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[Grouchy Bear]

First , I like to say kudos to Lemonej and LT2 3 for your damn good points of views on Angelo stats etc.

 

I still think we can make the playoffs and do well with the help of a healthy forte at seasons end and Jay hopefully back for the playoffs (koolaid).

 

But after this season what is the plan for next season and there after ?

 

Let's start with the Angelo rumors of retiring which I think are not true. He is still signed for a couple more years I think . If he does retire I believe buddy Ruskell takes over. Will there be a new direction or steady the course ?

Is martz going to re-up with us ? If he does decide to leave do we replace him with Tice or Day ? ( I believe Tice just re-uped ) I would imagine they would keep the same offense intact.

 

If they decided to go back to the west coast (which I prefer) where jay seems to be more comfortable (audible, 2 minute drill and non-communication breakdowns ) and just easier for his teammates and future teammates to learn and comprehend. There will be some coordinators out there after the season that are capable of working with what you have and playing to your players strengths.

May I also add it would to a better selection of veteran backup QB's if does Jay get hurt again.

 

If Martz does stay, one would think it would be on his terms of how he would demand better talent immediately ( veterans ) that would cost money. Angelo may give in but I doubt it. He has some big off season decisions already that might be pretty expensive. Don't get wrong I like martz and his scheme, but we are know where near the talent level to be the Greatest show on sod and couple of years from it.

 

LT2 3 has a much better handle on next years contracts and money allocation etc. than I, but I would think that some players jawing for more money ( who recently resigned ) are not going to get what they want.

 

This brings me to our beloved defense how much longer can they stay healthy and together (core players )? Could this be Briggs last hurrah if he doesn't keep quiet and honnor his contract? I can't see Angelo and Lovie putting up with public displays of discontent.

 

In closing this will be a huge offseason that could determine Bear future for the next couple of years.

[jason]

If Martz stays and there is no significant offensive talent improvement, then it's horrible management. You don't hire someone because they're good at something specific and then fail to give them the tools and environment to do what made them famous.

 

Either get rid of Martz or give him the tools.

[lemonej]

If Martz stays and there is no significant offensive talent improvement, then it's horrible management. You don't hire someone because they're good at something specific and then fail to give them the tools and environment to do what made them famous.

 

Either get rid of Martz or give him the tools.

Man I agree with this 100%. It almost seems as if Martz is being short changed by the personnel department. In 2 years when we know this is the OC we don't draft accordingly? When constanly drafting to accomodate the defensive scheme.

[jason]

Man I agree with this 100%. It almost seems as if Martz is being short changed by the personnel department. In 2 years when we know this is the OC we don't draft accordingly? When constanly drafting to accomodate the defensive scheme.

 

Exactly! They won't draft for this offense, but they sure as hell draft for the Lovie-2 every year. The Bears could have Lawrence Taylor on the other side of Julius Peppers, with John Randle and Mean Joe Greene in the middle, and they'd draft a DT or DE every year with this staff.

 

[Mongo3451]

Exactly! They won't draft for this offense, but they sure as hell draft for the Lovie-2 every year. The Bears could have Lawrence Taylor on the other side of Julius Peppers, with John Randle and Mean Joe Greene in the middle, and they'd draft a DT or DE every year with this staff.

Count the defensive players and rounds they were selected in. That's why the talent on O is not there. Angelo has failed to draft or Lovie has failed to develop. Can't put my finger on it. Defense will continue to be the focus untill they get it right.

 

That being said, how long would an effective offensive draft take to be successful? Don't think Cutler will live that long. Martz can go, cause we'll never draft that way with current leadership...

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I am kinda perplexed by this philosophy that the team doesn't do what it can to "fill it's needs". And in no way shape or form am I endorsing Angelo but perhaps am asking more in the Devil's Advocate tone. What more does the team need to do in order to advance the Offense?

 

Looking over a few of the skill set positions, the Bears actually have done pretty well. QB - check, RB - check and if I'm not mistaken a WR worth his weight to be a #1 just signed on for a four year deal (Bennett). Along the OL, the team did address it in the first round and unfortunatly he got hurt. They brought along a solid multi faceted player in Spencer from Seattle and found a diamond in the rough in Louis. Can they use better and reliable recievers, of course they can. Could they use solid play and higher ranked OLmen...who couldn't? But to suggest the Offense has been COMPLETELY ignored is foolhardy.

 

I am not sure that Martz is the fit the Bears need. Could Tice be the answer? Possibly. I see him being more along the lines of a West Coast, audible allowing type caller. More blue collar than high flying and bling.

[azbearsfan]

People can make excuses all they want. Martz has been terrible, and many of the fears that were expressed by many people when he came here have been realized. Martz has had input in several offensive acquisitions, so to paint him as this sad soul who hasn't been given tools is wrong. He simply is not a good coordinator for many reasons. If he goes then the offense will be better by default.

 

 

 

 

[balta1701-A]

I am kinda perplexed by this philosophy that the team doesn't do what it can to "fill it's needs". And in no way shape or form am I endorsing Angelo but perhaps am asking more in the Devil's Advocate tone. What more does the team need to do in order to advance the Offense?

 

Looking over a few of the skill set positions, the Bears actually have done pretty well. QB - check, RB - check and if I'm not mistaken a WR worth his weight to be a #1 just signed on for a four year deal (Bennett). Along the OL, the team did address it in the first round and unfortunatly he got hurt. They brought along a solid multi faceted player in Spencer from Seattle and found a diamond in the rough in Louis. Can they use better and reliable recievers, of course they can. Could they use solid play and higher ranked OLmen...who couldn't? But to suggest the Offense has been COMPLETELY ignored is foolhardy.

 

I am not sure that Martz is the fit the Bears need. Could Tice be the answer? Possibly. I see him being more along the lines of a West Coast, audible allowing type caller. More blue collar than high flying and bling.

Earl Bennett is simply not a #1 WR. Earl Bennett is a complimentary WR.

 

I'm quite content with where the Bears are on the O-Line, backfield, and QB spot, but Cutler needs people to catch the ball going forward.

[jason]

Earl Bennett is simply not a #1 WR. Earl Bennett is a complimentary WR.

 

I'm quite content with where the Bears are on the O-Line, backfield, and QB spot, but Cutler needs people to catch the ball going forward.

 

Wow. It doesn't take much to make you content.

[balta1701-A]

Wow. It doesn't take much to make you content.

This is a solid O-Line setup. Losing your starting LG and RT would devastate most O-Lines, yet the Bears have somehow held together. They could use a Spencer level backup option this year to replace Omifail, but otherwise, the Bears have a solid, young O-Line with real good athletes that is under their control almost forever.

[jason]

This is a solid O-Line setup. Losing your starting LG and RT would devastate most O-Lines, yet the Bears have somehow held together. They could use a Spencer level backup option this year to replace Omifail, but otherwise, the Bears have a solid, young O-Line with real good athletes that is under their control almost forever.

 

Do you mean they're a "solid, young" OL because they are in the bottom portion of the league in every single measurable offensive line statistic, or because they consistently don't play well together, or because they inconsistently run block, or because they are even more inconsistent pass blocking, or because the Bears' QBs get are guaranteed to get absolutely drilled on at least 2 plays per game, or because the pocket rarely exists for more than 2 seconds, or because they are guaranteed for 3 or 4 dumb false starts per game?

 

Solid? Seriously?

[jason]

I am kinda perplexed by this philosophy that the team doesn't do what it can to "fill it's needs". And in no way shape or form am I endorsing Angelo but perhaps am asking more in the Devil's Advocate tone. What more does the team need to do in order to advance the Offense?

 

Looking over a few of the skill set positions, the Bears actually have done pretty well. QB - check, RB - check and if I'm not mistaken a WR worth his weight to be a #1 just signed on for a four year deal (Bennett). Along the OL, the team did address it in the first round and unfortunatly he got hurt. They brought along a solid multi faceted player in Spencer from Seattle and found a diamond in the rough in Louis. Can they use better and reliable recievers, of course they can. Could they use solid play and higher ranked OLmen...who couldn't? But to suggest the Offense has been COMPLETELY ignored is foolhardy.

 

I am not sure that Martz is the fit the Bears need. Could Tice be the answer? Possibly. I see him being more along the lines of a West Coast, audible allowing type caller. More blue collar than high flying and bling.

 

A simple look at the last five drafts shows a philosophical trend of placing emphasis on D the first few rounds and using late round picks to guess on offensive throwaway players.

 

1-4 rounds

Year Offense Defense

2011 1 2

2010 0 2

2009 1 3

2008 3 2

2007 3 2

Totals 8 11

 

7th round

Year Offense Defense

2011 0 0

2010 1 0

2009 2 0

2008 3 2

2007 1 1

Totals 7 3

 

Aside from that, just look at last year's second rounder: Paea.

What else could have been used this year? A few players others on this board wanted.

1) Rodney Hudson - C - Florida St.

2) Torrey Smith - WR - Maryland

3) John Moffitt - OG - Wisconsin

 

Ignoring what the players have done this year - because it's impossible to know what they would have done on the Bears - all three players could have helped the Bears this year. Paea has barely made an impact.

 

It's philosophical, and the Bears over the past few years have decided to focus more on defense than offense.

[balta1701-A]

It's philosophical, and the Bears over the past few years have decided to focus more on defense than offense.

Let's be clear again...that is only true if you don't count Jay Cutler.

 

If you want to look at it a different way, the Bears have spent their last 5 first round draft picks on the offensive side of the ball, going all the way back to the 2007 draft of Olsen. 1 TE, 2 O-Linemen, and 1 QB which cost 2 picks, in addition to other high picks like Knox, Bennett, and Forte while they were at it.

 

Hell, you can go back further and even add in Benson to that list.

[lemonej]

Let's be clear again...that is only true if you don't count Jay Cutler.

 

If you want to look at it a different way, the Bears have spent their last 5 first round draft picks on the offensive side of the ball, going all the way back to the 2007 draft of Olsen. 1 TE, 2 O-Linemen, and 1 QB which cost 2 picks, in addition to other high picks like Knox, Bennett, and Forte while they were at it.

 

Hell, you can go back further and even add in Benson to that list.

Benson? Then you can go back and add Haynes and Grossman too and all are not playing with this team. One of the first rounders has netted you a 3rd rounder next year so we have nothing for that 1st rounder one of the O-lineman drafted is not playing the position he was drafted at and spent his first season injured because the team didn't do their homework on his back injury history since the injury occurred early in TC and now another injury that isn't related has shelved this pick again and he is still on his rookie contract. The other 1st round OL has suffered a similar injury to his knee that he had in college also.That totals 3 1st rounders with nothing to show so far and then you factor in you gave up 2 first rounders and a 2nd rounder plus your starting QB who was a 4th round pick of yours (when the draft was only 2 days) and got your starting QB and a 5th round pick(Knox who quite a few fans think is the new Bobby Wade). So from the last 5 drafts the yield on offense is Forte and Bennett as your solid picks and your acquisition of Cutler. Lets add Knox a 5th, Davis a 5th, Louis and Webb both 7th rounders and now you have a 2nd, 2 5ths and 2 7th's. Bennett is the first WR pick of JA's that has signed an extension with this team. All the rest were cut or allowed to leave. The only JA draft pick at RB that has signed an extension is A P and he is no longer with the team. JA has extended more guys on defense than on offense in his tenure.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

What you guys fail to realize is that they draft DE and DT a lot because their current ones SUCK. Idonije is decent, Peppers is good, Paea hasn't done much, Melton is decent, Toeaina is medicore, and Adams sucks.

 

I can't really fault a front office for attempting to improve a DL that isn't very good.

 

I agree with Balta. It's hard to draft OL with the current regime. Who do you want them to leave out? Do YOU honestly think LOVIE will give up on Louis as a player? Or Webb as an OT? Or Spencer or Garza? If they bring in a solid veteran OL this offseason plus using 2 picks on OL, I'd be fine with that, but using a 1st and one 3rd on a OT and OG would be useless because they'll never play.

 

Would Lovie put in rookie X for Garza at C? Would he put in rookie Y for Webb? Doubtful. Am I seeing I agree with this? No, but it's the way he does it, so it is what it is.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Benson? Then you can go back and add Haynes and Grossman too and all are not playing with this team. One of the first rounders has netted you a 3rd rounder next year so we have nothing for that 1st rounder one of the O-lineman drafted is not playing the position he was drafted at and spent his first season injured because the team didn't do their homework on his back injury history since the injury occurred early in TC and now another injury that isn't related has shelved this pick again and he is still on his rookie contract. The other 1st round OL has suffered a similar injury to his knee that he had in college also.That totals 3 1st rounders with nothing to show so far and then you factor in you gave up 2 first rounders and a 2nd rounder plus your starting QB who was a 4th round pick of yours (when the draft was only 2 days) and got your starting QB and a 5th round pick(Knox who quite a few fans think is the new Bobby Wade). So from the last 5 drafts the yield on offense is Forte and Bennett as your solid picks and your acquisition of Cutler. Lets add Knox a 5th, Davis a 5th, Louis and Webb both 7th rounders and now you have a 2nd, 2 5ths and 2 7th's. Bennett is the first WR pick of JA's that has signed an extension with this team. All the rest were cut or allowed to leave. The only JA draft pick at RB that has signed an extension is A P and he is no longer with the team. JA has extended more guys on defense than on offense in his tenure.

What offensive players was he supposed to extend? He extended Bennett, Hester, Cutler, and Garza, and will either extend or tag Forte. Were they supposed to extend someone else that I missed? Let me guess...Kreutz? The guy sucks.