Connorbear Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 other than the Cutler injury. - Besides being a special teams stud, Corey Graham looks like he could play nickel as well. - Charles Tillman is the best player in the NFL at forcing fumbles in the open field. He is simply outstanding at this. - Briggs looked great tonight. He is playing at an all-pro level. - Johnny Knox showed what he is capable of tonight. - Roy Williams has to do that the rest of the season if he wants to come back. - Kellen Davis has 20 receptions and 7 touchdowns in his career. He has a ton of talent but he needs to put it together. - Tyler Clutts has proven to be a great signing. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 It was nice to see Knox make great adjustments to the ball on two receptions today. Seems like he's going after ball more aggressively than in years past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan2000 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 That ball punch and recovery by Tillman was a thing of beauty. The timing alone was amazing the guy is running by him and at just the right moment he punches the ball. That is how you know this is a skill not luck. If I had a guy running by me at or near full speed how many times out of 10 would I time that punch just right to hit all ball to knock it out and then make the recovery myself. The man's been doing it his whole career and should be in the pro bowl this year. People say our D is lucky because of turnovers but a vast majority of them are forced. The Bears create their own opportunities. In the Bears case it's a good thing to have strippers on the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 other than the Cutler injury. - Besides being a special teams stud, Corey Graham looks like he could play nickel as well. - Charles Tillman is the best player in the NFL at forcing fumbles in the open field. He is simply outstanding at this. - Briggs looked great tonight. He is playing at an all-pro level. - Johnny Knox showed what he is capable of tonight. - Roy Williams has to do that the rest of the season if he wants to come back. - Kellen Davis has 20 receptions and 7 touchdowns in his career. He has a ton of talent but he needs to put it together. - Tyler Clutts has proven to be a great signing. Peace Agreed on all points. I really enjoyed the win. It's just too bad Tillman, the zone-based defense, and the safeties got exposed by Rivers and Jackson. Otherwise it was a great game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Fully agreed. The more Clutts the better! other than the Cutler injury. - Besides being a special teams stud, Corey Graham looks like he could play nickel as well. - Charles Tillman is the best player in the NFL at forcing fumbles in the open field. He is simply outstanding at this. - Briggs looked great tonight. He is playing at an all-pro level. - Johnny Knox showed what he is capable of tonight. - Roy Williams has to do that the rest of the season if he wants to come back. - Kellen Davis has 20 receptions and 7 touchdowns in his career. He has a ton of talent but he needs to put it together. - Tyler Clutts has proven to be a great signing. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddy Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Yeah, Tillman stunk in coverage today and to make matters worse, Conte looked every bit like the rookie he is. I disagree that it was the zone based defense that got them. For Tillman, alot of it was the man coverage. If I was to blame it on the zone, it would be that it was too deep which Smith is prone to doing quite often. Agreed on all points. I really enjoyed the win. It's just too bad Tillman, the zone-based defense, and the safeties got exposed by Rivers and Jackson. Otherwise it was a great game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Yeah, Tillman stunk in coverage today and to make matters worse, Conte looked every bit like the rookie he is. I disagree that it was the zone based defense that got them. For Tillman, alot of it was the man coverage. If I was to blame it on the zone, it would be that it was too deep which Smith is prone to doing quite often. peanut is what he is... a decent #2 CB and certainly not a pro-bowl caliber corner. if he would have been moved to free safety 6-7 years ago he would have been an all-world, all-pro player at that position. this coaching staff, for whatever reason, just never saw this and kept him at the position we initially drafted him to do even though the NFL changed. peanut was drafted and put into service as a larger corner who could play tight coverage on the bigger (and usually slower) receivers in our division like moss and the big receivers from green bay (can't think of their names at the moment). this he did very well until the NFL started going with the smaller, faster and quicker WR's which peanut just does not have the speed to cover off the LOS. the differences between last week and this week are prime examples of his strengths and weaknesses. if he can physically run with the receivers he can play up and bump-and-run man coverage and do very well. if not you will see exactly what you saw yesterday with a quick/fast receiver. he will drop back 4-8 yards off the LOS and backpeddle at the snap trying to contain in which you eventually get eaten alive or give up the 5-10 yard easy reception that opposing qb's have done to us for years. that is why the safety help from conte yesterday was critical to stop jackson and the rookie just did not have the experience or speed to do so. conclusion: it's not peanut, it is our coaching staff that has failed to adjust correctly in this aspect for years on end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 peanut is what he is... a decent #2 CB and certainly not a pro-bowl caliber corner. ... Peanut's still having a great year. Calling him a #2 is not realistic. We've had a great D for years and he's been our best corner for so long I forget who came before. When you add up his picks and forced fumbles, it's a really impressive stat...too bad I forgot it exactly, but only about 3 or 4 other players have more combined over the last half decade or so and I remember thinking the ones ahead of him are all going to the HoF. I do agree that he is what he is though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Tillman is a good #1 CB. He's not an elite player but when you consider all aspects of the game and not just coverage skills, his run support is solid, and generating turnovers, he's pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Yeah, Tillman stunk in coverage today and to make matters worse, Conte looked every bit like the rookie he is. I disagree that it was the zone based defense that got them. For Tillman, alot of it was the man coverage. If I was to blame it on the zone, it would be that it was too deep which Smith is prone to doing quite often. Just about none of it looked like man coverage to me. It looked like zone or cover-2 on the plays they got burned, and one of them may have been a single-high safety. It's no coincidence that one of the key places to attack the cover-2 (i.e. just beyond the CB and towards the sideline away from the safety) was exploited more than one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Peanut's still having a great year. Calling him a #2 is not realistic. We've had a great D for years and he's been our best corner for so long I forget who came before. When you add up his picks and forced fumbles, it's a really impressive stat...too bad I forgot it exactly, but only about 3 or 4 other players have more combined over the last half decade or so and I remember thinking the ones ahead of him are all going to the HoF. I do agree that he is what he is though. well, to me it is very realistic calling him a decent/good #2 corner. that he has been our best corner for years is a testament at how poorly we have drafted since angelo arrived. a VERY GOOD/GREAT #1 corner usually does not play 5-10 yards off the LOS every down but can and usually does play up on his man and bump him at the LOS to throw off the timing and cover him closely as he moves through his route. this is more true and important than in the past with the new rules designed with the 5 yard chuck rule that gives a receiver an unimpeded route if you don't. very good corners just plain don't get passes thrown in their direction nearly as often, even at #1 receivers, because teams compensate their passing attack by throwing more at the weaker defensive players. so if you want to look up meaningful statistics, look up how much yardage he has given up in his passes defended vs. your HOF #1 cornerback candidates you mention. in my estimation, if you want to compare picks, forced fumbles and recoveries then compare him to what a very good safety has done in the same system, john lynch. if the powers that be in our coaching staff had half the brains they think they have, peanut would have been playing safety for the last umpteen years and really been a candidate for the HOF and a perennial pro-bowler. i really like peanut and his ability to strip the ball from opponents is some of the best i have ever seen. but if you are seriously putting him in a category with HOF corners i am not even remotely going to buy into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Tillman is a good #1 CB. He's not an elite player but when you consider all aspects of the game and not just coverage skills, his run support is solid, and generating turnovers, he's pretty good. i agree that peanut is very good in run support and very good at stripping the ball and in my opinion a very smart football player. what i do contest is the most important aspect for a good+ #1 cornerback in the NFL and that is his ability to play tight man coverage off the line of scrimmage. that is the pinnacle of his job description and separates the men from the boys. to say peanut can do this consistently is just not true because of the physical limitations he has. he is just not quick enough or fast enough to play up on the fast/quick key receivers in todays NFL. jackson in the last game was a prime example. steve smith of the panthers was another example of this with an exclamation point. everything you described in your post is the key qualities of an excellent safety!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 i agree that peanut is very good in run support and very good at stripping the ball and in my opinion a very smart football player. what i do contest is the most important aspect for a good+ #1 cornerback in the NFL and that is his ability to play tight man coverage off the line of scrimmage. that is the pinnacle of his job description and separates the men from the boys. to say peanut can do this consistently is just not true because of the physical limitations he has. he is just not quick enough or fast enough to play up on the fast/quick key receivers in todays NFL. jackson in the last game was a prime example. steve smith of the panthers was another example of this with an exclamation point. everything you described in your post is the key qualities of an excellent safety!! You dropped the key word and that is consistency.We have watched over the years when Tillman has a game where he plays like a number 1 and then he has a game where we feel he needs to be replaced immediately.The problem is he is the best CB on this team and if he was moved to safety I don't think they have anyone on the roster to replace his mindset.Tillman has never been the fastest or even the quickest CB for the Bears but he is the type of guy who has gotten the most out of what he has. Against the smaller quick types he has always struggled because he is terrible at change of direction but against the taller WRs he has fared a little better and that is why this last game against Jackson was out of character for him. Since this defensive staff uses a lot of zone looks at times they can hide a lot of the defiencies of their CBs.Jennings last year looked really suspect but seems to have rebound this season in the same defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 You dropped the key word and that is consistency.We have watched over the years when Tillman has a game where he plays like a number 1 and then he has a game where we feel he needs to be replaced immediately.The problem is he is the best CB on this team and if he was moved to safety I don't think they have anyone on the roster to replace his mindset.Tillman has never been the fastest or even the quickest CB for the Bears but he is the type of guy who has gotten the most out of what he has. Against the smaller quick types he has always struggled because he is terrible at change of direction but against the taller WRs he has fared a little better and that is why this last game against Jackson was out of character for him. Since this defensive staff uses a lot of zone looks at times they can hide a lot of the defiencies of their CBs.Jennings last year looked really suspect but seems to have rebound this season in the same defense. i agree that he is probably the best corner on this squad which is sad to say. we have basically ignored the CB position as much as we have ignored the offensive line position since angelo took over. at this point in peanuts career i am not 'sure' if he can be moved to a safety position. he is just running out of time in the NFL and the extra physical abuse a safety takes might be too much for him to absorb, not counting the amount of time it would take him to convert successfully. it just seems a shame that this coaching staff and GM have wasted a truly talented players career in a position he had a limited role in during his early stages as a CB. as far as jackson, i really know nothing about the guy at all. i just assumed he has an abundance of speed with the size and watching peanut, even with the cushion, trailing him by a step or more led me to that conclusion. if that is wrong then maybe the coaching staff just misplayed the way peanut should have been used in the game. on a final note... can you imagine how good our safeties would have been with mike brown and charles tillman playing together at that position? especially if we had addressed the CB position in 2006 by bringing in charles woodson as i wanted to at the time? we would have had maybe the best linebacking corp and defensive backs in the entire NFL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I saw it same as you. Most the burns were not man on man. I think they went more into that mode against Calvin, then went back to basics against Vincent. They need to go back to Calvin mode I think more often regardless if it's Calvin or Hobbes. Just about none of it looked like man coverage to me. It looked like zone or cover-2 on the plays they got burned, and one of them may have been a single-high safety. It's no coincidence that one of the key places to attack the cover-2 (i.e. just beyond the CB and towards the sideline away from the safety) was exploited more than one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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