4th and goal from the 1

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Just curious on your thoughts about Lovie's continous effort to go for it, and fail, on 4th & goal from the 1.

 

I'm in the middle. They were down by 3 at the end of the 3rd and should've taken the points and tied it. They didn't and while the throw wasn't great, it was a ball Clark has to catch. Against the Lions they had 4 plays to get 20 inches and couldn't. Again I take the points but Lovie trusts his team can get such a short gain in 4 plays.

 

On top of this, Forte needs to get his pads lower at the goal line. He's running too upright and is down at first contact by a player.

[bowlingtwig]

Just curious on your thoughts about Lovie's continous effort to go for it, and fail, on 4th & goal from the 1.

 

I'm in the middle. They were down by 3 at the end of the 3rd and should've taken the points and tied it. They didn't and while the throw wasn't great, it was a ball Clark has to catch. Against the Lions they had 4 plays to get 20 inches and couldn't. Again I take the points but Lovie trusts his team can get such a short gain in 4 plays.

 

On top of this, Forte needs to get his pads lower at the goal line. He's running too upright and is down at first contact by a player.

Against the Lions I would have taken the FG because it was getting to crunch time in the 4th quarter. In the GB game I was fine with going for it. The throw wasn't perfect but that is a catch that we have all seen Clark make in the past.

[balta1701-A]

Against the Lions I would have taken the FG because it was getting to crunch time in the 4th quarter. In the GB game I was fine with going for it. The throw wasn't perfect but that is a catch that we have all seen Clark make in the past.

I think I would have kicked the FG in both cases but I thought it was a much worse decision against the Lions than against GB.

 

My big thing though is I liked the playcalling against GB a lot better than the playcalling against detroit. Straight ahead run into a sea of people on a call that has failed 2 out of the previous 3 plays? Dislike. Spreading things out and giving Cutler options...a lot better. Cutler makes a better throw there probably 8/10 times.

[jason]

Just curious on your thoughts about Lovie's continous effort to go for it, and fail, on 4th & goal from the 1.

 

I'm in the middle. They were down by 3 at the end of the 3rd and should've taken the points and tied it. They didn't and while the throw wasn't great, it was a ball Clark has to catch. Against the Lions they had 4 plays to get 20 inches and couldn't. Again I take the points but Lovie trusts his team can get such a short gain in 4 plays.

 

On top of this, Forte needs to get his pads lower at the goal line. He's running too upright and is down at first contact by a player.

 

Normally, in a football sense, I don't have a problem with it.

With this horrible OL, and Forte, pretty much opposite of a power back, I say kick the FG every time.

[Boston Boxer]

dont know about the decision because it is hard to judge after the fact...however, our guy was wide open and it should have been a touchdown. The pass was a little behind him but he should have made the catch. I like the aggrsive call and it worked until the TE dropped the ball.

[madlithuanian]

Torn.

 

I hated it against Detroit. But I didn't mind it on Monday. That pass should have been caught by Clark. There was still a lot of game left against Green Bay, so I'm a little more fogiving there.

 

I guess, at least he's consitent.

 

I'd really like to see a freaking run. Even if you have to line Peppers in there!

 

Just curious on your thoughts about Lovie's continous effort to go for it, and fail, on 4th & goal from the 1.

 

I'm in the middle. They were down by 3 at the end of the 3rd and should've taken the points and tied it. They didn't and while the throw wasn't great, it was a ball Clark has to catch. Against the Lions they had 4 plays to get 20 inches and couldn't. Again I take the points but Lovie trusts his team can get such a short gain in 4 plays.

 

On top of this, Forte needs to get his pads lower at the goal line. He's running too upright and is down at first contact by a player.

 

[bowlingtwig]

Torn.

 

I hated it against Detroit. But I didn't mind it on Monday. That pass should have been caught by Clark. There was still a lot of game left against Green Bay, so I'm a little more fogiving there.

 

I guess, at least he's consitent.

 

I'd really like to see a freaking run. Even if you have to line Peppers in there!

I really wish the Oline could get some kind of push up front. It would make it so much easier running it for the 1 yard.

[madlithuanian]

Simple, but damn true!

 

I really wish the Oline could get some kind of push up front. It would make it so much easier running it for the 1 yard.

 

[Lucky Luciano]

Just curious on your thoughts about Lovie's continous effort to go for it, and fail, on 4th & goal from the 1.

 

I'm in the middle. They were down by 3 at the end of the 3rd and should've taken the points and tied it. They didn't and while the throw wasn't great, it was a ball Clark has to catch. Against the Lions they had 4 plays to get 20 inches and couldn't. Again I take the points but Lovie trusts his team can get such a short gain in 4 plays.

 

On top of this, Forte needs to get his pads lower at the goal line. He's running too upright and is down at first contact by a player.

 

here is where you go for it on 4th down and goal from the 1 (or in field goal range for that matter)...

 

1. it's your last drive of the game in regulation time and you are behind more than a field goal.

 

2. your kicker has a compound fracture of his kicking leg or he is mentally experiencing interplanetary travel.

 

in nearly every other instance you ALWAYS take the points and you certainly kick a field goal to tie up a game no matter what quarter it is. it's stupid coaching not to do so for many reasons.

 

this is another of lovie's glaring faults... stubbornness. to prove a point he will put his team at risk to lose a game to show the media, or the football world, he was smart making the same mistake in previous games.

 

[BearFan PHX]

this is another of lovie's glaring faults... stubbornness. to prove a point he will put his team at risk to lose a game to show the media, or the football world, he was smart making the same mistake in previous games.

 

+1 - I wonder if we do well, and Martz gets interest around the league, can we fire Lovie and elevate Martz to HC?

[Lucky Luciano]

+1 - I wonder if we do well, and Martz gets interest around the league, can we fire Lovie and elevate Martz to HC?

 

martz... our offense actually appears to have a game plan and is able to make real gametime adjustments. he is the best offensive coordinator we have had in chicago in over 50 years and has turned our generic ball control offenses of the past into an attack offense that is a real threat to opposing teams.

 

with that said, he has his faults also. in the packer game we did a lot of 5-7 step drops that nearly got cutler killed (in fact i am amazed at cutlers toughness, it just can't last taking that kind of a beating). we should have turned that down the same way as against the cowboys and a lot faster. he has to realize we don't have an orlando pace in his prime and am working with cannon fodder like frank oh-my and shaffer (not even counting our poor guards!!). in fact i can't believe they threw webb in at RT as he was absolutely miserable in pre-season and played no better monday night.

 

as far as promoting martz to HC? i would PREFERABLY have martz continue as our OC even with a new coaching staff and hopefully a new GM and president. he may be like buddy ryan in that aspect, a very good to great coordinator but a liability at HC. but if it came to lovie or martz i would take martz any day of the week and roll the bones.

 

other teams may see this the same way unless they are really desperate for a head coach.

[madlithuanian]

Agreed basically. Some coaches shouldn't be HC's... I think Martz is one. I'd love to see him around here for years as an OC all else being equal.

 

martz... our offense actually appears to have a game plan and is able to make real gametime adjustments. he is the best offensive coordinator we have had in chicago in over 50 years and has turned our generic ball control offenses of the past into an attack offense that is a real threat to opposing teams.

 

with that said, he has his faults also. in the packer game we did a lot of 5-7 step drops that nearly got cutler killed (in fact i am amazed at cutlers toughness, it just can't last taking that kind of a beating). we should have turned that down the same way as against the cowboys and a lot faster. he has to realize we don't have an orlando pace in his prime and am working with cannon fodder like frank oh-my and shaffer (not even counting our poor guards!!). in fact i can't believe they threw webb in at RT as he was absolutely miserable in pre-season and played no better monday night.

 

as far as promoting martz to HC? i would PREFERABLY have martz continue as our OC even with a new coaching staff and hopefully a new GM and president. he may be like buddy ryan in that aspect, a very good to great coordinator but a liability at HC. but if it came to lovie or martz i would take martz any day of the week and roll the bones.

 

other teams may see this the same way unless they are really desperate for a head coach.

 

[bear trap]

Just curious on your thoughts about Lovie's continous effort to go for it, and fail, on 4th & goal from the 1.

 

I'm in the middle. They were down by 3 at the end of the 3rd and should've taken the points and tied it. They didn't and while the throw wasn't great, it was a ball Clark has to catch. Against the Lions they had 4 plays to get 20 inches and couldn't. Again I take the points but Lovie trusts his team can get such a short gain in 4 plays.

 

On top of this, Forte needs to get his pads lower at the goal line. He's running too upright and is down at first contact by a player.

I don't mind going for it from the one yard line but damn its one yard why don't we go with the qb sneak that by far is the hardest play to stop for less than a yard. Frankly i'd like to see them practice with a guy like melton taking a snap and doing a sneak. Taking the snap can't be that hard to learn can it? practice a few times each week melton taking a snap from the qb position and let him bulldoze behind kreutz the handoffs to forte take too much time and by that time the d-line is ready for it. If it was snapped directly to a big power runner it'd be really hard to defend.

[BearFan PHX]

Yes i agree. Keeping Martz as OC would be best, but my hypothetical was if martz get attention from around the league as a heard coach do you let him go, or give him lovie's job?

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Yes i agree. Keeping Martz as OC would be best, but my hypothetical was if martz get attention from around the league as a heard coach do you let him go, or give him lovie's job?

If him and Cutler continue to gel, I'd make him the highest paid OC to try to lure him into staying for 2-3 years.

[Mongo3451]

martz... our offense actually appears to have a game plan and is able to make real gametime adjustments. he is the best offensive coordinator we have had in chicago in over 50 years and has turned our generic ball control offenses of the past into an attack offense that is a real threat to opposing teams.

 

with that said, he has his faults also. in the packer game we did a lot of 5-7 step drops that nearly got cutler killed (in fact i am amazed at cutlers toughness, it just can't last taking that kind of a beating). we should have turned that down the same way as against the cowboys and a lot faster. he has to realize we don't have an orlando pace in his prime and am working with cannon fodder like frank oh-my and shaffer (not even counting our poor guards!!). in fact i can't believe they threw webb in at RT as he was absolutely miserable in pre-season and played no better monday night.

 

as far as promoting martz to HC? i would PREFERABLY have martz continue as our OC even with a new coaching staff and hopefully a new GM and president. he may be like buddy ryan in that aspect, a very good to great coordinator but a liability at HC. but if it came to lovie or martz i would take martz any day of the week and roll the bones.

 

other teams may see this the same way unless they are really desperate for a head coach.

agreed. no to HC

[balta1701-A]

Yes i agree. Keeping Martz as OC would be best, but my hypothetical was if martz get attention from around the league as a heard coach do you let him go, or give him lovie's job?

Frankly...I think teams are going to really hesitate before giving Martz another HC job. I think most of the league probably agrees he's best in the OC role.

[Lucky Luciano]

Yes i agree. Keeping Martz as OC would be best, but my hypothetical was if martz get attention from around the league as a heard coach do you let him go, or give him lovie's job?

 

if it came to no choice but one or the other i would give it to *martz and hope he has changed/learned enough to be a good HC. i just see no redeeming factor in lovie smith to dictate any extension ever.

 

i like the idea BrianBear came up with referring to paying martz a ton of money to stay as OC unless we shake lovie (hopefully) out and then some thought has to go into it depending upon lovie's replacement (although with shanny gone off the market, i can't really think of any very good offensive minded head coaching material at the moment who would come to chicago and be qualified to run this franchise in a great capacity).

 

another idea came to me at the end of the '85 superbowl when i saw ryan getting lifted off the field like ditka. why not have 2 head coaches share the ticket? could it work with a coach like cowher and martz? it would be interesting to hear his view on something like that.

 

*all talk of martz is a bit premature at this point. i do like what i am seeing but we need to let the season progress before we really anoint him as 'all that and a bag of chips'. at this point though i will say he is the best OC i have ever seen in chicago. he needs to continue to grow as the season goes on and work on consistancy.

[madlithuanian]

If those are the only choices, I'd rather lose Smith at this point.

 

Yes i agree. Keeping Martz as OC would be best, but my hypothetical was if martz get attention from around the league as a heard coach do you let him go, or give him lovie's job?

 

[madlithuanian]

Excellent idea. Make him like Coslett or Kiffen or Johnson...make him the most kick ass highest paid OC (albeit my examples are DC's).

 

If him and Cutler continue to gel, I'd make him the highest paid OC to try to lure him into staying for 2-3 years.

 

[ParkerBear7]

Just curious on your thoughts about Lovie's continous effort to go for it, and fail, on 4th & goal from the 1.

 

I'm in the middle. They were down by 3 at the end of the 3rd and should've taken the points and tied it. They didn't and while the throw wasn't great, it was a ball Clark has to catch. Against the Lions they had 4 plays to get 20 inches and couldn't. Again I take the points but Lovie trusts his team can get such a short gain in 4 plays.

 

On top of this, Forte needs to get his pads lower at the goal line. He's running too upright and is down at first contact by a player.

 

 

Chester Taylor needs to get a chance in short yardage! He is more shifty than power but has the knack of finding the crease.

[Controlled Chaos]

Agreed basically. Some coaches shouldn't be HC's... I think Martz is one. I'd love to see him around here for years as an OC all else being equal.

Lovie falls into this category as well. He's having success because he is surrounded by great assistants. Martz, Tice, Marinelli. These guys have changed the identity of the "Lovie Smith" team. A good head coach creates a tree of assistants that go on to other jobs and take the identity or mental approach they learned, with them. The head coach passes on his wisdom to the subordinates, who then copy them and go on to success themselves. In the Bears case, the new coaches came in and implemented their strategy, wisdom and identity to the piss poor one that Lovie had out there. Rivera tried pushing some of his own strategy and identity and even though it worked, he was run out of town. Lovie wanted this team, especially on the defensive side of the ball, to be about him. Well he certainly got it…he put his puppet in charge of the defense and watched him fail as he pulled the strings. He then came out from behind the curtain to pull the strings for the world to see. What we saw wasn't pretty. A stubborn coach who showed no passion or aggressiveness. A coach who lacked the creativity or the ability to adjust a scheme, not only on the fly, but also from week to week. A coach who had the balls to say 'trust me' yet didn't have the balls to hold lazy, senseless penalty taking and unproductive players acccountable.

 

I think Lovie learned something and now realizes his lack of tenacity, lack of accountability and lack of overall leadership with the players is not the way to go. What Lovie can do and to his credit, what he is doing, is allowing his assistants to grab the reigns and lead a little. The players are taking on their identity instead of Lovie's. Those 4th down calls….that's all Martz. Lovie has the power to overrule, but the call to go for 6 instead of 3 is coming from the OC who brings the mentality of "you can't stop us" That mentality is not Lovie's…never has been and never will be. The problem is, there's supposed to be a happy median there between letting your Assistants run rampant(Martz) and meddling so much as to undermine their authority(Rivera). Lovie needs to know when to put the brakes on his OC and make the smart play. It seems pretty clear he won't do that. I honestly think he has zero input right now with regard to the Offense and very little with regard to the Defense. He's just the face of the team… the guy in front of the mic on interview day, the guy in charge of the red flag on game day and the guy to give the speech after the game. That's it. Not sure that's worth the 5.5 he's getting paid, but what can you do.

 

I don't think any of these guys are HC material, but they might be able to get by like this for a while, cause I think they all see each other as equal, regardless of title.

 

[madlithuanian]

Interesting take on Smith. I can't say you're off-base...

 

I'd still lkike better on D, epsecially since I'm not a fan of the scheme, but for now...let's see how this trip goes!

 

Lovie falls into this category as well. He's having success because he is surrounded by great assistants. Martz, Tice, Marinelli. These guys have changed the identity of the "Lovie Smith" team. A good head coach creates a tree of assistants that go on to other jobs and take the identity or mental approach they learned, with them. The head coach passes on his wisdom to the subordinates, who then copy them and go on to success themselves. In the Bears case, the new coaches came in and implemented their strategy, wisdom and identity to the piss poor one that Lovie had out there. Rivera tried pushing some of his own strategy and identity and even though it worked, he was run out of town. Lovie wanted this team, especially on the defensive side of the ball, to be about him. Well he certainly got it…he put his puppet in charge of the defense and watched him fail as he pulled the strings. He then came out from behind the curtain to pull the strings for the world to see. What we saw wasn't pretty. A stubborn coach who showed no passion or aggressiveness. A coach who lacked the creativity or the ability to adjust a scheme, not only on the fly, but also from week to week. A coach who had the balls to say 'trust me' yet didn't have the balls to hold lazy, senseless penalty taking and unproductive players acccountable.

 

I think Lovie learned something and now realizes his lack of tenacity, lack of accountability and lack of overall leadership with the players is not the way to go. What Lovie can do and to his credit, what he is doing, is allowing his assistants to grab the reigns and lead a little. The players are taking on their identity instead of Lovie's. Those 4th down calls….that's all Martz. Lovie has the power to overrule, but the call to go for 6 instead of 3 is coming from the OC who brings the mentality of "you can't stop us" That mentality is not Lovie's…never has been and never will be. The problem is, there's supposed to be a happy median there between letting your Assistants run rampant(Martz) and meddling so much as to undermine their authority(Rivera). Lovie needs to know when to put the brakes on his OC and make the smart play. It seems pretty clear he won't do that. I honestly think he has zero input right now with regard to the Offense and very little with regard to the Defense. He's just the face of the team… the guy in front of the mic on interview day, the guy in charge of the red flag on game day and the guy to give the speech after the game. That's it. Not sure that's worth the 5.5 he's getting paid, but what can you do.

 

I don't think any of these guys are HC material, but they might be able to get by like this for a while, cause I think they all see each other as equal, regardless of title.

 

[adam]

I just don't like the formations. We should spread them out and even go into the shotgun to open up the draw. How about some misdirection or fake the handoff up the middle and have the other back sweep to the outside, or even a bootleg. Something other than Forte running into the backs of our O-Line would be great.

[bowlingtwig]

I don't mind going for it from the one yard line but damn its one yard why don't we go with the qb sneak that by far is the hardest play to stop for less than a yard. Frankly i'd like to see them practice with a guy like melton taking a snap and doing a sneak. Taking the snap can't be that hard to learn can it? practice a few times each week melton taking a snap from the qb position and let him bulldoze behind kreutz the handoffs to forte take too much time and by that time the d-line is ready for it. If it was snapped directly to a big power runner it'd be really hard to defend.

I don't like the idea of melton taking the snap unless he has some experience with throwing the ball as well. It would be to well scripted of exactly what we were going to do. I can't stand the wildcat because its become to easy to stop. I don't mind a couple of plays using wildcat with Forte and Cutler both on the field, but if we ever do what Miami does I would be forced to stop watching the games. I watched Miami drive straight down the field and then use Wild Cat and it completely stalled the drive. If I was a fan I would be screaming at the head coach for not realizing that it was killing them.