Tice announces OL

[Mongo3451]

One more thing. Last year, didn't Tice proclaim that Williams was going to be the elite LT of the NFC North for the next decade?

[madlithuanian]

Thanks for the post. I wasn't familiar with that site.

 

Here's another article about the O-line. This one from Greg Gabriel who has been known to throw the team under the bus since he got fired.

 

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Can-th...th-in-2011.html

 

[GrizzlyBear]

I agree, in theory, with the bolded part. And I hope to eat crow all season long (doubtful). But a BIG part of OL play is cohesion. 3/5 of the OL is playing where they weren't last year. And one of the three, Garza, is not only out of place, but playing the position of leader.

 

Regarding Tice's evaluations, look at it from the pessimist's point of view:

Webb - "...they're both getting better...going to be really good players..." - This says to me that Webb is, at best, average right now. Considering Webb was rated the worst OL in the league last year (from the only source I found that rates individual OL), the claim sounds like some of the smoke JA blows.

 

Williams - "Chris is getting better...things for Chris to work on...anchoring with the base...on [his] toes...He's working diligently on it." - This says Williams is still not great at OG, and is too easily blown back.

 

Garza - "There’s some anxiety there for Roberto...He’s only started one game at center in his career. At first I don’t know that he was totally embracing it...he doesn’t have the same awareness and those type of things" - Read: Is not a Center, doesn't quite have the hang of playing Center, because, ya know, Center is a different position that takes guys years to master.

 

Louis - "He’s had some experience, he’s played in some games, and he has more confidence. He’s communicating better; he’s opening his mouth...he’s doing better in the run game. He can run. He’s definitely ahead of where he was last year - Still sounds like he sprouts wood whenever Louis is in the room. Also sounds like Louis isn't a very good run blocker.

 

Carimi - "Gabe is obviously a better run blocker...that's all they do at Wisconsin" - Gabe is not good at pass blocking.

 

Of course, we all know that no coach is going to throw his players under the bus, specifically after naming them the starters, but a lot of what Tice said sounds somewhat superfluous because he can't come right out and say what most think, and what most saw last year.

 

I got real good feeling that you will eat crow. Enjoy the sauce as well.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Sometimes I really question why I even come to the board but Pixote did warn me about a few posters on here that act like they know everything before I even signed up and now its been wayyy to long as I think I originally joined the old board back in 05

You know what bugs me? When people create a false reality to a situation that doesn't exist. I like how you added the "Expert" line in response to my previous post when my comment had nothing to do with me acting like an expert. In fact, I don't even see where a comment like mine would even warrant such a response. I mean we did, after all have the worst offensive line in the league last year right? So in light of losing Kreutz and replacing him with Roberto Garza, who's not even a real center, the only thing the Bears have even done to this line is draft an unproven rookie who's been switched to RT and we decided to move last year's 7th round pick, Jamarcus Webb to the most difficult position on the offensive line after struggling mightily last year at RT. That can't instill much confidence, given our performance last year.

 

What's the point in even having a message board at all if nobody here is employed by the Bears? I mean, you are asking for experts right? Why should I believe anything you say if you aren't an expert?

[lemonej]

I purposely responded to no one's post on this thread because it is getting more and more clear that a lot of us who are posting on this board are taking evey post just a little too personal. Come on people this is not world solving stuff we discuss here but a way to escape our daily grind and talk about something that is supposedly pleasing to all of us.

I have to thank quite a few guys for reeling me in many post ago for wearing the Michael Jackson glitter glove when posting. Lets not make this a place to avoid by being negative to each other because we shouls all want the same thing a Super Bowl Champion.

[madlithuanian]

I feel your frustration, as I understand why others get frustrated by some of the negative things that are said.

 

I just think we all intuitively know none of us work for the Bears or NFL (unless one of us is a spy). We are all loaded with our own pre-conceptions and leanings. Some are more positive - finding the silver lining among dark clouds. Others see the light at the end of the tunnel as an oncoming train. (Guilty as charged...)

 

The simple fact that we're all here throwing our thoughts up is that we all care. A lot. In fact, most professional theapists would probably say we care too much. But, so be it!

 

Stalin was wrong. Just because he was in charge at the time doesn't mean that my direct opposite thoughts aren't correct. The same goes with decisions made by our team. Some are right, some are wrong. I'm sure if we were to jot down every move we fans wanted to do vs what was done...there would probably be about the same hits & misses. Just different. Maybe the overall impact of one over the other would be greater. But, we'll never know. But as long as we all bleed the navy and orange...and expect to disagree on a few to many things...I think we're all in agreement that we want to win Super Bowls. Many of them!

 

I come here for everything. The agreement. The disagreement. The humor. The insanity. The reason. You name it. Everyone here brings something different to the table. And I love that!

 

I say keep it coming from all directions! Like all things, this board must evolve and change, or it will fail. I've seen it for the many years I've been posting here and on the Bearstalk old site. I've bantered with some of you for a long time, others. not so long. But, all I can say is I freakin' love it! ..and realise that it'll never be like it was "back in the day". Nor will the Bears be.

 

Bottom line, you guys are as passionate about the Bears as I am!

 

Good or bad OL...I think at best we could be a step better than last year, and at worst, we'll spoil a few parades. Either way, I'm going to savor it all...and still probably be pissed off at the coaches and management no matter what happens!

 

Bear the F*&K down!

 

 

 

 

You know what bugs me? When people create a false reality to a situation that doesn't exist. I like how you added the "Expert" line in response to my previous post when my comment had nothing to do with me acting like an expert. In fact, I don't even see where a comment like mine would even warrant such a response. I mean we did, after all have the worst offensive line in the league last year right? So in light of losing Kreutz and replacing him with Roberto Garza, who's not even a real center, the only thing the Bears have even done to this line is draft an unproven rookie who's been switched to RT and we decided to move last year's 7th round pick, Jamarcus Webb to the most difficult position on the offensive line after struggling mightily last year at RT. That can't instill much confidence, given our performance last year.

 

What's the point in even having a message board at all if nobody here is employed by the Bears? I mean, you are asking for experts right? Why should I believe anything you say if you aren't an expert?

 

[madlithuanian]

Spoken like a true wiseman lemonej!

 

 

I purposely responded to no one's post on this thread because it is getting more and more clear that a lot of us who are posting on this board are taking evey post just a little too personal. Come on people this is not world solving stuff we discuss here but a way to escape our daily grind and talk about something that is supposedly pleasing to all of us.

I have to thank quite a few guys for reeling me in many post ago for wearing the Michael Jackson glitter glove when posting. Lets not make this a place to avoid by being negative to each other because we shouls all want the same thing a Super Bowl Champion.

 

[jason]

I got real good feeling that you will eat crow. Enjoy the sauce as well.

 

I will gladly chow down, Grizz. But I don't think I will. The OL has stunk for multiple years in a row, and this group doesn't make me very hungry.

[jason]

You know what bugs me? When people create a false reality to a situation that doesn't exist. I like how you added the "Expert" line in response to my previous post when my comment had nothing to do with me acting like an expert. In fact, I don't even see where a comment like mine would even warrant such a response. I mean we did, after all have the worst offensive line in the league last year right? So in light of losing Kreutz and replacing him with Roberto Garza, who's not even a real center, the only thing the Bears have even done to this line is draft an unproven rookie who's been switched to RT and we decided to move last year's 7th round pick, Jamarcus Webb to the most difficult position on the offensive line after struggling mightily last year at RT. That can't instill much confidence, given our performance last year.

 

What's the point in even having a message board at all if nobody here is employed by the Bears? I mean, you are asking for experts right? Why should I believe anything you say if you aren't an expert?

 

Thank you.

 

It's not like those of us saying the OL sucks, and sucked last year, don't have a mountain of evidence to build on. But Tice comes out with one article blowing the collective OL this year and we're supposed to believe they're suddenly top 10 in the NFL...even though I'm pretty sure he said some glowing things about False Start Frank before last season.

 

I suspect this year will imitate last year: D & ST carries the team, offense performs moderately while struggling to keep Cutler upright.

[AZ54]

I think the Oline will be better this year simply from the standpoint it's the second year in the offense, and we shouldn't be shuffling the deck a whole lot. I still wish we had picked up a FA OG. Regardless, it's possible we can achieve "average" this year and that would be a huge step up. I'm not confident on the left side but if Lance Louis can figure out how to run block, and there are some signs that is happening, then we will be able to run right all year long. Last year we didn't have one thing we could do dependably.

 

 

[AZ54]

Wow, we are a lot bigger on the Oline this year. I didn't realize how much Williams and Louis had gained in strength. .

[azbearsfan]

Well alot of the o lines success or failure will be tied to if Martz actually learned anything from last year. If he insists on the 7 step drop as a staple then it line will be bad. If he mixes it up like after Lovie lit his ass up, then the o line will be fine.

[bradjock]

Sometimes I really question why I even come to the board

 

I'm guessing you come here because you love the Bears and you love football! That's awesome. Some come here to bitch about the team because they are frustrated they haven't won the Super Bowl in 25 years. Lemon and Madlith already pointed out that this is just all good fun. Ultimately, it's a stupid damn game and a nice escape from reality.

 

but Pixote did warn me about a few posters on here that act like they know everything before I even signed up

 

True. Every team has that.

 

and now its been wayyy to long as I think I originally joined the old board back in 05

 

I remember when you joined and I can't believe it's been that long. (I'm pretty sure I joined in 03 . . . it kind of makes me sick how much time I've spent talking about the Bears. )

 

That being said, I love your optimism. Keep it up. (I promise to continue being happy with the Bears today and pissed tomorrow

[jason]

Well alot of the o lines success or failure will be tied to if Martz actually learned anything from last year. If he insists on the 7 step drop as a staple then it line will be bad. If he mixes it up like after Lovie lit his ass up, then the o line will be fine.

 

To me this seems like two different topics almost.

 

Agreed with your post, in part. If Martz consistently uses the 7-step drops, I have a feeling this OL will look like flaming shit. He has to at least modify some of his gameplan towards the teams' talent, or lack thereof.

 

Don't you wish, however, that he could deploy the entire playbook and didn't have to hold back because the OL is subpar?

 

 

[balta1701-A]

Don't you wish, however, that he could deploy the entire playbook and didn't have to hold back because the OL is subpar?

Honestly, I'm not quite sure. If Martz was allowed to do everything his gut told him, don't you think the team would be passing downfield 85% of the time?

[jason]

Honestly, I'm not quite sure. If Martz was allowed to do everything his gut told him, don't you think the team would be passing downfield 85% of the time?

 

Yes. I do think that. And while it would be a terrible waste of a good RB in Forte, it would be nice to have a consistently prolific offense for once in my lifetime. At least the chance at it would be great to see. The Bears have always been about D, and I love that, but it would be awesome to know my team was putting up 30 points on offense every day, regardless of opponent.

[lemonej]

Yes. I do think that. And while it would be a terrible waste of a good RB in Forte, it would be nice to have a consistently prolific offense for once in my lifetime. At least the chance at it would be great to see. The Bears have always been about D, and I love that, but it would be awesome to know my team was putting up 30 points on offense every day, regardless of opponent.

When it comes to this thought,I feel like one of those old sitcom or cartoon skits where the angel and devil are on each shoulder and the angel is saying" you have to run the ball in December on the lakefront in Chicago" and the devil is saying "screw that sling that sucker your defense will get it back if you mess up."

 

Watching Marshall Faulk enter the HOF this pass weekend as a RB who became prolific in Martz's system has me intrigued to the point where I wish I could see some footage of how he was used in the run game as opposed to the passing game because Faulk was built more along the lines of Chester Taylor while Forte is a little taller and bigger. I had a chance to watch the Bears 2010 higlights last Sunday after the Final Word on Fox32 and I saw how at times Forte was split out wide and matched up one on one with LBs and safeties.I think the fact that Olsen is no longer here will make Forte much more utilized in the passing game.I have seen predictions of how many catches that Roy Williams will have but if Williams has more than 20 over Forte then I think the Bears may have a long season.Forte should have at least 20 catches on check downs and screens alone.

[balta1701-A]

When it comes to this thought,I feel like one of those old sitcom or cartoon skits where the angel and devil are on each shoulder and the angel is saying" you have to run the ball in December on the lakefront in Chicago" and the devil is saying "screw that sling that sucker your defense will get it back if you mess up."

 

Watching Marshall Faulk enter the HOF this pass weekend as a RB who became prolific in Martz's system has me intrigued to the point where I wish I could see some footage of how he was used in the run game as opposed to the passing game because Faulk was built more along the lines of Chester Taylor while Forte is a little taller and bigger. I had a chance to watch the Bears 2010 higlights last Sunday after the Final Word on Fox32 and I saw how at times Forte was split out wide and matched up one on one with LBs and safeties.I think the fact that Olsen is no longer here will make Forte much more utilized in the passing game.I have seen predictions of how many catches that Roy Williams will have but if Williams has more than 20 over Forte then I think the Bears may have a long season.Forte should have at least 20 catches on check downs and screens alone.

The biggest problem with Martz running his ideal system is protection. If he has a solid line performance, then it won't matter whether or not he's calling 75% passes and 25% runs, because Forte will still get his touches and they'll be outside the pocket (which is, arguably where he's more effective anyway).

 

The big issue is that he doesn't have Orlando Pace as his LT here, he has a 7th round draft pick. If the line plays like that Rams line, then his aggressive offense, fast receivers, and big armed QB will destroy people. If the line plays like last year's line, then he has to push the run more.

[jason]

The biggest problem with Martz running his ideal system is protection. If he has a solid line performance, then it won't matter whether or not he's calling 75% passes and 25% runs, because Forte will still get his touches and they'll be outside the pocket (which is, arguably where he's more effective anyway).

 

The big issue is that he doesn't have Orlando Pace as his LT here, he has a 7th round draft pick. If the line plays like that Rams line, then his aggressive offense, fast receivers, and big armed QB will destroy people. If the line plays like last year's line, then he has to push the run more.

 

Is there an echo in here? That's why I said it was sort of two different topics.

 

On one hand you can't blame Martz for wanting to install his offense. You can blame the lack of talent at the OL that severely limits the play-calling and playbook. If he had his way, the Bears would probably throw the majority of the time and Cutler would be over 4000yds.

 

On the other hand, Martz has to realize that the Bears do not place a premium on OL; as such, he needs to modify his strategy to maximize the abilities on the team (i.e. run more, use fewer 7-step drops).

 

Ultimately, it comes back to the fact that the Bears OL has been subpar to horrendous for roughly 5 years, and until that gets fixed any OC that comes in will have to apply his offense as if it were on crutches.

[lemonej]

Is there an echo in here? That's why I said it was sort of two different topics.

 

On one hand you can't blame Martz for wanting to install his offense. You can blame the lack of talent at the OL that severely limits the play-calling and playbook. If he had his way, the Bears would probably throw the majority of the time and Cutler would be over 4000yds.

 

On the other hand, Martz has to realize that the Bears do not place a premium on OL; as such, he needs to modify his strategy to maximize the abilities on the team (i.e. run more, use fewer 7-step drops).

 

Ultimately, it comes back to the fact that the Bears OL has been subpar to horrendous for roughly 5 years, and until that gets fixed any OC that comes in will have to apply his offense as if it were on crutches.

Jason I only disagree with the time span and believe the O-line has been poor since Blake Brockermeyer got hurt during the Jauron era.The previous year I could only name him,Big Cat and Kreutz as the core of that line and honestly since the line had problems when Wannie was here and Kramer was getting blasted,I believe we could almost say the problem is chronic.

[Lucky Luciano]

Jason I only disagree with the time span and believe the O-line has been poor since Blake Brockermeyer got hurt during the Jauron era.The previous year I could only name him,Big Cat and Kreutz as the core of that line and honestly since the line had problems when Wannie was here and Kramer was getting blasted,I believe we could almost say the problem is chronic.

 

i will agree with the statement "chronic" relating to our offensive line problems. we ran the linemen finks drafted as long as possible and replaced them with some 'decent' players or at least average players who most did nothing to distinguish themselves. some very poor choices by our fearless leader mikey. but if you thought we were bad before, our REAL problems started when angelo took control of the reins as our GM.

 

didn't they have a fair line in '99-2000 with a young brockermeyer, who was fair to good, and big cat at tackle? the guards were vilarale who in my opinion was an above average guard on the right side and todd perry who seemed to have injury problems on the left with kreutz at center. they had some decent depth with wiegeman at G/C, and rex tucker at G but were weak for depth at T.

 

in 2001 they got rid of perry and went with tucker at LG and wiegeman a pretty good player also was gone. brokenmeyer was injured (i don't remember)? their depth all around on the offensive line was poor with an aging big cat.

 

this was the beginning of the angelo dynasty.

 

by 2002 it was a catastrophe. at tackle brokenmeyer was gone. we drafted columbo who was promptly injured after 5 games at LT (playing out of position?), and replaced by bernard robinson (a 5th rd pick in 2001) and big cat was getting up there in age at 34. at left guard angelo must have gotten rid of perry and he was replaced by tucker who was always injured who was replaced by gandy (a 2001 3rd round pick), and kevin dogins a ham and egger from the bucs. this was the year the mighty metcalf was drafted in rd. 3.

 

by 2003 we fielded gandy at LT, 2002 undrafted steve edwards at LG, kreutz, vilarrial at RG, got rid of big cat and replaced him with the always great aaron gibson at RT. our depth was horrendous with metcalf, rookie josh warner G/C (another walk-on), scott sanderson T, rookie q. mitchell (another walk-on?) at G/T and corbin lacina G.

 

great talent you put together there angelo.

 

2004 - 2011 the mess just goes on and gets even worse.