I Need Some Help!!

[lemonej]

Can someone go on the suntimes web site and post a link to the 50 greatest Bears? I'm not savy enough to do this myself. Its some interesting names on there and one terrible ommission.

[nfoligno]

50 Greatest Bears

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...50.photogallery

 

 

 

Can someone go on the suntimes web site and post a link to the 50 greatest Bears? I'm not savy enough to do this myself. Its some interesting names on there and one terrible ommission.

 

[nfoligno]

Deleted. Missed Singletary the first time through, but he is there at #11.

[Pixote]

You mean to tell me that Halas just barely squeaked into the top 50 with Butler ranked ahead of him?

 

Something seems terribly wrong with the rankings. I agree with most, but Halas at #50?

[nfoligno]

To be honest, there are a lot I disagree with in terms of how the players were ranked, like Red Grange listed at #40. I loved the punky QB, but honestly, above Grange?

 

 

You mean to tell me that Halas just barely squeaked into the top 50 with Butler ranked ahead of him?

 

Something seems terribly wrong with the rankings. I agree with most, but Halas at #50?

 

[Pixote]

Grange is a top 10 Bear. I am not sure McM even gets into my top 40.

[lemonej]

I take issue with Olin Kreutz being listed and not Mike Pyle a HOF center.

[lemonej]

You mean to tell me that Halas just barely squeaked into the top 50 with Butler ranked ahead of him?

 

Something seems terribly wrong with the rankings. I agree with most, but Halas at #50?

That one rubbed me wrong also this guy started the Bears so he should automatically be number one IMO.

[nfoligno]

Did they only include players, or did they include coaches/personnel/etc.? I only recall players.

 

Way before my time, but as crucial as Halas was to the organization (and sport in general) if the ranking is based solely on the individual as a player, should he be ranked higher? While I know much of Halas in terms of what he did to create the league, owner/coach for the team etc., I really don't know that much about him as a player.

 

That one rubbed me wrong also this guy started the Bears so he should automatically be number one IMO.

 

[nfoligno]

I am not saying anything about Pyle, but there is no question in my mind Kreutz should be in there. Fans are hard on him today as he is at the end of his career, but he was a perrenial pro bowl player, and for some time considered the top (or one of the top 3) centers in the game.

 

Again, not saying Pyle shouldn't be in there, nor am I saying anything as to where Pyle would be ranked compared to Kreutz (I don't know enough about Pyle). I am simply saying I think it legit Kreutz is on the list.

 

I take issue with Olin Kreutz being listed and not Mike Pyle a HOF center.

 

[nfoligno]

If we are basing this on individual talent or stats, McM doesn't belong in the top 50. I think McM often gets thrown in there because he was a very charasmatic QB for our SB champtionship team. But damn. When you go back and look at his stats, they make Kyle Orton look all-pro.

 

Grange is a top 10 Bear. I am not sure McM even gets into my top 40.

 

[Pixote]

Halas was a damn good player in his time and held several all time records for quite some time. No, he would not have made it into the Hall of Fame on his playing alone. But then again, there were quite a few on the list who will never make it into the hall either.

[nfoligno]

Got it, thanks. As I said, tad before my time. Pix, it must have been great watching him live

 

Halas was a damn good player in his time and held several all time records for quite some time. No, he would not have made it into the Hall of Fame on his playing alone. But then again, there were quite a few on the list who will never make it into the hall either.

 

[madlithuanian]

You guys are too harsh on Jimmy Mac! I do think Red needs to be before him, but he was freakin' really good! Out of 50 Bears, he should be in the 50... You poo poo his skills too much based on his character... He put up excellent numbers and was a TRUE leader in every sense. His O line would kill for him. That speaks volumes...

 

 

 

If we are basing this on individual talent or stats, McM doesn't belong in the top 50. I think McM often gets thrown in there because he was a very charasmatic QB for our SB champtionship team. But damn. When you go back and look at his stats, they make Kyle Orton look all-pro.

 

[nfoligno]

The year we won the SB, Jimmy Macs stats

 

2,400 yards, 15 TDs and 11 picks.

 

That represented his career highest yardage and TD totals. Should also be pointed out he was a sub 60% completion percentage.

 

His TD numbers as a Bear: 9, 12, 8, 155, 12, 6. His numbers didn't improve after Chicago either. Not only did he not throw a lot of scores, he also threw a lot of picks (in comparison to TDs).

 

Hey, we all loved his moxie during that SB run, but the fact is, his numbers were VERY pedestrian.

 

Orton had more yards, scores and a better completion %, and he was run out of town. Jim Miller had similar numbers the year he took us to the playoffs, and few would call Miller a good QB. Hell, most would question the use of the word average, much less top 50.

 

Not only that, but he was always injured. Due to injuries, Mac missed 50 games in his 7 seasons as a Bear, never starting more than 13, and only twice in his 7 seasons, playing 10 games or more.

 

Mac led a team filled with damn good player, and he deserves credit for leading the team to the SB, but sorry, he was far from a great player.

 

You guys are too harsh on Jimmy Mac! I do think Red needs to be before him, but he was freakin' really good! Out of 50 Bears, he should be in the 50... You poo poo his skills too much based on his character... He put up excellent numbers and was a TRUE leader in every sense. His O line would kill for him. That speaks volumes...

 

[Pixote]

I was too young to remember him as a player, LOL.

 

Got it, thanks. As I said, tad before my time. Pix, it must have been great watching him live

[madlithuanian]

As Mark Twain said, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

 

He also didn't play in a bunch of games, so his numbers aren't exactly stellar in volume. His impressive number is wins.

 

#'s alone do not paint the whole story of greatness on the football field. Again, I'm not lobbying Jimmy Mac for the HoF, but for one of the 50 greatest Bears. I think he easily is.

 

Here's what he brought:

 

1. Moxie...we know it. No one else since has had it. No one has had Jimmy's balls. Cutler might. Jury's still out.

2. Respect. His teammates loved him. He challenged the coach, and more often than not, correctly. He played hard, and his O-line and teammates knew it. They played harder because of him.

3. Leadership. See 1 and 2... He had it. You wanted to go to battle with Mad Mac.

4. Comebacks. The Minny game just stands out above all else. He willed that win. That was not a Payton win. That was not a Dent, Hampton, Singletary win. That was all on Jimmy. There were others. Games like that helped instillan air of invulnerability that made that season so special. Jimmy pays in Miami, we'd have run the table.

5. History. Look what he did at BYU. It's not a fluke. Dude had game.

6. He played. Yeah, like Favre. He had fun out there. It was fun watching him play.

7. We won us a Super Bowl. Our only one. Yes, Dent won the MVP and Walter was a decoy...but Jimmy made NE pay dearly. He conducted a clinic that game. It's our only one to date. So, yeah, it freakin' means a LOT!

 

The worst part of it was injury, and I blame that guy from Green Bay for ruining his career and the Bears' future.

 

I won't argue where in the 50 Jimmy belongs, but dammit, he belongs!

 

 

The year we won the SB, Jimmy Macs stats

 

2,400 yards, 15 TDs and 11 picks.

 

That represented his career highest yardage and TD totals. Should also be pointed out he was a sub 60% completion percentage.

 

His TD numbers as a Bear: 9, 12, 8, 155, 12, 6. His numbers didn't improve after Chicago either. Not only did he not throw a lot of scores, he also threw a lot of picks (in comparison to TDs).

 

Hey, we all loved his moxie during that SB run, but the fact is, his numbers were VERY pedestrian.

 

Orton had more yards, scores and a better completion %, and he was run out of town. Jim Miller had similar numbers the year he took us to the playoffs, and few would call Miller a good QB. Hell, most would question the use of the word average, much less top 50.

 

Not only that, but he was always injured. Due to injuries, Mac missed 50 games in his 7 seasons as a Bear, never starting more than 13, and only twice in his 7 seasons, playing 10 games or more.

 

Mac led a team filled with damn good player, and he deserves credit for leading the team to the SB, but sorry, he was far from a great player.

 

[Pixote]

If he had not been the QB the last year we won the SB most would struggle to remember his name.

 

Take away that one year and he would not be in the top 100 Bears in history.

 

Does he deserve to be in the top 50 because he rode the tails of the greatest defense of all time to the SB?

 

I do not think so, I agree with nfo.

[madlithuanian]

Yeah, but doesn't that make the arguement? And you cannot take that year away from him anyay. Our most shining moment, he shines...and did so for the years before and after before the thug from Green Bay injured him in a cheap shot.

 

Couldn't you say the same thing about Terry Bradshaw? Montana w/o Rice and Craig, etc... It takes a team to win. Again, I'm not comparing hm to Terry...

 

Did you like him at all? Other than being on the winning team and wearing the jersey?

 

 

 

If he had not been the QB the last year we won the SB most would struggle to remember his name.

 

Take away that one year and he would not be in the top 100 Bears in history.

 

Does he deserve to be in the top 50 because he rode the tails of the greatest defense of all time to the SB?

 

I do not think so, I agree with nfo.

 

[Pixote]

I love JimmyMac, I think he is a good piece of Bear's history.

 

However, he was NEVER more than an average QB on an average offense.

 

If he deserves to be in the top 50 Bears of all time because he was the QB on the SB team, then what happens to the other 52 players (or whatever the roster limit was at that time) that was on the team? Does that mean they deserve the honor as well because they were on the SB team?

 

I would argue that Matt Suhey was a better FB than JimmyMac was a QB. Does he deserve to be in the all-time top 50? No.

[nfoligno]

Agreed.

 

Hey, I loved Jimmy Mac. No question at all about that. But just because I loved him doesn't mean he was a top 50 Bear. I love Mike Brown, but that doesn't mean I am going to lobby for him to be one of the best ever Bear players.

 

The truth is, Jimmy was, as Pix said, a very average QB in terms of talent, but he did have the leadership and moxie, and that did go a long way. Mac will forever be enshrined in Bear's lore, but this is a very old franchise loaded with many, many great players. As fun as he was to watch, I simply do not feel he was great, and there are simply too many great players in our history to have one that is less on that list.

 

 

 

I love JimmyMac, I think he is a good piece of Bear's history.

 

However, he was NEVER more than an average QB on an average offense.

 

If he deserves to be in the top 50 Bears of all time because he was the QB on the SB team, then what happens to the other 52 players (or whatever the roster limit was at that time) that was on the team? Does that mean they deserve the honor as well because they were on the SB team?

 

I would argue that Matt Suhey was a better FB than JimmyMac was a QB. Does he deserve to be in the all-time top 50? No.

 

[madlithuanian]

I'm glad to hear you don't have a vendetta (sp?) against him!

 

Suhey should be considered for sure. Not every player on that squad led the team. But in the end, I quess each to their own. Maybe I'm just biassed towards the guy... I just saw him as a leader of men.

 

 

 

I love JimmyMac, I think he is a good piece of Bear's history.

 

However, he was NEVER more than an average QB on an average offense.

 

If he deserves to be in the top 50 Bears of all time because he was the QB on the SB team, then what happens to the other 52 players (or whatever the roster limit was at that time) that was on the team? Does that mean they deserve the honor as well because they were on the SB team?

 

I would argue that Matt Suhey was a better FB than JimmyMac was a QB. Does he deserve to be in the all-time top 50? No.

 

[madlithuanian]

Actually, I think Mike Borwn deserves a closer look....

 

I do love that we're arguing over the fact that we have too many great players from history....

 

Agreed.

 

Hey, I loved Jimmy Mac. No question at all about that. But just because I loved him doesn't mean he was a top 50 Bear. I love Mike Brown, but that doesn't mean I am going to lobby for him to be one of the best ever Bear players.

 

The truth is, Jimmy was, as Pix said, a very average QB in terms of talent, but he did have the leadership and moxie, and that did go a long way. Mac will forever be enshrined in Bear's lore, but this is a very old franchise loaded with many, many great players. As fun as he was to watch, I simply do not feel he was great, and there are simply too many great players in our history to have one that is less on that list.

 

[nfoligno]

I do love that we're arguing over the fact that we have too many great players from history....

 

Ever been to the HOF? It is pretty dated, but so cool for a Bear fan due to how much we have there. I remember when I went, Chicago had a large display area in one room, loaded with stuff, while TB at the time was more like a little pedestal.

 

That's the thing. We have more players in the HOF than any other team in the NFL. We simply have so many players that when you are talking about the 50 greatest players, the bar is set pretty damn high.

[madlithuanian]

Not yet, but it's on my list. The Fantasy league I'm in wants to do a draft there one year to be able to check it out....

 

I do love that we're arguing over the fact that we have too many great players from history....

 

Ever been to the HOF? It is pretty dated, but so cool for a Bear fan due to how much we have there. I remember when I went, Chicago had a large display area in one room, loaded with stuff, while TB at the time was more like a little pedestal.

 

That's the thing. We have more players in the HOF than any other team in the NFL. We simply have so many players that when you are talking about the 50 greatest players, the bar is set pretty damn high.