ways to defend Calvin Johnson

[sussnk]

I read this on cnnsi and thought it interesting:

 

I'm wondering why, on goal-line plays, coaches don't occasionally defend big receivers like Johnson with a big receiver from their own team? Doesn't somebody like Dez Bryant have a better chance of beating Johnson on a "jump ball" pass?''

 

 

Roy Williams cant do jack on O....maybe they could use him on D. Because the Lions will have goal line attempts Monday night for sure.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I read this on cnnsi and thought it interesting:

 

I'm wondering why, on goal-line plays, coaches don't occasionally defend big receivers like Johnson with a big receiver from their own team? Doesn't somebody like Dez Bryant have a better chance of beating Johnson on a "jump ball" pass?''

 

 

Roy Williams cant do jack on O....maybe they could use him on D. Because the Lions will have goal line attempts Monday night for sure.

 

Hmmmm.... Interesting for sure. The only problem is that im not sure Williams could even "match up" that well with Johnson. On the other hand we know he can knock down passes pretty well. Heck the Bears have a former DB playing WR so why not?

[jason]

Hmmmm.... Interesting for sure. Heck the Bears have a former DB playing WR so why not?

 

No doubt. We know the Bears are fond of using players out of position. Particularly on the OL where an OG is C, a OT is OG, a C is OG, and a guy who should be working as a Walmart shelf-stocker as a key backup and occasional starter.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Lol I was thinking about putting Julius Peppers in there to defend the jump ball. He's probably the only guy that can out jump Calvin Johnson as he's already 2-3 inches taller and every bit as athletic. But if the Lions saw that they'd probably just audible to a quick slant and Peppers isn't accustomed to defend like a DB. It's a creative thought though haha.

[nfoligno]

Since your going to double team him anyway, why not defend him as you would the gunner on special teams. Put two defenders on the Line of scrimmage to jam him and keep him from even starting his route. Jam him like you would the gunner. Utilize the 5 yard chuck rule and knock him on his arse.

 

I read this on cnnsi and thought it interesting:

 

I'm wondering why, on goal-line plays, coaches don't occasionally defend big receivers like Johnson with a big receiver from their own team? Doesn't somebody like Dez Bryant have a better chance of beating Johnson on a "jump ball" pass?''

 

 

Roy Williams cant do jack on O....maybe they could use him on D. Because the Lions will have goal line attempts Monday night for sure.

 

[madlithuanian]

Agreed...

 

Since your going to double team him anyway, why not defend him as you would the gunner on special teams. Put two defenders on the Line of scrimmage to jam him and keep him from even starting his route. Jam him like you would the gunner. Utilize the 5 yard chuck rule and knock him on his arse.

 

[BearsFan1974]

Sorry didn't read the smut mag or SI as it is called. I was serious when I said I was done with SI after they published the article on Sweetness/

[Guest TerraTor]

Lol I was thinking about putting Julius Peppers in there to defend the jump ball. He's probably the only guy that can out jump Calvin Johnson as he's already 2-3 inches taller and every bit as athletic. But if the Lions saw that they'd probably just audible to a quick slant and Peppers isn't accustomed to defend like a DB. It's a creative thought though haha.

 

Thats exactly what i was thinking while reading this thread.....

[Bears4Ever_34]

Here is our answer. http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/LeBron-...ull-pads-100511

 

Lol!

[Mongo3451]

We could sign Tonya Harding...

[jason]

Since your going to double team him anyway, why not defend him as you would the gunner on special teams. Put two defenders on the Line of scrimmage to jam him and keep him from even starting his route. Jam him like you would the gunner. Utilize the 5 yard chuck rule and knock him on his arse.

 

I'll tell you why...and it's an obvious one. Penalties.

 

First and foremost, once the receiver establishes himself as a receiver and not as a blocker, the contact allowed is minimal. I'm not talking about the 5 chuck that the NFL frequently mentions. I'm talking about illegal use of hands, and the fact that a DB is not allowed to ride a WR for an extended period of time. There is verbiage in the NFL rule book that says something about this scenario.

 

But let's say the DBs don't get called for illegal use of hands. Up next, holding. A DB must allow a WR the attempt to begin his route and become a WR. If they do not, there is almost a certainty that holding will get called.

 

But let's say they don't call that one either. The Lions solve this one pretty easily. They throw it over there anyway. With all the rough-housing and hand fighting going on, there is a guarantee that the Bears' DBs will be contacting Megatron while the ball is in the air. And defensive contact + ball in the air = defensive pass interference.

 

The idea is good, but it's not feasible. If it were, every team in the league would already be doing it. They don't because of the fouls they would certainly get.

[nfoligno]

I don't know. I have seen games where the DB flat knocks the WR on his ass right out of the gate. It's totally legal to do this. I remember when you had Martz in Stl, several teams defended by drilling the WRs at the LOS. Stl adapted by using Holt in motion a lot. Putting a WR in motion is the best way to avoid this as it is so difficult to jam a WR in motion.

 

I agree there is a risk to getting a call, but disagree it's against the rules. The DB has to be careful about how he jams. He can not hold the WR, obviously. But I don't see how it's against the rules.

 

IMHO, the bigger reason why you don't see this is, if the WR breaks the jam, it is a near lock for a score. If you pulled a 2nd DB, likely a safety, to double at the LOS, then you likely have little or no help over the top. If the WR beats the jam, likely nothing between him and the endzone. Thus its a super risky defense, and flies in the face of everything Lovie teaches (keeping everything in front of the DB). However, I still think it's feasable, and yes, even within the rules.

 

I'll tell you why...and it's an obvious one. Penalties.

 

First and foremost, once the receiver establishes himself as a receiver and not as a blocker, the contact allowed is minimal. I'm not talking about the 5 chuck that the NFL frequently mentions. I'm talking about illegal use of hands, and the fact that a DB is not allowed to ride a WR for an extended period of time. There is verbiage in the NFL rule book that says something about this scenario.

 

But let's say the DBs don't get called for illegal use of hands. Up next, holding. A DB must allow a WR the attempt to begin his route and become a WR. If they do not, there is almost a certainty that holding will get called.

 

But let's say they don't call that one either. The Lions solve this one pretty easily. They throw it over there anyway. With all the rough-housing and hand fighting going on, there is a guarantee that the Bears' DBs will be contacting Megatron while the ball is in the air. And defensive contact + ball in the air = defensive pass interference.

 

The idea is good, but it's not feasible. If it were, every team in the league would already be doing it. They don't because of the fouls they would certainly get.

 

[azbearsfan]

Another reason is, no one wants to be the coach who gets their star, highly paid, defensive player hurt while playing out of position try to cover jump balls to CJ.

[jason]

I don't know. I have seen games where the DB flat knocks the WR on his ass right out of the gate. It's totally legal to do this. I remember when you had Martz in Stl, several teams defended by drilling the WRs at the LOS. Stl adapted by using Holt in motion a lot. Putting a WR in motion is the best way to avoid this as it is so difficult to jam a WR in motion.

 

I agree there is a risk to getting a call, but disagree it's against the rules. The DB has to be careful about how he jams. He can not hold the WR, obviously. But I don't see how it's against the rules.

 

IMHO, the bigger reason why you don't see this is, if the WR breaks the jam, it is a near lock for a score. If you pulled a 2nd DB, likely a safety, to double at the LOS, then you likely have little or no help over the top. If the WR beats the jam, likely nothing between him and the endzone. Thus its a super risky defense, and flies in the face of everything Lovie teaches (keeping everything in front of the DB). However, I still think it's feasable, and yes, even within the rules.

 

You misunderstand me. The jam is not against the rules. But there is verbiage in the rule book that prohibits the DB from jamming for not just being beyond the chuck rule, but for the situation in which a WR is no longer conceivably a blocker. When that transition happens, the DBs just can't keep riding the guy. If they do, they get an illegal use of hands call. This is not exactly the rule book's wording, but a dumbed down version of rules for fans that the NFL puts together:

 

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/useofhands

 

"Exception: An eligible receiver is considered to be an obstructing opponent ONLY to a point five yards beyond the line of scrimmage unless the player who receives the snap clearly demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball. Within this five-yard zone, a defensive player may chuck an eligible player in front of him. A defensive player is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard zone until a point when the receiver is even with the defender. The defensive player cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an eligible receiver in a manner that restricts movement as the play develops. Beyond this five-yard limitation, a defender may use his hands or arms ONLY to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver. In such reaction, the defender may not contact a receiver who attempts to take a path to evade him. "

 

Trust me, this 2-on-1 would start to get called really quickly if the WR got to a point where he couldn't release at all off the line. The minute there was even the slightest hint of a WR being even with the DB, and contact continued, flags would fly. The NFL is an offense-driven league, and they will protect that philosophy.

[nfoligno]

Well yea. If the WR is even with the defender, the only way a defender can impeed the progress of the WR is by holding him. that's illegal. The same rule applies on special teams with the gunner in that if the gunner is even with the defenders, the defender can no longer block the gunner without holding. In order for the block to be legal, you must be in front of him.

 

But that is also my point. If you line up two DBs opposite the WR, you are not only created a jam, but in a way you are creating a wall. It is harder for the WR to get past the two defenders, and thus get even with them. With two defenders, it is easier to keep the WR in front of you and not get slipped.

 

Could the two defenders block the WR all day. By rule, yes. But in reality, maybe the refs would eventually throw a flag, even if the blocks were legal. However, I would argue you are near a lock to significantly slow the WR up. If you limit Johnson this way, you give your DL a much better chance of getting to Stafford.

 

 

You misunderstand me. The jam is not against the rules. But there is verbiage in the rule book that prohibits the DB from jamming for not just being beyond the chuck rule, but for the situation in which a WR is no longer conceivably a blocker. When that transition happens, the DBs just can't keep riding the guy. If they do, they get an illegal use of hands call. This is not exactly the rule book's wording, but a dumbed down version of rules for fans that the NFL puts together:

 

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/useofhands

 

"Exception: An eligible receiver is considered to be an obstructing opponent ONLY to a point five yards beyond the line of scrimmage unless the player who receives the snap clearly demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball. Within this five-yard zone, a defensive player may chuck an eligible player in front of him. A defensive player is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard zone until a point when the receiver is even with the defender. The defensive player cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an eligible receiver in a manner that restricts movement as the play develops. Beyond this five-yard limitation, a defender may use his hands or arms ONLY to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver. In such reaction, the defender may not contact a receiver who attempts to take a path to evade him. "

 

Trust me, this 2-on-1 would start to get called really quickly if the WR got to a point where he couldn't release at all off the line. The minute there was even the slightest hint of a WR being even with the DB, and contact continued, flags would fly. The NFL is an offense-driven league, and they will protect that philosophy.

 

[jason]

Well yea. If the WR is even with the defender, the only way a defender can impeed the progress of the WR is by holding him. that's illegal. The same rule applies on special teams with the gunner in that if the gunner is even with the defenders, the defender can no longer block the gunner without holding. In order for the block to be legal, you must be in front of him.

 

But that is also my point. If you line up two DBs opposite the WR, you are not only created a jam, but in a way you are creating a wall. It is harder for the WR to get past the two defenders, and thus get even with them. With two defenders, it is easier to keep the WR in front of you and not get slipped.

 

Could the two defenders block the WR all day. By rule, yes. But in reality, maybe the refs would eventually throw a flag, even if the blocks were legal. However, I would argue you are near a lock to significantly slow the WR up. If you limit Johnson this way, you give your DL a much better chance of getting to Stafford.

 

I agree with the bolded part in theory. But I suspect our suspect safeties would get burned mightily by semi-competent WRs on the other side. Not to mention the fact that the Bears' run defense couldn't possibly survive with the added liability of always being one man short in run support.

 

The idea is great in theory, but I'm sure that it would eventually lead to A] fouls, or B] the D getting toasted

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Here's Matt Bowen's way.

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/bearsvideo#

 

Click the one that says "CTL panel discusses..."

 

Fast forward to about 6:10.

[jason]

Here's Matt Bowen's way.

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/bearsvideo#

 

Click the one that says "CTL panel discusses..."

 

Fast forward to about 6:10.

 

That's very good advice. Looking back towards the inside shoulder and putting your hand in the middle (i.e. playing the pocket) is a good start. The only problem I forsee with that strategy is that "playing the pocket" could get DBs in possible pass interference situations if he happens to pull an arm down/sideways. Otherwise, I like it.

[lemonej]

I hopethat Charles Tillman can shut him down like he did Randy Moss on a couple of occassions.