Mongo3451 Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Aw geez Griz, don't you know you aren't supposed to think positively at all? You can polish it, sprinkle things that smell good on it or call it by another name, but poop is still poop. Our D looks like it could be really good. The skill positions look to be improved as well. We're sitting 20 mil under the cap and have done nothing to upgrade the most glaring deficiency from last season. Oh, and the season before. While I'm positive about the rest of the team. This will be the downfall. Nay sayers about our OL have their place. What's your opinion on how the OL is and/or should look? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I see my work here has been done. It's OK to dislike pessimism, but if you're optimistic about this OL you're crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Patience... This is only the set-up to appease JA and the like who want Williams to succeed. Once that's not happeneing, look to see Spencer at C and Garza moved to one of the Guard spots, and WIlliams pushed to a back-up role. Where he actually could be OK at...as a spot player. So we spent money on Chris Spencer to be a backup to a terribly pathetic Roberto Garza who's not even a real center? Are you freaking kidding me?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yup... I see my work here has been done. It's OK to dislike pessimism, but if you're optimistic about this OL you're crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I see my work here has been done. It's OK to dislike pessimism, but if you're optimistic about this OL you're crazy. Then I guess I'm crazy. I trust Tice that Webb will do fine at LT - or Omiyale will replace him, I trust that the improvement that Williams showed toward the end of last season wasn't a mirage and that he will improve with another TC at LG, I trust that Garza will do fine at C until Spencer learns the line calls and either one will be an improvement to the highest false starting C in league history, I trust that Louis is improved over last year and Garza will be his consistent self at RG, and I trust that Carimi will do fine at RT as his press clippings have suggested so far in camp. Guys, we have over a month of TC for these guys to build from what they learned last year from Tice and gel as a unit. Personally, I think that they will, at the least, start from where they ended the season last year and improve through the season. Will they be perfect? No. Will they miss assignments from time to time? Yes, but every o-line does anyway. But will the team as a whole be improved over last year when we went to the NFCC game? Yes. I think we will. But then again, I must be crazy to even contemplate all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Then I guess I'm crazy. I trust Tice that Webb will do fine at LT - or Omiyale will replace him, I trust that the improvement that Williams showed toward the end of last season wasn't a mirage and that he will improve with another TC at LG, I trust that Garza will do fine at C until Spencer learns the line calls and either one will be an improvement to the highest false starting C in league history, I trust that Louis is improved over last year and Garza will be his consistent self at RG, and I trust that Carimi will do fine at RT as his press clippings have suggested so far in camp. Guys, we have over a month of TC for these guys to build from what they learned last year from Tice and gel as a unit. Personally, I think that they will, at the least, start from where they ended the season last year and improve through the season. Will they be perfect? No. Will they miss assignments from time to time? Yes, but every o-line does anyway. But will the team as a whole be improved over last year when we went to the NFCC game? Yes. I think we will. But then again, I must be crazy to even contemplate all that. Yes. If you honestly believe what you wrote in the first paragraph, then you might be crazy. What in the combined efforts last year indicate to you that Webb and/or Omiyale will do anything other than subpar work? Perhaps you forgot the fact that Cutler was hit and sacked more than any QB in the NFL last year? Why in the world do you trust them when they have at least three OLinemen (i.e. Williams, Garza, Webb) playing out of position? I included Webb because he should be on the bench. They have a month of training camp and preseason games, but last year they had all that AND 16 regular season games AND playoff games, only to find Culter on his ass, with an injury, and more than likely being the reason the Bears didn't make the Super Bowl. Will the whole team be improved? As a whole, yes. I also believe that. All that help on the DEFENSIVE line should pay dividends. Roy Williams and Sanzenbacher could surprise. More time in the Martz offense should help Cutler and the WRs. I even believe that getting rid of Olsen will ultimately help, because it will lead to more max protect and stronger run blocking. But the OL will not be improved. And since it was clearly the worst part of the team last year, that makes the lack of attention nearly criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yes. If you honestly believe what you wrote in the first paragraph, then you might be crazy. What in the combined efforts last year indicate to you that Webb and/or Omiyale will do anything other than subpar work? He had 27 sacks in the first 6 games of the season (4.5 sacks per game average) and 25 in the final 8 games of the season (3.125 per game average). That tells me that they improved as the season went on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 He had 27 sacks in the first 6 games of the season (4.5 sacks per game average) and 25 in the final 8 games of the season (3.125 per game average). That tells me that they improved as the season went on. From the games I watched in the 2nd half of the season, the biggest problem by far on the line was Omiyale. I never really noticed Webb, for good or ill, which for his pedigree I thought was a good thing. At least IMO, getting Omiyale out of that line is the biggest upgrade possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 That's still pretty poor, no? He had 27 sacks in the first 6 games of the season (4.5 sacks per game average) and 25 in the final 8 games of the season (3.125 per game average). That tells me that they improved as the season went on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Omiyale is the worst of a fair to bad lot... I think Webb has some upside, and I wouldn't put it past Tice that he could be a legit starter. I have my doubts, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. However, Omiyale I have no hope for. And I pretty much have about zero for Williams. From the games I watched in the 2nd half of the season, the biggest problem by far on the line was Omiyale. I never really noticed Webb, for good or ill, which for his pedigree I thought was a good thing. At least IMO, getting Omiyale out of that line is the biggest upgrade possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yes. If you honestly believe what you wrote in the first paragraph, then you might be crazy. What in the combined efforts last year indicate to you that Webb and/or Omiyale will do anything other than subpar work? Perhaps you forgot the fact that Cutler was hit and sacked more than any QB in the NFL last year? Why in the world do you trust them when they have at least three OLinemen (i.e. Williams, Garza, Webb) playing out of position? I included Webb because he should be on the bench. They have a month of training camp and preseason games, but last year they had all that AND 16 regular season games AND playoff games, only to find Culter on his ass, with an injury, and more than likely being the reason the Bears didn't make the Super Bowl. Will the whole team be improved? As a whole, yes. I also believe that. All that help on the DEFENSIVE line should pay dividends. Roy Williams and Sanzenbacher could surprise. More time in the Martz offense should help Cutler and the WRs. I even believe that getting rid of Olsen will ultimately help, because it will lead to more max protect and stronger run blocking. But the OL will not be improved. And since it was clearly the worst part of the team last year, that makes the lack of attention nearly criminal. Iam so Glad jason you are expert on the o Line and even better then Tice. I would not know what to do with myself wihtout astute knowledge of how O line play should be. Man I to think wihtout all that knowledge I might have been lost the whole season knowing what was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I find it funny how we may be going into this season with a worse offensive line than we had last year. How is that even possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I find it funny how we may be going into this season with a worse offensive line than we had last year. How is that even possible? Will one of u "experts in oline" knowledge please tell me how this line makeup is so much worse when none of us has seen then in action. I will hold my criticism until the games actually start. All of u are guessing that they will be. I have enough faith in Tice to switch things up if needed. And many of u are acting like this combo is locked in stone. I must have missed that part but I swear Tice said this is the unless someone falters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Bowlingtwig thank you man, I feel like Iam on island in cast away here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Bowlingtwig thank you man, I feel like Iam on island in cast away here. Sometimes I really question why I even come to the board but Pixote did warn me about a few posters on here that act like they know everything before I even signed up and now its been wayyy to long as I think I originally joined the old board back in 05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Will one of u "experts in oline" knowledge please tell me how this line makeup is so much worse when none of us has seen then in action. I will hold my criticism until the games actually start. All of u are guessing that they will be. I have enough faith in Tice to switch things up if needed. And many of u are acting like this combo is locked in stone. I must have missed that part but I swear Tice said this is the unless someone falters. I'll bite. Its not the starting unit. Its the whole unit. LT noted how the sacks went down as the season progressed. True only because the offense was noted as dummied down to prevent sacks. We saw the Martz version of the west coast offense. Still the same group of bad OL. Garza is or best lineman and I doubt he would be a solid starter for any team in the league. Tice can not overcome neglect by the GM, no matter how good his rep may be. There's a reason most of these guys were late round picks, undrafted or released. No one needs to be an expert to see the past and not see enough of it changed to effect the future. If we run the ball 60% of the time, it may help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killakrzydav Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 We saw the Martz version of the west coast offense. Still the same group of bad OL. I am absolutely fine with seeing Martz' version of the west coast offense. We lost one game that mattered post bye (7-1) last year prior to the NFCC. You give me all those wins and you can keep the slowest show in our division's turf. I want wins not flashy stats. DUH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2011080...orts/708089772/ For those interested in Tice's current evaluation, read this article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I am absolutely fine with seeing Martz' version of the west coast offense. We lost one game that mattered post bye (7-1) last year prior to the NFCC. You give me all those wins and you can keep the slowest show in our division's turf. I want wins not flashy stats. DUH I agree it had to happen. And loved theW's. Was just using that to counterpoint to point why the sacks slowed. It was not due to any vast improvement of the line. Anyway, how could they not improve from where they started? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I agree it had to happen. And loved theW's. Was just using that to counterpoint to point why the sacks slowed. It was not due to any vast improvement of the line. Anyway, how could they not improve from where they started? Agreed. The thing is, the o-line actually looked average after the bye-week. We did a nice job of run blocking. That tells me we're not THAT far off. But if we go back to Martz's scheme, effing forget about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'll bite. Its not the starting unit. Its the whole unit. LT noted how the sacks went down as the season progressed. True only because the offense was noted as dummied down to prevent sacks. I'll agree that running the ball more kept defenses from teeing off on Cutler because they had to be concerned with with running right by Forte, I would suggest that ANY offensive line (save a group of vets in their prime that have worked together in the same scheme for years) would have the same issues. In other words, they should improve simply due to the young guys getting more experience in both general and everyone should improve due to more experience in the scheme. If we started the season with a bunch of highly rated free agents, they would still have to get used to each other and the scheme. I get that you guys are disappointed that we decided to develop young guys that Tice likes and you guys don't instead of spending higher draft picks or more on costly free agents, but imo, Tice knows more than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Here's another article about the O-line. This one from Greg Gabriel who has been known to throw the team under the bus since he got fired. http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Can-th...th-in-2011.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Here's another article about the O-line. This one from Greg Gabriel who has been known to throw the team under the bus since he got fired. http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Can-th...th-in-2011.html Nice article. I hope hes right. Counterpoint being, who did he help draft that turned out? OL of course. Two things I like are the size and playing style versus the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Iam so Glad jason you are expert on the o Line and even better then Tice. I would not know what to do with myself wihtout astute knowledge of how O line play should be. Man I to think wihtout all that knowledge I might have been lost the whole season knowing what was wrong. Who chose the OL last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'll agree that running the ball more kept defenses from teeing off on Cutler because they had to be concerned with with running right by Forte, I would suggest that ANY offensive line (save a group of vets in their prime that have worked together in the same scheme for years) would have the same issues. In other words, they should improve simply due to the young guys getting more experience in both general and everyone should improve due to more experience in the scheme. If we started the season with a bunch of highly rated free agents, they would still have to get used to each other and the scheme. I get that you guys are disappointed that we decided to develop young guys that Tice likes and you guys don't instead of spending higher draft picks or more on costly free agents, but imo, Tice knows more than we do. I agree, in theory, with the bolded part. And I hope to eat crow all season long (doubtful). But a BIG part of OL play is cohesion. 3/5 of the OL is playing where they weren't last year. And one of the three, Garza, is not only out of place, but playing the position of leader. Regarding Tice's evaluations, look at it from the pessimist's point of view: Webb - "...they're both getting better...going to be really good players..." - This says to me that Webb is, at best, average right now. Considering Webb was rated the worst OL in the league last year (from the only source I found that rates individual OL), the claim sounds like some of the smoke JA blows. Williams - "Chris is getting better...things for Chris to work on...anchoring with the base...on [his] toes...He's working diligently on it." - This says Williams is still not great at OG, and is too easily blown back. Garza - "There’s some anxiety there for Roberto...He’s only started one game at center in his career. At first I don’t know that he was totally embracing it...he doesn’t have the same awareness and those type of things" - Read: Is not a Center, doesn't quite have the hang of playing Center, because, ya know, Center is a different position that takes guys years to master. Louis - "He’s had some experience, he’s played in some games, and he has more confidence. He’s communicating better; he’s opening his mouth...he’s doing better in the run game. He can run. He’s definitely ahead of where he was last year - Still sounds like he sprouts wood whenever Louis is in the room. Also sounds like Louis isn't a very good run blocker. Carimi - "Gabe is obviously a better run blocker...that's all they do at Wisconsin" - Gabe is not good at pass blocking. Of course, we all know that no coach is going to throw his players under the bus, specifically after naming them the starters, but a lot of what Tice said sounds somewhat superfluous because he can't come right out and say what most think, and what most saw last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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