Well Karma reared its ugly head

[Pixote]

To state it differently,

 

Anything and everything that goes wrong is Lovie's fault

 

Anything and everything that goes right is despite of Lovie

 

Seems to me Lovie is in a no win situation

[azbearsfan]

To state it differently,

 

Anything and everything that goes wrong is Lovie's fault

 

Anything and everything that goes right is despite of Lovie

 

Seems to me Lovie is in a no win situation

 

 

This.

 

 

It gets annoying, doesn't it.....

[jason]

This.

 

It gets annoying, doesn't it.....

 

Not nearly as annoying as watching the Bears get constantly outcoached and watching the Bears' players so frequently go underdeveloped...and consequently underperform.

 

Lovie isn't to blame for everything. Like most things in life, there is a medium that probably holds the truth. It comes down to percentages. What do you think Lovie's percentage is for the various failures (e.g. coaching, timing situations, hiring, player development, player usage) during his tenure? I'd say it's closer to the 100% ceiling than the 0% floor.

[GrizzlyBear]

What a Crock, If Lovie has any fault it is being way to loyal to his coaches. Turner being the one major failure, but his history showed he was quite successful in running a NFL offense. ie...Kramer passing record as a Bear. But it became quite perdictable. But to give him credit Martz pick up was brilliant at this point, And if Martz does the same for the Bears as he done for all previous teams we will call it a success for Lovie.

 

I have said this before and still feel it holds true, With the Hiring of Tice, Martz and Maranelli it will give Lovie a pass for at least 2 years. You can not expect a total change in offensive philosphy in one season. They wont put a franchise QB through that and sign Chester Taylor to multi million contract for this offense. 2 years and of this does not change things then Lovie and all them will be gone.

[Pixote]

Lovie isn't to blame for everything. Like most things in life, there is a medium that probably holds the truth. It comes down to percentages. What do you think Lovie's percentage is for the various failures (e.g. coaching, timing situations, hiring, player development, player usage) during his tenure? I'd say it's closer to the 100% ceiling than the 0% floor.

 

Percentages. Interesting thought. Totally conjecture for sure on the part of the observer.

 

Who is to blame?

 

You have Lovie HC, JA GM, Phillips, Team President, & Ownership

Then you have OC & DC

Then you have STC, OLC, DLC, DBC, etc...

And of course you have the players themselves.

 

There is plenty of people responsible. To say it is close to 100% on anyone would be an injustice.

 

What is it said, the buck stops here, so I guess it is normal for the HC to get most of the blame.

 

But is it really just the HC at fault?

 

To me the obvious answer is no.

 

To others it is all his fault.

 

I will give one small example.

 

Tommy Harris was an excellent draft choice based on talent. He kicked ass the first 3 years. Was given a big PayCheck. I can only assume JA did his job. He played well so I assume the coaches did ok by him. What has he done over the past few years? He has sucked ass. Why? I do not think it is the coaching or HC. It is not the fault of JA, Ted P., ownership. Harris IMO had more than injury problems. Injuries certainly played a part in it but his motivation was totally lacking. He talked about retiring early. To become a preacher. I honestly do not think he has shown any self motivation the past few years to overcome his injuries. He lacked "balls". (hopefully he has grown a pair in the off-season).

 

Who's fault is that? Tommy Harris and only Tommy Harris.

 

If Harris had played to his potential as he did the first 3 years the past few years how much would that have helped this team? How many more games would have been won? Would we be having this conversation?

 

Who's fault was it Tank Johnson couldn't stay out of trouble? Who's fault was it the C Benson sucked so bad as far as attitude? Did the coaches pass the pipe to R Salaam? Did the coaching staff cause D Terrell to be an ass wipe? The players controlled this. God knows they were getting paid enough where they should not have needed a coach to be a babysitter or shrink.

 

So back to the original question, what percentage of blame does each deserve for the results over the past 3 years?

 

Impossible to answer. I will give it my best shot.

 

I would say that 50% of the blame is SHARED, I will say it again, SHARED by LS, JA, TP, & Ownership.

 

How you want to divide that 50% I will leave up to you.

 

I would say 20% is to the assistant coaches & coordinators. Why only 20%. Because they do need to follow some direction from the 50% above.

 

I would say the remaining 30% is totally on the players. Don't give me this shit about how they need to be given direction. These guys should have the skills and balls to produce on the field. IMO they are not getting paid more in one year than I made in a lifetime to do anything else but go out there and kick ass.

 

There is not one piece of the puzzle that can be changed to make a significant difference. They are all intertwined.

 

There is not one person anyone can lay all the blame on, it is a shared responsibility.

 

There is a saying that there is no I in the word team. It takes everyone from the top down to win a SB.

 

Well the same goes for failure, it is a team effort. To lay all the blame on Lovie, or even the majority of the blame, is blind judgment IMO.

 

Losing is as much a team effort as winning.

 

 

[nfoligno]

The names that come to mind are Steltz, Payne, and Manning. Personally I do not thing Manning was that bad at safety and if we had ever let him play one position for more than two games at a time he might have developed, as he is no doubt quite an athlete. Payne wasn't injured all year was he? I don't honestly remember, but he was another guy who was said to be great and then disappeared into nowhere.

 

I don't remember Steltz looking "terrible," wasn't he a third round pick too? Again, is he another guy who suddenly looks great who looked bad last year?

 

Payne may not have been injured all year, but I believe went down with injury in camp, which is when Afalava took the job. And yes, Payne has dealt with injuries a lot and is one of those players the staff questions whether they can rely on.

 

DM sucks as a FS. Sorry, but no amount of playing time would change that. Sure, he has athleticism, but so do many. DM lacks instincts. It just does not matter how fast you are if you are slow to react, your still late to the play.

 

Steltz was that bad. Per all reports, and this is not just the coaches, he simply looked lost out there.

 

Are we really going to even think about starting a third round draft pick at safety? If so, I will get ready for everyone whining how bad Wright sucks after a few games. Harris should be a lock at one safety position, preferably SS IMO, it is the other safety position I am worried about...

 

Personally, I don't think Harris should be a lock. He sucked as a FS when last with the bears, and while I like him for SS, that doesn't mean he would be a lock.

 

In sum, we have Harris and a 3rd round rookie in addition to last year. I still think it is mighty strange the starter from last year is suddenly at the bottom of the depth chart. I probably would not find it so strange if it did not seem to happen so often.

 

Technically, I think Bullocks is the bottom of the depth chart. Really, who has Afalava been passed by who he was in competition with last year? Isn't Steltz the only player who has actually passed him on the depth chart? Just not sure why it is so "strange." Maybe it would be one thing if we made no changes and suddenly he is at the bottom, but we added two players, including one who you feel should be a lock to start, and the other was out top draft pick from this year.

 

I find it absolutely hilarious that some on this board would find Lovie anything less than complete crap as a HC. Noone needs to make up things to identify Lovie's weaknesses, you only have to follow the team and look at the won-loss totals. I hope the team does well, but IMO they will do so in spite of Lovie and never because of him.

 

Hey, I think Lovie is complete crap as a HC. Even if this team does well, I think it is inspite of Lovie and not due to him. I simply do not think Afalava is a good example for such reasoning.

[nfoligno]

Two interesting things about Lovie's assistants.

 

One, this year we have Lovie's ideal choice OC and DL. As I recall, Marinelli was the DC Lovie originally wanted, but TB said no. Babich was his 2nd choice, but Angelo said no. And while I am not sure about Martz originally, we know that is who Lovie really wanted this time. So there is simply no hiding behind assistants this time.

 

Two, at the same time, I also find it a bit ironic that one of our top assistants was a non-Lovie guy (Rivera). I think Don Johnson would also fit into that category.

 

While I agree the assistant hiring has not been good, I would put player development right there with it. Part of that may go on the assistants, but at some point, you have to look at the HC.

 

I find it hilarious that some on this board thinks it necessary to blame Lovie Smith for everything that happens in a negative aspect with the Bears.

 

I assure you that if the Bears Dorm rooms at camp runs out of toilet paper, it will be Lovie's fault.

 

If a player gets his steak medium well when he ordered it medium rare, you guessed it, Lovie's fault.

 

Lovie makes enough mistakes he deserves to be criticized for without some posters trying to turn every damn negative as a mistake made by Lovie.

 

Lovie's main mistake, the thing that I feel has defined his failure, is his selection of assistant coaches.

 

Hopefully this year he has gotten it right with DC, OC, & OLC.

 

If he has, we will have a very good year, we have the players IMO.

 

If not, if he blew it again on selecting his staff, he will be gone next year.

 

[nfoligno]

Actually, by rule, as the HC, yes. Lovie is to blame for everything.

 

To be serious though, who is left? Hasn't every other coach been fired or demoted? As with any company in the real world, #%#$ rolls down the hill. Lovie takes heat, and another assistant is fired. I think we have reached the point where another failed assistant falls on Lovie and he will not be able to blame those below him.

 

Not nearly as annoying as watching the Bears get constantly outcoached and watching the Bears' players so frequently go underdeveloped...and consequently underperform.

 

Lovie isn't to blame for everything. Like most things in life, there is a medium that probably holds the truth. It comes down to percentages. What do you think Lovie's percentage is for the various failures (e.g. coaching, timing situations, hiring, player development, player usage) during his tenure? I'd say it's closer to the 100% ceiling than the 0% floor.

 

[nfoligno]

Who feels Lovie is the sole person to blame? Honestly, I am not sure you could find one fan who would put 100% of the blame for the last few years on Lovie.

 

You have lived on these boards as have we all. I know you have seen the hate shot out at Angelo, Turner, Babich and many, many more. And as you point out, the players have been shredded early and often.

 

While maybe not in as great of a number, Phillips and ownership get no free passes.

 

So no one believes Lovie is the sole person responsible. BUT...

 

Take a look at the team since this regime took over. What constants are left? Most of the players who Lovie and Angelo inherited are gone. Most of the original assistants Lovie hired are gone, and many of the 2nd assistants are gone as well.

 

So that pretty much leaves Lovie, Angelo, Phillips and Ownership. Nothing is going to happen with ownership. Phillips? Maybe more likely than ownership, but not very likely overall IMHO. He does very well (financially) for the ownership. So that leaves Angelo and Lovie, the two who most fans attack.

 

I think the key reasons Lovie takes more heat are (a) assistant which is his call, not to mention a very popular assistant (Rivera) being run out of town so Lovie could promote his BFF and ( while it may be bogus, the belief that Angelo has added players, but Lovie has failed to develop them.

 

 

Percentages. Interesting thought. Totally conjecture for sure on the part of the observer.

 

Who is to blame?

 

You have Lovie HC, JA GM, Phillips, Team President, & Ownership

Then you have OC & DC

Then you have STC, OLC, DLC, DBC, etc...

And of course you have the players themselves.

 

There is plenty of people responsible. To say it is close to 100% on anyone would be an injustice.

 

What is it said, the buck stops here, so I guess it is normal for the HC to get most of the blame.

 

But is it really just the HC at fault?

 

To me the obvious answer is no.

 

To others it is all his fault.

 

I will give one small example.

 

Tommy Harris was an excellent draft choice based on talent. He kicked ass the first 3 years. Was given a big PayCheck. I can only assume JA did his job. He played well so I assume the coaches did ok by him. What has he done over the past few years? He has sucked ass. Why? I do not think it is the coaching or HC. It is not the fault of JA, Ted P., ownership. Harris IMO had more than injury problems. Injuries certainly played a part in it but his motivation was totally lacking. He talked about retiring early. To become a preacher. I honestly do not think he has shown any self motivation the past few years to overcome his injuries. He lacked "balls". (hopefully he has grown a pair in the off-season).

 

Who's fault is that? Tommy Harris and only Tommy Harris.

 

If Harris had played to his potential as he did the first 3 years the past few years how much would that have helped this team? How many more games would have been won? Would we be having this conversation?

 

Who's fault was it Tank Johnson couldn't stay out of trouble? Who's fault was it the C Benson sucked so bad as far as attitude? Did the coaches pass the pipe to R Salaam? Did the coaching staff cause D Terrell to be an ass wipe? The players controlled this. God knows they were getting paid enough where they should not have needed a coach to be a babysitter or shrink.

 

So back to the original question, what percentage of blame does each deserve for the results over the past 3 years?

 

Impossible to answer. I will give it my best shot.

 

I would say that 50% of the blame is SHARED, I will say it again, SHARED by LS, JA, TP, & Ownership.

 

How you want to divide that 50% I will leave up to you.

 

I would say 20% is to the assistant coaches & coordinators. Why only 20%. Because they do need to follow some direction from the 50% above.

 

I would say the remaining 30% is totally on the players. Don't give me this shit about how they need to be given direction. These guys should have the skills and balls to produce on the field. IMO they are not getting paid more in one year than I made in a lifetime to do anything else but go out there and kick ass.

 

There is not one piece of the puzzle that can be changed to make a significant difference. They are all intertwined.

 

There is not one person anyone can lay all the blame on, it is a shared responsibility.

 

There is a saying that there is no I in the word team. It takes everyone from the top down to win a SB.

 

Well the same goes for failure, it is a team effort. To lay all the blame on Lovie, or even the majority of the blame, is blind judgment IMO.

 

Losing is as much a team effort as winning.

 

[Pixote]

Who feels Lovie is the sole person to blame? Honestly, I am not sure you could find one fan who would put 100% of the blame for the last few years on Lovie.

 

I would strongly disagree with this assumption of yours. I am surprised, knowing you read most if not all the posts & threads, that you would even say this.

 

I have no problem with posters not giving respect to Lovie, I am not sure he deserves any, but I do disagree for him getting the blame for everything from A to Z that happens on the field.

 

I repeat what I said, you win as a team, you lose as a team, and there is plenty of blame to be assigned to many different people within the organization including players.

 

IMO, assuming the labor contract is signed, if the Bears to not make a trip to the Super Bowl, then clean house. I am not a Lovie apologist. I am not trying to defend the mediocre product that we have had to endure. I just want to see accountability properly assigned and not all blamed on Lovie.

[nfoligno]

I would strongly disagree with this assumption of yours. I am surprised, knowing you read most if not all the posts & threads, that you would even say this.

 

Really? Yea, I have read (and written) plenty of Lovie hate, but have you not read boat loads of Turner hate? How about Babich? I was ripping the OL and DL coaches for years. Angelo? Blaming Lovie is fun, but he is from the only one getting ripped.

 

I am not trying to defend the mediocre product that we have had to endure. I just want to see accountability properly assigned and not all blamed on Lovie.

 

Might not the idea of accountability be partially why fans are leaning on Lovie the most?

 

Offense sucks, so we fire Shea, then later, we fire Turner. Go through many other position coaches as well.

 

Lovie all but drives Rivera to the airport following a great defensive year and SB appearance, followed by his promoting his friend, Babich, who sucks, and finally is replaced by Lovie, who sucks and is replaced. Babich is not fired though, only demoted. Lovie is not fired, only not the DC. Meanwhile, Marinelli does nothing to improve the play of our DL, and yet is promoted.

 

Point is, you talk about accountability, but that is what all fans want. It seems like every coaching position under lovie has been held accountable (multiple times for most spots) while Lovie has remained.

 

Yes, you can talk about Angelo too, and I think most fans would agree there as well. We all want accountability, but it just seems like everyone but Lovie (and Angelo) have been held accountable.

 

Final point, just for the record. I think Lovie is here through next year. While I believe the CBA will ultimately be worked out, it will not happen early enough for our ownership to fire Lovie. No point is firing him if there isn't going to be a season, and once the deal is worked out, it will be too late to bring in a new coach. So, barring a drastic tanking this season (and I mean on the Detroit scale) I think Lovie is here through 2011.

[AZ54]

Just jumping in a bit on the safety debacle....Steltz was drafted as a FS. He was first put at that spot but didn't fare well. Likely that was because he was lost, as many rookies are and when he made a misstep he didn't have the recovery speed needed. Then we decide because of his lack of athleticism we'll put him in the competition at SS (interchangeable as it is). He didn't fare well there either. Now at the start of his third season we have him back to FS and it appears with his knowing the scheme better he's making solid reads and playing well in his more natural position.

 

Had Lovie left him at FS fulltime perhaps he'd.....nah forget it.

[Daventry]

Percentages. Interesting thought. Totally conjecture for sure on the part of the observer.

 

Who is to blame?

 

You have Lovie HC, JA GM, Phillips, Team President, & Ownership

Then you have OC & DC

Then you have STC, OLC, DLC, DBC, etc...

And of course you have the players themselves.

 

There is plenty of people responsible. To say it is close to 100% on anyone would be an injustice.

 

What is it said, the buck stops here, so I guess it is normal for the HC to get most of the blame.

 

But is it really just the HC at fault?

 

To me the obvious answer is no.

 

To others it is all his fault.

 

I will give one small example.

 

Tommy Harris was an excellent draft choice based on talent. He kicked ass the first 3 years. Was given a big PayCheck. I can only assume JA did his job. He played well so I assume the coaches did ok by him. What has he done over the past few years? He has sucked ass. Why? I do not think it is the coaching or HC. It is not the fault of JA, Ted P., ownership. Harris IMO had more than injury problems. Injuries certainly played a part in it but his motivation was totally lacking. He talked about retiring early. To become a preacher. I honestly do not think he has shown any self motivation the past few years to overcome his injuries. He lacked "balls". (hopefully he has grown a pair in the off-season).

 

Who's fault is that? Tommy Harris and only Tommy Harris.

 

If Harris had played to his potential as he did the first 3 years the past few years how much would that have helped this team? How many more games would have been won? Would we be having this conversation?

 

Who's fault was it Tank Johnson couldn't stay out of trouble? Who's fault was it the C Benson sucked so bad as far as attitude? Did the coaches pass the pipe to R Salaam? Did the coaching staff cause D Terrell to be an ass wipe? The players controlled this. God knows they were getting paid enough where they should not have needed a coach to be a babysitter or shrink.

 

So back to the original question, what percentage of blame does each deserve for the results over the past 3 years?

 

Impossible to answer. I will give it my best shot.

 

I would say that 50% of the blame is SHARED, I will say it again, SHARED by LS, JA, TP, & Ownership.

 

How you want to divide that 50% I will leave up to you.

 

I would say 20% is to the assistant coaches & coordinators. Why only 20%. Because they do need to follow some direction from the 50% above.

 

I would say the remaining 30% is totally on the players. Don't give me this shit about how they need to be given direction. These guys should have the skills and balls to produce on the field. IMO they are not getting paid more in one year than I made in a lifetime to do anything else but go out there and kick ass.

 

There is not one piece of the puzzle that can be changed to make a significant difference. They are all intertwined.

 

There is not one person anyone can lay all the blame on, it is a shared responsibility.

 

There is a saying that there is no I in the word team. It takes everyone from the top down to win a SB.

 

Well the same goes for failure, it is a team effort. To lay all the blame on Lovie, or even the majority of the blame, is blind judgment IMO.

 

Losing is as much a team effort as winning.

 

I get it, you don't think it is all Lovie's fault etc.... It may not all be his fault, but alot of it is his fault and should fall on him. The bottom line is he has not produced and he is the head coach. There are numerous examples of his incompetence. If you want to give him a pass, more power to you. Obviously alot of people around here feel differently, myself included.

 

[Daventry]

The names that come to mind are Steltz, Payne, and Manning. Personally I do not thing Manning was that bad at safety and if we had ever let him play one position for more than two games at a time he might have developed, as he is no doubt quite an athlete. Payne wasn't injured all year was he? I don't honestly remember, but he was another guy who was said to be great and then disappeared into nowhere.

 

I don't remember Steltz looking "terrible," wasn't he a third round pick too? Again, is he another guy who suddenly looks great who looked bad last year?

 

Payne may not have been injured all year, but I believe went down with injury in camp, which is when Afalava took the job. And yes, Payne has dealt with injuries a lot and is one of those players the staff questions whether they can rely on.

 

DM sucks as a FS. Sorry, but no amount of playing time would change that. Sure, he has athleticism, but so do many. DM lacks instincts. It just does not matter how fast you are if you are slow to react, your still late to the play.

 

Steltz was that bad. Per all reports, and this is not just the coaches, he simply looked lost out there.

 

Are we really going to even think about starting a third round draft pick at safety? If so, I will get ready for everyone whining how bad Wright sucks after a few games. Harris should be a lock at one safety position, preferably SS IMO, it is the other safety position I am worried about...

 

Personally, I don't think Harris should be a lock. He sucked as a FS when last with the bears, and while I like him for SS, that doesn't mean he would be a lock.

 

In sum, we have Harris and a 3rd round rookie in addition to last year. I still think it is mighty strange the starter from last year is suddenly at the bottom of the depth chart. I probably would not find it so strange if it did not seem to happen so often.

 

Technically, I think Bullocks is the bottom of the depth chart. Really, who has Afalava been passed by who he was in competition with last year? Isn't Steltz the only player who has actually passed him on the depth chart? Just not sure why it is so "strange." Maybe it would be one thing if we made no changes and suddenly he is at the bottom, but we added two players, including one who you feel should be a lock to start, and the other was out top draft pick from this year.

 

I find it absolutely hilarious that some on this board would find Lovie anything less than complete crap as a HC. Noone needs to make up things to identify Lovie's weaknesses, you only have to follow the team and look at the won-loss totals. I hope the team does well, but IMO they will do so in spite of Lovie and never because of him.

 

Hey, I think Lovie is complete crap as a HC. Even if this team does well, I think it is inspite of Lovie and not due to him. I simply do not think Afalava is a good example for such reasoning.

 

I am really not convinced Payne was out for that much time and we are relying on reports in relation to Steltz's play. Again, I believe if Manning were given a shot he would likely produce, but he would need some time in the position to learn.

 

Afalava has been passed by Steltz as well as passed over by Wright and Harris. So yes, it reminds me of the Corey Graham disappearance amongst others, Mark Bradley, etc....they are spoken of very favourably and wham they disappear. Just strange to me how someone goes so quickly from good to bad.

 

[jason]

Thank you for saving me the time. Spot on.

 

Who feels Lovie is the sole person to blame? Honestly, I am not sure you could find one fan who would put 100% of the blame for the last few years on Lovie.

 

You have lived on these boards as have we all. I know you have seen the hate shot out at Angelo, Turner, Babich and many, many more. And as you point out, the players have been shredded early and often.

 

While maybe not in as great of a number, Phillips and ownership get no free passes.

 

So no one believes Lovie is the sole person responsible. BUT...

 

Take a look at the team since this regime took over. What constants are left? Most of the players who Lovie and Angelo inherited are gone. Most of the original assistants Lovie hired are gone, and many of the 2nd assistants are gone as well.

 

So that pretty much leaves Lovie, Angelo, Phillips and Ownership. Nothing is going to happen with ownership. Phillips? Maybe more likely than ownership, but not very likely overall IMHO. He does very well (financially) for the ownership. So that leaves Angelo and Lovie, the two who most fans attack.

 

I think the key reasons Lovie takes more heat are (a) assistant which is his call, not to mention a very popular assistant (Rivera) being run out of town so Lovie could promote his BFF and ( while it may be bogus, the belief that Angelo has added players, but Lovie has failed to develop them.

 

[madlithuanian]

Well said gentlemen...

 

Actually, by rule, as the HC, yes. Lovie is to blame for everything.

 

To be serious though, who is left? Hasn't every other coach been fired or demoted? As with any company in the real world, #%#$ rolls down the hill. Lovie takes heat, and another assistant is fired. I think we have reached the point where another failed assistant falls on Lovie and he will not be able to blame those below him.

 

[madlithuanian]

Again, well said.

 

Thank you for saving me the time. Spot on.

 

[madlithuanian]

Pix, I think you're wrong. Speaking personally, I've been one of Smith's biggest detractors for a while now. However, look to last season and I was more than willing to give him a chance. He's had a ton of chances, and still makes the same mistakes. And to add to nfo's comments, I've had no problem blasting Angelo, Babitch, Tuner, and countless others including Ted and ownership.

 

Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around...but I and many others feel like Smith's rec'd a pass for far too long, and we've seen too much of the same blunders over and over again. So, henceforth the venom spewed out towards Smith.

 

You do win as a team and lose as a team...however it's easier to replace the leasr for a failing ship, than replace the entire ship-board crew. And from what I've seen, the crew isn't bad. Why are they playing bad and why aren't they developing? I'm not sure, but that's on Smith.

 

I would strongly disagree with this assumption of yours. I am surprised, knowing you read most if not all the posts & threads, that you would even say this.

 

I have no problem with posters not giving respect to Lovie, I am not sure he deserves any, but I do disagree for him getting the blame for everything from A to Z that happens on the field.

 

I repeat what I said, you win as a team, you lose as a team, and there is plenty of blame to be assigned to many different people within the organization including players.

 

IMO, assuming the labor contract is signed, if the Bears to not make a trip to the Super Bowl, then clean house. I am not a Lovie apologist. I am not trying to defend the mediocre product that we have had to endure. I just want to see accountability properly assigned and not all blamed on Lovie.

 

[Pixote]

Hey, I am not apologizing for Lovie, or making excuses for him.

 

I am just saying that the problem goes beyond Lovie and he can not be blamed for everything that happens.

 

Despite denials, that is exactly what I am hearing on the forum. It's all Lovie's fault.

 

Every decision made is questioned and Lovie is called out.

 

Even the possible demotion of ALvalva (I know I spelled it wrong) was turned into a indictment of Lovie.

 

As HC he obviously has to take a lot of the blame, granted.

 

If the team fails this year he obviously has to be the first one out the door, assuming JA is retained.

 

If JA gets canned also, then the new GM will start the rebuilding process by hiring a new HC.

 

Simple as that.

 

This topic is getting old. I rest my case. I have said all I care to about this.

[nfoligno]

I made a big deal about how we handled Graham last year too. He started at CB his 2nd year (1st was lost due to injury) and while he wasn't great, he wasn't bad either. Then in the offseason, he is not even allowed to compete at CB and moved between nickel and FS. I just didn't understand it, until I read an article that talked about how Hoke (our new DB coach last year) didn't feel Graham had the speed to play the position and simply moved him without giving him a chance to prove otherwise. I read this past offseason, Graham put a lot of work into speed training, as well as getting healthy, which supposedly has him faster than previous, and thus he is back in the mix at CB. Still think it was a poor decision, but at least I understand the reasoning.

 

I will always disagree when it comes to Bradley. Yea, he looked good in small flashes, but (a) he came to the team VERY raw as he was never even a starter in college and ( he was always getting injured and not a player who could be relied on. We send him packing and he plays for KC, where he started out looking pretty decent, but (shock) goes down with an injury. KC cut him midseason. He picked up with TB, where he didn't impress, and I believe they cut him as well. I don't think he is even on a roster now.

 

There are some moves I would agree with you 100%, and Graham would be an example. Other examples? Constantly moving Idonije back and forth between DT and DE, asking him to add/lose weight seemingly every year. Moving DM all over. Most shocking to me is, DM proved very capable as a nickel DB, but rather than let him develop where he showed the most promise, we continue to move him around. Hell, you could just about place every S we have had over the years into this category, as we never seem to know where to play them.

 

But when it comes to Afalava, I just don't think there is as great of an issue here. He didn't finish the season well, and started camp behind the veteran addition, top pick rookie and another S (Steltz) who did finish the year on a high note and played well in OTAs.

 

I am really not convinced Payne was out for that much time and we are relying on reports in relation to Steltz's play. Again, I believe if Manning were given a shot he would likely produce, but he would need some time in the position to learn.

 

Afalava has been passed by Steltz as well as passed over by Wright and Harris. So yes, it reminds me of the Corey Graham disappearance amongst others, Mark Bradley, etc....they are spoken of very favourably and wham they disappear. Just strange to me how someone goes so quickly from good to bad.

 

[lemonej]

Who were these other options you mention? DM sucks at S. We have all seen it and know it. Steltz looked awful last year during camp. Graham was experimented with at FS, but that experiment didn't last long. Payne I think was injured. When you say we had other options, who were you thinking about.

 

Afalava was the best of these options, but that doesn't mean he was a steller performer. He played better than the rest in camp, and was promoted. Give the staff credit for doing that in the first place. But Afalava never develop from that point.

 

Further, while we looked ugly in terms of options last year, it isn't quite so bad this year. We have added Harris and Wright. Steltz has been the bright some through OTAs. And DM has been moved to SS. So this year we actually do have options where we simply didn't last year.

Nfo Alfalava was demoted from the lineup in the same manner that Harris was when he was in his first year here as was Payne. You have said that this position has been handled the worst and if we add up all the players that have been drafted by JA at this position it all points to Lovie not being satisfied with anyone besides Mike Brown.

[nfoligno]

Honestly, I think a book could be written based on how this team has handled the safety position over the last 5-8 years.

 

Angelo continually used later round picks to draft safeties who, by all reports, fit the in-the-box style. We then try each of these players at FS, and they fail. We continually move them back and forth between safety positions, never allowing them to develop, and IMHO, killing their confidence.

 

Honestly, I could go on and on about how we have handled this unit, and have in the past, but what's the point.

 

At the same time, I simply can not disagree with the Afalava demotion. While he earned the job in camp last year, how much was due to his playing that good as opposed to the rest looking that bad? He started okay, but then really regressed. Meanwhile, Steltz gets a couple starts late and looks good. Then we have our offseason in which we draft Wright and trade for Harris. Also, Steltz follows up his strong finish with a very strong string of OTAs, and from what I have read, has continued that into camp.

 

Honestly, for all the talk about Afalava, has anyone really heard about him looking great in OTA or camp? With the injuries hitting our safeties, everyone is getting plenty of PT. Harris has missed most of camp, and Wright even went down with injury. I have read good things about Wright (prior to injury) and a lot of good about Steltz, but I have yet to read about Afalava looking good.

 

Hey, I hate how we have handled the safety unit over the years but I don't want to assume everything is equal or the same. While the path of Afalava may be similar to that of other young safeties, I simply see justification for the move this time.

 

Nfo Alfalava was demoted from the lineup in the same manner that Harris was when he was in his first year here as was Payne. You have said that this position has been handled the worst and if we add up all the players that have been drafted by JA at this position it all points to Lovie not being satisfied with anyone besides Mike Brown.

 

[Daventry]

Honestly, I think a book could be written based on how this team has handled the safety position over the last 5-8 years.

 

Angelo continually used later round picks to draft safeties who, by all reports, fit the in-the-box style. We then try each of these players at FS, and they fail. We continually move them back and forth between safety positions, never allowing them to develop, and IMHO, killing their confidence.

 

Honestly, I could go on and on about how we have handled this unit, and have in the past, but what's the point.

 

At the same time, I simply can not disagree with the Afalava demotion. While he earned the job in camp last year, how much was due to his playing that good as opposed to the rest looking that bad? He started okay, but then really regressed. Meanwhile, Steltz gets a couple starts late and looks good. Then we have our offseason in which we draft Wright and trade for Harris. Also, Steltz follows up his strong finish with a very strong string of OTAs, and from what I have read, has continued that into camp.

 

Honestly, for all the talk about Afalava, has anyone really heard about him looking great in OTA or camp? With the injuries hitting our safeties, everyone is getting plenty of PT. Harris has missed most of camp, and Wright even went down with injury. I have read good things about Wright (prior to injury) and a lot of good about Steltz, but I have yet to read about Afalava looking good.

 

Hey, I hate how we have handled the safety unit over the years but I don't want to assume everything is equal or the same. While the path of Afalava may be similar to that of other young safeties, I simply see justification for the move this time.

 

 

I always keep in mind that most, if not all, of what we hear about training camp is what the Bears want us to hear. In addition, perception of the coaches is always going to overrule "appearance." I am not certain about the Afalava situation, but I certainly do wonder about it, particularly due to the history of decision making of Lovie and staff...

[nfoligno]

One thing to understand, I don't not blame anyone who questions this staff, with regard to Afalava or whatever else. This staff has done little to earn blind faith/trust and in fact has done plenty to kill such trust. But when I look at the situation, I simply feel there are differences here than with other times. On the surface, its yet another time our staff has screwed with the development of a young DB. When I look a bit deeper though, I see differenced.

 

Regarding hearing what the Bears want us to hear, that is only partially true. If you read something on the Bears website, then you are likely reading Bear's PR. If you read something specifically from our staff, then you may well be hearing a PR angle of the issue at hand. But camp is open, with media and fans attending. If a reporter, not on the bears payroll, talks about a player looking good in camp practices, that might be more believable. If several reports (attending camp) from different papers or media outlets have similar stories, then I think it becomes pretty believable.

 

For example, I have read numerous reporters talking about how Omiyale is struggling, both in protection and avoiding penalties. I think this is pretty believable as there is no reason for several reporters with various bosses to lie. Similar, I have read from several media sources (attending camp) that Steltz is looking good. Thus why would I not believe it?

 

I always keep in mind that most, if not all, of what we hear about training camp is what the Bears want us to hear. In addition, perception of the coaches is always going to overrule "appearance." I am not certain about the Afalava situation, but I certainly do wonder about it, particularly due to the history of decision making of Lovie and staff...

 

[lemonej]

One thing to understand, I don't not blame anyone who questions this staff, with regard to Afalava or whatever else. This staff has done little to earn blind faith/trust and in fact has done plenty to kill such trust. But when I look at the situation, I simply feel there are differences here than with other times. On the surface, its yet another time our staff has screwed with the development of a young DB. When I look a bit deeper though, I see differenced.

 

Regarding hearing what the Bears want us to hear, that is only partially true. If you read something on the Bears website, then you are likely reading Bear's PR. If you read something specifically from our staff, then you may well be hearing a PR angle of the issue at hand. But camp is open, with media and fans attending. If a reporter, not on the bears payroll, talks about a player looking good in camp practices, that might be more believable. If several reports (attending camp) from different papers or media outlets have similar stories, then I think it becomes pretty believable.

 

For example, I have read numerous reporters talking about how Omiyale is struggling, both in protection and avoiding penalties. I think this is pretty believable as there is no reason for several reporters with various bosses to lie. Similar, I have read from several media sources (attending camp) that Steltz is looking good. Thus why would I not believe it?

I noticed a few false starts on Tuesday myself and it seems there is a little tension going on on the O-line that may be based on the competition factor. BTW Garza looked in mid season form grabbing D-linemen's jerseys.