Brandon Lloyd

[Alaskan Grizzly]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8231...o-bowl-wr-lloyd

 

Is this a player that possesses the "talent" many of you describe? I recall him playing in Chicago before. Dude catches just about everything thrown his way.

[adam]

The guy has only had one good year, and that year seems to be the anomaly looking at his entire career. Now I guess if you put him up against what we throw out there, it would be an upgrade, but at this point is that upgrade worth a 3rd to 5th round pick.

 

Also, we don't have time to throw to the WR's unless they are doing a WR screen.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Get his ass here! Just shows you how desperate I am to get a quality WR in here. Brandon Lloyd is a #2/#1 receiver and would help Cutler out because he can adjust to some of his throws and come down with jump balls. He's like a poor mans Steve Smith with a different style. I would throw a 4th or 5th rounder at them and would go no higher than a 3rd.

[BearsFan1974]

HEY LITH!!!

 

Get them tire kickin' shit kickers on and let's kick some tires!!!!

[jwmann2]

Get his ass here! Just shows you how desperate I am to get a quality WR in here. Brandon Lloyd is a #2/#1 receiver and would help Cutler out because he can adjust to some of his throws and come down with jump balls. He's like a poor mans Steve Smith with a different style. I would throw a 4th or 5th rounder at them and would go no higher than a 3rd.

 

Why would the Bears need an elite receiver when Cutler is getting smacked every single play? The receiver would never get the ball The Bears need an elite offensive lineman. A Michael Oher, a Max Starks, an Evan Mathis. This team prides itself on its defense and has proven time and time again that they can win with an elite special teams and defense.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Why would the Bears need an elite receiver when Cutler is getting smacked every single play? The receiver would never get the ball The Bears need an elite offensive lineman. A Michael Oher, a Max Starks, an Evan Mathis. This team prides itself on its defense and has proven time and time again that they can win with an elite special teams and defense.

Because our receivers kind of suck at catching passes, getting open, and making adjustments on balls? The Bears need an elite WR every bit as much as they need an elite offensive lineman. Brandon Lloyd isn't elite though but he's still worth a 4th or 5th round draft pick if that's what it takes to get him.

[madlithuanian]

It'll never happen. He was already here and it a little fragile. Not to mention he disappears for long stretches. I'd do it, but the team won't.

 

Now, I hear Reggie Wayne could be had. I'd be on the phone for that ASAP.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8231...o-bowl-wr-lloyd

 

Is this a player that possesses the "talent" many of you describe? I recall him playing in Chicago before. Dude catches just about everything thrown his way.

 

[madlithuanian]

I'm on it 74!

 

 

HEY LITH!!!

 

Get them tire kickin' shit kickers on and let's kick some tires!!!!

 

[Daventry]

Because our receivers kind of suck at catching passes, getting open, and making adjustments on balls? The Bears need an elite WR every bit as much as they need an elite offensive lineman. Brandon Lloyd isn't elite though but he's still worth a 4th or 5th round draft pick if that's what it takes to get him.

 

 

Exactly! It would be nice to have a relatively proven WR....we could use one!

[Guest TerraTor]

None of this matters when your Oline has Two 7th RD tackles protecting ur QB.... jerry rice would have 50 catches in this situation if he was lucky

[jason]

Why would the Bears need an elite receiver when Cutler is getting smacked every single play? The receiver would never get the ball The Bears need an elite offensive lineman. A Michael Oher, a Max Starks, an Evan Mathis. This team prides itself on its defense and has proven time and time again that they can win with an elite special teams and defense.

 

I like this new guy.

 

I wouldn't mind a probowl WR, but A] It ain't Brandon Lloyd, and B] I don't think the OL will provide Cutler enough time to properly utilize a probowl WR. Until that's fixed, we'll continue to wish we had a #1 WR, because even #1 WRs brought here will flounder. Remember what MuhMuh said, "Where WRs go to die."

[lemonej]

I like this new guy.

 

I wouldn't mind a probowl WR, but A] It ain't Brandon Lloyd, and B] I don't think the OL will provide Cutler enough time to properly utilize a probowl WR. Until that's fixed, we'll continue to wish we had a #1 WR, because even #1 WRs brought here will flounder. Remember what MuhMuh said, "Where WRs go to die."

I agree Jason and when he was here he spent a considerable amount of time on the trainer's table and he trashed the team when he was let go. We need to focus the game on our no doubt best player, Matt Forte.

[Bears4Ever_34]

None of this matters when your Oline has Two 7th RD tackles protecting ur QB.... jerry rice would have 50 catches in this situation if he was lucky

Oh for God sakes he would not. Jerry Rice is the greatest receiver in the history of football. Great players are great no matter what. If you eliminate the 7 step drop, all of a sudden Cutler instantly has more time to throw because he gets to set his feet quicker. Again, I say.. An Elite WR is EVERY bit as important as an Elite Offensive lineman for this team. Time is only important when your receivers separate, and as you saw last Monday, sometimes that doesn't even make a difference because then they have to catch it, ie. Devin Hester..

[flea]

No thanks

 

Doubt it happens didn't he pretty much slam the Bears on his way out?

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Now, I hear Reggie Wayne could be had. I'd be on the phone for that ASAP.

 

Get 'ER done!!! AFTER you pay Forte

[ParkerBear7]

I like this new guy.

 

I wouldn't mind a probowl WR, but A] It ain't Brandon Lloyd, and B] I don't think the OL will provide Cutler enough time to properly utilize a probowl WR. Until that's fixed, we'll continue to wish we had a #1 WR, because even #1 WRs brought here will flounder. Remember what MuhMuh said, "Where WRs go to die."

 

 

No thanks - B Lloyd has as recentley as last year trashed the Bears during a local sports radio interview. Dude is acrobatic and with good hands but he is not a big physical WR that we need.

 

Now I would be interested in the Broncos Left Tackle! - I would trade a future pick for Clady.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Get 'ER done!!! AFTER you pay Forte

Reggie Wayne would never resign here after what is going on with this offense. I wouldn't waste any picks for him. I might with Mathis however. The guy I think we should start making proposals to is Brandon Marshall. Yeah, he's a mess off the field and sometimes on it.. But could you imagine the big smile on Cutler's face if someone walked in and told him we got his guy back? I'd have to imagine both guys would become instantly rejuvenated and would finally give us that #1 play making WR that we've needed since forever now. I'd gladly offer that Carolina 3rd rounder for him if Miami is ready to clean house, since there season is going nowhere. Would probably even offer both 3rd rounders. Imagine doing that and then being able to draft Floyd, Blackmon, or Jeffery in the 1st round next year and the best available LT, C in the 2nd with a chance to sign Carl Nicks again as a FA? That would instantly change the dynamic of this team.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Reggie Wayne would never resign here after what is going on with this offense. I wouldn't waste any picks for him. I might with Mathis however. The guy I think we should start making proposals to is Brandon Marshall. Yeah, he's a mess off the field and sometimes on it.. But could you imagine the big smile on Cutler's face if someone walked in and told him we got his guy back? I'd have to imagine both guys would become instantly rejuvenated and would finally give us that #1 play making WR that we've needed since forever now. I'd gladly offer that Carolina 3rd rounder for him if Miami is ready to clean house, since there season is going nowhere. Would probably even offer both 3rd rounders. Imagine doing that and then being able to draft Floyd, Blackmon, or Jeffery in the 1st round next year and the best available LT, C in the 2nd with a chance to sign Carl Nicks again as a FA? That would instantly change the dynamic of this team.

 

I think it safe to assume that Cutler would be pleased to have ANY receiver he likes playing on the team. There really is no secret he has taken a liking to Bennett and in the interim, Sanzenbacher. Previously he liked Aromashadu and unfortunately that never worked out. You're right that he would be beside himself with Marshall coming in but probably equally pleased if someone like Wayne were to sign. And I wouldnt negate that Wayne wouldn't at least consider Chicago. Especially with all the uncertainty in Indy.

 

Ultimately though, I would hedge a bet that at this point Jay would like the ability to be able to throw without duress. That means someone that can block for him.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Wayne is getting up there in age and Lloyd is always decent but no team ever wants him. There has to be a reason for that.

 

And people, stop saying they should ignore a #1 WR if they don't have any OL. That's ridiculous. No team is going to be willing to deal an elite OT or OG right now.

 

Why would the Bears need an elite receiver when Cutler is getting smacked every single play? The receiver would never get the ball The Bears need an elite offensive lineman. A Michael Oher, a Max Starks, an Evan Mathis. This team prides itself on its defense and has proven time and time again that they can win with an elite special teams and defense.

Evan Mathis? It seems like he's been terrific given Philly's offensive struggles. And Starks is not elite.

[bradjock]

Lloyd would immediately be our best WR. IMO this is possible if we cut Roy Williams. How much time do we give him to prove he doesn't suck?

 

I don't see us adding a 7th WR, and I don't see us cutting or trading anyone else. We have:

Dane Sanzenbacher--He's our best WR right now which is why we make this move

Johnny Knox--Our most talented WR

Hester--Bad WR, HOF return man

Earl Bennett--Cutler's go-to guy

Sam Hurd--he's primarily here for ST's. The fact he's playing over Roy Williams at WR is not good.

 

Our WR group is arguably the worst in the league. Cut our losses and trade for Lloyd. He might be just as bad with us as he was before, but what's to lose?

 

As for the "we need an o-lineman" argument, if one was available, I'd be saying the same thing. Our WR's are bad, our o-line is bad. We must upgrade both.

[jason]

Oh for God sakes he would not. Jerry Rice is the greatest receiver in the history of football. Great players are great no matter what. If you eliminate the 7 step drop, all of a sudden Cutler instantly has more time to throw because he gets to set his feet quicker. Again, I say.. An Elite WR is EVERY bit as important as an Elite Offensive lineman for this team. Time is only important when your receivers separate, and as you saw last Monday, sometimes that doesn't even make a difference because then they have to catch it, ie. Devin Hester..

 

He'd most certainly do better than 50 catches, but he sure as hell wouldn't have turned out to be the Jerry Rice we know. He would have been a great player who never amounted to what he should have.

 

As for an elite WR being as important as an elite OL, I simply disagree. No WR put on this Bears team will turn into an all-star as long as the OL is incapable of protecting for more than 2 seconds on a consistent basis. On the other hand, put together an elite OL and the WRs on this team will have the time to get open. This two may work together, but the WR success depends on the OL more than the other way around.

[Bears4Ever_34]

He'd most certainly do better than 50 catches, but he sure as hell wouldn't have turned out to be the Jerry Rice we know. He would have been a great player who never amounted to what he should have.

 

I have a hard time believing the greatest WR to play the game would "Never amount to what he should have" if he played with this team. Besides, you're assuming he plays his entire career with this exact same cast of offensive lineman. People have become blinded by how poorly our offensive line has played that they don't realize that our receivers are damn near equally as bad. When Jay's leader in targets is Dane Sanzenbacher, you know you have a bad team. For all the Mike Martz talk about Roy Williams catching 70-80 passes.. Well he's about 72 short.

As for an elite WR being as important as an elite OL, I simply disagree. No WR put on this Bears team will turn into an all-star as long as the OL is incapable of protecting for more than 2 seconds on a consistent basis. On the other hand, put together an elite OL and the WRs on this team will have the time to get open. This two may work together, but the WR success depends on the OL more than the other way around.

 

Any elite receiver on this team, makes our offense a tougher cover. Do you know how easy it is to scout against this Bears offense? It's not a secret that Matt Forte is going to get the ball and teams can just hone in on stopping him because Devin Hester nor Johnny Knox pose any major threats.

 

An elite offensive lineman can only be responsible for one man. Unfortunately, there are 4 other spots where guys can take advantage of. And as I've mentioned a couple hundred times before, extra time is only helpful when your receivers get open. How many coverage sacks have we seen already in the past two seasons from Cutler because nobody is open? That's why quality WR's make an offense. Look at what Atlanta went out and did this past year to get more explosive. They got Julio Jones to pair up with Roddy White who was already an All Pro receiver. There offensive line is almost just as bad as ours but Ryan has the luxury of his two security blankets to throw two (Well three if you count Tony Gonzalez). It's all about making your offense unpredictable. With no talented WR's on this team, it makes it awful easy to plan against this Bears offense. If you placed Brandon Marshall on this team right now, all of a sudden that's one other guy teams have to scheme for. And that alone opens up more opportunities for other guys to get open.

 

Also, remember, when Jon Kitna was getting blasted on a weekly basis, the Mike Martz coached offense in Detroit was still fairly successful because he had a rookie Calvin Johnson and a younger more motivated Roy Williams.

[jason]

I have a hard time believing the greatest WR to play the game would "Never amount to what he should have" if he played with this team. Besides, you're assuming he plays his entire career with this exact same cast of offensive lineman. People have become blinded by how poorly our offensive line has played that they don't realize that our receivers are damn near equally as bad. When Jay's leader in targets is Dane Sanzenbacher, you know you have a bad team. For all the Mike Martz talk about Roy Williams catching 70-80 passes.. Well he's about 72 short.

 

 

Any elite receiver on this team, makes our offense a tougher cover. Do you know how easy it is to scout against this Bears offense? It's not a secret that Matt Forte is going to get the ball and teams can just hone in on stopping him because Devin Hester nor Johnny Knox pose any major threats.

 

An elite offensive lineman can only be responsible for one man. Unfortunately, there are 4 other spots where guys can take advantage of. And as I've mentioned a couple hundred times before, extra time is only helpful when your receivers get open. How many coverage sacks have we seen already in the past two seasons from Cutler because nobody is open? That's why quality WR's make an offense. Look at what Atlanta went out and did this past year to get more explosive. They got Julio Jones to pair up with Roddy White who was already an All Pro receiver. There offensive line is almost just as bad as ours but Ryan has the luxury of his two security blankets to throw two (Well three if you count Tony Gonzalez). It's all about making your offense unpredictable. With no talented WR's on this team, it makes it awful easy to plan against this Bears offense. If you placed Brandon Marshall on this team right now, all of a sudden that's one other guy teams have to scheme for. And that alone opens up more opportunities for other guys to get open.

 

Also, remember, when Jon Kitna was getting blasted on a weekly basis, the Mike Martz coached offense in Detroit was still fairly successful because he had a rookie Calvin Johnson and a younger more motivated Roy Williams.

 

 

Simply agree to disagree on both.

 

Jerry Rice wouldn't have been able to run the multitude of routes he was able to run with the Niners because our QB can't drop back to 5 or 7 step drops. Therefore the offense is limited to shorter dropbacks and inevitably shorter passes, most of which Rice would have undoubtedly hauled in.

 

As for OL compared to WR and your bad analogy, I think you've conveniently overlooked that Shaun McFreakingDonald led that team in receptions and Mike Furrey had more than Calvin Johnson. The fact these two nobodies contributed so much also takes away from the "Rice would have been just as good and put up just as many stats" line of thought. Also, you COMPLETELY ignored the following:

 

Jeff Backus - OT - 1st Rdr, stud

Damien Woody - OG/OT - 1st Rdr, stud

Dominic Raiola - C - 2nd Rdr, stud

And a few assorted, semi-talented guys like Edwin Mulitalo, George Foster, and Manuel Ramirez.

 

Kitna succeeded because he got ample time to succeed. He wouldn't have gone for over 4000 yards otherwise. Look at his career and show me where else he's had anywhere near that impact. There is no denying the Martz offense gets the QB sacked a lot, but you have to weigh that against the positives. I'd say his stats for those two years speak to this (i.e. lots of yards, best percentage of his career, lots of sacks).

[Bears4Ever_34]

Simply agree to disagree on both.

Jerry Rice wouldn't have been able to run the multitude of routes he was able to run with the Niners because our QB can't drop back to 5 or 7 step drops. Therefore the offense is limited to shorter dropbacks and inevitably shorter passes, most of which Rice would have undoubtedly hauled in.

 

I think what your saying is a moot point because we all know Mike Martz isn't going to be here after this year anyways and the Bears can go back to running a more conventional style of offense. Yes, the 7 step drops don't work here but Jerry Rice was a pretty good short yardage, middle yardage, any yardage kind of a receiver. That guy was pretty good wherever you threw him the ball.

 

As for OL compared to WR and your bad analogy, I think you've conveniently overlooked that Shaun McFreakingDonald led that team in receptions and Mike Furrey had more than Calvin Johnson. The fact these two nobodies contributed so much also takes away from the "Rice would have been just as good and put up just as many stats" line of thought.

 

Wrong. Mike Furrey and Mcdonald were the beneficiaries of Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson being on the field and the fact that the only thing Detroit ever did was throw the ball, because their running game was so pathetic (More passes = more receptions). 2007 was also the year Roy Williams missed 4 games because of injuries. It's not uncommon for slot receivers to lead the team in receptions, but to use that as your argument is absolutely ridiculous.

also takes away from the "Rice would have been just as good and put up just as many stats" line of thought.

 

Um, what? Nobody ever said anything about posting the same stats. The way you and the other guy were talking sounded like Jerry Rice would have suddenly transformed into the next David Terrell. And I'm telling you he would still be GREAT.

 

Also, you COMPLETELY ignored the following:

 

Jeff Backus - OT - 1st Rdr, stud

Damien Woody - OG/OT - 1st Rdr, stud

Dominic Raiola - C - 2nd Rdr, stud

And a few assorted, semi-talented guys like Edwin Mulitalo, George Foster, and Manuel Ramirez.

 

Lol. Just because some guy was drafted in the 1st round doesn't mean he was a stud on the Lions. If you didn't noticed, the Lions actually gave up more sacks in 2006 (63) than the Bears did last season. And the season after that, they gave up 51. So no, I wouldn't say I ignored anything.

 

Kitna succeeded because he got ample time to succeed. He wouldn't have gone for over 4000 yards otherwise. Look at his career and show me where else he's had anywhere near that impact. There is no denying the Martz offense gets the QB sacked a lot, but you have to weigh that against the positives. I'd say his stats for those two years speak to this (i.e. lots of yards, best percentage of his career, lots of sacks).

If by time, you mean no time-- then I would agree. It's just that, when on rare occasions the line did protect him, he was able to make plays because his receivers knew how to get open. Ours don't, and can't because they are not any good. I don't know how I can paint the picture any more clearly.

[azbearsfan]

I think what your saying is a moot point because we all know Mike Martz isn't going to be here after this year anyways and the Bears can go back to running a more conventional style of offense. Yes, the 7 step drops don't work here but Jerry Rice was a pretty good short yardage, middle yardage, any yardage kind of a receiver. That guy was pretty good wherever you threw him the ball.

 

 

 

Wrong. Mike Furrey and Mcdonald were the beneficiaries of Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson being on the field and the fact that the only thing Detroit ever did was throw the ball, because their running game was so pathetic (More passes = more receptions). 2007 was also the year Roy Williams missed 4 games because of injuries. It's not uncommon for slot receivers to lead the team in receptions, but to use that as your argument is absolutely ridiculous.

 

 

Um, what? Nobody ever said anything about posting the same stats. The way you and the other guy were talking sounded like Jerry Rice would have suddenly transformed into the next David Terrell. And I'm telling you he would still be GREAT.

 

 

 

Lol. Just because some guy was drafted in the 1st round doesn't mean he was a stud on the Lions. If you didn't noticed, the Lions actually gave up more sacks in 2006 (63) than the Bears did last season. And the season after that, they gave up 51. So no, I wouldn't say I ignored anything.

 

 

If buy time, you mean no time-- then I would agree. It's just that, when on rare occasions the line did protect him, he was able to make plays because his receivers knew how to get open. Ours don't, and can't because they are not any good. I don't know how I can paint the picture any more clearly.

 

 

 

Here is a write up by a Lions fan that I thought could be relevant here:

 

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2011/10/5...artz-experience