Bears selected Unga

[nfoligno]

We simply disagree.

 

I say he adds more because, while Wolfe has skill sets, they overlap too much with what we already have.

 

You say Wolfe is a better blocker than I give credit, but better than Forte/Taylor? Is he a better receiver? He can run outside, but I am not sure he can even due that better? I simply struggle to find a time when I would rather him in there over Forte/Taylor.

 

On the other hand, I think Unga does have a chance to add something. You say we can already pickup short yardage with what we have, but I am not sure I agree. One of the top knocks on Forte, even when he was running strong his first year, was his upright running style that hinders his ability to convert 3rd and short. Yes, the OL is a big factor, but so too is the RB we use.

 

I know you think it is all about the OL, but the RB is a part of this too. Having a power RB may not have a big payoff, but even if the OL doesn't open up big holes, often a power back can push through the tackle enough for a short gain.

 

If Benson, or another power back, was our top runner, I would love to have Wolfe, but with both our 1 and 2 backs being quicker backs, I like the idea of a power back in the fold.

 

I hope you're right. But what I see is a bigger, slower RB behind an OL that is not good at blocking, and worse at drive blocking. All the Unga pick does in a play like that is make the collision sound better as he's continually stuffed for no gain.

 

[jason]

We simply disagree.

 

I say he adds more because, while Wolfe has skill sets, they overlap too much with what we already have.

 

You say Wolfe is a better blocker than I give credit, but better than Forte/Taylor? Is he a better receiver? He can run outside, but I am not sure he can even due that better? I simply struggle to find a time when I would rather him in there over Forte/Taylor.

 

On the other hand, I think Unga does have a chance to add something. You say we can already pickup short yardage with what we have, but I am not sure I agree. One of the top knocks on Forte, even when he was running strong his first year, was his upright running style that hinders his ability to convert 3rd and short. Yes, the OL is a big factor, but so too is the RB we use.

 

I know you think it is all about the OL, but the RB is a part of this too. Having a power RB may not have a big payoff, but even if the OL doesn't open up big holes, often a power back can push through the tackle enough for a short gain.

 

If Benson, or another power back, was our top runner, I would love to have Wolfe, but with both our 1 and 2 backs being quicker backs, I like the idea of a power back in the fold.

 

What I don't get is why you think Unga has some sort of unique skill set that doesn't overlap with Forte or Taylor, when the dude didn't even get drafted. Hell, if his skill set was that good, that unique, he more than likely would have been drafted...LIKE WOLFE.

 

Also, it's not all about the OL...I don't believe that. But it sure as hell has a lot to do with it. And as long as the Bears' OL sucks, the RBs will not produce to their capacity.

[GrizzlyBear]

I hope you're right. But what I see is a bigger, slower RB behind an OL that is not good at blocking, and worse at drive blocking. All the Unga pick does in a play like that is make the collision sound better as he's continually stuffed for no gain.

 

Drive Blocking is why Tice was brought in. Its probably going to be the biggest improvement in camp this year. The line play on both sides of the ball. But more noticable from O line. If things pan out like I hope you will see holes big enough to drive a truck through.

[Mongo3451]

Drive Blocking is why Tice was brought in. Its probably going to be the biggest improvement in camp this year. The line play on both sides of the ball. But more noticable from O line. If things pan out like I hope you will see holes big enough to drive a truck through.

My issue with that optimism is that Omiyale is the only drive blocking type of starter we have on the OL. Garza, Kruetz and Beekam are all undersized for the dfirve blocking task. My only optimism is that Hiestand is NOT the OL coach and that Williams and Omiyale will move toward their upside.

 

[flea]

another viewpoint

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears

 

Q: Jeff, I was thinking about the Bears taking Harvey Unga in the NFL supplemental draft, and how that changes the dynamic in the backfield. I'm stuck on this: who is the better running back, Garrett Wolfe or Kahlil Bell? I haven't seen much from Wolfe since he was drafted, and Bell only joined the Bears last year. Help. -- Christoper, Kansas

 

A: This is an interesting debate because the Bears probably won't be able to keep both Wolfe and Bell on the active roster. After Wolfe was placed on injured reserve midway though last season, Bell did a decent job, rushing 40 times for 220 yards, including a 72-yard run on his first NFL carry. Bell is also roughly four inches taller and 25 pounds heavier than Wolfe, and posses a more traditional frame for an NFL running back. Taking that all into account, I still believe Wolfe is a better all-around player, and therefore more deserving of a roster spot between the two. Facts are facts -- Wolfe hasn't done much on offense since being taken in the third round in 2007. We know Wolfe isn't a between-the-tackles runner, but in the right offense, he could be a dangerous option on third down. At least that's the hope. But with Matt Forte and Chester Taylor firmly entrenched at the top of the Bears' depth chart, Wolfe doesn't get the nod over Bell just because of his potential on third down. Wolfe is on my 53-man roster, because despite being 5-foot-7, he's surprisingly tough, recording 30 special teams tackles in his last 21 games. I tend to prefer players who value substance over style. Wolfe has the reputation in the locker room as somebody who just loves to play football, and who values winning over individual accomplishment. Maybe that doesn't matter to some people, but I like Wolfe having a spot on the Bears if possible. Now, if Unga blows us away in training camp, Wolfe may be in trouble. He's certainly not guaranteed a roster spot, but I think it would be a mistake to write him off prematurely.

 

 

[flea]

What I don't get is why you think Unga has some sort of unique skill set that doesn't overlap with Forte or Taylor, when the dude didn't even get drafted. Hell, if his skill set was that good, that unique, he more than likely would have been drafted...LIKE WOLFE.

 

Also, it's not all about the OL...I don't believe that. But it sure as hell has a lot to do with it. And as long as the Bears' OL sucks, the RBs will not produce to their capacity.

 

 

I may be wrong Jason but wasn't he kicked off BYU after the draft?

[madlithuanian]

Thanks for the post!

[GrizzlyBear]

I may be wrong Jason but wasn't he kicked off BYU after the draft?

 

Yeah he was , But it was for Porking his fiance while not married.

[defiantgiant]

What I don't get is why you think Unga has some sort of unique skill set that doesn't overlap with Forte or Taylor, when the dude didn't even get drafted. Hell, if his skill set was that good, that unique, he more than likely would have been drafted...LIKE WOLFE.

 

Umm...he got drafted. The Bears just took him in the supplemental draft. The supplemental draft is for guys who stay for their senior years but then get kicked out or lose their eligibility - it's not a second chance for guys who didn't get drafted the first time around. Unga got kicked out of BYU after he admitted to the administration that he had premarital sex with his fiancee (now wife.) He's basically the ideal supplemental draft guy - a lot of them are guys who got caught cheating or got arrested and kicked out.

 

Also, I don't know if you should point to Wolfe's draft status as evidence of his skill set. Think about how many drafted (even highly-drafted) players each year turn out to absolutely suck. I've watched Wolfe play, and I don't see much in the way of a "unique" skill set: he doesn't have breakaway speed in the open field, he can't break tackles, and the juke move that worked so well in college hasn't been making anybody miss in the NFL. He catches the ball well out of the backfield, but so do Forte and Taylor.

 

Look, last season was Wolfe's best year by far, and if you take away the one long gain on a gadget special teams play (where they direct-snapped it to him on a fake punt) and only look at the plays where he actually had to take a handoff, he rang up 84 yards on 21 carries. 4 yards a carry isn't a bad mark for a workhorse back who shoulders the load, but Wolfe is supposed to be playing the Leon Washington/Darren Sproles scatback role. You need a scatback to break long runs, not get marginally better yardage than your main back. Both Washington and Sproles are threats to take one to the house, that's what makes them effective. Wolfe might be small like those two, but he's score ONE touchdown in his NFL career.

 

You keep saying that Wolfe needs to be used more, but looking at what he's done with the carries he's gotten, I just can't see how they could justify it. He's a one-dimensional player and he's not good enough at that one dimension to make it worthwhile to give him the ball. He's good on special teams, and I'm fine with him playing there, but I don't want him taking snaps away from other backs on offense.

[jason]

Umm...he got drafted. The Bears just took him in the supplemental draft. The supplemental draft is for guys who stay for their senior years but then get kicked out or lose their eligibility - it's not a second chance for guys who didn't get drafted the first time around. Unga got kicked out of BYU after he admitted to the administration that he had premarital sex with his fiancee (now wife.) He's basically the ideal supplemental draft guy - a lot of them are guys who got caught cheating or got arrested and kicked out.

 

Also, I don't know if you should point to Wolfe's draft status as evidence of his skill set. Think about how many drafted (even highly-drafted) players each year turn out to absolutely suck. I've watched Wolfe play, and I don't see much in the way of a "unique" skill set: he doesn't have breakaway speed in the open field, he can't break tackles, and the juke move that worked so well in college hasn't been making anybody miss in the NFL. He catches the ball well out of the backfield, but so do Forte and Taylor.

Look, last season was Wolfe's best year by far, and if you take away the one long gain on a gadget special teams play (where they direct-snapped it to him on a fake punt) and only look at the plays where he actually had to take a handoff, he rang up 84 yards on 21 carries. 4 yards a carry isn't a bad mark for a workhorse back who shoulders the load, but Wolfe is supposed to be playing the Leon Washington/Darren Sproles scatback role. You need a scatback to break long runs, not get marginally better yardage than your main back. Both Washington and Sproles are threats to take one to the house, that's what makes them effective. Wolfe might be small like those two, but he's score ONE touchdown in his NFL career.

 

You keep saying that Wolfe needs to be used more, but looking at what he's done with the carries he's gotten, I just can't see how they could justify it. He's a one-dimensional player and he's not good enough at that one dimension to make it worthwhile to give him the ball. He's good on special teams, and I'm fine with him playing there, but I don't want him taking snaps away from other backs on offense.

 

If you believe what you have put, you're high. When Wolfe has been given a chance, he's produced fairly well. The problem is, he has only been given a handful of opportunities.

 

I don't know where you are getting your stats, but here's his profootballreference page:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WolfGa00.htm

 

Odd, but the juke move seemed to work here:

 

And here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBfCZf8375o

 

And here he is breaking tackles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrAxuCxIgk8

 

Look at his VERY limited opportunities. Then look at the number of big plays he's made. There are several, and that is fairly uncommon for a guy who almost never gets carries. Hell, he probably should have received a portion of Forte's carries last year since Forte stunk up the joint (which led to the acquisition of Taylor).

[defiantgiant]

If you believe what you have put, you're high. When Wolfe has been given a chance, he's produced fairly well. The problem is, he has only been given a handful of opportunities.

 

I don't know where you are getting your stats, but here's his profootballreference page:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WolfGa00.htm

I got them from NFL.com. They're the same as the ones on the site you've linked do. He ran for 120 yards on 22 carries last season. 36 of those yards came on the gadget fake punt. So if you look at the remaining yards/carries (i.e. the plays where he took a handoff on offense,) it's 84 yards on 21 carries. The reason I discount the fake punt is that it's not a good indicator of how he's performed on the plays you're saying he should get more of. If you were saying he should get more special teams snaps, I'd be all for it.

 

Look at his VERY limited opportunities. Then look at the number of big plays he's made. There are several, and that is fairly uncommon for a guy who almost never gets carries. Hell, he probably should have received a portion of Forte's carries last year since Forte stunk up the joint (which led to the acquisition of Taylor).

There are several, that's exactly the problem. There should be a lot more than "several," even on the limited touches he's had. On his 68 carries over three seasons, Wolfe has broken a run longer than 20 yards TWICE. He's only had SIX runs of 10 yards or more. Any fewer and you could literally count his big plays on one hand.

 

I'll readily admit that Wolfe's had limited opportunities, but let's put him next to some actually productive scatbacks on about the same number of attempts:

 

Garrett Wolfe (career) 68 carries, 274 yards (4.0 YPC), 1 TD

Darren Sproles (2008) 61 carries, 330 yards (5.4 YPC), 1 TD

Leon Washington (2007) 71 carries, 353 yards (5.0 YPC), 3 TD

 

And those numbers are including the fake punt that inflated Wolfe's stats last season. If you take it out, he's at 3.5 YPC for his career. I'm sorry, but the guy just doesn't measure up. I mean, he got the most touches of his career as a rookie, and he didn't even get 3 yards a tote. That's not a guy who needs more carries, it's a guy who needs to play special teams.

[LT2_3]

I like both guys.

 

Unga is a prototypical short yardage back that can learn to lead block and be a FB that you can actually use to run and catch the ball.

 

Wolfe is a pretty good scatback that was horribly misused in Turner's offense. DG - You talk about what he did with the opportunities he was given, but many of them were running up the middle. What kind of moron runs a scatback up the middle with an offensive line that isn't opening huge holes? I'm impressed that he actually had a 4.0 ypc under those circumstances.

[Mongo3451]

I like both guys.

 

Unga is a prototypical short yardage back that can learn to lead block and be a FB that you can actually use to run and catch the ball.

 

Wolfe is a pretty good scatback that was horribly misused in Turner's offense. DG - You talk about what he did with the opportunities he was given, but many of them were running up the middle. What kind of moron runs a scatback up the middle with an offensive line that isn't opening huge holes? I'm impressed that he actually had a 4.0 ypc under those circumstances.

This season, the middle should be open for the backs. There will be no more stacking the box as it was in the past. We may finally get to see the the versatility of Wolfe. And yes, I'd run him up the gut on draws and traps. I think he can be a weapon in this new offense.

[jason]

I'll readily admit that Wolfe's had limited opportunities, but let's put him next to some actually productive scatbacks on about the same number of attempts:

 

Garrett Wolfe (career) 68 carries, 274 yards (4.0 YPC), 1 TD

Darren Sproles (2008) 61 carries, 330 yards (5.4 YPC), 1 TD

Leon Washington (2007) 71 carries, 353 yards (5.0 YPC), 3 TD

 

And those numbers are including the fake punt that inflated Wolfe's stats last season. If you take it out, he's at 3.5 YPC for his career. I'm sorry, but the guy just doesn't measure up. I mean, he got the most touches of his career as a rookie, and he didn't even get 3 yards a tote. That's not a guy who needs more carries, it's a guy who needs to play special teams.

 

That's one of the most unfair comparisons I've ever seen.

 

Darren Sproles is on SD, who have a great OL.

Leon Washington is on NYJ, who have a great OL.

Garrett Wolfe on CHI, how have a horrible OL. One of the worst in the league.

 

A better comparison is between him and Forte, a guy who had the rock ALL year.

 

Runs of over 20 yards

Forte ALSO only runs of over 20 yards TWICE, but the difference is he did it in 258 carries. That's 1 big carry for every 129, or thought of another way, it's 2 per season. Wow. Wolfe by comparison has 1 big carry every 34 carries.

 

Runs of over 10 yards

Forte had 11 or 12 runs of over 10 yards last year. Once again, in 258 carries. That's one 10+ carry for every 21-23 carries. By comparison, Wolfe had 6 for 68, which is a run of 10+ yards every 11 carries.

 

I can understand if he doesn't get the carries this year because the Bears just got Taylor, and Forte is supposed to be somewhere near his rookie year. And before you bring it up, in Forte's rookie year...

 

Five runs of over 20 yards...in 316 carries...that's 1 big carry every 63 carries.

Fourteen or Fifteen runs of 10 or more yards...which is about 1:20 carries, when he was at his best.

[Pixote]

From this clip from an article on the Tribune site it makes it sound as if Unga will probably make the 53 man cut so we will certainly have to wait and see who gets cut. Maybe he will be put at FB but the article also says he has never been put in that role so it would be a project.

 

But because the Bears used a supplemental pick on Unga, something that cost them their seventh-round pick in the April 2011 draft, he is probably expected to make the 53-man roster.

 

Waiving Unga for the purpose of sliding him to the practice squad would expose him to the other 31 teams. Scouts consistently said he would have a mid-round grade in the regular April draft, so the Bears will likely want to protect their investment, one they believe was a value selection.

[nfoligno]

That's all possible (below comments from Trib) but....

 

One, the team cuts 7th round rookies every year, and in fact cuts rookies taken higher than the 7th. Not sure why a future 7th would be considered more valuabel than a current 7th.

 

Two, not sure I get the comment other teams liked him and had a regular draft 4th round grade. If all this was true, why were we able to get him in the 7th round. Any team that had even a 6th round value on him would have won him in the Supp draft. No one put in more than a 7th, and likely only a couple teams (if any others) even did that. If another teams were to sign him off our practice squad, that would mean he has to be on their 53 man roster. Not sure we have to protect him from this as much as the trib makes it sound.

 

From this clip from an article on the Tribune site it makes it sound as if Unga will probably make the 53 man cut so we will certainly have to wait and see who gets cut. Maybe he will be put at FB but the article also says he has never been put in that role so it would be a project.

 

[defiantgiant]

That's one of the most unfair comparisons I've ever seen.

 

Darren Sproles is on SD, who have a great OL.

Leon Washington is on NYJ, who have a great OL.

Garrett Wolfe on CHI, how have a horrible OL. One of the worst in the league.

 

A better comparison is between him and Forte, a guy who had the rock ALL year.

That's not a better comparison - Wolfe and Forte are entirely different running backs. Forte's an all-purpose workhorse back. I'm not saying he doesn't have to break a big run every now and again, but he can be successful just getting 4 or 5 yards at a time. Obviously, last season he couldn't even consistently do that, thanks to injuries and bad line play. But Wolfe's whole job is to break big runs. That's what he was drafted for, and that's what he's on the roster for. A bellcow runner like Forte is supposed to carry the ball 20 times a game, so it's OK if he can't rip off a big gain. Your scatback's supposed to get big chunks of yards, so it's OK if he can't carry it 20 times a game. Wolfe can't do either effectively, which is why he's been relegated to special teams.

 

I agree with you that our line played poorly, certainly worse than the Jets or the Chargers. But I think that probably had a bigger impact on Forte's role than Wolfe's. This is oversimplifying things a great deal, but I tend to think about it this way: the o-line's mostly responsible for the difference between a 5 yard run and a 1 yard run, whereas the running back's mostly responsible for the difference between a 5 yard run and a 20 yard run. Look at it this way - with a steady diet of 3-to-5-yard runs, a blown block and a stop for a loss will tank Forte's average. A good scatback can get stopped for a loss a few times, because when the line does manage to spring him, he's supposed to go for 10 or 15. Wolfe usually doesn't do that even when he gets a block, though, which is the problem.