Postgame Thoughts

[rockren]

3. Yeah, Webb did not impress me. I think the staff needs to re-think hom, as minimum for next season.

 

There seem to be a few Webb supporters on this board and I get why.

 

He's a monster who can block out the Sun. In both games against the Packers last season where he started at RT....he blocked Matthews as well as I've seen anyone block him. This has been echoed by several close friends of mine who are Packer fans. He was great against Jared Allen as well.

 

However, there is one deficiency that cannot be remedied.....he's slow.

 

His feet are OK, but a quick inside move and he's toast. That Claiborne sack was a classic example where Webb KNEW he had outside help and Claiborne beat him to the inside (badly) anyway.

 

That coaching staff can claim they can coach him up all they want, however- they can't fix how slow he is. I don't mind Webb being on the roster as he was a great find in the 7th Round who can be a backup swing Tackle....but not our cornerstone on the left side. No way.

[jason]

My previous post shows there was a semblance of balance in the second half. Furthermore, the run wasn't nearly as effective in the second half as it was in the first. All this criticism of "passing while up 10 points" is insanity. As if the other teams aren't smart enough to know the Bears want to grind out the clock and purposely changed their defensive game plan to stop the freaking run. Look at the stats if you don't believe it. Oh, and by the way, if you hadn't noticed, the Bears' D isn't exactly guaranteed to hold that kind of lead and give up minimal points.

 

I agree that the run calls themselves were semi-unoriginal, and there should have been more diversity (i.e. sweeps, counters, pitchouts), but to act as if any pass plays were bad calls is ridiculous. This notion that Martz has been out-thinking himself, trying to be too smart, or trying to live up to his genius reputation is equally ridiculous. You guys KNOW he wants to install a 80/20 pass blend, but he made fundamental changes against his own wishes which prove he's not trying to be/do any of the above. Whether the changes are dictated by Lovie is anyone's guess. If they are, then I fully believe Martz pouts in the mirror at night because he doesn't want to run more than he passes.

 

It just seems that having a grudge against Martz is the flavor of the month, regardless of what he does.

-Nothing but run plays? Too predictable!

-Run majority/Pass minority? You have to pass the ball more for the run to be effective!

-Pass majority/Run minority? You have to run the ball more for the pass to be effective!

-Nothing but pass plays? That ain't Bear football!

 

I know the perfect scenario for most Bear posters on this board is probably a 60/40 or 70/30 split that favors the run, but as shown by my previous post, the run game wasn't working the same as it was in the first half. This could be due to a number of reasons (e.g. worse OL blocking, predictable run calls, less advantageous run calls, Defense loading up to stop the run). So what do you do when you're the OC of a team that is having a hard time running the ball? You pass.

[madlithuanian]

Great points...

 

I too am OK with keeping him as depth. I'm just not sure he's a conerstone as you say.

 

There seem to be a few Webb supporters on this board and I get why.

 

He's a monster who can block out the Sun. In both games against the Packers last season where he started at RT....he blocked Matthews as well as I've seen anyone block him. This has been echoed by several close friends of mine who are Packer fans. He was great against Jared Allen as well.

 

However, there is one deficiency that cannot be remedied.....he's slow.

 

His feet are OK, but a quick inside move and he's toast. That Claiborne sack was a classic example where Webb KNEW he had outside help and Claiborne beat him to the inside (badly) anyway.

 

That coaching staff can claim they can coach him up all they want, however- they can't fix how slow he is. I don't mind Webb being on the roster as he was a great find in the 7th Round who can be a backup swing Tackle....but not our cornerstone on the left side. No way.

 

[madlithuanian]

Green Bay's been on my nerves for over 4 decades...

 

Looking at the standings, I do believe if the playoffs started next weekend, Detroit and the Bears would be the two wildcard teams. At this moment, our competition for the second wildcard slot is TB and Atlanta (who are also 4-3)...we beat them both heads up. Take that for what it's worth.

http://www.nfl.com/standings

 

As an aside, Green Bay is getting on my nerves...barely beating a team we just destroyed to nevertheless move on to a 7-0 record.

 

[madlithuanian]

You've spent a great deal of time defending Martz here. I think doth protest too much...

 

I fully undertand your points, but I think you far too easily dismiss the arguments against.

 

1. Martz is a passaholic. So, for anyone to run to the response that he's passing too much is probably correct with or without statistical evidence.

 

2. Passing in the 2nd half as they did didn't pass the smell test. Clock needed to be run, the running game was working. The types of runs they used in the 2nd half were horrible. Where was Clutts? In the first half he was all over the place...blocking, catching passes, etc. Then, all of a sudden it's single back. Cutler's getting pressured, Forte is told to run inside w/o a lead blocker. Results are what would be expected.

 

Did Cutler F up? Yup. Did Tampa's D pick it up. Yup. But the playcalls simply hindered what we are good at, instead of helping.

 

Mark Twain said there are lies, damn lies and statistics. This is a pure case of that I think.

 

My previous post shows there was a semblance of balance in the second half. Furthermore, the run wasn't nearly as effective in the second half as it was in the first. All this criticism of "passing while up 10 points" is insanity. As if the other teams aren't smart enough to know the Bears want to grind out the clock and purposely changed their defensive game plan to stop the freaking run. Look at the stats if you don't believe it. Oh, and by the way, if you hadn't noticed, the Bears' D isn't exactly guaranteed to hold that kind of lead and give up minimal points.

 

I agree that the run calls themselves were semi-unoriginal, and there should have been more diversity (i.e. sweeps, counters, pitchouts), but to act as if any pass plays were bad calls is ridiculous. This notion that Martz has been out-thinking himself, trying to be too smart, or trying to live up to his genius reputation is equally ridiculous. You guys KNOW he wants to install a 80/20 pass blend, but he made fundamental changes against his own wishes which prove he's not trying to be/do any of the above. Whether the changes are dictated by Lovie is anyone's guess. If they are, then I fully believe Martz pouts in the mirror at night because he doesn't want to run more than he passes.

 

It just seems that having a grudge against Martz is the flavor of the month, regardless of what he does.

-Nothing but run plays? Too predictable!

-Run majority/Pass minority? You have to pass the ball more for the run to be effective!

-Pass majority/Run minority? You have to run the ball more for the pass to be effective!

-Nothing but pass plays? That ain't Bear football!

 

I know the perfect scenario for most Bear posters on this board is probably a 60/40 or 70/30 split that favors the run, but as shown by my previous post, the run game wasn't working the same as it was in the first half. This could be due to a number of reasons (e.g. worse OL blocking, predictable run calls, less advantageous run calls, Defense loading up to stop the run). So what do you do when you're the OC of a team that is having a hard time running the ball? You pass.

 

[jason]

You've spent a great deal of time defending Martz here. I think doth protest too much...

 

I fully undertand your points, but I think you far too easily dismiss the arguments against.

 

1. Martz is a passaholic. So, for anyone to run to the response that he's passing too much is probably correct with or without statistical evidence.

 

2. Passing in the 2nd half as they did didn't pass the smell test. Clock needed to be run, the running game was working. The types of runs they used in the 2nd half were horrible. Where was Clutts? In the first half he was all over the place...blocking, catching passes, etc. Then, all of a sudden it's single back. Cutler's getting pressured, Forte is told to run inside w/o a lead blocker. Results are what would be expected.

 

Did Cutler F up? Yup. Did Tampa's D pick it up. Yup. But the playcalls simply hindered what we are good at, instead of helping.

 

Mark Twain said there are lies, damn lies and statistics. This is a pure case of that I think.

 

You know, the funny thing is: I don't care who the OC is as long as he produces points for the Bears in bunches. It's just my personal philosophy that guys who do that are typically more pass oriented and explosive, rather than the "hold on to the lead" types. And, as my next point will prove, the Mark Twain quote doesn't apply.

 

1. Martz has a HISTORY of being a passaholic, but the game in question can't be used as statistical evidence towards that history. His balance was PERFECT last game, 32 each (I'm discounting the one Cutler run because I can't remember if it was simply a sack on a busted OL assignment). Hard to argue with numbers of that game. Which is what we're talking about. But if you were to bring up the season's stats, the Bears have a 42%[R]/58%[P] balance, which is not too far away from 50% each. Furthermore, it's right in the middle of the pack (tied for 20th, 1% behind being tied for 15th, 7 play differential) in regards to the NFL run/pass distribution. Only 4 teams (Jags, Niners, Chiefs, Texans) have run more than they have passed. Hell, if only 20 of those plays were runs instead of passes, the Bears would be tied for 9th highest run-heavy offense in the NFL. So, this whole notion of a mad bomber as Bears' OC this season is absolutely, unequivocally false.

 

2. Having a problem with which plays are called is a completely different issue. I don't think anyone would say they liked the runs up the middle in the second half of the TB game. But even a football rookie has to acknowledge that play calling needs to be diverse enough so that the good plays are more effective (i.e. need a few inside runs). I would have prefered one or two inside, 5 or 6 outside.

[madlithuanian]

I do generally agree. But, my understanding of Martz and his past, including interviews and articles from current and former players, etc that his style is out for himself. To put up gaudy passing numbers, damn the torpedoes. He obviously did just that with the Rams, attempted, and did some with the Lions, and attempted and failed with the Niners. He's also pretty much attemtped and somewhat failed with the Bears. He tried, but then was reigned in most of last year. Only to see his plan in full mode in the last game of the season that could have KO'ed GB, and then in the NFC Championship game again. I believe it is fair to say that Martz wants to pass and pass his way. If given the chance, he will do just that. I believe that's exactly what happened Sunday. Yes he threw in runs. (And I think we both agree that the runs he chose were poor...) At the end the balance appeared there. But balance isn't needed. A win is. And by throwing in more passes than runs compared to the first half, Martz seemed to position the Bears into a role of quick 3 and outs, putting his QB in jeopardy of hits, and having the possibility of turnovers occur. Had he opted for more runs, like done with Carolina...the clock could have been used as one more weapon agasint Tampa.

 

I get what your saying. But, as much as we like the term balance, the objective should be..."What is working?" Running to the edges with a fullback in place was working. More of that should have been utilized in the second half. While, most the time, balance is the objective...but if you are gashing runs, keep running. If you are hitting open WR's with no pressure on your QB, do that. It just so happens that this game called for more running than passing. And Martz played it even.

 

Thankfully it wasn't more passing! Or we'd probably be 3-4...

 

 

 

 

You know, the funny thing is: I don't care who the OC is as long as he produces points for the Bears in bunches. It's just my personal philosophy that guys who do that are typically more pass oriented and explosive, rather than the "hold on to the lead" types. And, as my next point will prove, the Mark Twain quote doesn't apply.

 

1. Martz has a HISTORY of being a passaholic, but the game in question can't be used as statistical evidence towards that history. His balance was PERFECT last game, 32 each (I'm discounting the one Cutler run because I can't remember if it was simply a sack on a busted OL assignment). Hard to argue with numbers of that game. Which is what we're talking about. But if you were to bring up the season's stats, the Bears have a 42%[R]/58%[P] balance, which is not too far away from 50% each. Furthermore, it's right in the middle of the pack (tied for 20th, 1% behind being tied for 15th, 7 play differential) in regards to the NFL run/pass distribution. Only 4 teams (Jags, Niners, Chiefs, Texans) have run more than they have passed. Hell, if only 20 of those plays were runs instead of passes, the Bears would be tied for 9th highest run-heavy offense in the NFL. So, this whole notion of a mad bomber as Bears' OC this season is absolutely, unequivocally false.

 

2. Having a problem with which plays are called is a completely different issue. I don't think anyone would say they liked the runs up the middle in the second half of the TB game. But even a football rookie has to acknowledge that play calling needs to be diverse enough so that the good plays are more effective (i.e. need a few inside runs). I would have prefered one or two inside, 5 or 6 outside.

 

[lemonej]

I do generally agree. But, my understanding of Martz and his past, including interviews and articles from current and former players, etc that his style is out for himself. To put up gaudy passing numbers, damn the torpedoes. He obviously did just that with the Rams, attempted, and did some with the Lions, and attempted and failed with the Niners. He's also pretty much attemtped and somewhat failed with the Bears. He tried, but then was reigned in most of last year. Only to see his plan in full mode in the last game of the season that could have KO'ed GB, and then in the NFC Championship game again. I believe it is fair to say that Martz wants to pass and pass his way. If given the chance, he will do just that. I believe that's exactly what happened Sunday. Yes he threw in runs. (And I think we both agree that the runs he chose were poor...) At the end the balance appeared there. But balance isn't needed. A win is. And by throwing in more passes than runs compared to the first half, Martz seemed to position the Bears into a role of quick 3 and outs, putting his QB in jeopardy of hits, and having the possibility of turnovers occur. Had he opted for more runs, like done with Carolina...the clock could have been used as one more weapon agasint Tampa.

 

I get what your saying. But, as much as we like the term balance, the objective should be..."What is working?" Running to the edges with a fullback in place was working. More of that should have been utilized in the second half. While, most the time, balance is the objective...but if you are gashing runs, keep running. If you are hitting open WR's with no pressure on your QB, do that. It just so happens that this game called for more running than passing. And Martz played it even.

 

Thankfully it wasn't more passing! Or we'd probably be 3-4...

I agree and Tampa started to run blitz in the 2nd half and the play when Barber tackled Cutler in the 4th qtr was obviously a run blitz based on the formation and with no audibles or blitz recognition the play was blown up because Barber almost took the snap from center.The Bucs also started to load up the box but if the Bears continued to run to one of the edges with a lead blocker instead of calling some of the empty backfield plays when it is obvious that this OL could use some help. I really don't care if they passed in the 2nd half but some of the pass plays that Cutler threw picks on the WR was surrounded by defenders (Thats on Cutler) and it seemed that he was the only WR in the route from what the replay showed.

 

BTW is it me or does it seem that some of the Bears WRs don't understand how to help run clock by staying in bounds late in games?

[madlithuanian]

I noticed the same...

 

BTW is it me or does it seem that some of the Bears WRs don't understand how to help run clock by staying in bounds late in games?

 

[jason]

I do generally agree. But, my understanding of Martz and his past, including interviews and articles from current and former players, etc that his style is out for himself. To put up gaudy passing numbers, damn the torpedoes. He obviously did just that with the Rams, attempted, and did some with the Lions, and attempted and failed with the Niners. He's also pretty much attemtped and somewhat failed with the Bears. He tried, but then was reigned in most of last year. Only to see his plan in full mode in the last game of the season that could have KO'ed GB, and then in the NFC Championship game again. I believe it is fair to say that Martz wants to pass and pass his way. If given the chance, he will do just that. I believe that's exactly what happened Sunday. Yes he threw in runs. (And I think we both agree that the runs he chose were poor...) At the end the balance appeared there. But balance isn't needed. A win is. And by throwing in more passes than runs compared to the first half, Martz seemed to position the Bears into a role of quick 3 and outs, putting his QB in jeopardy of hits, and having the possibility of turnovers occur. Had he opted for more runs, like done with Carolina...the clock could have been used as one more weapon agasint Tampa.

 

I get what your saying. But, as much as we like the term balance, the objective should be..."What is working?" Running to the edges with a fullback in place was working. More of that should have been utilized in the second half. While, most the time, balance is the objective...but if you are gashing runs, keep running. If you are hitting open WR's with no pressure on your QB, do that. It just so happens that this game called for more running than passing. And Martz played it even.

 

Thankfully it wasn't more passing! Or we'd probably be 3-4...

 

The bolded part is my entire point. People have such a hard on for Martz that if he doesn't have 10 more runs than passes he's all the sudden "pass happy." Use what's working; that's obvious. But when all but four teams in the NFL have pass > run, then it's not just Martz and the Bears offense like some would have people believe.

 

And, yes, I didn't like the runs up the middle. But keep in mind that multiple-stuff late in the game was off tackle 2 or 3 times in a row.

[balta1701-A]

The bolded part is my entire point. People have such a hard on for Martz that if he doesn't have 10 more runs than passes he's all the sudden "pass happy." Use what's working; that's obvious. But when all but four teams in the NFL have pass > run, then it's not just Martz and the Bears offense like some would have people believe.

 

And, yes, I didn't like the runs up the middle. But keep in mind that multiple-stuff late in the game was off tackle 2 or 3 times in a row.

The biggest Martz problem is games like, when was it, Green Bay? Where he winds up with a ridiculous number of passes because the run gets stuffed early, then everyone pays extra attention to that number for 3-4 weeks until it evens out.

 

 

[lemonej]

The biggest Martz problem is games like, when was it, Green Bay? Where he winds up with a ridiculous number of passes because the run gets stuffed early, then everyone pays extra attention to that number for 3-4 weeks until it evens out.

We have seen in games where he has adjusted in the past season at the half. Dallas when Cutler was getting hit repeatedly, Carolina when Cutler was looking for birdies and he started to feature Forte and against the Jets when he took shots down the field when it looked as though the Jets were lining up one on one with the Bears WRs and that allowed them to get Forte isolated on routes in the passing game.What most of us are complaining about Martz IMO is that when he can clearly see that some plays are at risk versus a defense he stubbornly continues to call them. Like GB ,Det and NO. Like Jason is saying take what is working its not about balance if the run is being stuffed take what the defense is giving you but I will add when you are up late try to slow the game down for the other team and run some clock and empty backfield sets with Forte split out wide doesn't make sense IMO. I remember so well in the playoff game against Seattle how the one position that Martz supposedly ignores was utilized and actually jump started the game for the Bears. He is a very smart man that tends to get stubborn. This is a different kind of NFL now but when the game needs to be won you need to be able to run the ball and the defense needs to be able to stop the other team.

[selection7]

I remember that game where we did next to nothing the first half with a balanced offense, then the two minute drive before the half came and finally there was a spark due to aggressive passing. When this happened Martz thought 4 things:

1) aha, now I've got an excuse to pass aggressively...which is what I wanted to do anyway

2) I can keep running it, but they'll just keep stuffing it. The run just isn't there.

3) We're losing so we need the clock-stoppage of a passing game

4) Jay was brought to Chicago to make bigtime passes. Those are the plays I'm going to call.

 

I agree with those that say when the run isn't working, perfect playcalling balance is too much, but the problem is, while there was truth to all 4 of those points I listed above, when you completely neglect the run, the defense isn't kept honest. They "pin their ears back" and attack the QB and ignore play actions. Every armchair coach knows that.

 

So does Martz, in a sense I'm sure, but Martz is stubborn. In other words, he begrudgingly gets the concept, but he doesn't really buy into it. Sometimes you have to suck it up and take 2 yards per run...just so your passing game doesn't turn into pick and sack party for the opposing D.

 

I think we have a sometimes capable OL when they aren't specifically put into a position to fail. Better than last year at least, though there's still alot to prove.