Lovie

[Daventry]

This team extended two HC's that got them a total of 2 playoff appearances prior to Smith's tenure in Wannstedt and Jauron. So either you sign him now to an extension only 2 or 3 years max or fire him now and give the job to someone else. We went through this last time he was extended and in my opinion we over-payed because we waited until his contract was almost up. I would think that all of us have learned from the most recent coaching hires of this team that they" screw the pooch" every time they go through the hiring process. Let us review Wannstedt supposedly we beat the Giants out for him,Jauron after we botched hiring McGinnis with a personnel man(Hatley) and GM Mikey and hiring Smith after being turned down by Saban. So let's see you trust the two guys who hired Lovie to hire his replacement? Anyone who thinks that JA is getting fired now is mistaken because he would not have been able to get rid of all the scouts and personnel people he did last offseason if that were going to happen. He also would have been handicapped when it came to going after Peppers,Taylor and Manumaleuna(sp?).The fact that Lovie took the crap that JA gave him for an O-line and didn't publicly complain tells you that he is a company man and perfect for the Bears to do what the Cubs and Blackhawks do and that is keep the fans engaged enough in the team to keep the cash flow coming. Come next fall (God Willing) I can honestly say that I have been watching the Bears for 45 years and they have done much better in the last 25 years than they did in the previous 25. I was 4 years old in 63 and didn't see the playoffs again until 77. The next time they were in the playoffs was 79 when I believe they were cheated and then the next time was 84. 85 was the magical year for me and I still believe that team was strong enough to win at least 3 SBs. The team's record from 84 through 88 backs up my thoughts. We all loved and revered Ditka almost to icon status but he had his flaws also. I guess no one remembers that Ditka's defensive staff was already in place when he came here but we question who Lovie hired this past offseason. No one wants to admit Ditka putting Flutie in as a starter and and getting outcoached by Joe Gibbs in a playoff game here at Soldier's Field. At one point the Redskins played a 5 man D-line and dared the Bears to pass. At the time the Bears had Tomczak and Harbaugh on the sideline if I can recall. All this stuff happened with some HOF's on the roster and a HOF coach/player calling the shots. Payton, Hampton, Singletary and possibly Dent, Covert and Hilgenberg could be recognized and only one SB appearance. You think Ditka's staff got out-coached a few times? Smith has coached the team 7 years and has maybe 2 possible HOF players for sure and maybe 2 others with an outside chance.(Urlacher, Briggs, Peppers and Hester) I personally don't like Smith because of his stubborness and arrogant way of talking down to the public but I have to side with the actual stars of the team when they support his methods of coaching 100%.

 

 

Those are some excellent points and give me cause to reconsider my position, I have been watching almost as long and have to admit the modern teams have been overall more successful....hmmm. I will never like him and the Cover 2, but maybe he is not a bad option.

[defiantgiant]

I'm OK with extending Lovie. He's not a top-tier coach like Belichick or an elite defensive mind like Dick LeBeau, but he's a solid coach, his players want to play for him, and these days he seems to have an understanding of when he needs to make drastic changes, which he didn't always have in the past. In wondering whether to extend him, I think you've got to ask what the odds are that we could find somebody better to replace him. For an above-average coach (which I think Smith is) chances are you're going to get a downgrade if you ditch him and go out on the open market.

 

Prior to this season, I was OK with Lovie getting fired, but that was because I thought the only way the Bears would fire Angelo is if they completely cleaned house. Now that we're definitely stuck with Angelo for another year, I don't see any advantage to canning Lovie. The Bears' problems are mainly personnel, not coaching. It was Angelo who traded Thomas Jones for peanuts, and it's Angelo who blew all the draft picks he got out of the deal (along with most of his picks every year.)

 

Think about this: Angelo's not just responsible for deciding whether or not to draft o-line (most years not,) but he's actually personally in charge of grading offensive linemen during the draft. They break up prospects by position groups among the scouting department, and o-line falls to Angelo himself. So it's not even like he's getting bad advice from one of his scouts - he's the one who decided that Phil Loadholt and Sebastian Vollmer weren't worth a 2nd rounder back in 2009, and he ended up trading down and getting Jarron Gilbert instead of a starting right tackle. Most of the problems the Bears have today are on Angelo's shoulders, not Lovie's. I don't think any other coach out there is going to get better results with the same subpar personnel that Angelo puts together.

 

Also, here's an article on Ron Rivera where he has some praise for Lovie's approach and says he learned from him as a coach.

[Lucky Luciano]

This team extended two HC's that got them a total of 2 playoff appearances prior to Smith's tenure in Wannstedt and Jauron. So either you sign him now to an extension only 2 or 3 years max or fire him now and give the job to someone else. We went through this last time he was extended and in my opinion we over-payed because we waited until his contract was almost up.

 

i am not sure of your meaning. why would you 'have' to sign him a year *before his contract is up or let him go? i would think the coaches you mentioned were perfect examples of why you DON'T want to extend a questionable coach still under contract before you have to.

 

do you feel lovie actually deserves a raise and extension considering the previous THREE years? he already is one of the highest paid coaches in the nfl and you yourself said he was overpaid so why would we want to give him an extension and raise again?

 

do you feel lovie will not sign a contract with chicago and do a pardee on us if we wait until his contract is actually up? will he be THAT ungrateful after the dog an pony show of last january in which we SHOULD have fired him, angie, and phillips? even after the cheap b$#@&*$s running this franchise stuck our necks in the noose for another season?

 

if lovie wants to coach somewhere else than chicago IF he deserves an extension next year then by all means lovie, don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you. (in my opinion i would have fired lovie last season and if i could land a better coach this offseason i would fire him anyway.)

 

*in january of '85 the bears extended ditka's contract for 3 years after his initial '82 three year contract expired and this was prior to the SF NFC playoff game for the '84 season. ditka was again offered extended contracts when this one expired.

 

I would think that all of us have learned from the most recent coaching hires of this team that they" screw the pooch" every time they go through the hiring process. Let us review Wannstedt supposedly we beat the Giants out for him,Jauron after we botched hiring McGinnis with a personnel man(Hatley) and GM Mikey and hiring Smith after being turned down by Saban. So let's see you trust the two guys who hired Lovie to hire his replacement?

 

in truth wanny was a big hire and at the time a coup' for chicago. we blew that when we extended the idiot when he clearly didn't deserve it. in jauron we did the same thing that we did/will do with lovie. we extended a contract without having the need to do so.

 

as far as trusting the imbeciles running this franchise to do anything right is a legitimate question. i don't and that is why we SHOULD have fired phillips first, last january, and hired a qualified football mind to run this franchise as president. but what is the alternative if they keep the same failures in place? just stay with what we have when it clearly is an inferior talent making critical decisions that effect the direction of this franchise? it seems that is the consensus from management when clearly NOBODY could say angelo is anywhere close to a good gm when you look at his body of work in the draft. he has done nothing to put quality ball players on the field at any position and left this franchise in a position it will take multiple good drafts to correct. does that mean we should extend him also because we "screwed the pooch" in the past?

 

Anyone who thinks that JA is getting fired now is mistaken because he would not have been able to get rid of all the scouts and personnel people he did last offseason if that were going to happen. He also would have been handicapped when it came to going after Peppers,Taylor and Manumaleuna(sp?).The fact that Lovie took the crap that JA gave him for an O-line and didn't publicly complain tells you that he is a company man and perfect for the Bears to do what the Cubs and Blackhawks do and that is keep the fans engaged enough in the team to keep the cash flow coming.

 

you are probably right about angie getting canned. this season left him the opening to decide "not to retire" to our dismay. so what do we have to look forward to? 3-4 more years of hit and miss post season crap in my estimation with second rate talent.

 

isn't accepting garbage from our gm also a testement to fire lovie if being a company man supercedes the ability to put the best team on the field? i would also like to state there was a lot of talk (unconfirmed by me) about lovie's involvement choosing draft picks after the superbowl season. if that is true is that not another reason why he should be at the least held in limbo until we 'need' to renew his contract or let him go?

 

Come next fall (God Willing) I can honestly say that I have been watching the Bears for 45 years and they have done much better in the last 25 years than they did in the previous 25. I was 4 years old in 63 and didn't see the playoffs again until 77. The next time they were in the playoffs was 79 when I believe they were cheated and then the next time was 84. 85 was the magical year for me and I still believe that team was strong enough to win at least 3 SBs. The team's record from 84 through 88 backs up my thoughts. We all loved and revered Ditka almost to icon status but he had his flaws also.

 

i am not one who revered ditka. i believe he was a cog in fink's machine along with *buddy ryan whose weird combination polarized (like the perfect storm if you will) an amazing amount of talent into a superbowl win. i also believe he later squandered a huge amount of talent do to poor coaching (and poor drafts by mikey) after that season in which we should have won multiple superbowls.

 

*i DO believe buddy ryan to be one of, if not the best, defensive coordinator in nfl history. just a poor head coach.

 

I guess no one remembers that Ditka's defensive staff was already in place when he came here but we question who Lovie hired this past offseason. No one wants to admit Ditka putting Flutie in as a starter and and getting outcoached by Joe Gibbs in a playoff game here at Soldier's Field. At one point the Redskins played a 5 man D-line and dared the Bears to pass. At the time the Bears had Tomczak and Harbaugh on the sideline if I can recall. All this stuff happened with some HOF's on the roster and a HOF coach/player calling the shots. Payton, Hampton, Singletary and possibly Dent, Covert and Hilgenberg could be recognized and only one SB appearance. You think Ditka's staff got out-coached a few times?

 

muggs halas had just died which was in my opinion the worst thing that could possibly have happened to this franchise in their entire history. it was a pivot point for the bears in the modern era of football. we got ditka because of GSH against finks wishes which later resulted in finks leaving. ryan, a former viking coach, stayed after armstrong left because of his love by key defensive players written campaign. that is how we ended up with ditka/ryan.

 

and yes, ditka was outcoached many times because of many of the attributes lovie smith has. stubborness as you mention and arrogance being key components.

 

finally i want to comment on your following statement: "I have to side with the actual stars of the team when they support his methods of coaching 100%."

 

the stars of this team also said the same thing about dick jauron. many of the same faults jauron had that caused his demise are the same we deal with now in lovie smith. although lovie has improved this season i find it hard to rally behind a coach whose failings he would not correct, let alone accknowledge over a 3 year period, when clearly his system did not work and in truth still will not work the way he runs it.

 

 

[madlithuanian]

Great post. I enjoyed reading your rebuttal.

 

i am not sure of your meaning. why would you 'have' to sign him a year *before his contract is up or let him go? i would think the coaches you mentioned were perfect examples of why you DON'T want to extend a questionable coach still under contract before you have to.

 

do you feel lovie actually deserves a raise and extension considering the previous THREE years? he already is one of the highest paid coaches in the nfl and you yourself said he was overpaid so why would we want to give him an extension and raise again?

 

do you feel lovie will not sign a contract with chicago and do a pardee on us if we wait until his contract is actually up? will he be THAT ungrateful after the dog an pony show of last january in which we SHOULD have fired him, angie, and phillips? even after the cheap b$#@&*$s running this franchise stuck our necks in the noose for another season?

 

if lovie wants to coach somewhere else than chicago IF he deserves an extension next year then by all means lovie, don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you. (in my opinion i would have fired lovie last season and if i could land a better coach this offseason i would fire him anyway.)

 

*in january of '85 the bears extended ditka's contract for 3 years after his initial '82 three year contract expired and this was prior to the SF NFC playoff game for the '84 season. ditka was again offered extended contracts when this one expired.

 

 

 

in truth wanny was a big hire and at the time a coup' for chicago. we blew that when we extended the idiot when he clearly didn't deserve it. in jauron we did the same thing that we did/will do with lovie. we extended a contract without having the need to do so.

 

as far as trusting the imbeciles running this franchise to do anything right is a legitimate question. i don't and that is why we SHOULD have fired phillips first, last january, and hired a qualified football mind to run this franchise as president. but what is the alternative if they keep the same failures in place? just stay with what we have when it clearly is an inferior talent making critical decisions that effect the direction of this franchise? it seems that is the consensus from management when clearly NOBODY could say angelo is anywhere close to a good gm when you look at his body of work in the draft. he has done nothing to put quality ball players on the field at any position and left this franchise in a position it will take multiple good drafts to correct. does that mean we should extend him also because we "screwed the pooch" in the past?

 

 

 

you are probably right about angie getting canned. this season left him the opening to decide "not to retire" to our dismay. so what do we have to look forward to? 3-4 more years of hit and miss post season crap in my estimation with second rate talent.

 

isn't accepting garbage from our gm also a testement to fire lovie if being a company man supercedes the ability to put the best team on the field? i would also like to state there was a lot of talk (unconfirmed by me) about lovie's involvement choosing draft picks after the superbowl season. if that is true is that not another reason why he should be at the least held in limbo until we 'need' to renew his contract or let him go?

 

 

 

i am not one who revered ditka. i believe he was a cog in fink's machine along with *buddy ryan whose weird combination polarized (like the perfect storm if you will) an amazing amount of talent into a superbowl win. i also believe he later squandered a huge amount of talent do to poor coaching (and poor drafts by mikey) after that season in which we should have won multiple superbowls.

 

*i DO believe buddy ryan to be one of, if not the best, defensive coordinator in nfl history. just a poor head coach.

 

 

 

muggs halas had just died which was in my opinion the worst thing that could possibly have happened to this franchise in their entire history. it was a pivot point for the bears in the modern era of football. we got ditka because of GSH against finks wishes which later resulted in finks leaving. ryan, a former viking coach, stayed after armstrong left because of his love by key defensive players written campaign. that is how we ended up with ditka/ryan.

 

and yes, ditka was outcoached many times because of many of the attributes lovie smith has. stubborness as you mention and arrogance being key components.

 

finally i want to comment on your following statement: "I have to side with the actual stars of the team when they support his methods of coaching 100%."

 

the stars of this team also said the same thing about dick jauron. many of the same faults jauron had that caused his demise are the same we deal with now in lovie smith. although lovie has improved this season i find it hard to rally behind a coach whose failings he would not correct, let alone accknowledge over a 3 year period, when clearly his system did not work and in truth still will not work the way he runs it.

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

FIRE HIS ASS TODAY AND GO GET JEFF FISHER! Just reported that he's on his way out of Tennessee.

[GrizzlyBear]

Coaches have never counted against the CAP - players only.

 

Peace

 

I know why i said it but after rereading it I see the confusion.

[azbearsfan]

FIRE HIS ASS TODAY AND GO GET JEFF FISHER! Just reported that he's on his way out of Tennessee.

 

 

Fisher is no better.

[BearsFan1974]

Fisher is no better.

Agreed. Hub Arkush just stated on the Score that Fisher is overrated as a coach which I tend to agree with. Because he was a Bear, people are going to go nuts when it comes to hiring him. I think we should stick with Lovie with NO EXTENSION and see what plays next year. Lovie knows he's still on the hot seat especially if he doesn't peform exceptionally.

[Lucky Luciano]

Agreed. Hub Arkush just stated on the Score that Fisher is overrated as a coach which I tend to agree with. Because he was a Bear, people are going to go nuts when it comes to hiring him. I think we should stick with Lovie with NO EXTENSION and see what plays next year. Lovie knows he's still on the hot seat especially if he doesn't peform exceptionally.

 

i do not agree with arkush on this. i look at the talent and lack of talent fisher has had to work with over the last 10+ years and i see a coach who in my opinion seems to always get the most out of the players he is forced to work with. in other words he can coach players and they actually get better unlike what we have seen here.

 

he has been in a division that features one of the hottest teams in the entire nfl in mannings colts for over a decade. he has had a poor owner/gm drafting and pushing players he was not willing to work with. he seemed to always have a nucleus of good coordinators around him.

 

i would take jeff fisher in a minute over lovie smith and it has nothing what-so-ever to do with him being a former bear or part of a superbowl team in 85. in fact i believe fisher is one of the few coaches around who i believe is good enough to fire lovie this season and hire.

 

 

 

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

Fisher is no better.

Two things

 

1. He's not Lovie Smith

2. He can't be worse

 

That's enough for me

[madlithuanian]

OK, now I'm getting swayed! Although, I'm not sure it matters... We're going to be getting Smith for at least another 3 years I think.

 

i do not agree with arkush on this. i look at the talent and lack of talent fisher has had to work with over the last 10+ years and i see a coach who in my opinion seems to always get the most out of the players he is forced to work with. in other words he can coach players and they actually get better unlike what we have seen here.

 

he has been in a division that features one of the hottest teams in the entire nfl in mannings colts for over a decade. he has had a poor owner/gm drafting and pushing players he was not willing to work with. he seemed to always have a nucleus of good coordinators around him.

 

i would take jeff fisher in a minute over lovie smith and it has nothing what-so-ever to do with him being a former bear or part of a superbowl team in 85. in fact i believe fisher is one of the few coaches around who i believe is good enough to fire lovie this season and hire.

 

[madlithuanian]

Dammit... Just when I'm about ready to concede, you guys pull me back in!

 

Sold.

 

Two things

 

1. He's not Lovie Smith

2. He can't be worse

 

That's enough for me

 

[azbearsfan]

Two things

 

1. He's not Lovie Smith

2. He can't be worse

 

That's enough for me

 

 

Yes he can.

[Lucky Luciano]

OK, now I'm getting swayed! Although, I'm not sure it matters... We're going to be getting Smith for at least another 3 years I think.

 

in 16 years as head coach he has had only 5 losing season. over the last 12 years he has been to the playoffs 6 times and the superbowl once. over the time he had a good qb in mcnair look at his win/loss record. in that 9 year period there were 4 playoff appearances and actually over mcnairs tenure he was out one season injured and the last season before he left after his career was basically done. add to that the gm let mason their best receiver go to the ravens.

 

even with the idiot vince young he pulled out 2 playoff appearances and one of those was using kerry collins. also, anyone remember justin gage? if that wasn't pulling the best out of an average player i don't know what is.

 

the way i see fisher is similar to cowherd in pittsburgh. both these coaches continually lost good players to free agency and still fielded good teams. to me that is good coaching.

 

think what he could do with cutler over his career even keeping martz or hiring someone he felt is a better OC.

[madlithuanian]

Sold!

 

in 16 years as head coach he has had only 5 losing season. over the last 12 years he has been to the playoffs 6 times and the superbowl once. over the time he had a good qb in mcnair look at his win/loss record. in that 9 year period there were 4 playoff appearances and actually over mcnairs tenure he was out one season injured and the last season before he left after his career was basically done. add to that the gm let mason their best receiver go to the ravens.

 

even with the idiot vince young he pulled out 2 playoff appearances and one of those was using kerry collins. also, anyone remember justin gage? if that wasn't pulling the best out of an average player i don't know what is.

 

the way i see fisher is similar to cowherd in pittsburgh. both these coaches continually lost good players to free agency and still fielded good teams. to me that is good coaching.

 

think what he could do with cutler over his career even keeping martz or hiring someone he felt is a better OC.

 

[BearsFan1974]

in 16 years as head coach he has had only 5 losing season. over the last 12 years he has been to the playoffs 6 times and the superbowl once. over the time he had a good qb in mcnair look at his win/loss record. in that 9 year period there were 4 playoff appearances and actually over mcnairs tenure he was out one season injured and the last season before he left after his career was basically done. add to that the gm let mason their best receiver go to the ravens.

 

even with the idiot vince young he pulled out 2 playoff appearances and one of those was using kerry collins. also, anyone remember justin gage? if that wasn't pulling the best out of an average player i don't know what is.

 

the way i see fisher is similar to cowherd in pittsburgh. both these coaches continually lost good players to free agency and still fielded good teams. to me that is good coaching.

 

think what he could do with cutler over his career even keeping martz or hiring someone he felt is a better OC.

Then after the 3rd new offense in 3 years for us to learn we can bitch about it more? I'd rather take our chances with Lovie who the players love playing for and the 2nd season of the same offense. Fisher would cost too much. I'm not saying extend Lovie but see what happens next year.

[Lucky Luciano]

Then after the 3rd new offense in 3 years for us to learn we can bitch about it more? I'd rather take our chances with Lovie who the players love playing for and the 2nd season of the same offense. Fisher would cost too much. I'm not saying extend Lovie but see what happens next year.

 

let me ask you this... WHY have we had three offensive coordinators/systems in SEVEN YEARS? for that matter why have we had four DEFENSIVE coordinators over this same period???

 

does that say anything about the abilities of our head coach to be able to put together a staff of his own and evaluate the abilities of these people? look at his choices. the only portion of our entire staff that has had any consistency has been our special teams coach and he never even hired him!!!

 

we have changed coordinators like pairs of socks not to mention the one we had that didn't need changing (in rivera). that doesn't even include position coaches we have gone through like s&%$ through a goose.

 

whose shoulders does this fall on? our coach? our gm? our president? or does it fall on ALL of them?

 

in my opinion fisher does know how to work with a staff. he has worked and played under the best defensive coordinator in history. he has seen how strife and turmoil between coordinators works (gilbride and ryan) and how to avoid it. in fact i'm not even sure he doesn't have the chops to take over phillips job as president!!

[BearsFan1974]

let me ask you this... WHY have we had three offensive coordinators/systems in SEVEN YEARS? for that matter why have we had four DEFENSIVE coordinators over this same period???

 

does that say anything about the abilities of our head coach to be able to put together a staff of his own and evaluate the abilities of these people? look at his choices. the only portion of our entire staff that has had any consistency has been our special teams coach and he never even hired him!!!

 

we have changed coordinators like pairs of socks not to mention the one we had that didn't need changing (in rivera). that doesn't even include position coaches we have gone through like s&%$ through a goose.

 

whose shoulders does this fall on? our coach? our gm? our president? or does it fall on ALL of them?

 

in my opinion fisher does know how to work with a staff. he has worked and played under the best defensive coordinator in history. he has seen how strife and turmoil between coordinators works (gilbride and ryan) and how to avoid it. in fact i'm not even sure he doesn't have the chops to take over phillips job as president!!

I agree with you but my point keeping Smith and Martz will not give us an excuse for Cutler. I think one more year of Lovie and company will solidify canning his ass or extending it. I agree the coaching staff and the front office have shit in all our faces from drafts to play calling. Martz' offense is tough and JA can't be that stupid to let the same O-line take the field next year. I am willing to see one more year. Fisher will still be available next year.

[Controlled Chaos]

let me ask you this... WHY have we had three offensive coordinators/systems in SEVEN YEARS? for that matter why have we had four DEFENSIVE coordinators over this same period???

 

does that say anything about the abilities of our head coach to be able to put together a staff of his own and evaluate the abilities of these people? look at his choices. the only portion of our entire staff that has had any consistency has been our special teams coach and he never even hired him!!!

 

we have changed coordinators like pairs of socks not to mention the one we had that didn't need changing (in rivera). that doesn't even include position coaches we have gone through like s&%$ through a goose.

 

whose shoulders does this fall on? our coach? our gm? our president? or does it fall on ALL of them?

 

in my opinion fisher does know how to work with a staff. he has worked and played under the best defensive coordinator in history. he has seen how strife and turmoil between coordinators works (gilbride and ryan) and how to avoid it. in fact i'm not even sure he doesn't have the chops to take over phillips job as president!!

You're making way too much sense here. I'm sold!

[Connorbear]

in my opinion fisher does know how to work with a staff. he has worked and played under the best defensive coordinator in history. he has seen how strife and turmoil between coordinators works (gilbride and ryan) and how to avoid it. in fact i'm not even sure he doesn't have the chops to take over phillips job as president!!

I think calling Buddy Ryan the best d-coordinator in history is a bit of a stretch. He was very good but he had some amazing talent under him. I would say Dick Lebeau may be someone you would have to consider for that title.

 

Peace

[BearsFan1974]

I think calling Buddy Ryan the best d-coordinator in history is a bit of a stretch. He was very good but he had some amazing talent under him. I would say Dick Lebeau may be someone you would have to consider for that title.

 

Peace

Lebeau is the GOAT. But just like Ryan, couldn't handle the HC position.

[madlithuanian]

Connor, don't discount Buddy. Old Dick also has had his fair share of talent to work with...

 

Buddy also was responsible for the Purple People Eaters and the huge D perfromance by the Jets in the Super Bowl w/ Joe Willie in it. Held the great Unitas to only 7 points.

 

I think you're too harsh on our '85 legends!

 

I think calling Buddy Ryan the best d-coordinator in history is a bit of a stretch. He was very good but he had some amazing talent under him. I would say Dick Lebeau may be someone you would have to consider for that title.

 

Peace

 

[Connorbear]

Connor, don't discount Buddy. Old Dick also has had his fair share of talent to work with...

 

Buddy also was responsible for the Purple People Eaters and the huge D perfromance by the Jets in the Super Bowl w/ Joe Willie in it. Held the great Unitas to only 7 points.

 

I think you're too harsh on our '85 legends!

I am only because they should have won 2 more titles.

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

Blame it on Mike McCaskey!

 

 

I am only because they should have won 2 more titles.

 

Peace

 

[Daventry]

I think calling Buddy Ryan the best d-coordinator in history is a bit of a stretch. He was very good but he had some amazing talent under him. I would say Dick Lebeau may be someone you would have to consider for that title.

 

Peace

 

 

HAHAHAHA, you must be kidding. This post is a perfect illustration of the anti-post, the I will disagree regardless of reality post. Le Beau vs Buddy Ryan? Can you say Earnhardt vs Labonte?