Recent thoughts and talks about WRs

[nfoligno]

crap. with bonehead mistakes like that, I should be working for ESPN!

 

Switch LG and RG analysis...

 

Remember RG stands for Roberto Garza.

 

[AZ54]

crap. with bonehead mistakes like that, I should be working for ESPN!

 

Correction: With boneheaded mistakes like that you WILL be working for ESPN, and thus lose all credibility.

 

[brletich]

Correction: With boneheaded mistakes like that you WILL be working for ESPN, and thus lose all credibility.

 

Huh? That statement implies he had any to begin with

[nfoligno]

Hey, if they want to pay me, I'll give up what little credi I have

 

Correction: With boneheaded mistakes like that you WILL be working for ESPN, and thus lose all credibility.

 

[nfoligno]

Ouch! Now that stung. Probably true, but ouch

 

Huh? That statement implies he had any to begin with

 

[defiantgiant]

Nfo, I agree that Hester's got some more improving to do, definitely. And Knox is definitely at least as good a downfield/perimeter threat as Hester - Aromashodu could be too, if he can play more consistently than he did at the end of last season. But one of the reasons I think Hester needs to start on the outside (until one of those two outplays him) is this: your #1 guy can't be Bernard Berrian. By that, I mean that you can't have a #1 receiver who only knows how to run those outside-the-hashes routes. When we had Berrian-Muhammad as our WRs, I'd argue that Moose was the better go-to guy, if only because he was less one-dimensional. The same thing goes for Hester versus Knox/DA, at least at this point in their development. As much as Hester needs to clean up his route-running over the middle, I hardly ever saw Knox or DA running drags, crosses, anything. They were both pretty much pure downfield guys last season, with Hester and Bennett picking up all the other work. Until one of them starts looking like a complete receiver, I'd rather start Hester on the outside. When we go three-wide, that's another story. I'd love to see Hester start at flanker in 2WR sets, then move into the slot for 3- and 4-receiver sets.

[BigDaddy]

I think you need to go back and watch the game films for the last 4 games last year. DA was probably our best asset. Of ALL the WRs on this roster, he might just have the best hands. I don't like Hester wide, I would put him in the slot. Let him make his YAC work for him. As for Knox, he simply needs to get better at getting off the LOS and into his route quicker or he's gonna be just a 1 trick pony. Not that the 1 trick won't be exciting, but it will be just 1 trick.

 

Nfo, I agree that Hester's got some more improving to do, definitely. And Knox is definitely at least as good a downfield/perimeter threat as Hester - Aromashodu could be too, if he can play more consistently than he did at the end of last season. But one of the reasons I think Hester needs to start on the outside (until one of those two outplays him) is this: your #1 guy can't be Bernard Berrian. By that, I mean that you can't have a #1 receiver who only knows how to run those outside-the-hashes routes. When we had Berrian-Muhammad as our WRs, I'd argue that Moose was the better go-to guy, if only because he was less one-dimensional. The same thing goes for Hester versus Knox/DA, at least at this point in their development. As much as Hester needs to clean up his route-running over the middle, I hardly ever saw Knox or DA running drags, crosses, anything. They were both pretty much pure downfield guys last season, with Hester and Bennett picking up all the other work. Until one of them starts looking like a complete receiver, I'd rather start Hester on the outside. When we go three-wide, that's another story. I'd love to see Hester start at flanker in 2WR sets, then move into the slot for 3- and 4-receiver sets.

 

[bradjock]

Daryl Drake was interviewed at chicagobears.com

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=6887

 

While he brags up all the receivers, here's what he says about DA:

"He’s got size, speed, explosiveness and the ability to make plays. He catches the football in a crowd. There are just so many things that he gives us from a physical standpoint and a blocking standpoint."

 

For me what this all comes down to is that Hester has never looked like an elite receiver and IMO he never will. I'm not saying he's bad, he'll just never become a Steve Smith.

 

On the other hand, DA impressed the hell out of me in those last 4 games. The way DD describes him, be can be a legit #1 WR and he should be starting.

[nfoligno]

As BigDaddy said, I disagree on DA. DA showed all-around ability late in the year when he finally got on the field. He was not simply running go routes downfield, but working the field through many different routes.

 

For the record, I have no issue with the statement that Hester is the starter until either DA or Knox prove capable. My concern is if the team sets Hester as the starter, and only demotes him if he bombs, rather than if one of the other two do in fact step up. If it is an open competition, awesome. If the job is Hester's to lose, I think that is a mistake.

 

 

 

Nfo, I agree that Hester's got some more improving to do, definitely. And Knox is definitely at least as good a downfield/perimeter threat as Hester - Aromashodu could be too, if he can play more consistently than he did at the end of last season. But one of the reasons I think Hester needs to start on the outside (until one of those two outplays him) is this: your #1 guy can't be Bernard Berrian. By that, I mean that you can't have a #1 receiver who only knows how to run those outside-the-hashes routes. When we had Berrian-Muhammad as our WRs, I'd argue that Moose was the better go-to guy, if only because he was less one-dimensional. The same thing goes for Hester versus Knox/DA, at least at this point in their development. As much as Hester needs to clean up his route-running over the middle, I hardly ever saw Knox or DA running drags, crosses, anything. They were both pretty much pure downfield guys last season, with Hester and Bennett picking up all the other work. Until one of them starts looking like a complete receiver, I'd rather start Hester on the outside. When we go three-wide, that's another story. I'd love to see Hester start at flanker in 2WR sets, then move into the slot for 3- and 4-receiver sets.

 

[nfoligno]

As I mentioned in another post, I just hope we have a legit, open competition at WR for ALL spots. If that happens, I think we could see a heck of a competition.

 

I have to say, while I still have reservations about Martz, one thing I love moving forward is how many WRs he uses, as I think we have a lot of talent at WR this year.

 

Think about this. Lets say DA does step up into that #1 role. I still like having a more possession WR on the other side, and I still think Iglesias can beat out Bennett. But even if Bennett does keep the job, that still leaves Hester AND Knox.

 

What we could see is something we have never seen before, and that is having both starting WRs being in the mold of speedsters. I am starting to wonder if the staff won't consider the TE equal to the possession role, and thus not need the #2 WR being a possession guy. If that is the case, you could have DA, Knox and Hester as your three WRs on the field (in whatever order) while Olsen is considered your possession guy. W/ receiving RBs also in the mix, the offensive potential here is incredible.

 

Daryl Drake was interviewed at chicagobears.com

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=6887

 

While he brags up all the receivers, here's what he says about DA:

"He’s got size, speed, explosiveness and the ability to make plays. He catches the football in a crowd. There are just so many things that he gives us from a physical standpoint and a blocking standpoint."

 

For me what this all comes down to is that Hester has never looked like an elite receiver and IMO he never will. I'm not saying he's bad, he'll just never become a Steve Smith.

 

On the other hand, DA impressed the hell out of me in those last 4 games. The way DD describes him, be can be a legit #1 WR and he should be starting.

 

[madlithuanian]

Be preapred for the mistake...that's standard operating procedure for the Smith regime...

 

As BigDaddy said, I disagree on DA. DA showed all-around ability late in the year when he finally got on the field. He was not simply running go routes downfield, but working the field through many different routes.

 

For the record, I have no issue with the statement that Hester is the starter until either DA or Knox prove capable. My concern is if the team sets Hester as the starter, and only demotes him if he bombs, rather than if one of the other two do in fact step up. If it is an open competition, awesome. If the job is Hester's to lose, I think that is a mistake.

 

[defiantgiant]

I think you need to go back and watch the game films for the last 4 games last year. DA was probably our best asset. Of ALL the WRs on this roster, he might just have the best hands. I don't like Hester wide, I would put him in the slot. Let him make his YAC work for him. As for Knox, he simply needs to get better at getting off the LOS and into his route quicker or he's gonna be just a 1 trick pony. Not that the 1 trick won't be exciting, but it will be just 1 trick.

Umm, why would the game film from the last 4 games make me think Aromashodu was consistent? In those four games, he had a solid outing against Green Bay, absolutely torched an injured Antoine Winfield in the Minnesota game, and got shut down by two very poor secondaries in Baltimore and Detroit. More than half his yards came in the Minnesota game - in the other three, he ranged between decent and a total nonfactor. What part of that says "consistent"?

 

Also, if you think he's got better hands than Hester or Bennett, their catch percentages beg to differ.

 

I agree with you about Knox, though - I'm worried that he's going to get jammed a lot this season, now that teams know what he can do in the open field and how bad he can burn DBs when they play off-coverage. He'd better learn how to beat a jam in a hurry. If he does, though, I think he's got a shot to outproduce all the other WRs.

[bradjock]

I've got to admit, I just now looked at these. All good plays . . . but that's it??? Seriously??? That's Hester at his best? Just on the 3 2009 plays:

Browns: Helluva a play. Except we were winning 23 to 6 in the 4 quarter against a really bad Browns team.

Falcons: Tom Thayer says, "I thought he was going to split the defenders and go the distance." He didn't. He broke left, made one guy miss, and got tackled. A great player goes the distance on that.

Seahawks: The Seattle player tackled his teammate or that play doesn't happen. A bit of dumb luck involved. Nice play.

 

I concede that Hester will occassionally make a guy miss. But if these are the best of the 2009 highlights, you've proven they are few and far between. I didn't see anything that Rashied Davis couldn't do and Davis is like our 6th or 7th best WR.

 

Hester at his best can be a good NFL WR . . . that's about it.

 

True, but hasn't Martz specifically said that he's planning to move Hester all over? With his love of shifts, motion, and multiple formations, I'd expect to see Hester line up all over the place, wherever Martz thinks he can get the best matchup on that particular play.

 

Also, what's with all this talk about Hester not making guys miss after the catch? I think somebody was asking for a specific example? Here you go:

2009:

Week 8 against the Browns

Week 6 against the Falcons

Week 3 against the Seahawks

 

2008:

Week 13 against the Vikings

Week 5 against the Lions

 

Separate from his YAC, I think something that's been overlooked (and something that serves him very well as a perimeter receiver, rather than in the slot) is his ability to make DBs hesitate before the catch. Watch this highlight against the Rams. Hester breaks out that stop-and-go move about three times during his route, without ever losing speed. He gets Ron Bartell (St. Louis' #1 corner, and a pretty underrated cover guy) to bite on the stop-and-go, putting Bartell like three steps behind him and out of position to break up the pass, leaving Hester one-on-one with the safety Butler, who's not up to covering him. I can't find the highlight right now, but I remember seeing Hester put a fake on Asante Samuel mid-route that made Samuel spin around 360 degrees.

 

Also, nfo, why do you think Hester can't track or adjust to the ball? He flashed the ability to track the ball as early as the end of 2007, and he's started doing it consistently since then, especially last season. In 2008, he did it against the Texans and Jags, adjusting nicely on some really underthrown passes from Orton. Last season, he did it in Week 1 against the Packers, and again against the Cards. On that last one, he tracked a deep ball down the sideline beautifully and hauled it in, despite having Dominique Rogers-Cromartie (who's one of the few guys in the NFL significantly faster than Hester) in his face the whole time.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think Hester's still got some areas to improve, but making guys miss and tracking the ball aren't among them.