FF Keeper League Voting

[nfoligno]

Brad, your killing me.

 

Thanks you for the 1 keeper vote, but how about the other issues which must be decided, and detailed in the first post.

 

What do you give up to keep that player. Can you keep 1st rounders. How do we setup draft order.

 

Those, IMHO, are the big ones which must be decided.

 

1 keeper

 

[nfoligno]

Flea, I guess it depends on what you most like.

 

For me, the draft is one of the most fun aspects of FF (even if my drafting isn't all that). You put a lot of time and energy into research and setup for your draft, and then have the event. If every team keeps a bunch of players, the draft really ends up being close to a joke. Not saying 2 keepers would do this, but if you have a bunch, you would end up with DA or Hester being 1st round picks.

 

So those who usually only want one keeper likely love the draft, and don't want to dilute it too much, while also liking the idea of being able to keep your best player or best value player from the previous year.

 

In regard to compensation, some basic concepts carry over for me. I don't love the idea of keeping 1st rounders because (a) your first round picks are as often as not based on the luck of draft order. AP was one team X because team X got lucky when the computer spit out the draft order. Team Z simply never had a chance to draft AP. After the 1st round, every player has been passed on by every owner, and thus, that argument no longer applies. And ( as said before, if you allow 1st round keepers, you take too many elite players out of the draft, diluting it.

 

Now, looking at last years 1st round, that argument doesn't look as strong, but more often I think the previous year's 1st round picks are likely this year's first round picks.

 

Finally, compensation. I am a very big proponent on giving up a round earlier than drafted. It brings a higher level of strategy into the mix. Take the team that drafted Chris Johnson in the 2nd. To me, if he wants to keep CJ, that is fine, but it would cost him his 1st round pick. Ditto for someone who took X in the 3rd. Cost his a 2nd. It brings a level of strategy because you have to ask, as good as that player is, would you be better off keeping a guy who broke out last year and you only spent a 10th on, or the stud who would cost you a high pick. I like leagues that reward for taking chances on draft day, and simply getting to keep your top picks from the previous year doesn't really fit that mold.

 

While I'll go with the majority I don't like 1 keeper ya may as well just run a normal league

 

[nfoligno]

Technically speaking, I have about 4 players, maybe more, I would like to keep as well. Mendenhall, Hakeem Nicks, Rothlisberger (despite the suspension) and Celek. All were taken after the 13th round I think, with Rothlisberger and Celek being closer to the 20 spot. Also have a couple nearer the top that wouldn't hurt to keep depending on compensation.

 

But while I would love to add these players, I just hate to dilute the draft too much.

 

I had thought about adding a franchise player element to our league (getting to keep one player forever) but seriously. We are taking months to decise the most basic things. No way I want to complicate the issue further.

 

One keeper is more the norm for this type of thing. I have 4 I would like to keep, so I am favor of having 4 keepers and then that would make us a very unique league. the problem is the draft would suck. So to clear everything up, lets just let the league members have there say and be done with it. I am voting for 4 keepers, but my next vote is for ONE,

 

[nfoligno]

I perfer one keeper, so it keeps the draft fresh and more interesting.

 

Agreed.

 

I think you should be able to keep the keeper for the year you picked him and the next year. Otherwise, why have a keeper league, might as well just draft.

 

Huh? The minimum discussion for the keeper is the year you picked him and the next year, which you mention. Some though would like an additional year or two on top of that. Sort of like a franchise player. Or did I misunderstand you post, and that you would like to keep a player the original draft year, and two years after that?

 

I perfer losing the round you picked the keeper in to be skipped. If we do the round before, it eliminates the first round and most of the teams have there best player picked in that round if they are any good.

 

While other areas I have a preference, this is one I simply truly disagree with. I prefer to eliminate the 1st round. Last year may not be the best example of this, but think about all those years players like LT, Larry Johnson, etc simply dominated the top of the draft. Did a team really do anything special to draft LT? No, they simply got lucky when the computer spit out the draft order. I just do not agree with rewarding an owner by allowing him to keep the league's elite simply because the computer spit out a favorable draft slot. I far more like rewarding owners who hit gold on picks later that exploded onto the scene, like your pick of Ray Rice. To me, the keeper option should reward the owner who had the forsight to take a player like Ray Rice, rather than the owner who simply was lucky when the computer spit out the draft order allowing them to take MDJ or whoever near the top.

 

What ever we do with the money, just make sure it gets posted now instead of leaving it open.

 

Agreed totally, and I think most feel that way. Unless I hear anyone scream about it, I think we can simply put this aspect of the discussion in the hands of the commish. Seems everyone is pretty okay with most anything here, so long as the decision is set in advance.

 

[flea]

Right I have set up a free simple website for the keeper league. Be nice to have one. Now it has a forum & I have posted a topic for everything that needs to be voted on. If everyone pm's me their e-mailI'll send an invite & we can vote away there, simple yes or no.

 

If y'all feel theres no need for it then we can just ignor eit

[bradjock]

 

Brad, your killing me.

 

I aim to annoy For some reason I just don't give a damn about debating the rules. I'll be even more annoying by giving my answers here and unintentionally

 

What do you give up to keep that player.

 

Give up one round higher unless it's in the 1st round (I'll elaborate)

 

Can you keep 1st rounders.

 

Yes. I say this for two reasons:

1. If a guy takes you to the championship, and since it's a keeper league, the manager should have the chance to retain them.

2. I really don't mind doing this since the plan often backfires. For instance, if you'd taken Brian Westbrook in the first in 2008, you'd have been happy as hell to take him #1 in 2009 since it's a PPR league. That's not much of a reward. But it allows the manager to make his own bad decision.

 

How do we setup draft order.

 

My vote is random. But if I may complicate thingsngs by presenting a 3rd option: I like the idea of a manager being able to pick their draft spot. If given the choice, last year I'd have chosen to go 7th or 8th since I was 110% convinced that Tom Brady was going to repeat his 2008 performance and I figured he'd be available. (ironically, he was there at #10, I drafted him, and he wasn't even a top 5 fantasy QB).

 

How about this: We do something random like, "How many points will the Bears score in their first 3 pre-season games?" (I say 1st 3 because we need to get this determined ASAP) Whoever guesses the closest, gets to choose their spot. 2nd picks 2nd, and so on. The tie-breaker could be points the defense allows.

 

 

[nfoligno]

I aim to annoy For some reason I just don't give a damn about debating the rules. I'll be even more annoying by giving my answers here and unintentionally

 

As much as I love to debate, I am with you. I just want things settled.

 

Give up one round higher unless it's in the 1st round (I'll elaborate)

 

Can you keep 1st rounders.

 

Yes. I say this for two reasons:

1. If a guy takes you to the championship, and since it's a keeper league, the manager should have the chance to retain them.

2. I really don't mind doing this since the plan often backfires. For instance, if you'd taken Brian Westbrook in the first in 2008, you'd have been happy as hell to take him #1 in 2009 since it's a PPR league. That's not much of a reward. But it allows the manager to make his own bad decision.

 

Okay, give up one round higher, but still allow to keep 1st round picks.

 

My vote is random. But if I may complicate thingsngs by presenting a 3rd option: I like the idea of a manager being able to pick their draft spot. If given the choice, last year I'd have chosen to go 7th or 8th since I was 110% convinced that Tom Brady was going to repeat his 2008 performance and I figured he'd be available. (ironically, he was there at #10, I drafted him, and he wasn't even a top 5 fantasy QB).

 

How about this: We do something random like, "How many points will the Bears score in their first 3 pre-season games?" (I say 1st 3 because we need to get this determined ASAP) Whoever guesses the closest, gets to choose their spot. 2nd picks 2nd, and so on. The tie-breaker could be points the defense allows.

 

Did I mention that you are killing me

 

Actually, I kind of like your proposal. Very very different, with a fun element. I say that if "random" wins, we go with this proposal.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Alaskan,

 

Were you in the league last year?

 

There was a keeper league last year?

 

I did the "traditional" FF with folks from this site in the past. One that Pix used to run but didn't do a keeper last year.... that I recall.

 

[madlithuanian]

I don't like the pre-season guessing at all. Names out of a hat seems more fair. It's still guesswork, but anything involving pre-season needs to be kicked to the curb!

[bradjock]

I don't like the pre-season guessing at all. Names out of a hat seems more fair. It's still guesswork, but anything involving pre-season needs to be kicked to the curb!

 

I have no problem with the names out of the hat. But I do like giving managers the choice of where they'd like to draft. Heck, I'd normally prefer to be #5. After that top pick, it's better to be in the middle.

 

I just threw this out to make the pre-season slightly meaningful. Considering one of the most important things to watch for this presason is, "Who will win the starting job between Idonije & Anderson!" (Ok, the real story is, "How will the Martz offense look")

 

Either way, I'll be happy if I can finish as high as 4th again

[nfoligno]

For me, the key is for the draft to be random. Simply do not understand the logic behind using last years rankings for the draft this year. The real life NFL rules in this regard simply do not carry over (IMHO). As for how it is done, I could not care less. The pre-season thing sounded fun, but I just don't care. I just like the random aspect.

 

As for allowing teams to choose where they pick, again, I would be fine with that. If, for example, computer spits out the random order, and I have the 1st pick but want the 5th, pick, I get to choose. I like that. Exception to this is if we allow 1st round keepers. I should not be allowed to "choose" the 10th pick and keep my 1st from last year, thus giving me the 1st pick in the 2nd round. Know what I mean?

 

I have no problem with the names out of the hat. But I do like giving managers the choice of where they'd like to draft. Heck, I'd normally prefer to be #5. After that top pick, it's better to be in the middle.

 

I just threw this out to make the pre-season slightly meaningful. Considering one of the most important things to watch for this presason is, "Who will win the starting job between Idonije & Anderson!" (Ok, the real story is, "How will the Martz offense look")

 

Either way, I'll be happy if I can finish as high as 4th again

 

[flea]

For me, the key is for the draft to be random. Simply do not understand the logic behind using last years rankings for the draft this year. The real life NFL rules in this regard simply do not carry over (IMHO). As for how it is done, I could not care less. The pre-season thing sounded fun, but I just don't care. I just like the random aspect.

 

As for allowing teams to choose where they pick, again, I would be fine with that. If, for example, computer spits out the random order, and I have the 1st pick but want the 5th, pick, I get to choose. I like that. Exception to this is if we allow 1st round keepers. I should not be allowed to "choose" the 10th pick and keep my 1st from last year, thus giving me the 1st pick in the 2nd round. Know what I mean?

 

 

Now we're just making it confusing just let Yahoo random it an hour before draft. Simple

[nfoligno]

Hey, simple works for me too. Maybe in the future, when other "issues" we are still trying to workout are settled we can look into new ways to do this or that, like the draft. I tend to agree with you that this year, with so many other issues still being discussed, simple is better. I still vote for a random draft order, regardless how we do it.

 

Now we're just making it confusing just let Yahoo random it an hour before draft. Simple

 

[madlithuanian]

I like the idea of picking your slot...no problem there!

 

I hear you on trying to make the pre-season interesting. But I look at a fantasy league and the pre-season as 2 really seperate things.

 

I have no problem with the names out of the hat. But I do like giving managers the choice of where they'd like to draft. Heck, I'd normally prefer to be #5. After that top pick, it's better to be in the middle.

 

I just threw this out to make the pre-season slightly meaningful. Considering one of the most important things to watch for this presason is, "Who will win the starting job between Idonije & Anderson!" (Ok, the real story is, "How will the Martz offense look")

 

Either way, I'll be happy if I can finish as high as 4th again

 

[Stinger226]

Now we're just making it confusing just let Yahoo random it an hour before draft. Simple

I totally agree, I picked 9th last year and finished 2nd(should have won it ). I dont care where I pick, its about being smart enough with who you pick and when that makes it interesting. You cant always goe by professional rankings, that means you would have selected Forte very high and that didnt turn out to well.You just have to inject your opinion into the draft and roll the dice. I thought Ray Rice was going to a breakout year and would have took him higher but everybody selected there running backs earlier and were on to there other positions and knew he would last.

 

The problem with letting everyone pick there slot, is what if two people want the same slot? Then we go deeper into confusion.

SO random slotting by the computer.

 

one keeper ( was just trying to over due the 4 keeper vote) to show how ridiculious the keeper rule can be.

 

Keeper for two total years

 

the round before the keeper to lose is ok with me, but that confuses keepers in the first round for those who wanted them. One plahyer is not going to make or break your team

 

[nfoligno]

Sting,

 

One question/clarification. I believe you are voting to lose the round before you selected the player, but at the same time, are you saying you think we should allow 1st round keepers? Just trying to clarify.

 

I agree one player does not make or break your team. You can have the best FF player, but if the rest of your team is garbage, you are not going to win. For me, the issue about 1st round keepers is more about fairness. Last year, for example, whoever was lucky enough to have the computer spit out a high pick was able to get players like AP, MJD, etc. Sure, even these picks can flop (Forte) but the point is, the ability to draft these players was due to the draft order and nothing more. After the 1st round, no one can say they didn't have a chance to draft whoever. Take Ray Rice for example. If you really wanted him, and didn't get him later, you couldn't complain because push comes to shove, you could have taken him with your first pick. That is why I usually don't like the option to keep 1st round players.

 

Anyway, that is how I feel, but regardless, if you could clarify your position on this.

 

I totally agree, I picked 9th last year and finished 2nd(should have won it ). I dont care where I pick, its about being smart enough with who you pick and when that makes it interesting. You cant always goe by professional rankings, that means you would have selected Forte very high and that didnt turn out to well.You just have to inject your opinion into the draft and roll the dice. I thought Ray Rice was going to a breakout year and would have took him higher but everybody selected there running backs earlier and were on to there other positions and knew he would last.

 

The problem with letting everyone pick there slot, is what if two people want the same slot? Then we go deeper into confusion.

SO random slotting by the computer.

 

one keeper ( was just trying to over due the 4 keeper vote) to show how ridiculious the keeper rule can be.

 

Keeper for two total years

 

the round before the keeper to lose is ok with me, but that confuses keepers in the first round for those who wanted them. One plahyer is not going to make or break your team

 

[Stinger226]

Sting,

 

One question/clarification. I believe you are voting to lose the round before you selected the player, but at the same time, are you saying you think we should allow 1st round keepers? Just trying to clarify.

 

I agree one player does not make or break your team. You can have the best FF player, but if the rest of your team is garbage, you are not going to win. For me, the issue about 1st round keepers is more about fairness. Last year, for example, whoever was lucky enough to have the computer spit out a high pick was able to get players like AP, MJD, etc. Sure, even these picks can flop (Forte) but the point is, the ability to draft these players was due to the draft order and nothing more. After the 1st round, no one can say they didn't have a chance to draft whoever. Take Ray Rice for example. If you really wanted him, and didn't get him later, you couldn't complain because push comes to shove, you could have taken him with your first pick. That is why I usually don't like the option to keep 1st round players.

 

Anyway, that is how I feel, but regardless, if you could clarify your position on this.

I think some people want to use the first round picks as there keeper, and in a keeper league, it might not be fair to not have that choice, but in all fairness everyone loses the first round option, so that should be equal to everyone. I will agree with the 2nd round on for keepers. In one league I am in you only get to keep a keeper from the 6 th round and up, and lose it in the round you picked it in and that works well. Last year I had picker Cris Johnson in the 9th round from the year before, and had the stud for last year. I always project with my latter picks someone that could be good going forward, so later picks seem to work out for me.

[nfoligno]

I'm with you. For me, the favorite part of keeper leagues is how you draft, particularly later in the draft. For the most part, the first 5-7 or so rounds of any FF draft are going to be about the same. Some players taken higher than others, but for the most part, the same players are selected.

 

What is fun for me is the players you start taking later in the draft. The sleepers and potential keepers. You start taking rookies or 2nd year player who did little to nothing their rookie year. You take players coming off injury or who moved to a new system few think they play well in. In other words, you start taking bigger risks.

 

The early part of my draft was not much to write home about, but mid to late, I picked up Mendenhall, Hakeem Nicks, Rothlisberger and Brent Celek. I am surprised Rothlisberger fell that far, but the other three were the exact type I like to go after for keeper potential.

 

I don't have a problem with owners keeping higher picked players, but that is also why I like to add the one round ahead rule, as it adds a level of strategy and makes an owner think twice.

 

As I said in the past, at the end of the day, you feel what you have done in the past is likely the best way, and this is how my local FF league did it for about a decade.

 

I think some people want to use the first round picks as there keeper, and in a keeper league, it might not be fair to not have that choice, but in all fairness everyone loses the first round option, so that should be equal to everyone. I will agree with the 2nd round on for keepers. In one league I am in you only get to keep a keeper from the 6 th round and up, and lose it in the round you picked it in and that works well. Last year I had picker Cris Johnson in the 9th round from the year before, and had the stud for last year. I always project with my latter picks someone that could be good going forward, so later picks seem to work out for me.

 

[DrunkBomber]

So did you guys decide or do we need to vote again?

[nfoligno]

Man, I just don't know. It seems like everytime there is a call for a vote, it gets more complicated.

 

What I think the general (not unanimous) opinion is:

 

- 1 keeper - This is one of the few things we voted on last season.

 

- Allow 1st round keepers. Not my vote, but I seem to be in the minority on this one.

 

- Lose a round ahead of where you draft. I think this is what the majority felt, though I am not fully sure how it works with the 1st round aspect. I am not sure there are many 1st round keepers, so many it doesn't matter (right now). Or maybe if you keep a 1st rounder, it will dictate where you pick in the draft, for example, if you keep you 1st, you pick 1st, which means you pick last in the 2nd round. Make sense?

 

- I think the random ordering of the draft started to win out after early calls for draft order to be based on last year. Discussion of using preseason games or other methods didn't gain traction, and simply keeping it with a random selection seemed to preferred.

 

- Install a new payout for the team that puts up the best one week score (starters).

 

- Increase buy in by $5 to $25.

 

- For payout, winner of best score gets $25. The remaining money is split 60/30/10, which is what I believe was the payout last year.

 

I am not saying this for fact, but what I believe the general opinions were in the end. At this time, we really just need to set the rules in stone (for this year at least) so we can move forward.

 

Final Question. Do we have our 10? Last I saw, we were sitting at 9. I can't recall who, but someone who played last year said he was not sure if he was going to play again (not Pix). I think we need to get a final word from that owner, and if he is out, invite one more to keep our number at 10.

 

So did you guys decide or do we need to vote again?

 

[flea]

Man, I just don't know. It seems like everytime there is a call for a vote, it gets more complicated.

 

What I think the general (not unanimous) opinion is:

 

- 1 keeper - This is one of the few things we voted on last season.

 

- Allow 1st round keepers. Not my vote, but I seem to be in the minority on this one.

 

- Lose a round ahead of where you draft. I think this is what the majority felt, though I am not fully sure how it works with the 1st round aspect. I am not sure there are many 1st round keepers, so many it doesn't matter (right now). Or maybe if you keep a 1st rounder, it will dictate where you pick in the draft, for example, if you keep you 1st, you pick 1st, which means you pick last in the 2nd round. Make sense? - I think the random ordering of the draft started to win out after early calls for draft order to be based on last year. Discussion of using preseason games or other methods didn't gain traction, and simply keeping it with a random selection seemed to preferred.

 

- Install a new payout for the team that puts up the best one week score (starters).

 

- Increase buy in by $5 to $25.

 

- For payout, winner of best score gets $25. The remaining money is split 60/30/10, which is what I believe was the payout last year.

 

I am not saying this for fact, but what I believe the general opinions were in the end. At this time, we really just need to set the rules in stone (for this year at least) so we can move forward.

 

Final Question. Do we have our 10? Last I saw, we were sitting at 9. I can't recall who, but someone who played last year said he was not sure if he was going to play again (not Pix). I think we need to get a final word from that owner, and if he is out, invite one more to keep our number at 10.

 

 

These are the ones that need to be sorted now if your loosing a pick before you drafted your keeper then you need to forget 1st round keepers. If you loose the round you drafted in then keep 1st rounders.

 

The 1 keeper being the choice, is that just based on last seasons voting or recent topics in thread? If last year has anyone changed their opinion.

 

I think we could vote on these or at least the first. Start a poll & be done with it.

 

Payout is grand random draft order grand & the extra prize all grand

[nfoligno]

One keeper is more based on last years vote than anything. We can't agree on crap right now, so the one thing we did vote and agree on, I didn't want to jus scrap and put that on the table too. If the group chooses to vote again, fine. Hell, I have 4 players I would love to keep, so that would be fine with me on some level. I just question putting that back on the table when we are having as much trouble with the other issues.

 

I will see if I can put together a poll.

 

These are the ones that need to be sorted now if your loosing a pick before you drafted your keeper then you need to forget 1st round keepers. If you loose the round you drafted in then keep 1st rounders.

 

The 1 keeper being the choice, is that just based on last seasons voting or recent topics in thread? If last year has anyone changed their opinion.

 

I think we could vote on these or at least the first. Start a poll & be done with it.

 

Payout is grand random draft order grand & the extra prize all grand