Redskins @ Bears, 10/24/10

[jason]

Either way...I'm out guys. Another disappointing loss in a disappointing year that will still probably not result in getting a different coaching staff.

[ChileBear]

Either way...I'm out guys. Another disappointing loss in a disappointing year that will still probably not result in getting a different coaching staff.

Yep, bet you're right. they'll say the need consistancy and try to fidsome help for the OL. This is going to get worse ong before it gets better.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Well if it gets Lovie and Angelo fired I guess that's our silver lining. This season is about to turn into a nightmare. I hate to root for losses this early in the season but we could really use a high draft pick to rebuild and a new coach.

[fudgeripple2000]

Either way...I'm out guys. Another disappointing loss in a disappointing year that will still probably not result in getting a different coaching staff.

 

 

I don't see how this organization will keep the same coach. We have lost two in a row at home against teams that we should beat. I don't know how lovie will be able to stand up there and say "tough loss." Two in a row at home and what is the plan? Do it again next week?

[azbearsfan]

Watch the play again. Honestly watch the play. And if you STILL believe this is not at the VERY least a turnover shared by Knox, then I don't know what to say.

 

I want Cutler to be great. I think he can be. Unfortunately he hasn't been. But I think your obsession with saying how horrible he is is worse than what I'm doing. I don't think you're being realistic at all. On THREE different INTs the WR quit on Cutler. And on nearly every play other than that one drive in the third quarter, the OL absolutely sucked.

 

It is just hard for me to understand how you guys can just act as if Cutler is supposed to do something other than have turnovers when it's plainly obvious the other players aren't giving his drops or passes a chance to be successful.

 

 

Sorry dude, I'm not seeing that. If I'm the quarterback coach I am ripping his ass for throwing balls on two of those when the CB had clearly jumped the route before the ball was away. And that last throw was a effing joke.

 

 

Hey man, I'll give credit where credit is due, but not after a five turnover performance.

 

All I want is wins. I dont give a crap if its a 7-6 game every damn game, just give me the wins.

[Bears4Ever_34]

The thing is the offensive line wasn't horrendous today. Yes they weren't very good but I didn't feel like it was that bad to where Cutler didn't have chances to make plays down the field. Cutler was just brutal. It seemed like our running game was somewhat effective too late in the 3rd quarter but you can't bet on Martz to stick with it of course.

[DrunkBomber]

Give Cutler some blocking, a running game and a real WR or two and these turnovers wont happen. He was taking some chances in the 2nd half, and he made some bad throws but he has nothing to work with. Anyone who thinks all these turnovers are on Cutler is out of their minds. During the Sunday Night game watch what Moss does when a pass is thrown to him when hes covered. Even if he cant get it he will break it up, not stop running and watch it get intercepted.

[flea]

that game was there to be won, we just gave it away.

 

Also that was a TD by Cutler NOT a fmbl

[selection7]

Nothing new. Granted, Rex Grossman forced a lot of throws back in the day but it used to blow my mind how little effort our WRs would put out if they weren't wide open. If I remember correctly, Moose Muhammad just giving up on a right sideline route was the beginning of the end of our Superbowl appearance. At the very least, that cornerback should have been tackled where he caught the ball rather than getting a pick-6 out of it.

 

I think it's because we don't normally have great WRs here in Chicago so we're just hoping for WRs who'll at least run the right routes and catch...playing smart is thought of as having your cake and eating it too, so the coaches don't even bother to teach it.

[Boston Boxer]

dont know why they just dont stick Willams at LT and go from there. He is the LT and that is why they drafted him. What is the worst thing that could happen...the oline plays bad. guess what coaching staff, they cant play any worse. At least put Williams at LT and let him get some time.

[jason]

Sorry dude, I'm not seeing that. If I'm the quarterback coach I am ripping his ass for throwing balls on two of those when the CB had clearly jumped the route before the ball was away. And that last throw was a effing joke.

 

Hey man, I'll give credit where credit is due, but not after a five turnover performance.

 

All I want is wins. I dont give a crap if its a 7-6 game every damn game, just give me the wins.

 

If you seriously watched the following INT again, and that's your honest opinion, then I don't quite know what to say.

Cutler's 4th Interception

 

It is VERY clear to me that Knox was not running at full speed on that last INT, and didn't even react as if a ball was coming his way until he realized it too late.

 

Better yet, watch this highlight:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...omedy-Of-Errors

 

INT #1 - Cutler and Hester don't communicate, because Hester runs a stop route and Cutler throws an in route. The possibilities are: A] One of them had the wrong play, B] The play was the same and Cutler threw it too far in, C] The play was the same and Hester didn't complete his route.

Verdict: I'm more inclined to believe that Cutler did the right thing, especially when considering Hester needed to be told where to line up as recently as two weeks ago.

 

INT #2 - Horrible decision...Favre-esque

Verdict: Cutler threw a jump ball, period.

 

INT #3 - Three step drop. Cutler turns and throws. Knox is two yards behind Hall on the route.

Verdict: This one is up for debate, but I can't remember the last time I saw a three-step drop and a slant route get so thoroughly destroyed. Given the fact that Knox quit on multiple routes during the game, I'm willing to split this one half way. Cutler probably could have double-pumped this one (even though the intention of the 3-step drop is to plant and fire), but on the same token Knox simply has to run his full route. And if the DB is in front, he has to make a minimal effort to break up the pass.

 

INT #4 - Bomb to Knox.

Verdict: I'm sorry, but I simply can't blame Cutler that much on this one. Knox quit on a route once again in this game. That makes at least four that I saw. The replay above (the first one) clearly shows Knox pulling up at about the 30-25. Given that the ball was intercepted on about the 14, it's understandable that Cutler overthrows him. We're talking about a guy with track speed, who Cutler has to throw ahead of and approximate his speed, pulling up halfway through the play.

 

And please don't try to feign ignorance on the "fumble." We all know that it was a TD, and either Lovie or the coaches in his replay booth were to chickenshit to throw the red flag after just failing to win the previous one (which was a stupid challenge to begin with).

[flea]

Jason, the receivers aren't blameless but Cutler threw poorly all night not just on the int's

 

A good uestion & one the commentators kept bringing up. If Hall was jumping the routes so much why no double moves????

[selection7]

Well I know what to say. When a WR runs a poor route and doesn't get open, you don't throw it to that not open WR. When a DB who already has 3 picks plays a route as if he knew the play call presnap, you don't throw it his way anyway.

 

What really happened is Knox thought "wow, Hall has this play in his back pocket, time for Cutler to checkdown", followed by "oh snap!, the knucklehead threw it anyway". It's disingenuous to paint that as Knox's fault somehow since even had he run full speed, the guy who had just picked 3 balls would have still been a half step in better position to catch the ball than Knox. That's not good decision making in a close game, and Knox isn't exactly Randy Moss in his prime with respect to jump balls.

 

And I'm a guy who thinks fans are generally too hard on QBs so I'm almost always sticking up for them, but you can take it too far.

[ChileBear]

Well I know what to say. When a WR runs a poor route and doesn't get open, you don't throw it to that not open WR. When a DB who already has 3 picks plays a route as if he knew the play call presnap, you don't throw it his way anyway.

 

What really happened is Knox thought "wow, Hall has this play in his back pocket, time for Cutler to checkdown", followed by "oh snap!, the knucklehead threw it anyway". It's disingenuous to paint that as Knox's fault somehow since even had he run full speed, the guy who had just picked 3 balls would have still been a half step in better position to catch the ball than Knox. That's not good decision making in a close game, and Knox isn't exactly Randy Moss in his prime with respect to jump balls.

 

And I'm a guy who thinks fans are generally too hard on QBs so I'm almost always sticking up for them, but you can take it too far.

You make a logical arguement, based on watching thegame from a ddistance. What I understand from reading about Martz's system is that the QB through in anticipation, not reacting to the WR's move. What I saw was Knox stopping on that INT. He is supposed to know that you try to disrupt the INT. but knox stopped and Cutller threw to the spot.

Anyway you look at it, it still sucks and makes me sick that this team is become a laughingstock for the league. We aren't going to make the playoffs. this is such a crappy way to play out the season and I hope they get rid of the whole coaching staff. Lovie clearly has no clue as to whaat to do and Martz is crazy.

[jason]

Well I know what to say. When a WR runs a poor route and doesn't get open, you don't throw it to that not open WR. When a DB who already has 3 picks plays a route as if he knew the play call presnap, you don't throw it his way anyway.

 

What really happened is Knox thought "wow, Hall has this play in his back pocket, time for Cutler to checkdown", followed by "oh snap!, the knucklehead threw it anyway". It's disingenuous to paint that as Knox's fault somehow since even had he run full speed, the guy who had just picked 3 balls would have still been a half step in better position to catch the ball than Knox. That's not good decision making in a close game, and Knox isn't exactly Randy Moss in his prime with respect to jump balls.

 

And I'm a guy who thinks fans are generally too hard on QBs so I'm almost always sticking up for them, but you can take it too far.

 

But wouldn't then people say something about...

A] The lack of aggressiveness on Offense

B] That Cutler has to give his WR a chance in one-on-one plays

C] That Cutler should make the read and throw, and waiting for the next read is his fault if there is a sack

 

It just seems that no matter what Cutler's decision is, some of you guys will not give him any benefit of the doubt...despite the fact that the OL is one of the worst in history, Hester doesn't know the plays, Knox clearly quits on plays, Olsen is widely considered soft, and none of the players who stay in to help protect the QB do a very good job. To me, Cutler appears to be in a no-win situation. And that's not even talking about the horrendous coaching from top down.

[ChileBear]

But wouldn't then people say something about...

A] The lack of aggressiveness on Offense

B] That Cutler has to give his WR a chance in one-on-one plays

C] That Cutler should make the read and throw, and waiting for the next read is his fault if there is a sack

 

It just seems that no matter what Cutler's decision is, some of you guys will not give him any benefit of the doubt...despite the fact that the OL is one of the worst in history, Hester doesn't know the plays, Knox clearly quits on plays, Olsen is widely considered soft, and none of the players who stay in to help protect the QB do a very good job. To me, Cutler appears to be in a no-win situation. And that's not even talking about the horrendous coaching from top down.

Agree Jason. Cutler just looks like a dear in the headights behind that Oline. If he holds the ball too long he's going to get clobbered. If he throws it away it's another punt and the boo birds come out.. Until the OL gets its crap together we are going to see ths stuff the rest of the season with Martz caling the plays.

[madlithuanian]

No argument...

 

However, I think the crux of what's going on is that some folks are simply tired of laying the blame on the OL, the coaching, the WR's...and it's time to start giving Cutler some flak. The whole thing is a train wreck. We all know the OL is the biggest factor that impacts everything. But, there are elements that Cutler is doing that are making things worse...

 

But wouldn't then people say something about...

A] The lack of aggressiveness on Offense

B] That Cutler has to give his WR a chance in one-on-one plays

C] That Cutler should make the read and throw, and waiting for the next read is his fault if there is a sack

 

It just seems that no matter what Cutler's decision is, some of you guys will not give him any benefit of the doubt...despite the fact that the OL is one of the worst in history, Hester doesn't know the plays, Knox clearly quits on plays, Olsen is widely considered soft, and none of the players who stay in to help protect the QB do a very good job. To me, Cutler appears to be in a no-win situation. And that's not even talking about the horrendous coaching from top down.

 

[azbearsfan]

No argument...

 

However, I think the crux of what's going on is that some folks are simply tired of laying the blame on the OL, the coaching, the WR's...and it's time to start giving Cutler some flak. The whole thing is a train wreck. We all know the OL is the biggest factor that impacts everything. But, there are elements that Cutler is doing that are making things worse...

 

 

Yeah but the line actually got better as the game wore on. In the second half, they were opening up holes and giving Cutler time. If that idiot does throw the pick six at the damn ten yard line, WE WIN THE GAME.

 

 

To me, you can only argue that one pick is not Cutlers fault. The picked slant to Knox, Hall had clearly jumped it. Aikman said Knox has to fight underneath, but there is no way he is doing that because Hall was two feet in front of him and Knox doesn't have the strength to do that.

 

The pick six speaks for itself.

 

The last one is on Jay too. You can say Knox is not going full speed, but he was not open and he wouldn't have been when going full speed. Its a horsesh*t read, the ball never should have been thrown.

 

I agreed with your first thought, we got fleeced.

 

[madlithuanian]

Agreed!

 

Yeah but the line actually got better as the game wore on. In the second half, they were opening up holes and giving Cutler time. If that idiot does throw the pick six at the damn ten yard line, WE WIN THE GAME.

 

 

To me, you can only argue that one pick is not Cutlers fault. The picked slant to Knox, Hall had clearly jumped it. Aikman said Knox has to fight underneath, but there is no way he is doing that because Hall was two feet in front of him and Knox doesn't have the strength to do that.

 

The pick six speaks for itself.

 

The last one is on Jay too. You can say Knox is not going full speed, but he was not open and he wouldn't have been when going full speed. Its a horsesh*t read, the ball never should have been thrown.

 

I agreed with your first thought, we got fleeced.

 

[jason]

Yeah but the line actually got better as the game wore on. In the second half, they were opening up holes and giving Cutler time. If that idiot does throw the pick six at the damn ten yard line, WE WIN THE GAME.

 

To me, you can only argue that one pick is not Cutlers fault. The picked slant to Knox, Hall had clearly jumped it. Aikman said Knox has to fight underneath, but there is no way he is doing that because Hall was two feet in front of him and Knox doesn't have the strength to do that.

 

The pick six speaks for itself.

 

The last one is on Jay too. You can say Knox is not going full speed, but he was not open and he wouldn't have been when going full speed. Its a horsesh*t read, the ball never should have been thrown.

 

I agreed with your first thought, we got fleeced.

 

First, the OL only did well in the third quarter. It wasn't the entire second half.

 

And, to me, you can argue that three of the picks were not Cutler's total fault. Glad to know you at least admit that ONE can be given to a WR who quit on the route.

 

The Slant - Hall jumped it, but it's a three step drop and Knox quit on the route. You don't need as much strength if you actually run your route at full speed and get where you're supposed to be. With Knox's speed, the ball would probably have been incomplete if he were where he was supposed to be. The potential is there for a catch or interference call as well. You act as if Knox is a 100lb 8th grader instead of the lightning fast NFL player that he is.

 

The Deep Ball - Bad read? Perhaps. But the number of times an NFL announcer or player has said, "you gotta give your number 1 WR a chance," is astounding. That's what Jay did. Regardless of the previous INTs, and the fact that Knox quit on routes during the game, he STILL had faith in Knox and threw the ball for his WR to go get it. Unfortunately, Knox dropped down into third gear, and when the ball reached it's destination there was only the Redskins' DB there. Once again, Knox has sub 4.4 speed, and if he ran that route he would have been in the vicinity. If he ran his route the possibility of a catch or defensive pass interference become just as likely as the INT.

 

Answer these questions for me, if you wouldn't mind...

 

1) Did Knox quit on the slant route INT?

2) Did Knox run slower on the deep ball INT?

[selection7]

But wouldn't then people say something about...

A] The lack of aggressiveness on Offense

Um, no, actually. People don't usually complain that the O wasn't aggressive enough because there weren't enough stupid risks or bad reads.

B] That Cutler has to give his WR a chance in one-on-one plays

"A chance" isn't all-inclusive. It has to be a particular kind of chance. Catching the D off guard. Situational (3rd down, not when you're just a couple of firsts away from tying FG range and down to your last opportunity). When your WR has a half step. No WR considers being asked to play cornerback as "nice. he's giving me a chance." And remember what I said about Randy Moss. Still true.

C] That Cutler should make the read and throw, and waiting for the next read is his fault if there is a sack

Yes. It's the toughest position on the field. But Cutler should know that better than you or I. It's supposed to be difficult. Even tougher because of his line. But a leader doesn't flake out and compound the situation. A leader props the others up long enough for them to get it together. It's a team sport.

 

My final comment to make is that just because others go overboard in bashing our QB doesn't mean you should too...the other direction. I think Cutler has a natural defense mechanism against criticism. He doesn't need our excuses, just our support.

[jason]

Um, no, actually. People don't usually complain that the O wasn't aggressive enough because there weren't enough stupid risks or bad reads.

 

"A chance" isn't all-inclusive. It has to be a particular kind of chance. Catching the D off guard. Situational (3rd down, not when you're just a couple of firsts away from tying FG range and down to your last opportunity). When your WR has a half step. No WR considers being asked to play cornerback as "nice. he's giving me a chance." And remember what I said about Randy Moss. Still true.

 

Yes. It's the toughest position on the field. But Cutler should know that better than you or I. It's supposed to be difficult. Even tougher because of his line. But a leader doesn't flake out and compound the situation. A leader props the others up long enough for them to get it together. It's a team sport.

 

My final comment to make is that just because others go overboard in bashing our QB doesn't mean you should too...the other direction. I think Cutler has a natural defense mechanism against criticism. He doesn't need our excuses, just our support.

 

You must not remember a ton of posts from the Crowton era. Nearly everyone complained about the aggressiveness, because it was overboard. I'm still a fan of that type of innovative thinker, someone who will at least try to confuse the opposing defense, over a guy like Turner who continually shoves the square peg into the round hole by believing his same plays will work regardless of what the other teams do.

 

Points about QB being the toughest position and the requirements for being a leader are agreed upon. It's just really hard to be a leader when those you are supposed to lead can't help very much. The guy has played FAR from great, but it's a nearly no-win situation for him this year and last.