Larry Fitzgerald available for the right price

[Bears4Ever_34]

If Cutler is getting sacked on 3-step drops, bombed on 5-step drops, and concussed on 7-step drops, when the hell does he have time to wait for Fitzgerald to improvise - which indicates a play that has gone beyond the original design - on his route?

 

You're thinking far too one-dimensionally. Yes, he had 90 catches. How many were because A] he was the only option or B] the Cardinals were losing and had to throw or C] the Cardinals running game sucked?

 

Last but not least, you do not get him "over anybody else." That's the same kind of fantasy football thinking that has made Dan Snyder a joke of an owner.

Did you forget the green font?

[jason]

Did you forget the green font?

 

No. I'm being completely serious. The OL couldn't hold up on regular routes, got Cutler destroyed the entire year, concussed in one game, and straight up injured in the most important game of the year. He does not have time to wait around for Fitzgerald to improvise.

 

Now, if we were talking about the fact that Fitzgerald fights for jump balls and plays defense on poorly thrown balls - where as Knox does neither, and blows routes - then we have a different discussion. I think Fitz would help Cutler out tremendously in this regard.

 

But throwing out his improvisational skills as a reason to get him is retarded since Cutler doesn't have time to run the regular plays, much less improvise (unless you count running for his life as improvising).

[balta1701-A]

would you make the trade if you could get him for knox and hanie?

Hanie's likely a FA, and the Bears aren't going to pay $20 million to franchise tag their backup QB.

 

That said...are you kidding?

[balta1701-A]

BTW, one other note...there can be no trades of players after March 3 until a Collective Bargaining agreement is signed.

 

Therefore, if no CBA is signed before the draft, trading picks for any player is impossible.

[madlithuanian]

of course, but that'll never happen.

 

Kind of like saying would you a pound of gold for $20? Sure...but no one's that foolish to part with it at that price.

 

Sounds like you're thinking in Madden 11 terms!

 

would you make the trade if you could get him for knox and hanie?

 

[madlithuanian]

I generally agree...but if you could get Fitz for a 1 straight up...I think it's worth the gamble. You get a proven commodity that JA seems unable to draft. If he went OL, there's too much of a chance he'd wing it on some up and coming project guy that injured. Not that we should think that way, but Fitz is arguable the best WR in the game when he has a decent QB throwing to him. Cutler could be that guy. I think this move would also be predicated on getting Mankins or similar in FA. A plug & play immediately guy.

 

However, I prefer making a run at V Jack...and just having to pay loot instead of loot and a pick.

 

I didn't even read the entire thread. I'm still against the idea. I think it's a horrible idea. He's great, but the Bears have MUCH more pressing needs than Fitz.

 

OT, OG, FS, DT. All of those positions need to be addressed before JA starts trading ANOTHER first round pick away.

 

[xvflutop]

of course, but that'll never happen.

 

Kind of like saying would you a pound of gold for $20? Sure...but no one's that foolish to part with it at that price.

 

Sounds like you're thinking in Madden 11 terms!

Well not necessarily. Teams have been known to overspend on backup QBs they feel could be franchise players.. I'm not saying Hanie will be, or that the cards would consider him that way. But you never know. I do know however that the cards don't currently employ a QB, contrary to popular belief.

 

Let's modify it somewhat. Lets say they ask for Hanie, Knox, and a draft pick. The pick could be any pick we have this coming draft. The question then becomes who would the Bears get to replace Hanie. Either they are going to have to use a mid level pick to get a replacement, and hope they can fill the backup role or get another vet and pray they aren't related to a Collins. Either way a vet would need to be brought in.

 

When it comes down to it, we have Cutler now. So the goal of the team should be to find players to sit behind him and develop enough into trade material. Not saying Hanie is at the point, but it wouldn't surprise me if at least one or two teams come calling this offseason and inquire about what it would take to give him up. there is no way the bears don't resign or tender him (provided the CBA is completed).

[defiantgiant]

No. I'm being completely serious. The OL couldn't hold up on regular routes, got Cutler destroyed the entire year, concussed in one game, and straight up injured in the most important game of the year. He does not have time to wait around for Fitzgerald to improvise.

 

Now, if we were talking about the fact that Fitzgerald fights for jump balls and plays defense on poorly thrown balls - where as Knox does neither, and blows routes - then we have a different discussion. I think Fitz would help Cutler out tremendously in this regard.

 

But throwing out his improvisational skills as a reason to get him is retarded since Cutler doesn't have time to run the regular plays, much less improvise (unless you count running for his life as improvising).

 

Yeah, I completely agree. The offensive line, by the end of the season, could just about protect long enough for a three-step drop. Anything deeper than that was a foregone conclusion all season long. I think that's why we saw Cutler stop taking normal drops altogether and just backpedal out of the pocket at top speed.

 

That's why I think the Cards' asking price is so important. WR is, in my mind, a more important need than anything BUT offensive line; if getting Fitz meant standing pat on the d-line and at safety, I'd be OK with that. But if Arizona is asking for so much compensation that getting Fitz would mean going into next season with the same offensive line, forget about it. Again, I think it's pretty unlikely that they'd deal Fitz for less than two 1sts, considering that they refused to take a mid-2nd for Anquan Boldin (who was a year older at the time than Fitz is now, not to mention significantly banged up.)

 

Ultimately, that's why I think Vincent Jackson is a slightly more likely target. If he hits FA or if San Diego tags him and is willing to trade him for a 2nd (or even two 2nds, like Brandon Marshall,) then I say go for it and forget about Fitz. That way, we still have a 1st and a 3rd to get a tackle and a guard, and we can give Cutler some protection AND a legit receiver to throw to. Plus we'd still have our 1st next year. Fitzgerald would be awesome, but I'm sure the price will be astronomical.

[jason]

I generally agree...but if you could get Fitz for a 1 straight up...I think it's worth the gamble. You get a proven commodity that JA seems unable to draft. If he went OL, there's too much of a chance he'd wing it on some up and coming project guy that injured. Not that we should think that way, but Fitz is arguable the best WR in the game when he has a decent QB throwing to him. Cutler could be that guy. I think this move would also be predicated on getting Mankins or similar in FA. A plug & play immediately guy.

 

However, I prefer making a run at V Jack...and just having to pay loot instead of loot and a pick.

 

If they traded a 1st rounder for Fitz, it would only be palatable to me if they went OL intensive in the next few rounds. I'm talking about a MINIMUM of 2 of the next 3 rounds. And maybe even a late round flyer on a guy with a combination of good measurables and questionable character.

 

And since that will never happen - mostly because it's apparent that JA and crew think the offensive line is the least important collection of positions on the football team - it's not a good idea. What you'd end up with would be a garbage OL, an injured Cutler, and an statistically underperforming Fitzgerald.

[madlithuanian]

That's what I hope would happen as well....

 

But, yes, it won't. And there's no way Fitz goes for a mere 1st either...

 

If they traded a 1st rounder for Fitz, it would only be palatable to me if they went OL intensive in the next few rounds. I'm talking about a MINIMUM of 2 of the next 3 rounds. And maybe even a late round flyer on a guy with a combination of good measurables and questionable character.

 

And since that will never happen - mostly because it's apparent that JA and crew think the offensive line is the least important collection of positions on the football team - it's not a good idea. What you'd end up with would be a garbage OL, an injured Cutler, and an statistically underperforming Fitzgerald.

 

[madlithuanian]

Knox and Hanie are useless as trade bait. Hanie is a FA. Assuming som semblance of how things worked before this CBA stuff, he can go to the highest bidder. Knox is maybe an interested #12 or #3 for most teams, but nothing to garnish much trade excitement for. In fact, he might be used as a return man for most clubs.

 

Getting a back-up QB will be easy. It's just that management picked the wrong dolt. There will be guys out there to back up the spot for a short period. We lost Jay longer than a few games, and it's over regardless. It pretty much is for any team.

 

Well not necessarily. Teams have been known to overspend on backup QBs they feel could be franchise players.. I'm not saying Hanie will be, or that the cards would consider him that way. But you never know. I do know however that the cards don't currently employ a QB, contrary to popular belief.

 

Let's modify it somewhat. Lets say they ask for Hanie, Knox, and a draft pick. The pick could be any pick we have this coming draft. The question then becomes who would the Bears get to replace Hanie. Either they are going to have to use a mid level pick to get a replacement, and hope they can fill the backup role or get another vet and pray they aren't related to a Collins. Either way a vet would need to be brought in.

 

When it comes down to it, we have Cutler now. So the goal of the team should be to find players to sit behind him and develop enough into trade material. Not saying Hanie is at the point, but it wouldn't surprise me if at least one or two teams come calling this offseason and inquire about what it would take to give him up. there is no way the bears don't resign or tender him (provided the CBA is completed).

 

[lemonej]

Hanie is a RFA so the Bears would have some rights in this situation.

[madlithuanian]

Agreed... V-Jack seems more within the realm of possibility.

 

Yeah, I completely agree. The offensive line, by the end of the season, could just about protect long enough for a three-step drop. Anything deeper than that was a foregone conclusion all season long. I think that's why we saw Cutler stop taking normal drops altogether and just backpedal out of the pocket at top speed.

 

That's why I think the Cards' asking price is so important. WR is, in my mind, a more important need than anything BUT offensive line; if getting Fitz meant standing pat on the d-line and at safety, I'd be OK with that. But if Arizona is asking for so much compensation that getting Fitz would mean going into next season with the same offensive line, forget about it. Again, I think it's pretty unlikely that they'd deal Fitz for less than two 1sts, considering that they refused to take a mid-2nd for Anquan Boldin (who was a year older at the time than Fitz is now, not to mention significantly banged up.)

 

Ultimately, that's why I think Vincent Jackson is a slightly more likely target. If he hits FA or if San Diego tags him and is willing to trade him for a 2nd (or even two 2nds, like Brandon Marshall,) then I say go for it and forget about Fitz. That way, we still have a 1st and a 3rd to get a tackle and a guard, and we can give Cutler some protection AND a legit receiver to throw to. Plus we'd still have our 1st next year. Fitzgerald would be awesome, but I'm sure the price will be astronomical.

 

[madlithuanian]

True, but if some team were that in love with him, they'll probably be able to get him...

 

Hanie is a RFA so the Bears would have some rights in this situation.

 

[defiantgiant]

True, but if some team were that in love with him, they'll probably be able to get him...

 

Well, but the word is that the Bears might hit him with the 2nd-round tender, which would pretty much ensure that he stays in Chicago.

 

Agreed... V-Jack seems more within the realm of possibility.

Yeah, I could see that happening. I don't think getting Jackson AND Mankins is realistic, but it should be do-able to get Jackson and a less heralded FA guard like Justin Blalock from the Falcons or Marshal Yanda from the Ravens. Both those guys are a year or two younger than Mankins and won't command the massive contract that Mankins will. They're not completely dominant players like he is, but they were both solid starters on top-10 offensive lines, and either one should be a huge upgrade over any of Chicago's guards. Add in Anthony Castonzo or Gabe Carimi in the 1st round and another guard in the 3rd, and the Bears should be able to field at least an average o-line next year.

[madlithuanian]

I completley assume Caleb with be back with us as our solid #2...

 

I hear ya! V-Jack and the next tier OL would be beyond awesome. I'd even stop calling JA, JA. We need solid above average OL prospects, and I think those guy you mention would do just that. Mankins could end up being far too pricey for all the needs we have. (Could we get 2 of those guys vs one Mankins for instance?) I would also still draft OL high and often. And a serious grab at a C to replace Olin in a year or 2. Yeah, if we could go from D to C+ on the line, I'd be thrilled!

 

Well, but the word is that the Bears might hit him with the 2nd-round tender, which would pretty much ensure that he stays in Chicago.

 

 

Yeah, I could see that happening. I don't think getting Jackson AND Mankins is realistic, but it should be do-able to get Jackson and a less heralded FA guard like Justin Blalock from the Falcons or Marshal Yanda from the Ravens. Both those guys are a year or two younger than Mankins and won't command the massive contract that Mankins will. They're not completely dominant players like he is, but they were both solid starters on top-10 offensive lines, and either one should be a huge upgrade over any of Chicago's guards. Add in Anthony Castonzo or Gabe Carimi in the 1st round and another guard in the 3rd, and the Bears should be able to field at least an average o-line next year.

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

No. I'm being completely serious. The OL couldn't hold up on regular routes, got Cutler destroyed the entire year, concussed in one game, and straight up injured in the most important game of the year. He does not have time to wait around for Fitzgerald to improvise.

 

Now, if we were talking about the fact that Fitzgerald fights for jump balls and plays defense on poorly thrown balls - where as Knox does neither, and blows routes - then we have a different discussion. I think Fitz would help Cutler out tremendously in this regard.

 

But throwing out his improvisational skills as a reason to get him is retarded since Cutler doesn't have time to run the regular plays, much less improvise (unless you count running for his life as improvising).

Just makin sure

 

But the improvisation isn't the reason I want Fitzgerald. I want him because he is in my opinion, the best wide receiver in the NFL. Like I said before, Larry Fitzgerald on this team is INVALUABLE to anything else we could possibly add on the offensive line. Let me ask you something, would you rather have our first round pick to draft a guy that will still never reach the status of a Larry Fitzgerald career wise? This is my whole point, Larry Fitzgerald >>>>>> {Insert offensive lineman draftee} and it's not even going to be close.

[jason]

Just makin sure

 

But the improvisation isn't the reason I want Fitzgerald. I want him because he is in my opinion, the best wide receiver in the NFL. Like I said before, Larry Fitzgerald on this team is INVALUABLE to anything else we could possibly add on the offensive line. Let me ask you something, would you rather have our first round pick to draft a guy that will still never reach the status of a Larry Fitzgerald career wise? This is my whole point, Larry Fitzgerald >>>>>> {Insert offensive lineman draftee} and it's not even going to be close.

 

Would I rather have Fitzgerald for the next 5-10 years over an unknown? Sure. But taking the opposite approach, would I rather have an Fitzgerald and an injured, surly, disappointing Cutler? Hell no. Which is what I think is more likely in a "get Fitz" scenario.

 

There is definite risk in passing up a roster move like you mention (if it's even possible). But it's playing with house money. Even if you pass on the move, you don't lose. There is a much greater risk, IMHO, if OL is ignored for yet another year. It's risking Cutler's future, and an assortment of dominos falling afterwards.

 

If you could predict the future and tell me that the Bears could get Fitz for a #1, then draft OL with the next three picks, then I'd be all for the deal. But like I said earlier, I don't think JA and co. are going to do anything similar to that. They'd probably get Fitz, get one OL in the next three rounds, and even draft a WR late.

[AZ54]

You can't get Fitz and then three OL with our first three picks because we won't have them. IMO the only reason the Cards are dangling Fitz is to see if it will help them get a QB plus another pick. It's a good year for WRs in the draft so you take a step back for a year and let your young WR develop with the new QB (Kolb?).

[jason]

You can't get Fitz and then three OL with our first three picks because we won't have them. IMO the only reason the Cards are dangling Fitz is to see if it will help them get a QB plus another pick. It's a good year for WRs in the draft so you take a step back for a year and let your young WR develop with the new QB (Kolb?).

 

Huh? You lost me.

 

..."then draft OL with the next three picks"

 

And WTF does Kolb have to do with this? Are you calling Fitz a young receiver and saying the Cardinals will pick up Kolb?

[AZ54]

Cards need a QB and I don't know why they are even inquiring about trading Fitzgerald. But if they are then the only reason I could think of is to get a good young QB on the roster. They are not in position to get one this draft. If I'm not mistaken Fitz is halfway through a 4yr contract and there were rumors this season that he might leave if the Cards can't fix their QB situation quickly. Obviously these two actions are at odds with each other (i.e. you'd lose Fitz while gaining the QB he wanted you to have). However, in the NFL it's a lot easier to find WRs than QBs and this is a good WR draft. I could see the Cards dangling Fitz now while he's at the market peak to see if he could get them some young gun in exchange plus some picks. Another bad season catching passes from Max Hall or Skelton and his trade value likely will go down plus you get into all the new contract issues.

 

Kolb is one of the top young QBs and he is already on the market. I don't mean to imply he's what the Cards want, but he could be. They have other options as well and could look at a veteran to fill the spot for a year or two while they see if Skelton can develop. But would that satisfy Fitz? If not they could be losing him for nothing.

 

In any case I don't see us giving up the picks it would take to get Fitz nor do I see it making sense given that we have a serviceable WR crew, other FA WR options available, and far greater needs on Oline followed by DT.

 

 

[defiantgiant]

So apparently Fitz wants to play for a winner. So it's possible that he'd agree to void the no-trade clause in his contract, if the Cards were in a position to deal him to a contender. Unfortunately, I don't think the Bears are that contender. I agree with AZ54 - I don't see the Bears making a move for him. The Cardinals will probably want a couple of 1sts or a 1st and a quarterback in return, and Chicago needs those draft picks if they're going to be Super Bowl contenders in 2011.

 

I could see a team like the Ravens giving up the draft picks for Fitz. They've drafted so well in the past that they really don't have many needs, and they would definitely be in the Super Bowl conversation with a downfield playmaker at WR. Plus, they could get Fitz and Boldin back together, so they'd have two receivers who have a lot of experience together, plus a great young QB in Flacco.

[ParkerBear7]

Is Larry Fitzgerald politicking here to help increase a chance for the BEARS to make a trade for the star WR?

 

link

 

Fitzgerald: Cutler injury 'like your knee's in space'

February 3, 2011 4:28 PM | 1 Comment

Staff report

 

Arizona Cardinals receiver Larry Fitzgerald, who missed time after spraining an MCL in his right knee during the preseason, can relate to what Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler experienced while trying to play with the injury in the NFC Championship Game.

 

"It was not very painful, but you just don't have any mobility," Fitzgerald said Thursday on "The Boers & Bernstein Show" on WSCR-AM 670. "When you're stopping and you're starting you feel like your knee's in space. There's no resistance when you're stopping, it feels so loose ... I couldn't plant, I couldn't cut. Those things that are required for my position, I just couldn't do."

Asked whether a player can be effective with an MCL injury, Fitzgerald said, "No, I know for a fact that you can't play as effective as you normally would. I can understand and sympathize (with) Jay with the way he was feeling. If you're not playing at your best, you're not usually giving your team the best option."

 

Regarding the heat that Cutler has taken from fellow players and the media, Fitzgerald said, "That's part of what comes with the game: If you're playing the quarterback position you're always going to be scrutinized.

 

"I don't know him that well, but I've always been a fan of his. A guy that's able to battle through diabetes, something that's such a debilitating disease, he's been able to fight through that and overcome that, that speaks volumes for his toughness. ... So I have a tremendous amount of respect for the guy.

[defiantgiant]

All right, well, realistic or not, I'm definitely trading for Fitz in my next Madden franchise.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

"It was not very painful, but you just don't have any mobility," Fitzgerald said Thursday on "The Boers & Bernstein Show" on WSCR-AM 670. "When you're stopping and you're starting you feel like your knee's in space. There's no resistance when you're stopping, it feels so loose ... I couldn't plant, I couldn't cut. Those things that are required for my position, I just couldn't do."

Asked whether a player can be effective with an MCL injury, Fitzgerald said, "No, I know for a fact that you can't play as effective as you normally would. I can understand and sympathize (with) Jay with the way he was feeling. If you're not playing at your best, you're not usually giving your team the best option."

 

"I don't know him that well, but I've always been a fan of his. A guy that's able to battle through diabetes, something that's such a debilitating disease, he's been able to fight through that and overcome that, that speaks volumes for his toughness. ... So I have a tremendous amount of respect for the guy.

 

First: I think it safe to say that those that jumped to the conclusion that Cutler was "pussing out" have now realized that they were wrong. If not openly, with themselves. Even watching replays, and paired with the comments Kreutz made, you could see that Cutler's leg was bothering him. Take his weird looking attempt at riding the stationary bike as an example, he could barely rotate the pedals without difficulty. Anyhow....

 

Secondly: The more I think about it, as much as I would like to have someone like Fitz with the Bears, I just don't see it happening. I agree that the Cards are going to simply want too much. Besides, looking back at the NFC Championship game, what was the one thing that broke down and caused the game to be lost? The "D" stepped up after floundering for a quarter or two. And that was against Rodgers and his heralded passing attack. So...me thinks the "D" is pretty sound at the moment. Was it Cutler??? Nope....see above for why. Pretty clear that it was the o-line which led to Cutler getting hurt. Although the line did improve greatly since the bye adding one or even two key players could make a world of difference.

 

I have heard the O-lineman name out of Atlanta that was mentioned earlier as a good possiblility and recently read that Baltimore Tackle Jared Gaither was another strong contender that could be had for considerably less. Problem being that he is Tackle and I think the Bears need a Guard more than anything at the moment. Like Fitz, Mankins is gonna cost too much and he's too old. K. Williams needs to relocate back to his LT position as he is out of position at LG. Maybe after the last few years he's got a better handle.