Marshall Faulk on Johnny Knox

[BearsFan1974]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...,4136759.column

 

Newly elected Pro Football Hall of Famer Marshall Faulk had some choice comments about the Bears and the Mike Martz offense:

 

"In this offense if you run a slant and a defender is coming down on you then you have to cross his face," he said Tuesday on "Chicago Tribune Live."

 

"But every time I see Johnny Knox run a slant he goes behind the defender and you see an interception go the other way and everyone looks at Jay Cutler and says, 'How did he throw that pass?' That is going to be a mistake no matter who the quarterback is."

 

On the quality of the Bears wide receivers: "I see no pure wideout. When we ran Martz' offense in St. Louis we had three or four pure wideouts. … If you are still teaching that stuff to your wide receivers then in this offense you can't blame the QB."

 

On Cutler: "People in Chicago expect Jay to be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I think he is more like Ben Roethlisberger. Guys who win but sometimes that winning is going to look ugly."

 

 

 

All year we have been saying this about Know and his route running. I just don't like Knox' abilities but his potential just pulls me back in!!!!

[AZ54]

There's no doubt Knox has to fight harder to be in the right position. You see that on some deep throws as well where he doesn't always shield the defender properly. He's still young but he'll be a valuable part of our offense for years to come.

[jason]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...,4136759.column

 

Newly elected Pro Football Hall of Famer Marshall Faulk had some choice comments about the Bears and the Mike Martz offense:

 

"In this offense if you run a slant and a defender is coming down on you then you have to cross his face," he said Tuesday on "Chicago Tribune Live."

 

"But every time I see Johnny Knox run a slant he goes behind the defender and you see an interception go the other way and everyone looks at Jay Cutler and says, 'How did he throw that pass?' That is going to be a mistake no matter who the quarterback is."

 

On the quality of the Bears wide receivers: "I see no pure wideout. When we ran Martz' offense in St. Louis we had three or four pure wideouts. … If you are still teaching that stuff to your wide receivers then in this offense you can't blame the QB."

 

On Cutler: "People in Chicago expect Jay to be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I think he is more like Ben Roethlisberger. Guys who win but sometimes that winning is going to look ugly."

 

All year we have been saying this about Knox and his route running. I just don't like Knox' abilities but his potential just pulls me back in!!!!

 

It's nice to see a legit former star say something we've been saying all year. Knox is directly responsible for about 5 or 6 interceptions this year, but everyone seems to blame Cutler.

[madlithuanian]

Faulk knows what he's talking about. And as you mentioned, a good lot of folks here have been saying the same.

 

I too like Knox's raw speed/ability...but he doesn't seem to have the savvy to be a true every-down threat. To me, he is a good #2 or 3. The guy you toss the ball to when your #1 is doubled and he is completely open!

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...,4136759.column

 

Newly elected Pro Football Hall of Famer Marshall Faulk had some choice comments about the Bears and the Mike Martz offense:

 

"In this offense if you run a slant and a defender is coming down on you then you have to cross his face," he said Tuesday on "Chicago Tribune Live."

 

"But every time I see Johnny Knox run a slant he goes behind the defender and you see an interception go the other way and everyone looks at Jay Cutler and says, 'How did he throw that pass?' That is going to be a mistake no matter who the quarterback is."

 

On the quality of the Bears wide receivers: "I see no pure wideout. When we ran Martz' offense in St. Louis we had three or four pure wideouts. … If you are still teaching that stuff to your wide receivers then in this offense you can't blame the QB."

 

On Cutler: "People in Chicago expect Jay to be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I think he is more like Ben Roethlisberger. Guys who win but sometimes that winning is going to look ugly."

 

 

 

All year we have been saying this about Know and his route running. I just don't like Knox' abilities but his potential just pulls me back in!!!!

 

[defiantgiant]

Faulk knows what he's talking about. And as you mentioned, a good lot of folks here have been saying the same.

 

I too like Knox's raw speed/ability...but he doesn't seem to have the savvy to be a true every-down threat. To me, he is a good #2 or 3. The guy you toss the ball to when your #1 is doubled and he is completely open!

 

Yeah, Knox reminds me of Bernard Berrian in terms of how he plays. Granted, Knox is faster and has better hands, but his limitations are a lot like Berrian: vulnerable to being jammed at the line, doesn't consistently fight for the ball, best at running deep routes outside the numbers. And when we had Berrian, what did we do? Paired him with a big, physical receiver in Moose who could go over the middle and make the tough catches. Berrian

 

I still think Knox has a lot of value in this offense, but he's too easily defended to be the #1 receiving option. Like you said, he needs to be the #2 opposite a possession-type #1 receiver. Pairing Knox with Vincent Jackson, Sidney Rice, or even Steve Smith from the Giants would give us a rich man's version of Moose/Berrian: one fast downfield guy, one dependable possession guy over the middle. Add in Hester and Bennett and you've got a pretty solid WR corps.

[madlithuanian]

I totally agree. If we get a true #1...I think this group could be super dangerous. But, we need a #1... And serious help on the OL to make it work. I think everything else, we can wing. The D should be fine as is and hope for pulling a gem in a later round or a fill in like Rodgers for D rotation.

 

Yeah, Knox reminds me of Bernard Berrian in terms of how he plays. Granted, Knox is faster and has better hands, but his limitations are a lot like Berrian: vulnerable to being jammed at the line, doesn't consistently fight for the ball, best at running deep routes outside the numbers. And when we had Berrian, what did we do? Paired him with a big, physical receiver in Moose who could go over the middle and make the tough catches. Berrian

 

I still think Knox has a lot of value in this offense, but he's too easily defended to be the #1 receiving option. Like you said, he needs to be the #2 opposite a possession-type #1 receiver. Pairing Knox with Vincent Jackson, Sidney Rice, or even Steve Smith from the Giants would give us a rich man's version of Moose/Berrian: one fast downfield guy, one dependable possession guy over the middle. Add in Hester and Bennett and you've got a pretty solid WR corps.

 

[defiantgiant]

I totally agree. If we get a true #1...I think this group could be super dangerous. But, we need a #1... And serious help on the OL to make it work. I think everything else, we can wing. The D should be fine as is and hope for pulling a gem in a later round or a fill in like Rodgers for D rotation.

 

Yeah, that's really it: we need to fix the protection up front and get a go-to WR. We can probably get one more good year out of the current D without any major retooling, just some middle-to-late-round draft picks at DT and CB, plus maybe a late-round or UDFA linebacker for depth/special teams. The offense, though, needs an overhaul up front and a bona fide target for Cutler.

[Controlled Chaos]

It's nice to see a legit former star say something we've been saying all year. Knox is directly responsible for about 5 or 6 interceptions this year, but everyone seems to blame Cutler.

nice to see a star, but yeah most of us have been saying the same thing. The question is why aren't the coaches saying something. There's too much damn leniency with todays players. The first time he did that...be it practice or a game, he needed to be pulled aside and told "this will not be tolerated." I tell you what if you're getting paid a half a million dollars to do something...you should be able to learn from your mistakes the first time you're told. If he does it again...Benched. If he does it again...Cut. Simple as that really. People need to be held accountable. There are enough variables in this damn game teams have to worry about without worrying about someone doing the correct thing. A little attention needs to be paid to the intelligence of players. Not everything is about size and 40 times. You know when you're sitting at home watching the game and you say "WHAT THE HELL WAS HE THINKING???" Well a lot of times.. the answer is simply....he wasn't!! I know Wonderlic isn't the end all be all, but it's all I got...Check it out. Johnny is about as bad as you can get. Johnny Knox Abilene Christian 12/24 11/45. Most others with scores that low are out of the NFL.

 

So if he's already had a "talk" about this(and god hope he has) then I think we can be determine...these mental mistakes will continue to occur.

 

 

 

 

[defiantgiant]

I know Wonderlic isn't the end all be all, but it's all I got...Check it out. Johnny is about as bad as you can get. Johnny Knox Abilene Christian 12/24 11/45. Most others with scores that low are out of the NFL.

 

A lot of guys on that list with above-average scores are out of the NFL or on practice squads. Performance in the NFL isn't correlated with the score at all, from what I can see. Nate Swift, Patrick Turner, Jordan Norwood, Brooks Foster, Manuel Johnson...those guys all had good Wonderlics and did nothing in the NFL.

 

Also, Juaquin Iglesias scored a 27/37 on the Wonderlic, which is well above average. Percy Harvin scored a 12/42. Hakeem Nicks got a 11/31. Michael Crabtree got 15/22. All way below average. Harvin, Nicks, and Crabtree were first-year starters and impact players. Iglesias got dropped to the practice squad after two years because he couldn't learn the Bears' playbook. Now he's fighting for a roster spot on another team. I'm pretty sure a guy's Wonderlic doesn't have much to do with whether he can learn to play wide receiver in the NFL.

[GrizzlyBear]

nice to see a star, but yeah most of us have been saying the same thing. The question is why aren't the coaches saying something. There's too much damn leniency with todays players. The first time he did that...be it practice or a game, he needed to be pulled aside and told "this will not be tolerated." I tell you what if you're getting paid a half a million dollars to do something...you should be able to learn from your mistakes the first time you're told. If he does it again...Benched. If he does it again...Cut. Simple as that really. People need to be held accountable. There are enough variables in this damn game teams have to worry about without worrying about someone doing the correct thing. A little attention needs to be paid to the intelligence of players. Not everything is about size and 40 times. You know when you're sitting at home watching the game and you say "WHAT THE HELL WAS HE THINKING???" Well a lot of times.. the answer is simply....he wasn't!! I know Wonderlic isn't the end all be all, but it's all I got...Check it out. Johnny is about as bad as you can get. Johnny Knox Abilene Christian 12/24 11/45. Most others with scores that low are out of the NFL.

 

So if he's already had a "talk" about this(and god hope he has) then I think we can be determine...these mental mistakes will continue to occur.

Sorry man,. but to think that coach will call out a player to the media is ludacris. It will be evident by the draft and FA. This staff will never say anything to the media or any source that is negative about a player. Look how they handled Tommy harris. Big news all around but Lovie would only say Adams and Toe play warranted them a chance.

[Guest TerraTor]

thats what u get with 5th Round players from community colleges...

[Controlled Chaos]

Sorry man,. but to think that coach will call out a player to the media is ludacris. It will be evident by the draft and FA. This staff will never say anything to the media or any source that is negative about a player. Look how they handled Tommy harris. Big news all around but Lovie would only say Adams and Toe play warranted them a chance.

I never said they should call out a player to the media or at least I didn't intend for it to come across that way. I was saying they need to pull the player aside and talk to him...right when it happens.

 

Also, to defiantgiant...of course there are going to be players with high wonderlic scores that are out of the NFL. If you only have the mental and not the physical....get into coaching. I also get that sometimes an extremely gifted physical player can get away with not having it mentally. After years of repetitions he will most likely catch up mentally as well. For the ridiculously gifted, you're willing to give it that time, but ideally you want a player with both the physical and mental capabilities right off the bat. Someone like Knox, who's ceiling I see as a good 2, is not somebody a team can afford to waste time on waiting for him to "get it". Exceptions like that are made for #1's. You want your #2's and 3's to be the smart ones on the field. They need to be dependable and consistent. Right now the Bears have no #1, Knox, Hester, Bennett, Davis, DA. A little smarts out there can go a long way for the QB.

 

I have to imagine the first time Knox went behind the defender on the slant the coaches let him know about it...so for me that should be enough for him not to make that mistake again. Then again this could just be that "he treats me like a man" approach that these players love so much from these coaches. "Hey Johnny, you need to get in front of the db on those..ok?" You know what though, some players do their own motivation because they are their worst critics, but others...like young, not so bright wide receivers need a good talking to. More like "KNOX....KNOX...get the hell over here!! What are you doing behind the DB on that play? Do you not realize the result will be a pick every time?? That you are hanging your QB out to dry?? You cross his face on that route every god damn time...got it?? Don't let it happen again!" That's all I want. Coach these guys up...and if Knox has already been coached up...which he should have been...then why are we wasting time?? Is his level of talent so high? Is that where we are with average players now...they get a 2 years to show they can follow orders??

 

[Connorbear]

I never said they should call out a player to the media or at least I didn't intend for it to come across that way. I was saying they need to pull the player aside and talk to him...right when it happens.

 

Also, to defiantgiant...of course there are going to be players with high wonderlic scores that are out of the NFL. If you only have the mental and not the physical....get into coaching. I also get that sometimes an extremely gifted physical player can get away with not having it mentally. After years of repetitions he will most likely catch up mentally as well. For the ridiculously gifted, you're willing to give it that time, but ideally you want a player with both the physical and mental capabilities right off the bat. Someone like Knox, who's ceiling I see as a good 2, is not somebody a team can afford to waste time on waiting for him to "get it". Exceptions like that are made for #1's. You want your #2's and 3's to be the smart ones on the field. They need to be dependable and consistent. Right now the Bears have no #1, Knox, Hester, Bennett, Davis, DA. A little smarts out there can go a long way for the QB.

 

I have to imagine the first time Knox went behind the defender on the slant the coaches let him know about it...so for me that should be enough for him not to make that mistake again. Then again this could just be that "he treats me like a man" approach that these players love so much from these coaches. "Hey Johnny, you need to get in front of the db on those..ok?" You know what though, some players do their own motivation because they are their worst critics, but others...like young, not so bright wide receivers need a good talking to. More like "KNOX....KNOX...get the hell over here!! What are you doing behind the DB on that play? Do you not realize the result will be a pick every time?? That you are hanging your QB out to dry?? You cross his face on that route every god damn time...got it?? Don't let it happen again!" That's all I want. Coach these guys up...and if Knox has already been coached up...which he should have been...then why are we wasting time?? Is his level of talent so high? Is that where we are with average players now...they get a 2 years to show they can follow orders??

Outstanding. Agree 100%

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

Henceforth, my issues with the coaching staff and management...

 

Is that where we are with average players now...they get a 2 years to show they can follow orders??

 

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

thats what u get with 5th Round players from community colleges...

Who have the Bears ever drafted in the 5th round from a community college?

[defiantgiant]

Also, to defiantgiant...of course there are going to be players with high wonderlic scores that are out of the NFL. If you only have the mental and not the physical....get into coaching. I also get that sometimes an extremely gifted physical player can get away with not having it mentally. After years of repetitions he will most likely catch up mentally as well. For the ridiculously gifted, you're willing to give it that time, but ideally you want a player with both the physical and mental capabilities right off the bat. Someone like Knox, who's ceiling I see as a good 2, is not somebody a team can afford to waste time on waiting for him to "get it". Exceptions like that are made for #1's. You want your #2's and 3's to be the smart ones on the field. They need to be dependable and consistent. Right now the Bears have no #1, Knox, Hester, Bennett, Davis, DA. A little smarts out there can go a long way for the QB.

My point doesn't have anything to do with #1s or #2s, or with whether the mental aspects of the game are important. My point is that the Wonderlic is basically useless for telling whether a guy is football smart.

 

As a measure of football intelligence, the Wonderlic is wrong as often as it's right. Iglesias did great on it and then couldn't learn the playbook. Nicks, Harvin, and Crabtree did badly and then learned their playbooks no problem. Those aren't guys who had to catch up mentally, or who were getting by on their physical talents. They were ready to go as rookies, mentally and physically, right off the bat. You don't have to do well on the Wonderlic to be smart on a football field. If you don't believe me, here's a study showing no correlation at all between quarterbacks' Wonderlic scores and their performance on the field. So the average score for QBs is 24...some guys like Tom Brady (33), Drew Brees (28), and Peyton Manning (28) had good Wonderlic scores and became good QBs. But Alex Smith (40), Matt Leinart (35), and Ryan Fitzpatrick (48) had MUCH better Wonderlics and became crappy QBs. Any test that ranks Alex Smith ahead of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning for football smarts is probably a lousy test. And then you have guys like Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw, and Jim Kelly (all got 15) who did badly on the Wonderlic and became great.

 

I mean, it's clear that Knox is running his routes wrong, I'm just saying I bet it doesn't have much to do with how he did on his Wonderlic. I'd bet that it has a lot more to do with playing his college ball at a junior college and then Abilene Christian, going against DBs who were never going to make it to the NFL. You don't have to worry about running great routes or crossing the DB's face when you can just run a streak route and blow the top off the defense on every play. Aside from their crappy Wonderlic scores, another thing Nicks, Harvin, and Crabtree have in common is facing big-time competition in college. Football smarts aside, Knox is a couple years behind those guys on the learning curve.

[AZ54]

As a 5th Rd pick Knox has been a great find. He has his shortcomings but he's also still a relatively young WR, especially considering the leap he had to make from college to the pro's. While he's a lot like Berrian I like him better because I think he's more versatile at this point in his career. We can't however blame Knox for not becoming a true #1 WR in the NFL. He is what he is and that still makes a very valuable part of our WR corps. All the pundits talk about how great GBs WR corps is yet Knox had more yards than all but Jennings. Where he finished in overall yards among all WRs is pretty good considering the Oline that was protecting Cutler.

 

I don't feel we must have a true #1 WR to fill out the group. Rather than spending all our money there I think if can get a big body type with good quickness (but not elite deep speed)who can run excellent inside routes and become our go to short yardage guy then it will open things up. That would help in the red zone too. Focus more on fixing the Oline so we can handle some deep drops and allow our fast guys to run all over the field.

[Controlled Chaos]

My point doesn't have anything to do with #1s or #2s, or with whether the mental aspects of the game are important. My point is that the Wonderlic is basically useless for telling whether a guy is football smart.

 

As a measure of football intelligence, the Wonderlic is wrong as often as it's right. Iglesias did great on it and then couldn't learn the playbook. Nicks, Harvin, and Crabtree did badly and then learned their playbooks no problem. Those aren't guys who had to catch up mentally, or who were getting by on their physical talents. They were ready to go as rookies, mentally and physically, right off the bat. You don't have to do well on the Wonderlic to be smart on a football field. If you don't believe me, here's a study showing no correlation at all between quarterbacks' Wonderlic scores and their performance on the field. So the average score for QBs is 24...some guys like Tom Brady (33), Drew Brees (28), and Peyton Manning (28) had good Wonderlic scores and became good QBs. But Alex Smith (40), Matt Leinart (35), and Ryan Fitzpatrick (48) had MUCH better Wonderlics and became crappy QBs. Any test that ranks Alex Smith ahead of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning for football smarts is probably a lousy test. And then you have guys like Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw, and Jim Kelly (all got 15) who did badly on the Wonderlic and became great.

 

I mean, it's clear that Knox is running his routes wrong, I'm just saying I bet it doesn't have much to do with how he did on his Wonderlic. I'd bet that it has a lot more to do with playing his college ball at a junior college and then Abilene Christian, going against DBs who were never going to make it to the NFL. You don't have to worry about running great routes or crossing the DB's face when you can just run a streak route and blow the top off the defense on every play. Aside from their crappy Wonderlic scores, another thing Nicks, Harvin, and Crabtree have in common is facing big-time competition in college. Football smarts aside, Knox is a couple years behind those guys on the learning curve.

It's a slant route. If for some flippin reason the coaches at Abilene Christian didn't teach him positioning then the program should be shut down. But lets say they didn't...You would have to assume the Bears WR coaches taught him right?? Lets say they didn't. The first time he made the mistake in practice...surely they taught him then right?? How about the first time he screwed it up in a game? How about the second? Come on. My thoughts....I think he's been taught this since high school. It's a pretty simple route...and you shouldn't need to be told more than once..."if you do his wrong...you will cost your team" So if he's been taught over and over and is still making the same mistake...I look at that...along with his wonderlic scores...and have to think...is something wrong here or what?

 

Oh and I get that there could be guys that score high and suck...I already said as much. I also said the Wonderlic isn't the end all be all. I also said you could have guys with tremendous physical ability overcome a low score. What I never said anywhere was anything about the Wonderlic determining "football smarts" The questions have nothing at all to do with football. It's just a mental aptitude test. Scoring a 12 the first time and then doing worse the second time, only scoring an 11...might just be a sign that the person is a few beers short of a six-pack.

[defiantgiant]

It's a slant route. If for some flippin reason the coaches at Abilene Christian didn't teach him positioning then the program should be shut down. But lets say they didn't...You would have to assume the Bears WR coaches taught him right?? Lets say they didn't. The first time he made the mistake in practice...surely they taught him then right?? How about the first time he screwed it up in a game? How about the second? Come on. My thoughts....I think he's been taught this since high school. It's a pretty simple route...and you shouldn't need to be told more than once..."if you do his wrong...you will cost your team" So if he's been taught over and over and is still making the same mistake...I look at that...along with his wonderlic scores...and have to think...is something wrong here or what?

 

Yeah, fair enough - clearly SOMETHING's wrong. I don't know if it has to do with reps or intelligence or what, but he definitely doesn't run his routes very well. From quitting on routes to letting DBs in front of him to getting jammed at the line, the guy's not a very polished WR yet. He probably got by on his speed and hands at the college and high school levels, but that's not enough in the NFL.

 

I do still think he'll improve, and he has a lot of value for our offense as-is, but he just shouldn't be the #1 guy.