Bears @ Broncos, 12/11/11

[adam]

This loss and the KC loss were unacceptable IMO. The Raiders, ok, first game without Cutler, and the Raiders playing good, I can see a loss there. Against KC, a loss is unacceptable regardless of the QB. For this game, our Defense was a perfect fit to stop Tebow and they did until the coaches decided to play prevent, which Tebow is actually good against.

 

Wow, I am so pissed because we are basically out of the playoff hunt with this loss. Atlanta and Detroit are both a game up and the Giants still have to play. Either way, we would have to win out to even have a chance, and I just don't see that happening after this loss.

[adam]

And you're a complete, singular-thinking idiot. Do you not realize the ONE play by Barber means nothing if the coaches actually try to score on the last three drives? Can you freaking count? Three drives of more than one play is naturally greater than one.

 

Do you not realize that plays during the earlier portions of the game affect the later portions of the game? Are you so obtuse that you don't understand this simple concept? If they even remotely take chances, it's entirely possible they get a FG on offense or a stop on the last two possessions on defense, and Barber's play is meaningless.

There are definitely a lot of failures throughout the game that can affect the outcome, but I think he was saying that the Barber play was probably the biggest in the fact that if he simply stays in bounds, we win. It was an individual mistake that essentially changed the game.

[jason]

This loss and the KC loss were unacceptable IMO. The Raiders, ok, first game without Cutler, and the Raiders playing good, I can see a loss there. Against KC, a loss is unacceptable regardless of the QB. For this game, our Defense was a perfect fit to stop Tebow and they did until the coaches decided to play prevent, which Tebow is actually good against.

 

Wow, I am so pissed because we are basically out of the playoff hunt with this loss. Atlanta and Detroit are both a game up and the Giants still have to play. Either way, we would have to win out to even have a chance, and I just don't see that happening after this loss.

 

Agreed. The only positive to all of this is the fact that we now know Hanie is not a suitable backup QB. That's about all that has been learned the last three games.

[GakMan23]

Caleb Hanie is not a NFL qb and this coaching staff is a joke. Mike Martz couldn't coach his head out of his ass. L Louis is just as bad as I thought. He was a TE in college for a reason.

[Bears4Ever_34]

And you're a complete, singular-thinking idiot. Do you not realize the ONE play by Barber means nothing if the coaches actually try to score on the last three drives? Can you freaking count? Three drives of more than one play is naturally greater than one.

 

Do you not realize that plays during the earlier portions of the game affect the later portions of the game? Are you so obtuse that you don't understand this simple concept? If they even remotely take chances, it's entirely possible they get a FG on offense or a stop on the last two possessions on defense, and Barber's play is meaningless.

Oh Jesus Christ that's the dumbest shit I've ever heard. The game was LOST right when Barber fumbled. What part of that do you not understand? THEY COULD HAVE RAN THE CLOCK OUT. Game Over! The prevent defense gave up 7 points and all the Bears had to do was stay in bounds and the game was theres. If you don't understand that then please check in to the nearest mental institution.

[jason]

There are definitely a lot of failures throughout the game that can affect the outcome, but I think he was saying that the Barber play was probably the biggest in the fact that if he simply stays in bounds, we win. It was an individual mistake that essentially changed the game.

 

I completely understand the thought; it's not difficult to comprehend. But that's very simple-minded and absolves the coaching staff of their much greater mistakes and gutless play-calling that led up to Barber's boneheaded play.

 

This has been Lovie's MO since he's been here. We've talked on this board numerous times about this. The Bears almost never step on the other team's neck. It's just not how they roll. And it's gutless. This situation, this game, this loss, and Barber's play, were entirely avoidable with better coaching.

[jason]

Oh Jesus Christ that's the dumbest shit I've ever heard. The game was LOST right when Barber fumbled. What part of that do you not understand? THEY COULD HAVE RAN THE CLOCK OUT. Game Over! The prevent defense gave up 7 points and all the Bears had to do was stay in bounds and the game was theres. If you don't understand that then please check in to the nearest mental institution.

 

Dude. Don't you realize the first three quarters have an impact on the fourth? Don't you realize the mistakes made leading up to the fourth quarter have an impact on how the rest of the game goes?

 

Yes, they could have run out the clock if Barber stays in bounds. It was a stupid play. I understand it. But poor coaching led to that even mattering. They shut down the Broncos for the entire game and all of the sudden they drive for ten points in two possessions...that is a coaching change. And that's not even considering the three straight offensive possessions in which nothing but runs were called. Change either of those gutless styles of coaching, and Barber's play doesn't matter. Cause and effect.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Dude. Don't you realize the first three quarters have an impact on the fourth? Don't you realize the mistakes made leading up to the fourth quarter have an impact on how the rest of the game goes?

 

Yes, they could have run out the clock if Barber stays in bounds. It was a stupid play. I understand it. But poor coaching led to that even mattering. They shut down the Broncos for the entire game and all of the sudden they drive for ten points in two possessions...that is a coaching change. And that's not even considering the three straight offensive possessions in which nothing but runs were called. Change either of those gutless styles of coaching, and Barber's play doesn't matter. Cause and effect.

You are going to make me go insane. Look, the coaching was awful, we all know that. Lovie is a moron for using the prevent defense which consequently doesn't prevent anything. Great.. Okay, now lets move on to the final 2 minutes of the game when we were LEADING the game. All that other stuff you can analyze all you want but the Bears should have still won the game if Barber just stays in bounds. It's not really a hard thing to understand.

[Connorbear]

I completely understand the thought; it's not difficult to comprehend. But that's very simple-minded and absolves the coaching staff of their much greater mistakes and gutless play-calling that led up to Barber's boneheaded play.

 

This has been Lovie's MO since he's been here. We've talked on this board numerous times about this. The Bears almost never step on the other team's neck. It's just not how they roll. And it's gutless. This situation, this game, this loss, and Barber's play, were entirely avoidable with better coaching.

I agree they got way to conservative but if Barber stays in bounds we get the win.

 

Season is over. They will not win another game.

 

Peace

[jason]

You are going to make me go insane. Look, the coaching was awful, we all know that. Lovie is a moron for using the prevent defense which consequently doesn't prevent anything. Great.. Okay, now lets move on to the final 2 minutes of the game when we were LEADING the game. All that other stuff you can analyze all you want but the Bears should have still won the game if Barber just stays in bounds. It's not really a hard thing to understand.

 

I'm sorry if I just don't see things in simple terms. Thinking that way is obtuse at best.

 

This is simple.

 

I agree with you. Barber doesn't run OOB, the Bears probably win. But a good coach wouldn't have had Barber in that situation because they wouldn't have called 9 gutless runs on offense and went into prevent on defense. Again, cause and effect.

[Bears4Ever_34]

I'm sorry if I just don't see things in simple terms. Thinking that way is obtuse at best.

 

This is simple.

 

I agree with you. Barber doesn't run OOB, the Bears probably win. But a good coach wouldn't have had Barber in that situation because they wouldn't have called 9 gutless runs on offense and went into prevent on defense. Again, cause and effect.

Wtf is there to be obtuse about? The Bears lost the game because of Marion Barber, period end of story. The coaches didn't fumble the ball and the coaches didn't tell Barber to run out of bounds. That stuff is Football 101.

[CubbiesFan07]

while barber may have coughed up the ball at the end and ran out of bounds, he shouldn't get the full blame. he was also our only TD today, and ran hard the entire game without fault.

 

using barber as a scapegoat for this game is just dumb. without him we would not have had a lead to begin with! end of story. (he would have done even better if hanie hadn't overthrown him for a 30yd+ gain, easily)

 

we went against a defense that is playing lights out since their bye week.

 

i just can't believe that people put blame on someone who accounted for more than half our yards from offense... that's absurd.

[GakMan23]

So does this mean Briggs is super pissed now?

[Doug Plank]

while barber may have coughed up the ball at the end and ran out of bounds, he shouldn't get the full blame. he was also our only TD today, and ran hard the entire game without fault.

 

using barber as a scapegoat for this game is just dumb. without him we would not have had a lead to begin with! end of story. (he would have done even better if hanie hadn't overthrown him for a 30yd+ gain, easily)

 

we went against a defense that is playing lights out since their bye week.

 

i just can't believe that people put blame on someone who accounted for more than half our yards from offense... that's absurd.

I hope Hanie's enjoying these days because they are his last in the league. No one is going to pay that douche to be their QB, not even 3rd string.

[CubbiesFan07]

I hope Hanie's enjoying these days because they are his last in the league. No one is going to pay that douche to be their QB, not even 3rd string.

 

If he was given decent plays to work with I would agree with this. Play actions as an essential part to the game. When they're so "run heavy," why the hell would you not do 1 play action. I cannot remember 1 play action this entire game. And where are the screens?? I saw some screens today, sure, TO WR'S! Where are the RB screens - Bell is more than capable of doing them, and doing them well. I would not prefer to have him on my team either, but I don't think the coaches are really adapting to where he feels comfortable. Couple passes were off today, some were dead on and dropped - it happens.

 

With a new QB, you think they'd utilize a TE (6'7"... doesn't get much bigger) or a couple of screens to help him out. Instead they go with 2-3 WR running down the field every time, with a 5-6 man coverage. Uh, duh?

[ChileBear]

I agree they got way to conservative but if Barber stays in bounds we get the win.

 

Season is over. They will not win another game.

 

Peace

Yep, three more losses coming up. And please, don't jepordize Cutler by rushing him back.

[jason]

Wtf is there to be obtuse about? The Bears lost the game because of Marion Barber, period end of story. The coaches didn't fumble the ball and the coaches didn't tell Barber to run out of bounds. That stuff is Football 101.

 

Simiarly, Barber didn't tell the offense to shut it down the last three drives, nor did he tell the defense to play prevent and allow 10 points to a team that had been shut out the previous 58 minutes. That's football 101. But ignore that and concentrate on math 101. If the Bears have simply 3 more points, or don't allow the 7 from the TD, Barber could have run out of bounds every single run of the last drive and it wouldn't have mattered.

 

The game is not won or lost in one play. That's also football 101.

[balta1701-A]

Simiarly, Barber didn't tell the offense to shut it down the last three drives, nor did he tell the defense to play prevent and allow 10 points to a team that had been shut out the previous 58 minutes. That's football 101. But ignore that and concentrate on math 101. If the Bears have simply 3 more points, or don't allow the 7 from the TD, Barber could have run out of bounds every single run of the last drive and it wouldn't have mattered.

 

The game is not won or lost in one play. That's also football 101.

I'd say that football 101 is that a game is not won in 1 play, but it can fairly easily be lost in 1 play.

 

You change the results of 1 of those 2 Barber plays, and you change the result of this game.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Simiarly, Barber didn't tell the offense to shut it down the last three drives, nor did he tell the defense to play prevent and allow 10 points to a team that had been shut out the previous 58 minutes. That's football 101. But ignore that and concentrate on math 101. If the Bears have simply 3 more points, or don't allow the 7 from the TD, Barber could have run out of bounds every single run of the last drive and it wouldn't have mattered.

 

The game is not won or lost in one play. That's also football 101.

 

[selection7]

I mostly agree with Balta and bears4ever. Good plays and bad plays are going to happen throughout the game. But when you choke at the very end, leaving your team no time to recover or adjust to the newly dire situation, in what amounts to a purely mental error (the fumble too...not holding onto the ball in that situation when we didn't even need [being the operative word] more yards is a mental error) is not the same as "just a bad play". Players who are capable of that will find a way to lose, one way or the other. It's not acceptable at this high a level of competition.

 

The reason I say "mostly" is because I want to add people to the 'kick 'em off the team' list. I'm not trying to be kind to Barber. The Bear who missed an easy tackle (who knows what was going through his head..."get a big hit...don't let him drag you for yards", I have no idea) to let Denver get out of bounds, the DC who failed to realise after an entire drive of his Dline failing to get anywhere near Tebow that a change of strategy was in order, the blown coverage on the medium out (who also got out of bounds and picked up big yardage), the head coach who didn't mentally prepare his team for such a scenario when this is the only way the Broncos ever win. Inexcusable mental mistakes.

[jason]

I'd say that football 101 is that a game is not won in 1 play, but it can fairly easily be lost in 1 play.

 

You change the results of 1 of those 2 Barber plays, and you change the result of this game.

 

The difference:

 

You change the results of 1 of those 2 Barber plays, and you change the result of this game.

You change the results of 1 of those 20 or so defensive play calls, and you change the result of this game.

You change the results of 1 of those 9 gutless runs up the middle on offense, and you change the result of this game.

 

Barber is being paint as a goat, but his he failed on 2 plays. The coaching staff failed on somewhere near 30 plays. Both screwed up, but the coaches screwed up much more often.

[jason]

 

Brilliant comeback. Way to convey your point with clear logic, irrefutable statistics, understanding of simple math, and a firm grasp of football.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Brilliant comeback. Way to convey your point with clear logic, irrefutable statistics, understanding of simple math, and a firm grasp of football.

It's more fun to let 50 cent do the talking when there is nothing but crap to respond to. You hardly ever make any valid points that are worthy of responses. Now I know how Stephen A Smith feels when he has to sit and argue with Skip Bayless all day long. I'm tired of educating you about the game of Football. You talk about Math 101 and then dismiss the fact that they were up by 3 points (10 minus 7 = 3) and all Marion Barber had to do was fall down and the Bears end the game right there. The games over. We win. There's nothing to dispute about that. Stop trying to sit there and spend all day trying to make up shit arguments to beat around the facts. Who gives a rats ass about debating the fact that they executed terrible defensively in the last 3 minutes of the game, the bottom line is they still had the lead and would have had to do something incredibly stupid like running out of bounds to affect the outcome of the game. They actually had a 3% chance of losing that game when the Bears had the ball before Barber goes out of bounds. That means the only things that really could have affected the outcome were running out of bounds, or a fumble.

 

Furthermore, ask around. Go and ask any human being that watched the Bears game and ask them what lost the game. I would venture to say every one of them would tell you Marion Barber.

[jason]

It's more fun to let 50 cent do the talking when there is nothing but crap to respond to. You hardly ever make any valid points that are worthy of responses. Now I know how Stephen A Smith feels when he has to sit and argue with Skip Bayless all day long. I'm tired of educating you about the game of Football. You talk about Math 101 and then dismiss the fact that they were up by 3 points (10 minus 7 = 3) and all Marion Barber had to do was fall down and the Bears end the game right there. The games over. We win. There's nothing to dispute about that. Stop trying to sit there and spend all day trying to make up shit arguments to beat around the facts. Who gives a rats ass about debating the fact that they executed terrible defensively in the last 3 minutes of the game, the bottom line is they still had the lead and would have had to do something incredibly stupid like running out of bounds to affect the outcome of the game. They actually had a 3% chance of losing that game when the Bears had the ball before Barber goes out of bounds. That means the only things that really could have affected the outcome were running out of bounds, or a fumble.

 

The fact that you said they had a "3% chance of losing that game" proves to me that you don't have a clue about how math, statistics, or just about anything else in the world works other than ignorant links to 50-Cent.

 

You STILL can't explain the reason the Bears didn't even try to get a first down on three consecutive drives, and played prevent defense on the last two. Those are both valid points.

 

OFFENSE

Valid point and fact: The Bears ignorantly shut down the offense in the 4th quarter, in classic Lovie, play not to lose strategy.

Avg Drive Length: 2:15

Avg Drive Length 1st: 2:35

Avg Drive Lengh 2nd: 2:32

Avg Drive Length 3rd: 2:39

Avg Drive Length 4th: 1:28

Avg Drive Length last 3 drives: 1:27

 

The statistics pretty much prove the Bears shut it down in the fourth quarter, and particularly the last three drives (3 second final drive not included in stats). If they had actually tried to run plays as they had before, they would have held the ball on average 48 more second per drive. IF they had done this, then the game is won.

 

DEFENSE

Valid point and fact: Until the last two Bronco drives in regulation, the Bears were not playing an exclusive prevent defense.

Valid point and fact: Until the last two Bronco drives in regulation, the Bears had not given up any points.

 

Avg Drive Length: 2:10

Avg Drive Length 1st: 2:25

Avg Drive Lengh 2nd: 3:18

Avg Drive Length 3rd: 1:26

Avg Drive Length 4th: 1:47

 

There was no reason to go into prevent because the Bears already had a shutout going, and were actually performing better in the second half. The move to prevent hurt the team and allowed the Broncos to score. Without the prevent, the Broncos likely don't score the entire game and the game is won.

 

What about all of these facts don't you understand?

[Bears4Ever_34]

The fact that you said they had a "3% chance of losing that game" proves to me that you don't have a clue about how math, statistics, or just about anything else in the world works other than ignorant links to 50-Cent.

 

You STILL can't explain the reason the Bears didn't even try to get a first down on three consecutive drives, and played prevent defense on the last two. Those are both valid points.

 

OFFENSE

Valid point and fact: The Bears ignorantly shut down the offense in the 4th quarter, in classic Lovie, play not to lose strategy.

Avg Drive Length: 2:15

Avg Drive Length 1st: 2:35

Avg Drive Lengh 2nd: 2:32

Avg Drive Length 3rd: 2:39

Avg Drive Length 4th: 1:28

Avg Drive Length last 3 drives: 1:27

 

The statistics pretty much prove the Bears shut it down in the fourth quarter, and particularly the last three drives (3 second final drive not included in stats). If they had actually tried to run plays as they had before, they would have held the ball on average 48 more second per drive. IF they had done this, then the game is won.

 

DEFENSE

Valid point and fact: Until the last two Bronco drives in regulation, the Bears were not playing an exclusive prevent defense.

Valid point and fact: Until the last two Bronco drives in regulation, the Bears had not given up any points.

 

Avg Drive Length: 2:10

Avg Drive Length 1st: 2:25

Avg Drive Lengh 2nd: 3:18

Avg Drive Length 3rd: 1:26

Avg Drive Length 4th: 1:47

 

There was no reason to go into prevent because the Bears already had a shutout going, and were actually performing better in the second half. The move to prevent hurt the team and allowed the Broncos to score. Without the prevent, the Broncos likely don't score the entire game and the game is won.

 

What about all of these facts don't you understand?

 

First of all, the Bears didn't play prevent defense. What they ran was their base Cover 2 which is the perfect defense to run in that situation. It's the same thing they did to the Philadelphia Eagles and San Diego Chargers to finish them off at the end of games. They just executed horribly.

 

Secondly, I didn't make that number up. It was shown on ESPN where they used a formula designated to show you the % of how likely it was for Denver to win throughout all of the Tebow comebacks and the number was 3% for the Bears (The lowest out of all the Tebow comebacks). You are really nitpicking at random things. How about the perfectly thrown ball by Tebow early in the 3rd quarter that should have gone for a touchdown to Demaryius Thomas? What about their 6 drops that might have allowed them to sustain drives? What if the blocked FG doesn't happen? How about the missed throw by Haine to Barber that would have gone for atleast 50 if not a touchdown in the 2nd half. You are throwing way too many variables into the situation but only on one side of the equation. You can nitpick at every little thing if you want but to what end? Things happen, and some things don't and the reality is the Bears still had the game in hand with a 10-7 lead and 2 min to go where one play by Barber literally lost the game for the Bears. What part of that do you not comprehend?