglesias lacks the straight line speed, and thus is not going to be a deep threat, but at the same time (based on college) he is a precise route runner with GREAT hands (he was considered to have maybe the best hands in the draft class). He has quickness more than speed, but that combo of quickness/burst and route running can get him open in a hurry.

 

To me, this would seem like a good fit for Martz. Martz likes to throw the ball to where the WR should be in order to elevate the YAC, and sending Iglesias on slant routes would seem a solid fit.

 

 

 

Yeah, my worry with Iglesias is that, like Engram, he seems like he's tailor-made for a West Coast offense. From what I saw of Iglesias in college, he made up for less-than-great speed with nice routes and cuts, pretty reliable hands, and good running after the catch; a guy like that can be a featured receiver in a WCO, but I don't know if he can in Martz's system. I think there's a reason that Martz has been gushing about Hester/Knox/Aromashodu and hasn't said much about Bennett or Iglesias: he's traditionally had the most success with deep-threat receivers like Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt. The kinds of plays that Iglesias can make in the passing game, I think Martz might ask Forte and Taylor to handle those for the most part. I'll be interested to see how this whole thing plays out for Bennett and Iglesias compared to Hester, Knox, and DA.

 

[Pixote]

To me, this would seem like a good fit for Martz. Martz likes to throw the ball to where the WR should be in order to elevate the YAC, and sending Iglesias on slant routes would seem a solid fit.

 

Doesn't all offensive schemes try and do this? I do not think throwing the ball to where the receiver is suppose to be is unique to any one particular offensive scheme.

[AZ54]

I am a big supporter of Iglesias, but I am not sure I would say he is equal in talent to all the rest, or at least, I would say he has some very different skill sets. Iglesias is more of a possession receiver, or maybe you could say possession plus receiver. To use the player so often used as a base for comparison, he is similar in many respects to Engram. While he is a bit faster (40 speed) than Engram, it was that 40 speed which really reduced his draft grade. He does has burst and quickness though, so he can get open, but it would not be a shock if he is run down from behind on a long catch.

 

Iglesias is similar somewhat to Bennett, though I think Iglesias has more quickness and speed.

 

Iglesias doesn't really compare though to Knox or DA. Both have more speed than Iglesias, and thus downfield, big play ability. DA also has better size. It may only be 2 inches, but DA also plays big as he does a good job going up for the ball.

 

Anyway, I too am very high on Iglesias. I think he was "developed" as a rookie the same way Bennett was. Now that we have changed schemes, and to one i think really fits Iglesias, I can see him stepping up. But it is Bennett who I think he would push, and not really DA or Knox.

 

Between DA and Knox, I think the edge right now goes to DA, and not simply due to the way he finished the year. Knox was a rookie, and he was developed different than other rookie WRs. He was given a very limited portion of the playbook to learn, and it worked out well. Now he will be asked to learn much more though, and while I am not saying it isn't possible, DA is more developed and I think has a leg up here. I also wonder about Knox's size. 6' is not the problem, but 185lbs is pretty light. I hope to see Rusty and Co. work with him to add some weight w/o zapping his speed.

 

I totally agree there are different levels of athleticism and Iglesias is not at the top among our WRs. However, when I said talent I was trying to consider all the aspects of being a WR. Certainly Knox, Bennett, DA have a leg up on Iglesias in terms of playing time last year but as compared to Knox or DA I think Iglesias is a more polished WR with more reliable hands. It seems it was preordained that we wouldn't see Iglesias much last year as he was forced to do what Bennett did while Knox was given a very limited route package. As you said, Iglesias is a better route runner than Knox and DA and given the need to learn a new offense and Martz' demand for the WR to be in the right spot all the time I can't rule out Iglesias winning a job. Would Martz prefer the more athletic guys win the starting job? Absolutely. Did Knox struggle on routes and timing last year? Often but he got better later in the year.

 

While he might not be the favored horse in this race our other WRs are not proven enough to rule Iglesias out of the competition. I prefer Iglesias' quickness and YAC ability over what Bennett brings to the field. Bennett is a good reliable WR, the kind of player you love to have fill out your roster behind the top talent, he's just not a difference maker and I believe you have to have some difference makers on the field to win.

 

[nfoligno]

What I mean is, the QB throws the ball to a spot which at that moment is empty, but by the time the ball arrives, the WR should arrive too. Not every offense does this.

 

It is one thing to throw ahead of a WR in order to lead him, but this is different. In this system, the QB is often throwing the ball prior to the WR even making his break/cut. So much has to be right. WR and QB have to be on the same page. Timing has to be perfect. If all goes right, this play is nearly impossible to defend. If it goes wrong, it could have the QB throwing right into the hands of a DB.

 

Again, it isn't just a matter of 'leading' a WR, which you see in any system. It goes beyond that as the QB actually starts his throw expecting a WR to (for example) break inside and throws to that point prior to the WR even making his break.

 

Doesn't all offensive schemes try and do this? I do not think throwing the ball to where the receiver is suppose to be is unique to any one particular offensive scheme.

 

[nfoligno]

First, can I just say it is great just knowing I am not the only one who still believes in Iglesias. I was super high on him in the draft, and thrilled we got him. I really expected more last year, and do not know if his lack of PT was due to how we brought him along (see Bennett) or due to his not really stepping up as quickly as I personally expected. Either way, I still see him as a very talented kid, and he was part of the reason I didn't want to go after a WR in FA. Part of the reason.

 

Honestly, I have a hard time just looking at the group of WRs and simply putting them in a 1-5 order. To me, the WR position is simply not broken down that way. It does not always workout that your top 2 WRs are also your starters. You break it down by looking at your X or Y wrs, slant, etc. As fans, so often we talk about having the two fastest guys at the X and Y, but how often does that playout? Maybe it will be different with Martz, but many coaches (like Turner) sort of pigeon hole WRs into a certain WR position.

 

So at one spot, I see DA and Knox. On the other side, I see Bennett and Iglesias. In the slot, with the ability to move outside also, is Hester.

 

I think DA has the edge over Knox. Knox really excited a lot of fans last year with his speed and a couple big games, but he really lacks consistency. Fans need to remember that he came from a small school, and was expected to be a bit of a developmental/project WR. We did well in limiting the amount he had to learn, but as a starter, he will have a far greater burden, and the need to be a much more consistent player. I like Knox, but simply do not think he is ready for that, and thus I see DA on one side.

 

On the other side, Bennett played well. Not great, but well. He was a good route runner and displayed solid hands, making some tough catches in traffic. But Bennett while solid, that may be the limit of his ability, while I believe (as do you) Iglesias could be considerably more. The question will be whether Iglesias can take that jump in his 2nd year. If there is a legit competition between he and Bennett, I believe that could happen.

 

To me, DA and Iglesias on the outside w/ Hester inside would be a hell of a threat. Knox, to me, is a real wild card. I think he works in as a situational player, but if he develops faster than expected, this could get very interesting.

 

I can not remember the last time I felt this way, but I really do like our WRs. They have a LOT to prove, but I just love the talent/youth combination we have. No, we do not have a Fitzgerald in the group, but not many teams do. I do however believe we have a considerable amount of talent, and for once, we have a QB who can utilize that talent. I am skeptical in many areas of our team, but this is one of the few where I believe we could excel. When I look at our OC/system, QB and WRs, I think we can have a hell of a passing attack.

 

I totally agree there are different levels of athleticism and Iglesias is not at the top among our WRs. However, when I said talent I was trying to consider all the aspects of being a WR. Certainly Knox, Bennett, DA have a leg up on Iglesias in terms of playing time last year but as compared to Knox or DA I think Iglesias is a more polished WR with more reliable hands. It seems it was preordained that we wouldn't see Iglesias much last year as he was forced to do what Bennett did while Knox was given a very limited route package. As you said, Iglesias is a better route runner than Knox and DA and given the need to learn a new offense and Martz' demand for the WR to be in the right spot all the time I can't rule out Iglesias winning a job. Would Martz prefer the more athletic guys win the starting job? Absolutely. Did Knox struggle on routes and timing last year? Often but he got better later in the year.

 

While he might not be the favored horse in this race our other WRs are not proven enough to rule Iglesias out of the competition. I prefer Iglesias' quickness and YAC ability over what Bennett brings to the field. Bennett is a good reliable WR, the kind of player you love to have fill out your roster behind the top talent, he's just not a difference maker and I believe you have to have some difference makers on the field to win.

 

[Pixote]

Again, ALL systems work this way.

 

Last year how many times did Cutler throw to a spot the revceiver was suppose to be but the receiver cut the wrong way or stopped his route?

 

This caused a good number of incompletions and a few interceptions.

 

It is because he was throwing to a spot the receiver was suppose to be, a timing route, and he threw the ball to that spot before he realized the receiver was not going to be where he was suppose to be.

 

The only time a pro QB in a Pro system does not "throw to the spot the receiver is suppose to be before the receiver makes his cut or arrives at that spot is when the play breaks down and the QB is looking for a WR to break the route and freelance a bit to get free and save the play.

 

What I mean is, the QB throws the ball to a spot which at that moment is empty, but by the time the ball arrives, the WR should arrive too. Not every offense does this.

 

It is one thing to throw ahead of a WR in order to lead him, but this is different. In this system, the QB is often throwing the ball prior to the WR even making his break/cut. So much has to be right. WR and QB have to be on the same page. Timing has to be perfect. If all goes right, this play is nearly impossible to defend. If it goes wrong, it could have the QB throwing right into the hands of a DB.

 

Again, it isn't just a matter of 'leading' a WR, which you see in any system. It goes beyond that as the QB actually starts his throw expecting a WR to (for example) break inside and throws to that point prior to the WR even making his break.

[defiantgiant]

Again, ALL systems work this way.

Yeah, it's not something unique to Martz's offense, it's just an issue of degree. All offenses use some timing throws (Ron Turner's offense actually used more than a lot of WCOs, from what I've read) but Martz's offense relies almost entirely on timing throws, and (again, from what I've read) they're more demanding timing throws than a lot of offenses ask a QB to make regularly. That's why he's got a reputation for being such a stickler: he needs his receivers to run their routes at the exact right depth and arrive at the spot right on time, he needs the QB to be very precise in his drop and get the ball out exactly on time, etc.

[AZ54]

One thing about Cutler is he has outstanding arm strength. That means he can wait longer to throw than the average QB in this offense. It should help in the early games as players work to get on the same page but we still have to expect some INTs.

[brletich]

One thing about Cutler is he has outstanding arm strength. That means he can wait longer to throw than the average QB in this offense. It should help in the early games as players work to get on the same page but we still have to expect some INTs.

 

After last year we should have expected INT's anyway, regardless of who the OC is.

[nfoligno]

Exactly. Every offense will use such routes/plays, but Martz uses them far more. While such precise timing routes were part of Turners system, those sort of plays essentially ARE Martz' system.

 

Yeah, it's not something unique to Martz's offense, it's just an issue of degree. All offenses use some timing throws (Ron Turner's offense actually used more than a lot of WCOs, from what I've read) but Martz's offense relies almost entirely on timing throws, and (again, from what I've read) they're more demanding timing throws than a lot of offenses ask a QB to make regularly. That's why he's got a reputation for being such a stickler: he needs his receivers to run their routes at the exact right depth and arrive at the spot right on time, he needs the QB to be very precise in his drop and get the ball out exactly on time, etc.

 

[madlithuanian]

Until he gets shell shocked again with the pourous O-Line...

 

Besides coaching, I really worry about our O-line...

 

 

 

One thing about Cutler is he has outstanding arm strength. That means he can wait longer to throw than the average QB in this offense. It should help in the early games as players work to get on the same page but we still have to expect some INTs.

 

[defiantgiant]

Exactly. Every offense will use such routes/plays, but Martz uses them far more. While such precise timing routes were part of Turners system, those sort of plays essentially ARE Martz' system.

Yeah, and Martz uses far more deep timing throws than most offenses do. In most other offenses, like the Patriots' and Broncos', the timing throws tend to be shorter routes, which makes sense, as your quarterback is basically handing the DBs a chance to make a play on the ball, then relying on his receiver to beat them to the spot. This is even more true if you're throwing the ball to a spot that's 15 yards or more downfield, like Martz does: that gives the secondary more time to break on the ball and makes it more likely to be a pick rather than an incompletion if the receiver can't get to the spot first. It's an inherently risky throw, and it requires really precise execution to work. Martz's offense's success is pretty much predicated on those throws working, since they're very hard to defend and can really gash a defense if executed right (which is a big if.) A lot of throws in a Martz offense look like they're going directly to a corner or safety until the receiver swoops in at the last second.

 

I'm a little worried about those timing throws being workable on Soldier Field's turf, now that the management has opted against an artificial surface (again.) Hopefully Martz can cook up something a little more conservative than the Greatest Show on Turf, because he's not always going to be able to rely on precision timing when the receivers are running their routes in a mud pit and slipping out of their breaks all the time.