madlithuanian Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/video?PID=...e158xi1xYbwACQ9 And since it's on your watch, you need to put in your resignation letter, JA... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/video?PID=...e158xi1xYbwACQ9 And since it's on your watch, you need to put in your resignation letter, JA... Riiiight. Lovie needs to go because he wont tell us anything, and Angelo needs to go because he does. Jerry Angelo has done a really good job for us. Yes every draft pick doesn't pan out - show me a GM for whom that doesn't happen. Jerry has been wise with the cap, he has shown a willingness to aggressively pursue trades and Free Agents when it was necessary, and a wise ability to sit it out when it wasn't. Cutler and Peppers are BIG reasons we are going to the Playoffs this year. Thank you Jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan1974 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Riiiight. Lovie needs to go because he wont tell us anything, and Angelo needs to go because he does. Jerry Angelo has done a really good job for us. Yes every draft pick doesn't pan out - show me a GM for whom that doesn't happen. Jerry has been wise with the cap, he has shown a willingness to aggressively pursue trades and Free Agents when it was necessary, and a wise ability to sit it out when it wasn't. Cutler and Peppers are BIG reasons we are going to the Playoffs this year. Thank you Jerry. JA=JackAss Far too many haven't panned out than have. He has made some horrible moves. Bad contracts, bad signing, horrible draft choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 JA=JackAss Far too many haven't panned out than have. He has made some horrible moves. Bad contracts, bad signing, horrible draft choices. You're not right. He's had his hits and misses, he has areas of strength and areas of weakness. ANyone you would replace him with would have the same. Yes there are things to complain about, but he is not a Jackass. LOL thats so ignorant. He's done a good job of staying the course and executing the plan. He's done pretty well in my book, and hes a smart guy that gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I can see that his comment was totaly taken out of context. He was refering to the Team and the locker room being excellant because of all the nay sayers the developed as a team and nobody really stood out from it. I got what he ment. But I can see the haters still live and nothing will change till they are gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan1974 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 You're not right. He's had his hits and misses, he has areas of strength and areas of weakness. ANyone you would replace him with would have the same. Yes there are things to complain about, but he is not a Jackass. LOL thats so ignorant. He's done a good job of staying the course and executing the plan. He's done pretty well in my book, and hes a smart guy that gets it. For every Lance Briggs there is a Michael Haynes. Marc Columbo, Roe Williams, Mark Bradley...because his Drafts haven't panned out, we've had to exercise even more money on FA's. Archuleta, Manumaleuna, Pace, Taylor...yes Peppers is great but still...Angelo is a Jackass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 It ain't worth arguing this guys. On an overall basis I was down on JA earlier this year because he messed up badly with the O Line. But he also get some credit, as does Lovie, for hiring the guys who fixed the problem by coaching this band of misfits up. And on his drafts and FA moves, he's been as successful as any other GM out there who doesn't have Manning or Brady at QB. I'd say he's earned another year to see how this team he put together develops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Sorry. I think you miss my strange sense of humor and the point of the matter. I'm fin with what Smith's done at the moment, and he's staying regardless of what I think. However, I think Angelo has had far to many big misses vs hidden gems. He needs to go. Who's the GMs for PIT and NE? They seem to be doing great jobs... Out spending everyone for Peppers does not a good GM make. Anyone could have done that. In fact, he had to do it because he whiffed so often on the D line. I give him more credit for Cutler. But, any decent GM should have made that deal and probably not given as much as we did... Riiiight. Lovie needs to go because he wont tell us anything, and Angelo needs to go because he does. Jerry Angelo has done a really good job for us. Yes every draft pick doesn't pan out - show me a GM for whom that doesn't happen. Jerry has been wise with the cap, he has shown a willingness to aggressively pursue trades and Free Agents when it was necessary, and a wise ability to sit it out when it wasn't. Cutler and Peppers are BIG reasons we are going to the Playoffs this year. Thank you Jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Of course it is. But it adds fuel to the fire for those who are not fond of JA's overall job performance here. I can see that his comment was totaly taken out of context. He was refering to the Team and the locker room being excellant because of all the nay sayers the developed as a team and nobody really stood out from it. I got what he ment. But I can see the haters still live and nothing will change till they are gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I generally agree. But I don't recall the plethora of complete first round whiffs from IND, NE, or PIT...regardless if they have a QB or not. His draft record is simply not good. He's done well bringing in FA's for the most part, and has found some true hidden gems, but in the 1st and 2nd rounds, he's missed far more than he should. Guys with obvioius issues that everyone seemes to be weary of... It ain't worth arguing this guys. On an overall basis I was down on JA earlier this year because he messed up badly with the O Line. But he also get some credit, as does Lovie, for hiring the guys who fixed the problem by coaching this band of misfits up. And on his drafts and FA moves, he's been as successful as any other GM out there who doesn't have Manning or Brady at QB. I'd say he's earned another year to see how this team he put together develops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Its kind of funny actually because he's essentially making an indictment on himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Its kind of funny actually because he's essentially making an indictment on himself. You're right. The reason why he's doing so though is that he's indicting himself to praise Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I generally agree. But I don't recall the plethora of complete first round whiffs from IND, NE, or PIT...regardless if they have a QB or not. His draft record is simply not good. He's done well bringing in FA's for the most part, and has found some true hidden gems, but in the 1st and 2nd rounds, he's missed far more than he should. Guys with obvioius issues that everyone seemes to be weary of... 2000 Rob Morris 2001 Reggie Wayne 2002 Dwight Freeney 2003 Dallas Clark 2004 — No Pick 2005 Marlin Jackson 2006 Joseph Addai 2007 Anthony Gonzalez 2008 — No Pick 2009 Donald Brown 2010 Jerry Hughes 2001 Richard Seymour 2002 Daniel Graham 2003 Ty Warren 2004 Vince Wilfork 2005 Logan Mankins 2006 Laurence Maroney 2007 Brandon Meriweather 2008 Jerod Mayo 2009 — No Pick 2010 Devin McCourty 2001 Hampton, Casey 2002 Simmons, Kendall 2003 Polamalu, Troy 2004 Roethlisberger, Ben 2005 Miller, Heath 2006 Holmes, Santonio 2007 Timmons, Lawrence 2008 Mendenhall, Rashard 2009 Hood, Evander 2010 Pouncey, Maurkice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Do you have ours? 2000 Rob Morris 2001 Reggie Wayne 2002 Dwight Freeney 2003 Dallas Clark 2004 — No Pick 2005 Marlin Jackson 2006 Joseph Addai 2007 Anthony Gonzalez 2008 — No Pick 2009 Donald Brown 2010 Jerry Hughes 2001 Richard Seymour 2002 Daniel Graham 2003 Ty Warren 2004 Vince Wilfork 2005 Logan Mankins 2006 Laurence Maroney 2007 Brandon Meriweather 2008 Jerod Mayo 2009 — No Pick 2010 Devin McCourty 2001 Hampton, Casey 2002 Simmons, Kendall 2003 Polamalu, Troy 2004 Roethlisberger, Ben 2005 Miller, Heath 2006 Holmes, Santonio 2007 Timmons, Lawrence 2008 Mendenhall, Rashard 2009 Hood, Evander 2010 Pouncey, Maurkice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Do you have ours? # Brian Urlacher (2000) # David Terrell (2001) # Marc Colombo (2002) # Michael Haynes (2003) # Rex Grossman (2003) # Tommie Harris (2004) # Cedric Benson (2005) # Greg Olsen (2007) # Chris Williams (2008) The big problem with the Bears' first round picks is that 1 guy blew apart his leg, and 2 others didn't become solid players until after they'd left the org. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daventry Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 JA's picks don't bother me nearly as much as Lovie and his obsession with the Cover 2 and bad choices for coaches, see BABICH. Overall, I would much rather see JA remain than Lovie, but I think that Lovie has benefited from the help of his coordinators this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Thanks for posting all that! If they aren't performing well on the Bears, they are busts for the Bears! Regarding JA, I think he can only get credit for Tommie (for about 3 season's worth...) and the jury is still out on Olsen (who's butterfingers and turnstile blocking isn't really looking worthy of a #1 pick) and Williams (who really does look like a bust, especially relating where he was drafted). Really, of that whole group, only Urlacher is worthy...everyone is either a bust, ot looks like a disappointment at best. The others: 2000 Rob Morris -? 2001 Reggie Wayne - stud 2002 Dwight Freeney - stud 2003 Dallas Clark - stud 2004 — No Pick 2005 Marlin Jackson - ? 2006 Joseph Addai - damn good 2007 Anthony Gonzalez - bust 2008 — No Pick 2009 Donald Brown - looks not good 2010 Jerry Hughes - have no idea 2001 Richard Seymour - stud 2002 Daniel Graham - stud for them 2003 Ty Warren - ? 2004 Vince Wilfork - stud 2005 Logan Mankins - stud 2006 Laurence Maroney - bust 2007 Brandon Meriweather - looks good 2008 Jerod Mayo - looks good 2009 — No Pick 2010 Devin McCourty - ? 2001 Hampton, Casey - ? 2002 Simmons, Kendall - ? 2003 Polamalu, Troy - HoF 2004 Roethlisberger, Ben - stud 2005 Miller, Heath - stud 2006 Holmes, Santonio - stud 2007 Timmons, Lawrence - good 2008 Mendenhall, Rashard - looks really good 2009 Hood, Evander - ? 2010 Pouncey, Maurkice -? I'd ray the other GM have done far better jobs than JA in drafting in the first round. # Brian Urlacher (2000) # David Terrell (2001) # Marc Colombo (2002) # Michael Haynes (2003) # Rex Grossman (2003) # Tommie Harris (2004) # Cedric Benson (2005) # Greg Olsen (2007) # Chris Williams (2008) The big problem with the Bears' first round picks is that 1 guy blew apart his leg, and 2 others didn't become solid players until after they'd left the org. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan1974 Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 # Brian Urlacher (2000) # David Terrell (2001) # Marc Colombo (2002) # Michael Haynes (2003) # Rex Grossman (2003) # Tommie Harris (2004) # Cedric Benson (2005) # Greg Olsen (2007) # Chris Williams (2008) The big problem with the Bears' first round picks is that 1 guy blew apart his leg, and 2 others didn't become solid players until after they'd left the org. JA didn't pick Urlacher or Terrell. His first 1st rounder was Columbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Do you have ours? everyone wants to talk about angies free agents but if you draft well you wouldn't need any or only a few to put you over the top on a superbowl run. just look at the AGE of our good players then look at the depth we have on this team to replace them. we have nearly ZERO depth at any position where players in the wings are pushing the starters who age or retire in the near future. that said, if this isn't failure after NINE YEARS i don't know what is... 1st RD TOTAL PICKS - 7 5 offensive players 2 defensive players - 2006 traded out of 1st round and got d. manning 2 picks in 2003 0 picks in2006 0 picks in 2009-2010 traded with broncos for cutler Quality Starters - Tommie Harris - 2004 - ? 1 2010 To Broncos - pick traded for Cutler 2009 To Broncos - pick traded for Cutler 2008 14 14 Chris Williams T Vanderbilt 2007 31 31 Greg Olsen TE Miami (FL) 2005 4 4 Cedric Benson RB Texas 2004 14 14 Tommie Harris DT Oklahoma 2003 14 14 Michael Haynes DE Penn State 2003 22 22 Rex Grossman QB Florida 2002 29 29 Marc Colombo T Boston College 2nd RD TOTAL PICKS - 7 2 offensive players 5 defensive players 2 picks in 2006 0 picks in 2009 - traded down with seahawks for #44 3rd rd gilbert; #105 4th rd melton; #140 5th rd knox (through broncos) Quality Starters - Charles Tillman, EDIT - Matt Forte? Devin Hester - special teams? 2 2010 - traded overall #42 to Tampa Bay for Gaines Adams - sucked and dead 2009 - traded out of 2nd rd, overall #49 with Seahawks (Center Max Unger), for 3rd and 4th round picks #68 Gilbert and #105 Melton 2008 13 44 Matt Forte RB Tulane 2007 30 62 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan 2006 10 42 Danieal Manning S Abilene Christian 2006 25 57 Devin Hester CB Miami (FL) 2005 7 39 Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma 2004 15 47 Tank Johnson DT Washington 2003 3 35 Charles Tillman CB Louisiana-Lafayette 3rd RD TOTAL PICKS - 12 5 offensive players 7 defensive players 2 picks in 2009, 2008 and 2007 Quality Starters - Lance Briggs (Bernard Barrian - Bears wouldn't match salary offer by Vikes) 3 2010 11 75 Major Wright S Florida 2009 4 68 Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State Pick from Seahawks 2009 35 99 Juaquin Iglesias WR Oklahoma Compensatory Pick 2008 7 70 Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt 2008 27 90 Marcus Harrison DT Arkansas 2007 30 93 Garrett Wolfe RB Northern Illinois 2007 31 94 Michael Okwo LB Stanford 2006 9 73 Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma 2004 15 78 Bernard Berrian WR Fresno State 2003 4 68 Lance Briggs LB Arizona 2002 7 72 Roosevelt Williams CB Tuskegee 2002 28 93 Terrence Metcalf G Mississippi 4th RD TOTAL PICKS - 12 2 offensive players 10 defensive players 2 picks in 2009, 2004 and 2003 Quality Starters - Nathan Vasher?, Alex Brown 4 2010 11 109 Corey Wootton DE Northwestern 2009 5 105 Henry Melton DE Texas Pick from Seahawks 2009 19 119 D.J. Moore CB Vanderbilt 2008 21 120 Craig Steltz S LSU 2007 31 130 Josh Beekman G Boston College 2006 23 120 Jamar Williams LB Arizona State 2005 5 106 Kyle Orton QB Purdue 2004 14 110 Nathan Vasher CB Texas 2004 16 112 Leon Joe LB Maryland 2003 3 100 Todd Johnson S Florida 2003 19 116 Ian Scott DT Florida 2002 6 104 Alex Brown DE Florida 5th RD TOTAL PICKS - 15 6 offensive picks 9 defensive picks 2 picks in 2009, 2008, 2007, 2004 3 picks in 2003 Quality Starters - Mark Anderson? 5 2010 10 141 Josh Moore CB Kansas State 2009 4 140 Johnny Knox WR Abilene Christian Pick from Broncos in Cutler deal 2009 18 154 Marcus Freeman LB Ohio State 2008 7 142 Zack Bowman CB Nebraska 2008 23 158 Kellen Davis TE Michigan State 2007 30 167 Kevin Payne S Louisiana-Monroe 2007 31 168 Corey Graham CB New Hampshire 2006 27 159 Mark Anderson DE Alabama 2005 4 140 Airese Currie WR Clemson 2004 15 147 Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh 2004 16 148 Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State 2003 4 139 Bobby Wade WR Arizona 2003 8 143 Justin Gage WR Missouri 2003 36 171 Tron Lafavor DT Florida 2002 5 140 Bobby Gray S Louisiana Tech 6th RD TOTAL PICKS - 10 7 offensive picks 3 defensive picks 2 picks in 2006 and 2003 3 picks in 2002 0 picks in 2007 and 2008 Quality Starters - none? - In 2010 we traded LB Jamar Williams and a conditional pick to Panthers to get Chris Harris back 6 2010 12 181 Dan LeFevour QB Central Michigan 2009 17 190 Al Afalava S Oregon State 2006 26 195 J.D. Runnels FB Oklahoma 2006 31 200 Tyler Reed G Penn State 2005 7 181 Chris Harris S Louisiana-Monroe 2003 18 191 Joe Odom LB Purdue 2003 33 206 Brock Forsey RB Boise State 2002 27 199 Adrian Peterson RB Georgia Southern 2002 31 203 Jamin Elliott WR Delaware 2002 38 210 Bryan Fletcher TE UCLA 7th RD TOTAL PICKS - 13 8 offensive picks 5 defensive picks 2 picks in 2007 5 picks in 2008 0 picks in 2006 and 2002 Quality Starters - none 7 2010 11 218 J'Marcus Webb OT West Texas A&M 2009 37 246 Lance Louis OG San Diego State Compensatory Pick 2009 42 251 Derek Kinder WR Pittsburg Compensatory Pick 2008 1 208 Ervin Baldwin DE Michigan State 2008 15 222 Chester Adams G Georgia 2008 36 243 Joey LaRocque LB Oregon State 2008 40 247 Kirk Barton T Ohio State 2008 41 248 Marcus Monk WR Arkansas 2007 11 221 Trumaine McBride CB Mississippi 2007 31 241 Aaron Brant T Iowa State 2005 6 220 Rodriques Wilson LB South Carolina 2004 14 215 Alfonso Marshall CB Miami (FL) 2003 47 261 Bryan Anderson G Pittsburgh TOTAL PICKS OFFENSE - 36 TOTAL PICKS DEFENSE - 40 1st DAY PICKS Rds 1 - 3 Offense - 13 Defense - 13 2nd DAY PICKS Rd's 4 - 5 Offense - 8 Defense - 19 2nd DAY PICKS Rd's 6 - 7 Offense - 15 Defense - 8 4 QB's - rds 1, 4, 5 and 6 11 OL - 2 OT's rd 1, 3 OT's rd 7; 1 OG rd 3, 1 OG rd 4, 1 OG rd 6, 3 OG rd 7 3 RB's - rds 1,2,3 1 FB - rd 6 11 WR's - 2 rd 2, 3 rd 3, 4 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7 3 TE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6 8 DE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3. 3 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 7 6 DT's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 2 rd 3, 1 rd 4, 1 rd 5 8 LB's - 2 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7 17 DB's - 8 S's - 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 2 rd 5, 2 rd 6 9 CB's - 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 3 rd 5, 2 rd 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Fantastic analysis Lucky! Thanks for sharing! everyone wants to talk about angies free agents but if you draft well you wouldn't need any or only a few to put you over the top on a superbowl run. just look at the AGE of our good players then look at the depth we have on this team to replace them. we have nearly ZERO depth at any position where players in the wings are pushing the starters who age or retire in the near future. that said, if this isn't failure after NINE YEARS i don't know what is... 1st RD TOTAL PICKS - 7 5 offensive players 2 defensive players - 2006 traded out of 1st round and got d. manning 2 picks in 2003 0 picks in2006 0 picks in 2009-2010 traded with broncos for cutler Quality Starters - Tommie Harris - 2004 - ? 1 2010 To Broncos - pick traded for Cutler 2009 To Broncos - pick traded for Cutler 2008 14 14 Chris Williams T Vanderbilt 2007 31 31 Greg Olsen TE Miami (FL) 2005 4 4 Cedric Benson RB Texas 2004 14 14 Tommie Harris DT Oklahoma 2003 14 14 Michael Haynes DE Penn State 2003 22 22 Rex Grossman QB Florida 2002 29 29 Marc Colombo T Boston College 2nd RD TOTAL PICKS - 7 2 offensive players 5 defensive players 2 picks in 2006 0 picks in 2009 - traded down with seahawks for #44 3rd rd gilbert; #105 4th rd melton; #140 5th rd knox (through broncos) Quality Starters - Charles Tillman, EDIT - Matt Forte? Devin Hester - special teams? 2 2010 - traded overall #42 to Tampa Bay for Gaines Adams - sucked and dead 2009 - traded out of 2nd rd, overall #49 with Seahawks (Center Max Unger), for 3rd and 4th round picks #68 Gilbert and #105 Melton 2008 13 44 Matt Forte RB Tulane 2007 30 62 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan 2006 10 42 Danieal Manning S Abilene Christian 2006 25 57 Devin Hester CB Miami (FL) 2005 7 39 Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma 2004 15 47 Tank Johnson DT Washington 2003 3 35 Charles Tillman CB Louisiana-Lafayette 3rd RD TOTAL PICKS - 12 5 offensive players 7 defensive players 2 picks in 2009, 2008 and 2007 Quality Starters - Lance Briggs (Bernard Barrian - Bears wouldn't match salary offer by Vikes) 3 2010 11 75 Major Wright S Florida 2009 4 68 Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State Pick from Seahawks 2009 35 99 Juaquin Iglesias WR Oklahoma Compensatory Pick 2008 7 70 Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt 2008 27 90 Marcus Harrison DT Arkansas 2007 30 93 Garrett Wolfe RB Northern Illinois 2007 31 94 Michael Okwo LB Stanford 2006 9 73 Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma 2004 15 78 Bernard Berrian WR Fresno State 2003 4 68 Lance Briggs LB Arizona 2002 7 72 Roosevelt Williams CB Tuskegee 2002 28 93 Terrence Metcalf G Mississippi 4th RD TOTAL PICKS - 12 2 offensive players 10 defensive players 2 picks in 2009, 2004 and 2003 Quality Starters - Nathan Vasher?, Alex Brown 4 2010 11 109 Corey Wootton DE Northwestern 2009 5 105 Henry Melton DE Texas Pick from Seahawks 2009 19 119 D.J. Moore CB Vanderbilt 2008 21 120 Craig Steltz S LSU 2007 31 130 Josh Beekman G Boston College 2006 23 120 Jamar Williams LB Arizona State 2005 5 106 Kyle Orton QB Purdue 2004 14 110 Nathan Vasher CB Texas 2004 16 112 Leon Joe LB Maryland 2003 3 100 Todd Johnson S Florida 2003 19 116 Ian Scott DT Florida 2002 6 104 Alex Brown DE Florida 5th RD TOTAL PICKS - 15 6 offensive picks 9 defensive picks 2 picks in 2009, 2008, 2007, 2004 3 picks in 2003 Quality Starters - Mark Anderson? 5 2010 10 141 Josh Moore CB Kansas State 2009 4 140 Johnny Knox WR Abilene Christian Pick from Broncos in Cutler deal 2009 18 154 Marcus Freeman LB Ohio State 2008 7 142 Zack Bowman CB Nebraska 2008 23 158 Kellen Davis TE Michigan State 2007 30 167 Kevin Payne S Louisiana-Monroe 2007 31 168 Corey Graham CB New Hampshire 2006 27 159 Mark Anderson DE Alabama 2005 4 140 Airese Currie WR Clemson 2004 15 147 Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh 2004 16 148 Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State 2003 4 139 Bobby Wade WR Arizona 2003 8 143 Justin Gage WR Missouri 2003 36 171 Tron Lafavor DT Florida 2002 5 140 Bobby Gray S Louisiana Tech 6th RD TOTAL PICKS - 10 7 offensive picks 3 defensive picks 2 picks in 2006 and 2003 3 picks in 2002 0 picks in 2007 and 2008 Quality Starters - none? - In 2010 we traded LB Jamar Williams and a conditional pick to Panthers to get Chris Harris back 6 2010 12 181 Dan LeFevour QB Central Michigan 2009 17 190 Al Afalava S Oregon State 2006 26 195 J.D. Runnels FB Oklahoma 2006 31 200 Tyler Reed G Penn State 2005 7 181 Chris Harris S Louisiana-Monroe 2003 18 191 Joe Odom LB Purdue 2003 33 206 Brock Forsey RB Boise State 2002 27 199 Adrian Peterson RB Georgia Southern 2002 31 203 Jamin Elliott WR Delaware 2002 38 210 Bryan Fletcher TE UCLA 7th RD TOTAL PICKS - 13 8 offensive picks 5 defensive picks 2 picks in 2007 5 picks in 2008 0 picks in 2006 and 2002 Quality Starters - none 7 2010 11 218 J'Marcus Webb OT West Texas A&M 2009 37 246 Lance Louis OG San Diego State Compensatory Pick 2009 42 251 Derek Kinder WR Pittsburg Compensatory Pick 2008 1 208 Ervin Baldwin DE Michigan State 2008 15 222 Chester Adams G Georgia 2008 36 243 Joey LaRocque LB Oregon State 2008 40 247 Kirk Barton T Ohio State 2008 41 248 Marcus Monk WR Arkansas 2007 11 221 Trumaine McBride CB Mississippi 2007 31 241 Aaron Brant T Iowa State 2005 6 220 Rodriques Wilson LB South Carolina 2004 14 215 Alfonso Marshall CB Miami (FL) 2003 47 261 Bryan Anderson G Pittsburgh TOTAL PICKS OFFENSE - 36 TOTAL PICKS DEFENSE - 40 1st DAY PICKS Rds 1 - 3 Offense - 13 Defense - 13 2nd DAY PICKS Rd's 4 - 5 Offense - 8 Defense - 19 2nd DAY PICKS Rd's 6 - 7 Offense - 15 Defense - 8 4 QB's - rds 1, 4, 5 and 6 11 OL - 2 OT's rd 1, 3 OT's rd 7; 1 OG rd 3, 1 OG rd 4, 1 OG rd 6, 3 OG rd 7 3 RB's - rds 1,2,3 1 FB - rd 6 11 WR's - 2 rd 2, 3 rd 3, 4 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7 3 TE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6 8 DE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3. 3 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 7 6 DT's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 2 rd 3, 1 rd 4, 1 rd 5 8 LB's - 2 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7 17 DB's - 8 S's - 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 2 rd 5, 2 rd 6 9 CB's - 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 3 rd 5, 2 rd 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I think you might be doing the math backwards. It isn't Angelo's goal to get great picks with every pick, he KNOWS the draft is hit or miss, it's his goal to keep every position stocked with players that fit the scheme. So when you see him picking Gilbert and Melton, for example, he may not be thinking "each of these guys is a blue chipper" he's probably thinking "I need to increase COMPETITION on the defensive line, and each of these guys has an upside, but also has some risk. If I take two, I better my odds of having at least one of them come out, and that helps my DL issue." Just as a good financial portfolio (or offensive gameplan) includes some conservative plays and some high risk high reward choices, so does Jerry also take some swings on players that have a VERY high upside, but also have glaring issues that have caused them to fall in the draft. There's nothing wrong with taking a flier on some physical specimen and seeing if you can coach him up a little. For example, when we need help at a position, it's not uncommon to see Jerry take several players in kind of a shotgun mode. Your aim can be off, but if you put enough pellets in the right direction, you're going to hit something. if he does that, spends say 3 picks on a position, and develops a good starter there from one of them, does it matter that the other two 9which were at the same position) didn't pan out? Would you rather he put all his eggs in one basket and take only ONE player and just get it right all the time? Angelo is factoring in the uncertainty in the draft into his moves, and you aren't measuring that at all in your analysis. Let's say he's looking for a CB. Say he takes one in the 2nd round, and a long shot again int he 4th. Hopefully the 2nd rounder is surer, and certainly he was rated higher, but there are players that dont pan out. If Jerry hits on the 4th, you're going to criticize him for the 2nd being a flop - but HIS approach was to find A PLAYER, and he committed TWO picks of value to that ONE goal. The way you score it, he'd lose points, when in fact he should GAIN them for good insurance move. Jerry's doing it right, and your analysis of him is based on a premise that isn't true - he doesnt play to hit each pick, he USES picks as a tool to stock his team. The way to judge him is to point to the team, and whether he addresses needs etc. You want to say he missed on the OL this year? That's fair. But overall, especially on defense, he seems to do a good job of identifying what we need and doing things to fix them, without spending too much. And in the cases of Cutler and peppers, knowing when and how to win the bidding. To simply look at each pick, out of context to the other picks, and free agents etc, isn't really the right way to value the draft. Look at the team they field, the final product, and if there are weaknesses then hold him accountable for that. Personally I think he's doing a GREAT job, and it's just a very inexact science, and he's playing the game well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I think you're simply rationalizing his mistakes... I think you might be doing the math backwards. It isn't Angelo's goal to get great picks with every pick, he KNOWS the draft is hit or miss, it's his goal to keep every position stocked with players that fit the scheme. So when you see him picking Gilbert and Melton, for example, he may not be thinking "each of these guys is a blue chipper" he's probably thinking "I need to increase COMPETITION on the defensive line, and each of these guys has an upside, but also has some risk. If I take two, I better my odds of having at least one of them come out, and that helps my DL issue." Just as a good financial portfolio (or offensive gameplan) includes some conservative plays and some high risk high reward choices, so does Jerry also take some swings on players that have a VERY high upside, but also have glaring issues that have caused them to fall in the draft. There's nothing wrong with taking a flier on some physical specimen and seeing if you can coach him up a little. For example, when we need help at a position, it's not uncommon to see Jerry take several players in kind of a shotgun mode. Your aim can be off, but if you put enough pellets in the right direction, you're going to hit something. if he does that, spends say 3 picks on a position, and develops a good starter there from one of them, does it matter that the other two 9which were at the same position) didn't pan out? Would you rather he put all his eggs in one basket and take only ONE player and just get it right all the time? Angelo is factoring in the uncertainty in the draft into his moves, and you aren't measuring that at all in your analysis. Let's say he's looking for a CB. Say he takes one in the 2nd round, and a long shot again int he 4th. Hopefully the 2nd rounder is surer, and certainly he was rated higher, but there are players that dont pan out. If Jerry hits on the 4th, you're going to criticize him for the 2nd being a flop - but HIS approach was to find A PLAYER, and he committed TWO picks of value to that ONE goal. The way you score it, he'd lose points, when in fact he should GAIN them for good insurance move. Jerry's doing it right, and your analysis of him is based on a premise that isn't true - he doesnt play to hit each pick, he USES picks as a tool to stock his team. The way to judge him is to point to the team, and whether he addresses needs etc. You want to say he missed on the OL this year? That's fair. But overall, especially on defense, he seems to do a good job of identifying what we need and doing things to fix them, without spending too much. And in the cases of Cutler and peppers, knowing when and how to win the bidding. To simply look at each pick, out of context to the other picks, and free agents etc, isn't really the right way to value the draft. Look at the team they field, the final product, and if there are weaknesses then hold him accountable for that. Personally I think he's doing a GREAT job, and it's just a very inexact science, and he's playing the game well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan1974 Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I think you might be doing the math backwards. It isn't Angelo's goal to get great picks with every pick, he KNOWS the draft is hit or miss, it's his goal to keep every position stocked with players that fit the scheme. So when you see him picking Gilbert and Melton, for example, he may not be thinking "each of these guys is a blue chipper" he's probably thinking "I need to increase COMPETITION on the defensive line, and each of these guys has an upside, but also has some risk. If I take two, I better my odds of having at least one of them come out, and that helps my DL issue." Just as a good financial portfolio (or offensive gameplan) includes some conservative plays and some high risk high reward choices, so does Jerry also take some swings on players that have a VERY high upside, but also have glaring issues that have caused them to fall in the draft. There's nothing wrong with taking a flier on some physical specimen and seeing if you can coach him up a little. For example, when we need help at a position, it's not uncommon to see Jerry take several players in kind of a shotgun mode. Your aim can be off, but if you put enough pellets in the right direction, you're going to hit something. if he does that, spends say 3 picks on a position, and develops a good starter there from one of them, does it matter that the other two 9which were at the same position) didn't pan out? Would you rather he put all his eggs in one basket and take only ONE player and just get it right all the time? Angelo is factoring in the uncertainty in the draft into his moves, and you aren't measuring that at all in your analysis. Let's say he's looking for a CB. Say he takes one in the 2nd round, and a long shot again int he 4th. Hopefully the 2nd rounder is surer, and certainly he was rated higher, but there are players that dont pan out. If Jerry hits on the 4th, you're going to criticize him for the 2nd being a flop - but HIS approach was to find A PLAYER, and he committed TWO picks of value to that ONE goal. The way you score it, he'd lose points, when in fact he should GAIN them for good insurance move. Jerry's doing it right, and your analysis of him is based on a premise that isn't true - he doesnt play to hit each pick, he USES picks as a tool to stock his team. The way to judge him is to point to the team, and whether he addresses needs etc. You want to say he missed on the OL this year? That's fair. But overall, especially on defense, he seems to do a good job of identifying what we need and doing things to fix them, without spending too much. And in the cases of Cutler and peppers, knowing when and how to win the bidding. To simply look at each pick, out of context to the other picks, and free agents etc, isn't really the right way to value the draft. Look at the team they field, the final product, and if there are weaknesses then hold him accountable for that. Personally I think he's doing a GREAT job, and it's just a very inexact science, and he's playing the game well. It must be lonely being in the JA fan club. You said "It isn't Angelo's goal to get great picks with every pick" I say: Why the hell does he have the job if he's going to half ass it? No one here is taking the picks out of context. This is not baseball where you are successful if you fail 7 out of 10 times which is what he has done in the first three rounds of his tenure...8/26 (Olsen, Harris, Forte, Manning, Hester, Tillman, Bennett, and Briggs) Your job is to find the best TALENT to fill the positions...not just FILL the position. He is a bad judge of talent, this in turn causes us to spend even more on free agency because he misses in the draft. I'm sure JA will send you a Christmas Card next year for having his back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Great job Lucky. Pretty damning numbers. everyone wants to talk about angies free agents but if you draft well you wouldn't need any or only a few to put you over the top on a superbowl run. just look at the AGE of our good players then look at the depth we have on this team to replace them. we have nearly ZERO depth at any position where players in the wings are pushing the starters who age or retire in the near future. that said, if this isn't failure after NINE YEARS i don't know what is... 1st RD TOTAL PICKS - 7 5 offensive players 2 defensive players - 2006 traded out of 1st round and got d. manning 2 picks in 2003 0 picks in2006 0 picks in 2009-2010 traded with broncos for cutler Quality Starters - Tommie Harris - 2004 - ? 1 2010 To Broncos - pick traded for Cutler 2009 To Broncos - pick traded for Cutler 2008 14 14 Chris Williams T Vanderbilt 2007 31 31 Greg Olsen TE Miami (FL) 2005 4 4 Cedric Benson RB Texas 2004 14 14 Tommie Harris DT Oklahoma 2003 14 14 Michael Haynes DE Penn State 2003 22 22 Rex Grossman QB Florida 2002 29 29 Marc Colombo T Boston College 2nd RD TOTAL PICKS - 7 2 offensive players 5 defensive players 2 picks in 2006 0 picks in 2009 - traded down with seahawks for #44 3rd rd gilbert; #105 4th rd melton; #140 5th rd knox (through broncos) Quality Starters - Charles Tillman, EDIT - Matt Forte? Devin Hester - special teams? 2 2010 - traded overall #42 to Tampa Bay for Gaines Adams - sucked and dead 2009 - traded out of 2nd rd, overall #49 with Seahawks (Center Max Unger), for 3rd and 4th round picks #68 Gilbert and #105 Melton 2008 13 44 Matt Forte RB Tulane 2007 30 62 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan 2006 10 42 Danieal Manning S Abilene Christian 2006 25 57 Devin Hester CB Miami (FL) 2005 7 39 Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma 2004 15 47 Tank Johnson DT Washington 2003 3 35 Charles Tillman CB Louisiana-Lafayette 3rd RD TOTAL PICKS - 12 5 offensive players 7 defensive players 2 picks in 2009, 2008 and 2007 Quality Starters - Lance Briggs (Bernard Barrian - Bears wouldn't match salary offer by Vikes) 3 2010 11 75 Major Wright S Florida 2009 4 68 Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State Pick from Seahawks 2009 35 99 Juaquin Iglesias WR Oklahoma Compensatory Pick 2008 7 70 Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt 2008 27 90 Marcus Harrison DT Arkansas 2007 30 93 Garrett Wolfe RB Northern Illinois 2007 31 94 Michael Okwo LB Stanford 2006 9 73 Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma 2004 15 78 Bernard Berrian WR Fresno State 2003 4 68 Lance Briggs LB Arizona 2002 7 72 Roosevelt Williams CB Tuskegee 2002 28 93 Terrence Metcalf G Mississippi 4th RD TOTAL PICKS - 12 2 offensive players 10 defensive players 2 picks in 2009, 2004 and 2003 Quality Starters - Nathan Vasher?, Alex Brown 4 2010 11 109 Corey Wootton DE Northwestern 2009 5 105 Henry Melton DE Texas Pick from Seahawks 2009 19 119 D.J. Moore CB Vanderbilt 2008 21 120 Craig Steltz S LSU 2007 31 130 Josh Beekman G Boston College 2006 23 120 Jamar Williams LB Arizona State 2005 5 106 Kyle Orton QB Purdue 2004 14 110 Nathan Vasher CB Texas 2004 16 112 Leon Joe LB Maryland 2003 3 100 Todd Johnson S Florida 2003 19 116 Ian Scott DT Florida 2002 6 104 Alex Brown DE Florida 5th RD TOTAL PICKS - 15 6 offensive picks 9 defensive picks 2 picks in 2009, 2008, 2007, 2004 3 picks in 2003 Quality Starters - Mark Anderson? 5 2010 10 141 Josh Moore CB Kansas State 2009 4 140 Johnny Knox WR Abilene Christian Pick from Broncos in Cutler deal 2009 18 154 Marcus Freeman LB Ohio State 2008 7 142 Zack Bowman CB Nebraska 2008 23 158 Kellen Davis TE Michigan State 2007 30 167 Kevin Payne S Louisiana-Monroe 2007 31 168 Corey Graham CB New Hampshire 2006 27 159 Mark Anderson DE Alabama 2005 4 140 Airese Currie WR Clemson 2004 15 147 Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh 2004 16 148 Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State 2003 4 139 Bobby Wade WR Arizona 2003 8 143 Justin Gage WR Missouri 2003 36 171 Tron Lafavor DT Florida 2002 5 140 Bobby Gray S Louisiana Tech 6th RD TOTAL PICKS - 10 7 offensive picks 3 defensive picks 2 picks in 2006 and 2003 3 picks in 2002 0 picks in 2007 and 2008 Quality Starters - none? - In 2010 we traded LB Jamar Williams and a conditional pick to Panthers to get Chris Harris back 6 2010 12 181 Dan LeFevour QB Central Michigan 2009 17 190 Al Afalava S Oregon State 2006 26 195 J.D. Runnels FB Oklahoma 2006 31 200 Tyler Reed G Penn State 2005 7 181 Chris Harris S Louisiana-Monroe 2003 18 191 Joe Odom LB Purdue 2003 33 206 Brock Forsey RB Boise State 2002 27 199 Adrian Peterson RB Georgia Southern 2002 31 203 Jamin Elliott WR Delaware 2002 38 210 Bryan Fletcher TE UCLA 7th RD TOTAL PICKS - 13 8 offensive picks 5 defensive picks 2 picks in 2007 5 picks in 2008 0 picks in 2006 and 2002 Quality Starters - none 7 2010 11 218 J'Marcus Webb OT West Texas A&M 2009 37 246 Lance Louis OG San Diego State Compensatory Pick 2009 42 251 Derek Kinder WR Pittsburg Compensatory Pick 2008 1 208 Ervin Baldwin DE Michigan State 2008 15 222 Chester Adams G Georgia 2008 36 243 Joey LaRocque LB Oregon State 2008 40 247 Kirk Barton T Ohio State 2008 41 248 Marcus Monk WR Arkansas 2007 11 221 Trumaine McBride CB Mississippi 2007 31 241 Aaron Brant T Iowa State 2005 6 220 Rodriques Wilson LB South Carolina 2004 14 215 Alfonso Marshall CB Miami (FL) 2003 47 261 Bryan Anderson G Pittsburgh TOTAL PICKS OFFENSE - 36 TOTAL PICKS DEFENSE - 40 1st DAY PICKS Rds 1 - 3 Offense - 13 Defense - 13 2nd DAY PICKS Rd's 4 - 5 Offense - 8 Defense - 19 2nd DAY PICKS Rd's 6 - 7 Offense - 15 Defense - 8 4 QB's - rds 1, 4, 5 and 6 11 OL - 2 OT's rd 1, 3 OT's rd 7; 1 OG rd 3, 1 OG rd 4, 1 OG rd 6, 3 OG rd 7 3 RB's - rds 1,2,3 1 FB - rd 6 11 WR's - 2 rd 2, 3 rd 3, 4 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7 3 TE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6 8 DE's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3. 3 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 7 6 DT's - 1 rd 1, 1 rd 2, 2 rd 3, 1 rd 4, 1 rd 5 8 LB's - 2 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 1 rd 5, 1 rd 6, 2 rd 7 17 DB's - 8 S's - 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 2 rd 5, 2 rd 6 9 CB's - 1 rd 2, 1 rd 3, 2 rd 4, 3 rd 5, 2 rd 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 You said "It isn't Angelo's goal to get great picks with every pick" I say: Why the hell does he have the job if he's going to half ass it? I think I was pretty clear. The argument goes like this: When Angelo takes more than one player at a position, he isn't assuming BOTH will start obviously. He is FACTORING IN the uncertainty and risk that is obvious in the draft. It's like saying having household or health insurance is dumb because in 2010, your house didn't get destroyed, and you didn't get really sick. By your approach, he should take only ONE pick at a position, and feel super secure that every pick will pan out. Problem is, when you're wrong (and they are ALL wrong at times) then you are screwed. ALSO, you want to get ahead of the game, this means taking some projects, and some players with higher risk/reward ratio. If he does that four times, and produces a stud out of one of them, thats better than four average players who can't get on the field. I think you need to understand what the purpose of the draft is, and rate Angelo's performance accordingly - i.e. by the team he fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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