jerry angelo... village idiot or just criminally stupid?

[Lucky Luciano]

Whatever. Angelo exists so people on this board can criticize 99% of the stuff he does. It doesn't matter what the team's record is.

 

do you think maybe there is a 99% valid reason why people criticize him?

 

let me ask you to define your definition of the duties or job description of an NFL GM.

 

here are mine:

 

1. he has to find and hire the best coaches. this is paramount in how well your franchise will perform. let's look at how he has done...

 

he extended dick jauron's contract when it was completely unnecessary. he extended the contract of maybe the worst offensive coordinator in the history of the NFL in john shoop. he fumbled the hiring of chris sabin and finally hired a coach in lovie smith who wasn't even stellar in what he did in the nfl. smith had no idea how to even give input into an offense let alone decide who should be hired. a coach who was unbending in his philosophy on defense whether is works or not. someone who DOES hire and promote cronies instead of qualified personel and sticks by them to a fault JUST like jauron did who he just fired.

 

on top of all this angelo extends HIS contract when it was unnecessary also and we are stuck paying a lame duck coach enough money that the owners won't cut him loose when the president, gm and head coach all should have been fired for gross incompetence.

 

he hires shay another candidate for the worst offensive coordinator in NFL history. he then fires him and hires someone who has failed in the worst way in the college ranks as an OC. in the mean time he fires a DC who actually is doing his job well to replace him with someone who is a crony of his HC who is one of the worst DC's ever hired in chicago and keeps him around for 2 years before demoting him. then hires another OC crony of his HC who nobody else in the NFL will give a contract to in martz. will that turn out? who knows. it nearly got our franchise qb killed last season.

 

2. he has to be able to draft successfully and especially in the first 3 rounds. of the 26 picks that he actually made and didn't trade away in rounds 1-3 there is 2 penciled in quality starters (who are on their last leg in the NFL) in tillman and briggs. i could possibly give you forte so that would make 3? so, in 10 years (not counting this draft) that is IT!!! that is not bad, that is pathetic!!!

 

now you say, but what about the other 53 picks in rounds 4-7? i can't think of a single quality starting player on this entire team he drafted in these rounds that are here and starting.

 

if a GM can't draft even average starting players over TEN YEARS that is failure in the first degree. why do you think we have so many free agents on this roster? wouldn't it be fantastic to just have to worry about resigning good starting players we drafted or drafting short to long term replacements for quality players we already have?

 

so yea... whatever.

 

[Lucky Luciano]

I can't say I completely agree with JA and Co on everything, but to say he is stupid is a bit much even if the team were losing, much less coming off a year like last year. I think we can question his strategy in various ways but to brand him as an idiot overall is inaccurate and a bit ignorant in and of itself.

 

well, what do you call someone who faces the same problems every single year for 11 years and fails to even see what is plain to any layman, let alone nfl expert, and does nothing to correct the problem? someone who makes the same mistakes every year and still expects different results? insane?

 

i call them stupid but if you prefer insane i can live with that.

 

[Lucky Luciano]

Wasn't Brady a 5th or whatever round "nobody"? Funny thing is the Bears are taking "flyers" on OTHER teams' high round picks (Okoye, Gholsten, Williams) that were graded high (by other teams) but didn't pan out. I'm ok with seeing if maybe, just maybe these guys, given a second chance, could prove their former ratings. Imagine if just one or two of them do how much better the team will be? Hell look at what a "no-name" like Idonije did playing alongside a guy like Peppers.

 

isn't the point of all of this that if angelo could draft anyone with talent we wouldn't have to pick up these types of players and hope for the brass ring year after year?

 

angelo has drafted FIFTEEN defensive linemen in 11 years and not a single one is even a starter on this team!!!

 

by the way, brady was a 6th round pick.

 

Actually you should be worried more about what happens in about 4-5 years when players like Urlaccher, Peppers, Briggs Forte etc start to reach their shelf life...or beyond. But you must "win now" or bust so they are trying to do that. Got close last year, let's wait to see how things pan out this year first.

 

actually this is the top of the mountain of my critique of angelo. within 4-5 years we will have absolutely nobody we have drafted to replace anyone on this team as it stands right now. on offense we have no young prospect for any guard position OR left tackle at all. we have no prospect for a #1 receiver. we just traded away our first round TE who was the only one with any chance of being a pro-bowl caliber player. on defense we need 2 cornerbacks, MAYBE 2 safeties, 3 linebackers, 2 probable defensive ends, and unknown at defensive tackle.

 

this is not a half empty glass scenario. this is the reality as to how this franchise has not drafted quality players for over 10 years to fill our roster as starters.

 

finally, let me say this... close to me is meaningless. ask any fan, especially non-bear fans, what they thought of the 77 bears, the 79 bears, 86 bears, the 87 bears, etc. etc.

 

 

[lemonej]

isn't the point of all of this that if angelo could draft anyone with talent we wouldn't have to pick up these types of players and hope for the brass ring year after year?

 

angelo has drafted FIFTEEN defensive linemen in 11 years and not a single one is even a starter on this team!!!

 

by the way, brady was a 6th round pick.

 

 

 

actually this is the top of the mountain of my critique of angelo. within 4-5 years we will have absolutely nobody we have drafted to replace anyone on this team as it stands right now. on offense we have no young prospect for any guard position OR left tackle at all. we have no prospect for a #1 receiver. we just traded away our first round TE who was the only one with any chance of being a pro-bowl caliber player. on defense we need 2 cornerbacks, MAYBE 2 safeties, 3 linebackers, 2 probable defensive ends, and unknown at defensive tackle.

 

this is not a half empty glass scenario. this is the reality as to how this franchise has not drafted quality players for over 10 years to fill our roster as starters.

 

finally, let me say this... close to me is meaningless. ask any fan, especially non-bear fans, what they thought of the 77 bears, the 79 bears, 86 bears, the 87 bears, etc. etc.

Lucky Lou the problem is that on this board we are mostly Bear fans and could care less what non Bear fans think about our history because THEY ARE NOT FANS OF THE BEARS. If you are aligning yourself with non-Bear fans what does that make you?

[Lucky Luciano]

Lucky Lou the problem is that on this board we are mostly Bear fans and could care less what non Bear fans think about our history because THEY ARE NOT FANS OF THE BEARS. If you are aligning yourself with non-Bear fans what does that make you?

 

i don't know... you tell me what it makes me.

 

if you don't GET the point, fine, just ask but don't give me that nonsense bull$#!& LOVE EM OR LEAVE EM or imply someone is not a fan who doesn't fall into lock step with poor management practices.

[lemonej]

i don't know... you tell me what it makes me.

 

if you don't GET the point, fine, just ask but don't give me that nonsense bull$#!& LOVE EM OR LEAVE EM or imply someone is not a fan who doesn't fall into lock step with poor management practices.

OK I'll bite and don't get me wrong you are clearly entitled to disagree with what the Bears management does, I'm not on board with everything they do also but I don't attack someone if they don't agree with me I just try to clarify my point without taking someone to the proverbial "Woodshed".

If you reread my post ther is nothing in it to suggest that you should "LOVE EM OR LEAVE EM". As a matter of fact I would prefer to know some of the thing that you actually like about this year's version of the Bears because the current negatives are all old news.

[Lucky Luciano]

OK I'll bite and don't get me wrong you are clearly entitled to disagree with what the Bears management does, I'm not on board with everything they do also but I don't attack someone if they don't agree with me I just try to clarify my point without taking someone to the proverbial "Woodshed".

 

who have i taken to the woodshed other than jerry angelo?

 

i just see our GM spouting nonsense and it does piss me off. but even that said it is truly legitimate to ask if he is an idiot (at least in a football sense), in my opinion, when i see the same exact problems year after year after year and the same solutions to these REAL problems ignored or made worse by him it seems to me a logical conclusion there is something very, very wrong in our front office. this stuff ain't rocket science.

 

i can't emphasize enough that a healthy franchise is built THROUGH the draft and not in free agency especially in this day and age of the salary cap. a good GM has to be able to see this and draft not just for the immediate but for the future with players that will take time to develop at certain positions like the offensive line and quarterback specifically. the offensive line is like no other position in football because it relates not just to wins/losses but to the health of this key player in your franchise. so starting rookies or questionable talented players is extremely dangerous for the health, not only physical but mental health of your quarterback. thus it directly relates to whether you win superbowls or just make it to the wild card spot or less each year.

 

that leads us to the now... we have paid a great amount of value to get a 'supposed' franchise QB and to risk his permanent health the way this team does is not sensible in any shape or form. this should be the key importance that is on a GM's mind from the moment he made this transaction, yet he seems to believe he has done enough to get our offense in a superbowl run and the protection of this most important player on the entire team seems like an afterthought to angelo.

 

now, you asked about what i like about this season. the only answer i can give you is i like the prospects of our defensive line. i feel fairly comfortable with our linebackers. i think url has a year or three left and briggs plays lights out. i like what we have done with our runningback situation over the offseason. i believe we have made it stronger than last season but again with reservations that depend upon our offensive line to be even average.

 

now having said that it brings me full circle with our problems stemming from the front office. every strength on this team is NOT due to angelo's drafts. it comes from free agency or someone he has not drafted himself (briggs exception) which as good as he seems to have been at times in this area it shouldn't be needed as a crutch for bad drafts.

 

 

If you reread my post ther is nothing in it to suggest that you should "LOVE EM OR LEAVE EM". As a matter of fact I would prefer to know some of the thing that you actually like about this year's version of the Bears because the current negatives are all old news.

 

if that was not your intent then i apologize. it seemed to me that the correlation i referred to was being rebuffed by you to question my team loyalty which i have seen on this board numerous times and if you want a pissing contest just state something like that and i will see red.

 

in truth the point i was trying to make was that people, even fans of any particular team, don't remember the losers of particular seasons or much about them. case in point, how many bear fans if you asked them would even know that we made the playoffs in 1977 and 1979? or why we didn't go further than we did in those respective seasons?

 

what you do remember is the superbowl winners. you remember the steelers winning multiple superbowls in the 70's, you remember the dolphins doing the same, and even the raiders. the 49ers of the 80's or the more recent pats. nobody remembers the losers as much or even at all as a winner. case in point... ask anyone about the 85 superbowl no matter what team he is a fan of. even if he wasn't born at the time he should be able to give you information about them to at least a limited amount. ask the same person to give you information on the 79 bears or any other team that didn't go to or win the superbowl that year.

 

[lemonej]

who have i taken to the woodshed other than jerry angelo?

 

i just see our GM spouting nonsense and it does piss me off. but even that said it is truly legitimate to ask if he is an idiot (at least in a football sense), in my opinion, when i see the same exact problems year after year after year and the same solutions to these REAL problems ignored or made worse by him it seems to me a logical conclusion there is something very, very wrong in our front office. this stuff ain't rocket science.

 

i can't emphasize enough that a healthy franchise is built THROUGH the draft and not in free agency especially in this day and age of the salary cap. a good GM has to be able to see this and draft not just for the immediate but for the future with players that will take time to develop at certain positions like the offensive line and quarterback specifically. the offensive line is like no other position in football because it relates not just to wins/losses but to the health of this key player in your franchise. so starting rookies or questionable talented players is extremely dangerous for the health, not only physical but mental health of your quarterback. thus it directly relates to whether you win superbowls or just make it to the wild card spot or less each year.

 

that leads us to the now... we have paid a great amount of value to get a 'supposed' franchise QB and to risk his permanent health the way this team does is not sensible in any shape or form. this should be the key importance that is on a GM's mind from the moment he made this transaction, yet he seems to believe he has done enough to get our offense in a superbowl run and the protection of this most important player on the entire team seems like an afterthought to angelo.

 

now, you asked about what i like about this season. the only answer i can give you is i like the prospects of our defensive line. i feel fairly comfortable with our linebackers. i think url has a year or three left and briggs plays lights out. i like what we have done with our runningback situation over the offseason. i believe we have made it stronger than last season but again with reservations that depend upon our offensive line to be even average.

 

now having said that it brings me full circle with our problems stemming from the front office. every strength on this team is NOT due to angelo's drafts. it comes from free agency or someone he has not drafted himself (briggs exception) which as good as he seems to have been at times in this area it shouldn't be needed as a crutch for bad drafts.

 

 

 

 

if that was not your intent then i apologize. it seemed to me that the correlation i referred to was being rebuffed by you to question my team loyalty which i have seen on this board numerous times and if you want a pissing contest just state something like that and i will see red.

 

in truth the point i was trying to make was that people, even fans of any particular team, don't remember the losers of particular seasons or much about them. case in point, how many bear fans if you asked them would even know that we made the playoffs in 1977 and 1979? or why we didn't go further than we did in those respective seasons?

 

what you do remember is the superbowl winners. you remember the steelers winning multiple superbowls in the 70's, you remember the dolphins doing the same, and even the raiders. the 49ers of the 80's or the more recent pats. nobody remembers the losers as much or even at all as a winner. case in point... ask anyone about the 85 superbowl no matter what team he is a fan of. even if he wasn't born at the time he should be able to give you information about them to at least a limited amount. ask the same person to give you information on the 79 bears or any other team that didn't go to or win the superbowl that year.

So you understand that this is not about you and me but about us as fans 'cause I'm with you on a lot of things.

Here is a story for both of those playoff years that you and me can relate to. In the 77 year I was a SR in HS and my best friend was a Cowboy fan. When Bob Thomas kicked the FG that put the Bears in the playoffs for the first time in my coherent life, he came over to watch me and my dad celebrate because none his brothers or his dad cared about football. so of course he watched Dallas beat the crap out of us during the playoffs and he tried to make excuses for why the Bears didn't win and me and my dad told him to go enjoy his victory at home.The 79 year I don't understand how our TV survived how much stuff was thrown at it when Brian Bashnaegel was called for illiegal motion on the play when Walter Payton broke off a run that got the Bears deep in Eagles terrritory.

 

So in the years of the 77 and 79 playoffs I remember 2 Bear teams that were one and done. Because this was the first two teams in my life to ever actaually make the post season besides the Bulls I followed their fate to the end.

 

BTW Anyone you want to give you some inf o abot those playoff teams would have to bee alive and then able to remember those times thats why I stated what year I was in HS in 77. So you know in 79 I was 2 years older.