Rumor mongering

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Have been reading around and hearing about some folks that "could" fit into the Bears plans. Nothing solid mind you just rumors. Names on the list: Berrian ( ), Carolina's Steve Smith ( ), NE's Logan Mankins ( ) , Alphonso Boone (this one actually is more true than not) and I even heard someone mention Jeff Garcia ( <_ as a>

 

Any others out there?

 

And I have a new candidate for Head Coach for those that are not fans of Lovie's. At the very least watch the video when you start second guess how the season is going.

 

 

 

[Connorbear]

Have been reading around and hearing about some folks that "could" fit into the Bears plans. Nothing solid mind you just rumors. Names on the list: Berrian ( ), Carolina's Steve Smith ( ), NE's Logan Mankins ( ) , Alphonso Boone (this one actually is more true than not) and I even heard someone mention Jeff Garcia ( <_ as a>

 

Any others out there?

 

And I have a new candidate for Head Coach for those that are not fans of Lovie's. At the very least watch the video when you start second guess how the season is going.

 

I would trade a 2nd round pick for Menkins today.

 

Peace

[Bears4Ever_34]

If we could get Steve freaking Smith on this team, Oh my god! Watch out. I wouldn't put it past Carolina to trade him because there team is going no where in the next 2 years and Smith will be wasting his talent in a place that has no chance to win a superbowl. It'll probably take a 2nd or 3rd round pick though to get him, do we risk yet another draft pick to improve the team right away? If Moss goes for a 3rd round pick surely we could get Steve Smith for the same value..

[madlithuanian]

Interesting if true...

 

I've heard Boone from numerous places like PFT,etc...

 

Mankins would be the best one we could get. Then Smith, then Garcia. Tell Berrian to take his Minny money and shove it up BrInt's bottom... He wasn't all that, and is even less now.

 

I'd take Sgt. Hartman over Smith any day! Just don't sign any Pyle's!

 

 

 

 

Have been reading around and hearing about some folks that "could" fit into the Bears plans. Nothing solid mind you just rumors. Names on the list: Berrian ( ), Carolina's Steve Smith ( ), NE's Logan Mankins ( ) , Alphonso Boone (this one actually is more true than not) and I even heard someone mention Jeff Garcia ( <_ as a>

 

Any others out there?

 

And I have a new candidate for Head Coach for those that are not fans of Lovie's. At the very least watch the video when you start second guess how the season is going.

 

 

[Guest TerraTor]

Interesting if true...

 

I've heard Boone from numerous places like PFT,etc...

 

Mankins would be the best one we could get. Then Smith, then Garcia. Tell Berrian to take his Minny money and shove it up BrInt's bottom... He wasn't all that, and is even less now.

 

I'd take Sgt. Hartman over Smith any day! Just don't sign any Pyle's!

 

Ya, berrian can eat bear shit. I would trade our 2nd for Mankins in a heartbeat

[jason]

1. Logan Mankins - Hell yes.

2. Jeff Garcia - Better than Hanie or Collins

3. Steve Smith - Sure, I guess...but why bring in another WR to a team that has a talented group of young receivers who already don't get the ball spread around enough?

4. Bernard Berrian - As already mentioned, bear shit.

 

Honestly, I don't understand why Steve Smith gets a . I would be barely excited if he were on the team.

[Connorbear]

1. Logan Mankins - Hell yes.

2. Jeff Garcia - Better than Hanie or Collins

3. Steve Smith - Sure, I guess...but why bring in another WR to a team that has a talented group of young receivers who already don't get the ball spread around enough?

4. Bernard Berrian - As already mentioned, bear shit.

 

Honestly, I don't understand why Steve Smith gets a . I would be barely excited if he were on the team.

I love the fact that the Queens are paying tons of cash for Berrian who is hardly seeing the field especially since they paid him that to pull him away from us.

 

Peace

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I doubt Carolina would trade Smith inside the conference, and they'd probably want a 3rd for him, and we can't afford to be giving those up. I'd probably do Bennett and a 5th, however.

 

As for Berrian, he's terrible, makes way too much money, and Minnesota would never trade him inside the division.

 

Mankins? I'd love him, but for a 2nd? Hell no. Guards don't win championships. For a 4th, yes. For a 2nd, never.

[balta1701-A]

Mankins? I'd love him, but for a 2nd? Hell no. Guards don't win championships. For a 4th, yes. For a 2nd, never.

Well, when you think about it...what are the Bears likely to spend their first round pick on this year if they draft for need? They're going after an O-Lineman, either a Right Tackle or a Left Guard, since they have a young LT already (Even if you don't like Williams, he's several years away from where you'd stop and replace him with another 1st round pick). You deal for him, you get a guy who's very unlikely to be an outright bust, whereas you draft a lineman in the 2nd and you've got a 50/50 shot.

 

The question is finances. In a capped league, you have to stop and ask yourself whether it's not only worth the 2nd round pick that you'd spend on an O-Lineman anyway, but it's worth the value of the contract extension. Since the league is uncapped right now that could help...but at some point you do have to expect the return of a cap, and a deal signed right now could seriously hurt you.

[jason]

Well, when you think about it...what are the Bears likely to spend their first round pick on this year if they draft for need? They're going after an O-Lineman, either a Right Tackle or a Left Guard, since they have a young LT already (Even if you don't like Williams, he's several years away from where you'd stop and replace him with another 1st round pick). You deal for him, you get a guy who's very unlikely to be an outright bust, whereas you draft a lineman in the 2nd and you've got a 50/50 shot.

 

The question is finances. In a capped league, you have to stop and ask yourself whether it's not only worth the 2nd round pick that you'd spend on an O-Lineman anyway, but it's worth the value of the contract extension. Since the league is uncapped right now that could help...but at some point you do have to expect the return of a cap, and a deal signed right now could seriously hurt you.

 

Exactly. For a guy who is just now in his sixth year, it's very possible for him to have another 8-10 years left in the tank. Considering that you are guaranteed - barring injury - at least 5, it's a much safer bet than gambling on a second rounder, much less a later draft pick.

 

Logan Mankins is well worth a 2nd rounder.

[defiantgiant]

Exactly. For a guy who is just now in his sixth year, it's very possible for him to have another 8-10 years left in the tank. Considering that you are guaranteed - barring injury - at least 5, it's a much safer bet than gambling on a second rounder, much less a later draft pick.

 

Logan Mankins is well worth a 2nd rounder.

 

You think it's very possible for Mankins to play until he's 36 or 38? It's pretty unusual for an offensive lineman to play that long and still be any good. John Tait, Ruben Brown, and Fred Miller were all out of football by 35 or 36. Tait's last year as a starter he was 33; Miller's last season was age-34; Brown's was age-35. None of them was effective in his last season starting; a quick look at the 2007 and 2008 offensive lines makes that pretty clear. So their last seasons as effective starters, they were all between 32 and 34. And those guys all had exceptionally long careers, Brown especially. A guy who's still in the league, still starting, and still good at 36 or 38 is a REALLY rare case. Orlando Pace didn't make it that long. Neither did Walter Jones or Jonathan Ogden.

 

I think you're closer with 5 years barring injury, although even that isn't always guaranteed. Look at Garza. We got him 5 years ago when he was 27, now at 31 he's not that effective even when he's healthy. He's still an OK starter when he isn't hurt, but I don't know how much longer that'll last.

 

All this is just a long way of saying that a 2nd rounder is a ridiculous amount of value to give up for a guy who could only have 2 or 3 good years left, 5 at the outside. I think interior linemen are way undervalued, and Mankins is a good player, but I'd wouldn't give up a 2nd-rounder for a 3-to-5-year rental on the o-line unless it was a left tackle. If the Pats were willing to give up Mankins for a 3rd, then maybe.

[adam]

You think it's very possible for Mankins to play until he's 36 or 38? It's pretty unusual for an offensive lineman to play that long and still be any good. John Tait, Ruben Brown, and Fred Miller were all out of football by 35 or 36. Tait's last year as a starter he was 33; Miller's last season was age-34; Brown's was age-35. None of them was effective in his last season starting; a quick look at the 2007 and 2008 offensive lines makes that pretty clear. So their last seasons as effective starters, they were all between 32 and 34. And those guys all had exceptionally long careers, Brown especially. A guy who's still in the league, still starting, and still good at 36 or 38 is a REALLY rare case. Orlando Pace didn't make it that long. Neither did Walter Jones or Jonathan Ogden.

 

I think you're closer with 5 years barring injury, although even that isn't always guaranteed. Look at Garza. We got him 5 years ago when he was 27, now at 31 he's not that effective even when he's healthy. He's still an OK starter when he isn't hurt, but I don't know how much longer that'll last.

 

All this is just a long way of saying that a 2nd rounder is a ridiculous amount of value to give up for a guy who could only have 2 or 3 good years left, 5 at the outside. I think interior linemen are way undervalued, and Mankins is a good player, but I'd wouldn't give up a 2nd-rounder for a 3-to-5-year rental on the o-line unless it was a left tackle. If the Pats were willing to give up Mankins for a 3rd, then maybe.

When is a rental considered 3 to 5 years? You are basically getting that length out of a rookie contract on an unknown in the draft, yet Mankins has a proven track record.

 

You can't underestimate the value of a great O-Line. The Bears should be willing to do almost anything to protect their Franchise QB.

[madlithuanian]

Seriously, Mankins for anything under a 1st is a deal for us...

 

When is a rental considered 3 to 5 years? You are basically getting that length out of a rookie contract on an unknown in the draft, yet Mankins has a proven track record.

 

You can't underestimate the value of a great O-Line. The Bears should be willing to do almost anything to protect their Franchise QB.

 

[lemonej]

Seriously, Mankins for anything under a 1st is a deal for us...

If we take a look at the history of the NFL draft recently the trend is that the only OG's that get draft ted in the first round have the ability to project to tackle. Most of the recent drafts have guards starting to come of the board late 2nd and early 3rd.

 

When it comes to trades the early round picks are usually used on skill position players unless you are teams that get fleeced by NE. They got a 1st for an interior DL and a 3rd for Moss when he was obtained for a 4th on draft day. Without taking the time to do the research off the top of my head I can't remember an in season trade for an OL for an early round draft pick.

[balta1701-A]

If we take a look at the history of the NFL draft recently the trend is that the only OG's that get draft ted in the first round have the ability to project to tackle. Most of the recent drafts have guards starting to come of the board late 2nd and early 3rd.

 

When it comes to trades the early round picks are usually used on skill position players unless you are teams that get fleeced by NE. They got a 1st for an interior DL and a 3rd for Moss when he was obtained for a 4th on draft day. Without taking the time to do the research off the top of my head I can't remember an in season trade for an OL for an early round draft pick.

Bah, looking for precedent right now is going to get you into trouble. Not only would I say we have an unusual number of contractual holdouts for this point in the season, but we're in a really unusual place where the 2011 season is totally up for grabs and no one seems to have a clue what contracts and the salary cap will look like for 2012. It's new ground in a lot of categories.

[defiantgiant]

It's new ground in a lot of categories.

That's true, but the effect that all the uncertainty seems to be having on the trade market is that veterans are getting dealt for lower draft picks than normal. I mean, this offseason a 2nd-round pick (and a conditional 4th next year) gets you Donovan McNabb. That's a franchise quarterback. Rob Sims, meanwhile, got traded for a 5th and a 7th. Sims is no Mankins, but he's still a starting-caliber guard and he's a couple of years younger.

 

I'm guessing that market-value compensation for Mankins would fall somewhere between McNabb and Sims, which is why I think a 3rd for him would be fair. If the Pats were willing to accept a 3rd and maybe a Day 3 pick, I think the Bears should jump on it.

[defiantgiant]

When is a rental considered 3 to 5 years? You are basically getting that length out of a rookie contract on an unknown in the draft, yet Mankins has a proven track record.

 

You can't underestimate the value of a great O-Line. The Bears should be willing to do almost anything to protect their Franchise QB.

I'm not underestimating the value of an o-line, but we've seen what happens when you overrely on FA acquisitions like Jerry Angelo does: you end up with a big vacuum at the position 3 or 4 years down the road. When you draft a guard, you could get 8 or 9 years out of him if you have good evaluators and draft a winner. Getting a proven FA like Mankins is less risky, but there's also less value, since you're getting fewer years for your draft pick. Now, if they wanted to trade for Mankins AND draft a guy to develop behind him, I'd be OK with that. You really can't have too many good offensive linemen.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

The Pats have been asking for a 1st rounder for Mankins. Whether they drop that price or not, who knows, but right now that is too steap of a price. I'd consider a 3rd and a future 5th or something along those lines but I don't even know if I'd give up a 2nd rounder right now. I say that because I don't know how much Mankins will help this year. He'll be coming into the new system, having not played any games and it will take him time to get up to speed.

 

Unfortunately I think we are probably stuck with what we have for the rest of this year and we will just have to hope that our oline can get better each week this year and that the Bears can bring in more talent during the off-season.

[madlithuanian]

I do agree, a 1st is too much. Then again, if Angelo is drafting, I'd think about it... He's bound to be another bust, so there is a case to be made in that instance.

 

The Pats have been asking for a 1st rounder for Mankins. Whether they drop that price or not, who knows, but right now that is too steap of a price. I'd consider a 3rd and a future 5th or something along those lines but I don't even know if I'd give up a 2nd rounder right now. I say that because I don't know how much Mankins will help this year. He'll be coming into the new system, having not played any games and it will take him time to get up to speed.

 

Unfortunately I think we are probably stuck with what we have for the rest of this year and we will just have to hope that our oline can get better each week this year and that the Bears can bring in more talent during the off-season.

 

[lemonej]

I do agree, a 1st is too much. Then again, if Angelo is drafting, I'd think about it... He's bound to be another bust, so there is a case to be made in that instance.

MadL lets get it right, if JA spends a first round pick on a OT he will be oft-injured and go somewhere and have a solid career( see Columbo). I think he has his focus on DL only since he has drafted a boat load of guys that are no longer in the league. Most of our best defensive players were drafted by others or acquired by FA of our starting 11 on D Manning and Harris are the only 2 draftees of JA.The drafting philosophy is what has this team struggling from year to year.There have been years when no O-linemen have been drafted at all and just UFAs were brought in. We've discussed this before and if this team is really creating competition at every spot then the O-line should always be on alert.

[madlithuanian]

I hear ya...

 

Just curious...would you take Mankins for a 1st given JA is still the GM?

 

MadL lets get it right, if JA spends a first round pick on a OT he will be oft-injured and go somewhere and have a solid career( see Columbo). I think he has his focus on DL only since he has drafted a boat load of guys that are no longer in the league. Most of our best defensive players were drafted by others or acquired by FA of our starting 11 on D Manning and Harris are the only 2 draftees of JA.The drafting philosophy is what has this team struggling from year to year.There have been years when no O-linemen have been drafted at all and just UFAs were brought in. We've discussed this before and if this team is really creating competition at every spot then the O-line should always be on alert.

 

[lemonej]

I hear ya...

 

Just curious...would you take Mankins for a 1st given JA is still the GM?

You know I can't lie to you. I would never give up a first in season for a OL it smacks desperation. With that being said JA gave up a 2nd for Adams last year.