TO in Halas today??

[nfoligno]

Sorry, but I saw it here in dallas first hand, and it is something that was often talked about. When the team lost, TO would say it was because they didn't throw him the ball more. When the team won, w/o throwing a ton to TO, he would sulk and not talk to reporters.

 

When you say, "when things were going well" do you mean for the team, or for TO? I agree that when things were going well for TO, you didn't hear anything from him. But I disagree on the team angle.

 

Maybe it didn't get National as much. I don't know. But did you not hear about the rift when TO started complaining that Romo was throwing to Witten, not because he would be open or the best option, but because they were friends? And it wasn't just a one time thing. As in Phily, TO seemed to be starting to create a division in the locker room. TO was getting players on his side, and what was seen in Phily was starting to happen here in Dallas. So Dallas jumps TO, and did so when at the time they had little else on the roster, but regardless, felt they were better w/o him.

 

When things were going well in both places, you barely heard a peep out of TO. I don't know where you are getting the reverse angle from. TO's reactions, from what I have seen over many, many games, always seem to be negative when the team loses, and he feels he could have helped the team more. Both of those teams were winning teams...but both ultimately lost.

 

[nfoligno]

Yeah, there's no doubt we agree on this issue of OL. I think where JA's philosophy differs from ours is that he places a premium on DL. As we've heard many times, they are the key to the defense. The fact that JA has failed so miserably at having a stud DL, QB and S has dramatically shifted his ability to aquire OL via the draft. Leaving him to take late flyers, hoping to get lucky or supplementing with servicable FA veterens.

 

Agreed. I'll go a step further (or two). I recall a couple years ago Angelo actually coming out and saying he doesn't like drafting OL. He said OL took longer to develop, and that is why he got them in FA. But, IMHO, Angelo got hosed by the times. It wasn't that long ago OL was pretty affordable in FA. LTs were making big bucks, but the others really weren't. RT and OG could be had for a song, but times changed and even OGs started making huge bucks in FA. Now Angelo was stuck. He didn't like to draft OL, but didn't want to spend the premier dollars in FA. Thus, all that was left to do was go after bargains in FA which came w/ red flags.

 

IMO - if they would have focused a higher level of attention on OL and coaching them up, everything else would have fallen into place on the offense. It would have made everyone else better, including the QB's.

 

Been saying that for years. If you have an exceptional OL, average positions players suddenly look pretty dang good.

 

Here's the funny thing; DL in the cover two is supposed to be one of the easiest positions to find, yet JA has had success with only one out of 13 draft choices?? That tells me our coaching sucks. How many times have you heard that JA had solid drafts from people in the know, only to have them NOT pan out. Coaching...

 

I do agree about the coaching. IMHO, Don Johnson was a good DL coach, but then we let him go and replaced him w/ garbage. However, I would not so easily let Angelo off the hook. While he has taken a lot of DL, how many of those DL came w/ red flags. Angelo was taking gambles with many of the DL he took hoping for that high ceiling, but too often, we saw those red flags come to the front.

 

Tommie Harris - He was a rotation player at Oklahoma, and there we questions about his ability to be a full time player, as well as his drive. Both turned out true.

 

Tank - Character red flags which proved true.

 

Dusty - Character red flag, though it was injury that undid him.

 

Harrison - Red flag on drive as I recall, and showing up over-weight proved that flag true.

 

Gilbert/Melton - Both were considered talented but very raw, and each proved incapable of quick starts.

 

Point is, while he has drafted a lot of DL, he has gone after the high ceiling guys with red flags and too often those flags blew up in his face.

 

I have preached for years to have the OL fixed or to have one side of the ball be dominant. Neither has happened, but not for a lack of trying to draft D. Coach is a defensive guru and they still can't get it right? I'm blaming Lovie.

 

Understand, I agree coaching has been a huge issue, but would simply not be so quick to let Angelo off the hook. DL he drafted were loaded with red flags, while the safeties he drafts were, well, bad.

 

IMO - where JA screwed the pooch was during our Superbowl window. Remember the draft after the Superbowl? GM's from other teams thought we bulletproof and the only team that could win it all despite not having a good QB. He took flyers at many positions to gamble on explosiveness. That draft with not adding OL high and letting TJ go put a world of hurt on our future. It was a squandered opportunity by drafting a bunch of men for their measurables. IE: men in shorts.

 

No argument on his blowing that draft, but I am not sure that draft was alone.

 

 

[Mongo3451]

Yeah, there's no doubt we agree on this issue of OL. I think where JA's philosophy differs from ours is that he places a premium on DL. As we've heard many times, they are the key to the defense. The fact that JA has failed so miserably at having a stud DL, QB and S has dramatically shifted his ability to aquire OL via the draft. Leaving him to take late flyers, hoping to get lucky or supplementing with servicable FA veterens.

 

Agreed. I'll go a step further (or two). I recall a couple years ago Angelo actually coming out and saying he doesn't like drafting OL. He said OL took longer to develop, and that is why he got them in FA. But, IMHO, Angelo got hosed by the times. It wasn't that long ago OL was pretty affordable in FA. LTs were making big bucks, but the others really weren't. RT and OG could be had for a song, but times changed and even OGs started making huge bucks in FA. Now Angelo was stuck. He didn't like to draft OL, but didn't want to spend the premier dollars in FA. Thus, all that was left to do was go after bargains in FA which came w/ red flags.

 

IMO - if they would have focused a higher level of attention on OL and coaching them up, everything else would have fallen into place on the offense. It would have made everyone else better, including the QB's.

 

Been saying that for years. If you have an exceptional OL, average positions players suddenly look pretty dang good.

 

Here's the funny thing; DL in the cover two is supposed to be one of the easiest positions to find, yet JA has had success with only one out of 13 draft choices?? That tells me our coaching sucks. How many times have you heard that JA had solid drafts from people in the know, only to have them NOT pan out. Coaching...

 

I do agree about the coaching. IMHO, Don Johnson was a good DL coach, but then we let him go and replaced him w/ garbage. However, I would not so easily let Angelo off the hook. While he has taken a lot of DL, how many of those DL came w/ red flags. Angelo was taking gambles with many of the DL he took hoping for that high ceiling, but too often, we saw those red flags come to the front.

 

Tommie Harris - He was a rotation player at Oklahoma, and there we questions about his ability to be a full time player, as well as his drive. Both turned out true.

 

Tank - Character red flags which proved true.

 

Dusty - Character red flag, though it was injury that undid him.

 

Harrison - Red flag on drive as I recall, and showing up over-weight proved that flag true.

 

Gilbert/Melton - Both were considered talented but very raw, and each proved incapable of quick starts.

 

Point is, while he has drafted a lot of DL, he has gone after the high ceiling guys with red flags and too often those flags blew up in his face.

 

I have preached for years to have the OL fixed or to have one side of the ball be dominant. Neither has happened, but not for a lack of trying to draft D. Coach is a defensive guru and they still can't get it right? I'm blaming Lovie.

 

Understand, I agree coaching has been a huge issue, but would simply not be so quick to let Angelo off the hook. DL he drafted were loaded with red flags, while the safeties he drafts were, well, bad.

 

IMO - where JA screwed the pooch was during our Superbowl window. Remember the draft after the Superbowl? GM's from other teams thought we bulletproof and the only team that could win it all despite not having a good QB. He took flyers at many positions to gamble on explosiveness. That draft with not adding OL high and letting TJ go put a world of hurt on our future. It was a squandered opportunity by drafting a bunch of men for their measurables. IE: men in shorts.

 

No argument on his blowing that draft, but I am not sure that draft was alone.

I can't find anything to disagree with. Damn!

[Mongo3451]

Show me where TO has caused a problem while on the field.

I consider the sidelines part of the playing field in regard to his behavior. On that, he has had several issues with team mates and coaches.(on national TV and replayed and debated on the halftime shows and ESPN) It's well documented. I will say that they do try to enhance the story, just because it's TO. But, in all reality, he's done more to deserve the attention than anyone else.

Oh, and BTW, it's "throwing a QB under the bus after a championship run"...that eventually ended with a loss. Therefore, it's not a true "championship" run.

C'mon, that just reeks of desparation.

I agree that the coaches and much of the front office are idiots, but IDK what you're talking about with the OL. It's rarely addressed, and the one mistake (Colombo) is not really a mistake...it's an unfortunate injury.

I addressed that in another post. We agree what they have done is NOT to our philosophy, but I think they have felt their plan should have been more successful.

As for the Cardinals' player, I have no clue which starter was formerly with the Bears. I'm missing something here.

Mike Gandy has started as LT for the Cards for years. He's not the greatest thing, but a starter on a playoff team and better than anything we had the last few sesons.

[BearFan PHX]

One point.

 

If DL is the key to victory, then it stand to reason that OL is pretty important, since they are charged with dealing with the other team's DL?

[Mongo3451]

One point.

 

If DL is the key to victory, then it stand to reason that OL is pretty important, since they are charged with dealing with the other team's DL?

One would think. That's warefare 101. JA and Lovie have figured out a better path to victory.(sarcasm)

 

Hope all our vets have a great Memorial weekend. Thanks guys!

[Cutsizzle]

Wouldn't hurt, we love aging WRs anyway.

[DrunkBomber]

Throw him a 1 year contract, we have nothing to lose...

[henrypilarski]

I agree totally... As long as the price isn't too outrageous I say give him a chance, I think it would be interested seeing TO in a Bears jersey.

Of course it all depends on how much money he wants to play. It's not worth spending half the draft budget to get him.