Chitownhustla Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 just wanted to see what everyone thinks. I know there is a lot of info we dont know but i may be leaning towards the Owners side on this. ill wait to hear your thoughts before i vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Niether. I stand by the fans. F both those groups right now. Get the deal done... Quick f-ing with the fans. We need a fan union or revolt already... just wanted to see what everyone thinks. I know there is a lot of info we dont know but i may be leaning towards the Owners side on this. ill wait to hear your thoughts before i vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted March 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Niether. I stand by the fans. F both those groups right now. Get the deal done... Quick f-ing with the fans. We need a fan union or revolt already... I hear ya, it should be about the fans but it is not so we are left in limbo. I read somewhere that NFl teams only make 20 to 30 million in profit a year after everything is accounted for. This number could be way off but if it is correct i will say i would have thought they were making way more then that. If they are only making that much money i would say the owners are right. One thought on this whole thing that made sense to me was "You can tell when a CBA is one sided when one group wants to opt out and the other is perfectly happy with the ways things are" Judging by the fact the Players were happy with the old CBA and its the Owners that wanted out of that i would say it could be weighed in the Players favor. Either way im working on buying PSl season tickets this year and would hate it if there was a lockout. So i hope they get it figured out!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I hear ya, it should be about the fans but it is not so we are left in limbo. I read somewhere that NFl teams only make 20 to 30 million in profit a year after everything is accounted for. This number could be way off but if it is correct i will say i would have thought they were making way more then that. If they are only making that much money i would say the owners are right. One thought on this whole thing that made sense to me was "You can tell when a CBA is one sided when one group wants to opt out and the other is perfectly happy with the ways things are" Judging by the fact the Players were happy with the old CBA and its the Owners that wanted out of that i would say it could be weighed in the Players favor. Either way im working on buying PSl season tickets this year and would hate it if there was a lockout. So i hope they get it figured out!!! Yes, if true, and I have no idea myself what the truth is, but I've read the players union thinks there's funny bookkeeping going on and that the owners have yet to reveal their full records, which players think is fishy. Also, saying the "players" take such a high percentage of revenue is misleading, only a small handfull do, the others will have to get a job after their 4 year NFL career. ...which isn't the worst thing since that's what normal people do, but considering football is a team game and a minority of players are making 30 times that, it leaves this fan with less positive feelings about the game. With respect to rookies, it also has become a joke since bad teams having a high pick no longer are getting much advantage because they'll have to pay their rook so much even if he's a bust; that's not an argument against the salary cap that enables it, but an argument for a rookie cap, that is, a cap within a cap. Beyond that, both players and owners need to decide to lower ticket prices and expand the ability for fans who don't have that one satellite tv provider to get payperview, even at the expense of their sweetheart deal with the tv provider. They don't have a problem with record high revenues of course, they do have a problem with pricing out normal families and shooting themselves in the foot by taking more money now with the tradeoff of less fans later because less could watch whatever team they might have become hardcore fans of (potential for the kind of fans that buys tickets!). If players & owners want to be petty in the face of record revenue and miss out on much of the money they love so much this season, I won't be cyring into my pillow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Beyond that, both players and owners need to decide to lower ticket prices and expand the ability for fans who don't have that one satellite tv provider to get payperview, even at the expense of their sweetheart deal with the tv provider. They don't have a problem with record high revenues of course, they do have a problem with pricing out normal families and shooting themselves in the foot by taking more money now with the tradeoff of less fans later because less could watch whatever team they might have become hardcore fans of (potential for the kind of fans that buys tickets!). If players & owners want to be petty in the face of record revenue and miss out on much of the money they love so much this season, I won't be cyring into my pillow. They will not voluntarily lower prices. Limited supply and high demand leads to higher prices so they have no reason to lower prices when they are the most popular sport in the U.S. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted March 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 They will not voluntarily lower prices. Limited supply and high demand leads to higher prices so they have no reason to lower prices when they are the most popular sport in the U.S. Peace The reason im trying to get season tickets. You think the price is high for face value, check out how much they go for on stub hub. The cheapest ticket i got last year was 250, there were cheaper in the grandstand way up at the top. GB NFC Championship game i paid $600 which was a great deal in the section i sat in. You dont even want to know how much i spent last year on tickets(i did bring alot of people for business to the games). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'm in the millionaires vs. billionaires club for the most part. However, I do think a lot of those perceptions of owners are misleading. Simply put the Bears family (McCaskeys) make a nice living via the Bears but to imply they are billionaires solely because of the football team is misleading. The could be if they sold the team. It is the same with the Bidwill's out here in AZ. While everyone sees this as simply the players vs. owners everyone is forgetting about all the other costs a team must finance: coaching staff, scouts, front office, etc. and many of those positions have gone way up in salary and/or added positions. Most teams now have so many specialty coaches it's crazy. That said there's plenty of money for everyone to be happy and I believe both sides know this. A lockout really hurts some of these owners too. I can't imagine Jerry Jones knows how to pay the mortgage on his brand new stadium with 8 less football games. He was already in trouble financially before it was even completed. On the players side they know the average career is just 3 years so losing 1 season is a huge deal for a lot of these guys. With incentives like that on both sides I believe a deal will get done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I am decidedly in the owners corner. The thing that I always hear is "the average players' career is 3 years." So F'ing what!!! During those three years, even if they are the lowest paid guy on the team, they get the minimum NFL salary, which is something like $300-$400K per year. They make in their three years what many people make in 8-10 years. Cry me a river. I have a problem with this, but that's not the entire issue given that these guys are the product. I think where the problem arises, for me at least, is that it's difficult to see these BILLIONAIRE owners collectively making decisions that lose all of them money. I just don't see it. These people are, by and large, successful business owners who know about making money. They know about success. They know money, the bottom line, debits and credits. The players, meanwhile, are, on average, not very bright. Sure, there are some very bright guys, but it is my contention that many are idiots, and the percentage is greater than average. If one side knows what is right and wrong with a complex financial deal, it's my belief that it would be the owners. If one side is going to be greedy without knowledge, it's my belief that it would be the players. Overall, I have less of a problem with educated, previously successful business owners making money with a business venture - make no mistake, that's what an NFL team is. It's an investment. I just find it difficult to believe that all these owners would be making this stuff up. They know what it is to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 wheres the neither option? Millionaires fighting billionaires for a bigger piece of the pie when most of us are struggling to pay bills, freak em all I'm following the CFL Go into your boss tommorow & ask to see he's books, demand a better % of the profits & better pension etc & see how long you have a job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulster Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I'm sure if the players didn't spend $25,000 on strippers and rolling 20 deep in their circle of friends, they wouldn't be crying about anything. The only argument I stand with the players is that playing 18 games was not safe.....other than that, time to plan my fall around college football. Go Noles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I hear ya, it should be about the fans but it is not so we are left in limbo. I read somewhere that NFl teams only make 20 to 30 million in profit a year after everything is accounted for. This number could be way off but if it is correct i will say i would have thought they were making way more then that. If they are only making that much money i would say the owners are right. One thought on this whole thing that made sense to me was "You can tell when a CBA is one sided when one group wants to opt out and the other is perfectly happy with the ways things are" Judging by the fact the Players were happy with the old CBA and its the Owners that wanted out of that i would say it could be weighed in the Players favor. Either way im working on buying PSl season tickets this year and would hate it if there was a lockout. So i hope they get it figured out!!! Chris Harris pointed out yesterday that the NFL is considered to be a non-profit organization. Got me thinkibg awful hard. I blame this mess on Goddell. Labor piece since 87 and within 2 yrs of him taking over they lockout the players. Thought it was real telling that during most of the mediation the players were there and 0 owners were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fudgeripple2000 Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Owners I own my own business and if my employee came to me and said they wanted to see my books so they could determine how much of a raise they wanted to get, that person would quickly be an ex-employee. My questions would be; where is your name on the bank loan, the lease of the building, the taxes to employ, insurance.... My point is that the risk falls on the owners. When players like Pacman Jones do stupid things with handguns in strip clubs the media reports it as "Pacman Jones of the Tennessee Titans......" Again the consequences of players actions is also shared with the owners because the player is diminishing the "product" which is the team perception. In Portland some years ago a few players got in trouble for pot. So to the media they were referred as the "jailblazers." So in my opinion where the risk falls so should the money. The players arguement is that there's is a sport that takes alot from their bodies and limits them in the future. Go talk to some open sea fishermen in alaska, coal miners, or some off shore drillers. All of these have a much higher fatality rate than the NFL and a higher diminished capacity the longer the employment. They do the job for the money. The reward outweighs the risk. The players know that it is a great opportunity to possibly make millions. People sympathize with Jamarcus Russell and hope he gets a second chance. I have never heard any remarks for the owner that paid him to suck (bad analogy. nobody feels bad for al davis). It's not the owners fault that 78% of nfl players go bankrupt within two years of retirement. When john stockton was drafted he lived in an apartment for years because he didn't know when his career would be over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted March 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Chris Harris pointed out yesterday that the NFL is considered to be a non-profit organization. Got me thinkibg awful hard. I blame this mess on Goddell. Labor piece since 87 and within 2 yrs of him taking over they lockout the players. Thought it was real telling that during most of the mediation the players were there and 0 owners were i would agree with you but i read an article about the Packers and profit. To give you the major points: 1. Last year the Packers being the only team that have to open up the books to the public made 9.8 million in profit, after everything is paid. 3years before they profited 34 million dollars. 2 major point of the article was the players salaries are growing faster then revenue meaning a lot of clubs are or could be in trouble. I almost shit when i read the packers only made 9 million last year The owners were wanting out of this deal way before Roger got in office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Owners..... First off, why did they buy a team or invest in a team to begin with? For a Non-Profit orginization? To employ Millionaires? No they did it Making Money. Now saying that, I can not see players who make millions for playing a kids game and game that is played in college for a education wanting to see the books on a Org that employs them so that they can milk as much as they can from a guy (or guys) that made thier millions on the economy of sales. I hate unions. They are a Antiquated system that have outlived thier usefullness. Its communist system in our Republic. For thos that would argue that Players Expectant playing career is 3-4 year, So WHAT!!! What is the Working career of Soldiers or Marines. You pay the ulimate sacrifice in those careers with what? 500,000 life insurance, Loose a leg its around 50 percent of your base pay for life with medical retirement, Oh that comes out for a Private to about 500.00 a month. Big F-n deal, D Smith needs to take trip to Walter Reed to get his attitude straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 They will not voluntarily lower prices. Limited supply and high demand leads to higher prices so they have no reason to lower prices when they are the most popular sport in the U.S. Peace Agreed. Every year the Bears sell out for the entire season in 10 minutes. I almost wish the Bears would jack the prices up more to create less of a demand. So many people buy those tickets just so they can sell them at a profit. The day after tickets go on sale, the e-bay market is flooded with $70.00 seats going for $150.00. If you're not a season ticket holder and you don't have connections, if you don't get through in the 1st 10 minutes you're pretty much screwed. Having 2 small children & living 3 hours away, I can't justify spending the time & $$$ to be a season ticket holder. I have thought about spending the $200.00 (for 2 seats) to get on the season ticket waiting list so I can buy single game tickets the day before they go on sale. Does anybody on here have experience with this? I was just wondering if it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 just wanted to see what everyone thinks. I know there is a lot of info we dont know but i may be leaning towards the Owners side on this. ill wait to hear your thoughts before i vote Based on what PFT says, I blame the owners. If they are accurate and the owners met the players half-way, why not get a deal done? Players come and go but we continue to be fans of the Chicago Bears. By the players playing hard-ball, they are hurting the image of the NFL and thus hurting their ability to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Here is a link that explains the NFL being a Non - profit organization. http://www.nonprofitquarterly.org/cohenrep...x-exempt-rules/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondonico Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Can't say which side I'm on so I guess I'm on my side. It's a game that is big really big business. The most popular and biggest money making sport in America I believe. So I have no sympathy for either side. No one is twisting the owners arms to buy a team. No one is twisting the players to play. And I'm really tired of the players complaining that they only have a 3+ year career. What, they can't work like the rest of us for another 30+ years doing regular work afterwards? I'm just getting more and more fed up spending more and more of my hard earned money watching rich people playing games. And make no mistake. The cost for us to watch them is only going up when all this is settled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Based on what PFT says, I blame the owners. If they are accurate and the owners met the players half-way, why not get a deal done? Players come and go but we continue to be fans of the Chicago Bears. By the players playing hard-ball, they are hurting the image of the NFL and thus hurting their ability to make money. Huh? You blame the owners even though they met the players half-way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Anyone catch that Idiot D Smith today talking about how player put all on the line? What a Dork. Can this get any worse with Bart simpson running the show for the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 wheres the neither option? Millionaires fighting billionaires for a bigger piece of the pie when most of us are struggling to pay bills, freak em all I'm following the CFL Go into your boss tommorow & ask to see he's books, demand a better % of the profits & better pension etc & see how long you have a job Amen and amen again. I couldn't agree more with this analogy. Give me the third option of "Neither" or "fans" or something. This is absolute greed to the nth degree. If I didn't like football as much as I do, particularly watching the Bears play, I would swear it off altogether. So like Flea I will look for an alternate outlet in the CFL or NCAA when the time comes. Good luck to the owners and players dealing with a little taste of "reality". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Anyone catch that Idiot D Smith today talking about how player put all on the line? What a Dork. Can this get any worse with Bart simpson running the show for the players. Dude I said the same thing, did he really just say that.... Did thebplayers hired the biggest douche bag they could find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daventry Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 The players better remember the last time they walked out and replacement teams went in, people started to forget about the "regular" players and also the popularity of the sport declined significantly. People will find other things to focus on if football disappears and it may be hard to get some of those people back after they do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 There are some owners that don't reinvest in their teams to keep them competative. Brown in Cincy has substandard workout facilities according to players. Bidwell has been rumored as underspending on winning for a while, but has had some good teams recently. Hell, some have accused the Bears of being cheap, due to scouting, assistant coaches and upfront money. But again, if I own a business, I don't want to be told how to invest MY money. I believe the players deserve a piece, but the owners should solely in charge of how it is divided. Retired players should be entitled to a pension comensurate to their tenure. They should also have a great healthcare plan to take care of the injuries they have incurred over their career. The players should have also taken advantage of the free education they were offered in college. If not, they should have invested part of their contract in an education fund for when their 3 year career is over.(average) I'm kinda split, but leaning toward being on the owners side. Yeah, they are rich, but isn't their ass on the line too? It's their business to manage and reap profit. Show me a player hurting for money and I'll show you an idiot. Here's what I want to see: 16 game season is enough. Players and owners keep the same piece of the pie. Rookie salary cap. Take care of the health of former players. Add 2 playoff teams per conference. No more byes in the playoffs. Move the Superbowl to Saturday, so all can enjoy the parties without being unproductive the next day. Play ball! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Mongo, that is what they were offered, almost to a Tee. And Players as for your " players deserve" They deserve equal share when they invest or buy a team themselves. Why should a Owner give Half his Profits to players? Here is that idiot telling his players lay it on the line. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81eb...le=HP_headlines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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