Bears4Ever_34 Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Maybe I didn't pay much attention to it before because I never saw him play, but I just took a look at his numbers and was shaking my head as to how they equate him into Hall of Fame status. Somebody help me out here. He plays 7 seasons, only rushes for over 1000 yards twice, he wasn't that effective in the passing game, and only had 7 150+ yard games in his career. Matt Forte has already doubled that. I know they only played 14 games during that era and he did some great things on special teams but to me, Sayers numbers are not even close to Hall of Fame worthy. Is Forte going to eclipse Sayers as the 2nd best Bears running back before his career is over? That might actually even be debatable as to whether he was even the 2nd best because Thomas Jones out performed him during his short tenure with the Bears.. http://www.nfl.com/player/galesayers/2524970/careerstats http://www.nfl.com/player/mattforte/234/profile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Forget the stats and watch him play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Yup. I'm certain lemonej will have much more to add... My dad still says he's the best RB the Bears ever had. Forget the stats and watch him play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Yup. I'm certain lemonej will have much more to add... My dad still says he's the best RB the Bears ever had. Your dad is a wise man. If you watched Sayers play, you would be agreeing. Unfortunately, Sayers seems to step in it now that he's a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 From what I've seen, I can't argue! I grew up on Payton, so my heart lies there. His recent public statements leave a bit to be desired. But like most football players...they are best letting their actions speak for themselves. Your dad is a wise man. If you watched Sayers play, you would be agreeing. Unfortunately, Sayers seems to step in it now that he's a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted November 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 I don't know.. I get the fact that he was a flashy player and a spectacular athlete for his time but IMO his production on the field still doesn't warrant him being in the Hall of Fame. I mean, if I just showed you these stats without naming who the player was, I don't think you'd get anyone that would say "Those are Hall of Fame numbers." If Forte keeps performing like he has been for another season and a half, he will have crushed most of Sayers numbers and I don't think anyone here would say Forte is a future HOF'er. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 I think your question is your answer. He got in with such a limited resume because he was so damn good. Those teams he played on were some of the worst ever for the Bears. He and Butkus were cursed to play with garbage around them. Your thinking that his production doesn't warrant inclusion appears to be biased in longevity. Stats don't tell the whole story. This guy was voted in by his peers. Not off a computer program. Both types of players do make it in. For instance, I never thought highly of Emmitt Smith. But because of his longevity, he's in. Your focus on numbers alone is not the sole reason for inclusion. Please read... I don't know.. I get the fact that he was a flashy player and a spectacular athlete for his time but IMO his production on the field still doesn't warrant him being in the Hall of Fame. I mean, if I just showed you these stats without naming who the player was, I don't think you'd get anyone that would say "Those are Hall of Fame numbers." If Forte keeps performing like he has been for another season and a half, he will have crushed most of Sayers numbers and I don't think anyone here would say Forte is a future HOF'er. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 I don't know.. I get the fact that he was a flashy player and a spectacular athlete for his time but IMO his production on the field still doesn't warrant him being in the Hall of Fame. I mean, if I just showed you these stats without naming who the player was, I don't think you'd get anyone that would say "Those are Hall of Fame numbers." If Forte keeps performing like he has been for another season and a half, he will have crushed most of Sayers numbers and I don't think anyone here would say Forte is a future HOF'er. Dude - it's unrealistic to compare not only the stats, but the process of getting into the Hall of Fame between 40 years ago and today. For instance, a calculator that could only add, subtract, multiply and divide cost over $100 back in the early 70s. I remember my Dad's first calculator he got in 1972 was on sale for $40 and to add numbers, you had to press 3 enter 4 plus to add 3 and 4. It also didn't do decimal places. So, even back in 1977 when he was inducted into the Hall, the majority of journalists that had been on the committee for years, probably had absolutely no thoughts in their heads about stats because they probably didn't know how to work a calculator Simply put, stats were kind of irrelevant back then by comparison simply because comparing stats between players would take hours and hours and hours of work. It was, quite literally, a different world back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Maybe I didn't pay much attention to it before because I never saw him play, but I just took a look at his numbers and was shaking my head as to how they equate him into Hall of Fame status. Somebody help me out here. He plays 7 seasons, only rushes for over 1000 yards twice, he wasn't that effective in the passing game, and only had 7 150+ yard games in his career. Matt Forte has already doubled that. I know they only played 14 games during that era and he did some great things on special teams but to me, Sayers numbers are not even close to Hall of Fame worthy. Is Forte going to eclipse Sayers as the 2nd best Bears running back before his career is over? That might actually even be debatable as to whether he was even the 2nd best because Thomas Jones out performed him during his short tenure with the Bears.. http://www.nfl.com/player/galesayers/2524970/careerstats http://www.nfl.com/player/mattforte/234/profile His highlights were unreal, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKn90bWQWaw judging by the fact that he is the 22 ranked player of all time with the stats he says alot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TerraTor Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Rookie year was unreal... as for stats one can amass a ton of yards and TDs are a RB... see Emmitt Smith who i personally hate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Right there with you on Smith. I've never been that impressed other than his longevity. I don't begrudge him HoF honors, I just think he's toward the bottom of the list... Rookie year was unreal... as for stats one can amass a ton of yards and TDs are a RB... see Emmitt Smith who i personally hate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 So how do Sayer's stats compare with Jim Brown, an even older fella? I must say I too found it shocking that Sayers only had 2 1000 yard seasons. But that's partly because it's not true. He had over 1000 in '65,'66, & '69...so three times. Though I still think how does someone who can score six TDs in one game nevertheless not have better stats? I think Bears4Ever's point is that his stats don't even come close to HoF-worthy. Of course the late 60's and early 70's were apples to today's oranges, but shouldn't the stats at least be somewhere in the ballpark of HoF-worthy? So I did a little reading up. Some interesting entries from wikipedia: 1965: (lights out awesome rookie year) 1966: He led the Bears in receiving with 34 catches, 447 yards (so the stats say an unimpressive 34 catches, but what they don't say is that he led the team! His rushing stats were awesome. He was the offense, basically.) 1967: Sharing more of the rushing duties with other backs, such as Brian Piccolo, Sayers gained 880 yards with a 4.7 average per carry. (so not a 1000 yard season, but it's hard to slight a 4.7 ypc, plus it goes on to say he had 4 kick/punt return TDs that year...and he wasn't even the full time punt returner) 1968: After the first nine games of 1968, Sayers was again leading the NFL in rushing--he finished with 856 yards and a 6.2 average per carry. However, his season ended prematurely... (6.2ypc pre-injury? Holy cow!) 1969: In the 1969 season Sayers led the league in rushing once again with 1,032 yards, but he lacked the lightning speed he once had, and averaged only 4.4 yards per carry. (so he led the league in rushing and only had a 4.4 ypc) 1970-1972: (Due to injuries, he mostly didn't play) So up until his first serious injury, he had stats that easily projected to a HoF career. Obviously he never had a chance to prove himself over the long haul but the HoF voters gave him the benefit of the doubt...because the trajectory he was on was so obviously HoF. It's a fair question to ask if half a decade of elite play is enough for HoF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Yup. I'm certain lemonej will have much more to add... My dad still says he's the best RB the Bears ever had. Rookie year 1965 22 TDs in 14 games and BTW with Sayers being injured 2 of his 7 seasons his stats were amassed in actually 5 years. Sayers didn't vote himself into the HOF, the writers and members of the HOF did so that speaks more volumes than anything that I could say about one of my childhood idols. There is only one other HOF player that I can think of off the top of my head that has a short playing career and that is former Dolphin center Dwight Stephenson who also only played 7 years so what stats can you use to determine how a center can make the HOF in such a short career. Of course he is the center piece for my argument in favor of Jimbo Covert getting in to the HOF. Sayers was a bigger part of the Bears team than Forte is now because he also ran back kicks and punts.Sayers also didn't take himself out of games when he felt winded.I've seen Forte do this on plays right after he has made a long run. At least Forte has a decent QB,Sayers played with the likes of Rudy Bukich,Jack Concannon,Larry Rakestraw,Virgil Carter,John Huarte and later Bobby Douglass.You think the WRs are mediocre now, back then the Bears had Johnny Morris at the end of his career and Dick Gordon who was drafted in the 65 draft with Butkus and Sayers along with fullback Andy Livingston who never met a cheeseburger he didn't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I'm not doubting that during his time, Sayers was an incredibly gifted athlete who was some what of a rarity in the 60's. Football back then was no where near as competitive as it is today and so his numbers at the time, probably were HOF worthy.. maybe. I was just a little shocked to see how there was nothing eye catching about his rushing numbers to make you say "Wow". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 His highlights were unreal, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKn90bWQWaw judging by the fact that he is the 22 ranked player of all time with the stats he says alot Wow that brought back memories and seeing him stop on a dime and change directions is similar to some of what Forte does with his jump cuts. Then that really dangerous way he carried the ball like it was a loaf of bread was classic.Thanks for posting that link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Forget stats. It's the eye test. YThat said any less years in the league he probably wouldn't have got in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 2 NFL records that Sayers still holds is career kick return average 30.6 yds per return and 6 TDs in a game.These are stats I didn't know about because he passed the eye test for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Isn't Joe Namath in? He sucked and so did Terry Bradshaw. Unfortunately, guys go into the HOF sometimes because they win Super Bowls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Isn't Joe Namath in? He sucked and so did Terry Bradshaw. Unfortunately, guys go into the HOF sometimes because they win Super Bowls. Yes both are in Namath picked up a lot of passing yardage from the old AFL and was a pretty flamboyant player for his time and the one big win was huge on his HOF resume. Bradshaw played with 4 other players in the HOF including two WRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Yes both are in Namath picked up a lot of passing yardage from the old AFL and was a pretty flamboyant player for his time and the one big win was huge on his HOF resume. Bradshaw played with 4 other players in the HOF including two WRs. Yeah, Bradshaw had a GREAT defense his WHOLE career, and I believe Namath had more INT than TD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted November 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Isn't Joe Namath in? He sucked and so did Terry Bradshaw. Unfortunately, guys go into the HOF sometimes because they win Super Bowls. That's a good question. Some of these guys just get in because of how good there teams were. That's why I say, it's not the Hall of the really good, its the Hall of Fame and should be treated as such. Unfortunately you can't go back and revoke someones position but its something I wish you could do, because there are some head scratchers in there for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 That's a good question. Some of these guys just get in because of how good there teams were. That's why I say, it's not the Hall of the really good, its the Hall of Fame and should be treated as such. Unfortunately you can't go back and revoke someones position but its something I wish you could do, because there are some head scratchers in there for sure. Agreed and in recent memory it has become a political campaign almost. I still feel Howie Long should not have been voted in before Dent but his regular position on the highest rated pre-game show every week helped.I have been looking at a lot of all-time stats and Deon Sanders has only one NFL record which Hester will break probably in the next couple of weeks and that is Most Returns all time.He wasn't a great tackler and teams generally wouldn't even through on his side of the field.Sanders played on I believe atleast 3 SB teams and thats part of his resume along with legendary Combine speed numbers and his reputation of being the greatest shutdown corner in the game.I never got that when he wasn't being tested constantly and he never came up and made tackles in the run game on the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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