V-Jack won't be franchised

[madlithuanian]

I've got no problem going LT...

 

I think the key is to get a blue chip player at any position with that first pick....

 

The last time we were in need of a WR and drafted one in the 1st round I was excited when a player who was suppose to go in the top 10 fell all the way down to us, BUT, it turned out David Terrell was garbage.

 

I want a vet WR with proven abilities, a solid #1, and a second vet WR or high draft pick, BUT to be honest, I would prefer a BLUE CHIP left tackle in the first, if there is a killer option left at #19. Replace Webb with a top prospect LT, you have Williams at LG who was looking pretty good before injured, Lance Lewis at RG who did great there before being forced out of position due to injuries, and Carimi back at RT.

 

Garza is getting a bit long in the tooth and we will need to groom a replacement for him but if we did what I said above, we would have a very young OL with great potential for years. It all starts up front. If we want to protect Cutler and give Forte room to run, we need to get Webb out of the starter position and use him as a backup.

 

[Guest TerraTor]

I'd take either...but it seems J-Jack is more bird in hand since there's a good chance Bowe will be tagged. Open the damn checkbook McCaskeys! You got the interest last season, it's time to pay up now!

 

 

I think we can have Stevie Johnson or VJax. My preference is Bowe above anyone, but u like stated, hes gonna get tagged

[jason]

The last time we were in need of a WR and drafted one in the 1st round I was excited when a player who was suppose to go in the top 10 fell all the way down to us, BUT, it turned out David Terrell was garbage.

 

I want a vet WR with proven abilities, a solid #1, and a second vet WR or high draft pick, BUT to be honest, I would prefer a BLUE CHIP left tackle in the first, if there is a killer option left at #19. Replace Webb with a top prospect LT, you have Williams at LG who was looking pretty good before injured, Lance Lewis at RG who did great there before being forced out of position due to injuries, and Carimi back at RT.

 

Garza is getting a bit long in the tooth and we will need to groom a replacement for him but if we did what I said above, we would have a very young OL with great potential for years. It all starts up front. If we want to protect Cutler and give Forte room to run, we need to get Webb out of the starter position and use him as a backup.

 

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

 

All the clamoring for WR in round 1 makes little sense unless a big time FA is signed to be the actual #1. It all starts up front. Give Cutler enough time, and even the aforementioned David Terrell would be able to get open consistently.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

 

All the clamoring for WR in round 1 makes little sense unless a big time FA is signed to be the actual #1. It all starts up front. Give Cutler enough time, and even the aforementioned David Terrell would be able to get open consistently.

I agree that the best approach is drafting the LT (since there are none available via FA) and signing the Wideout via FA. I have no desire to try and play russian roulette with this wideouts early in the draft (seems like there is such a bust rate). I'd much rather go the safer route of a LT or if a nice looking DE came our away, I'd go that route too.

 

I do think we need a LT, DE, and WR. However, nothing is more important than a #1 WR in my mind. Nothing.

[jason]

I agree that the best approach is drafting the LT (since there are none available via FA) and signing the Wideout via FA. I have no desire to try and play russian roulette with this wideouts early in the draft (seems like there is such a bust rate). I'd much rather go the safer route of a LT or if a nice looking DE came our away, I'd go that route too.

 

I do think we need a LT, DE, and WR. However, nothing is more important than a #1 WR in my mind. Nothing.

 

Jay Cutler's body probably disagrees with the last part.

[jason]

One of the things I keep seeing from many posters is something along the lines of "Get VJax and then pick up either Floyd or Jeffery in the first round." Isn't that a little too Madden GM, and a little away from the realities of an offense? Aren't they the same types of players?

[Chitownhustla]

One of the things I keep seeing from many posters is something along the lines of "Get VJax and then pick up either Floyd or Jeffery in the first round." Isn't that a little too Madden GM, and a little away from the realities of an offense? Aren't they the same types of players?

 

Maybe these are too Madden GM-ish

 

GB's WR core

AZ's- Fitz and Bolden(before trade and in their Superbowl year)

NE's- Moss and Welker

Indy- Harrison, Wayne and Clark

PHI- Jackson and Maclin

 

 

There are more examples out there but you get the point.

[madlithuanian]

I see it like Roddy White and Julio Jones. Maybe not quite as good, but don't we want some semblance of that? A top tier WR vet and a blue chip prospect? I'm more than content hoping that the blue chip prospect can be had in the 2nd if there's a blue chip LT we can nab in the 1st. But I think for WR, that goal of getting a true threat vet and a potential stud is what we must strive for in order to compete.

 

Who won the last SB's and who were their WR's?

 

GB - Jennings, Driver, Nelson

NO - Colston, Henderson, Moore (probably the weakest second fiddle guys of the lot)

PIT - Ward, Holmes

NYG - Toomer, Smith (fairly weak here too...and odd defensive win in the lot of offensive fireworks over recent times)

IND - Harrison, Wayne

 

There are exceptions, but it seem to me the more quality WR's at hand, the better. And yes, you must have a good OL... I'm not arguing WR over OL, I am arguing for the tandem.

 

 

 

One of the things I keep seeing from many posters is something along the lines of "Get VJax and then pick up either Floyd or Jeffery in the first round." Isn't that a little too Madden GM, and a little away from the realities of an offense? Aren't they the same types of players?

 

[Chitownhustla]

I see it like Roddy White and Julio Jones. Maybe not quite as good, but don't we want some semblance of that? A top tier WR vet and a blue chip prospect? I'm more than content hoping that the blue chip prospect can be had in the 2nd if there's a blue chip LT we can nab in the 1st. But I think for WR, that goal of getting a true threat vet and a potential stud is what we must strive for in order to compete.

 

Who won the last SB's and who were their WR's?

 

GB - Jennings, Driver, Nelson

NO - Colston, Henderson, Moore (probably the weakest second fiddle guys of the lot)

PIT - Ward, Holmes

NYG - Toomer, Smith (fairly weak here too...and odd defensive win in the lot of offensive fireworks over recent times)

IND - Harrison, Wayne

 

There are exceptions, but it seem to me the more quality WR's at hand, the better. And yes, you must have a good OL... I'm not arguing WR over OL, I am arguing for the tandem.

 

Totally forgot the ATl combo, good point!

 

I am all for upgrading the Oline as well, i guess i would be happy with at least one WR worth a shit. When you start looking at what the Bears need it does get to be depressing.

 

WR- 2 guys but would live with one, if they are not going WR in the First then a FA pick is needed badly

OL- i think one guy may do the trick with Williams and Carmi coming back healthy

DT- need an upgrade

CB- Need one for sure

S- we need one here too

RB- cant forget we still need to sign Forte still

DE- need but not as big as others, if say we sign Mario Williams then maybe the DT would not be such a concern

 

 

So the way i see it we need

6 new guys that can give us better production

2 wr

1 DT

1 OL

1 CB

1 S

 

We have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds, what is the chances that all 4 give us better production??? So really the draft depends on what is done in FA. If we sign V Jack then that can really open up the options in the first round ie taking a OT instead of a WR. If we sign Mario Williams then maybe we dont have to worry about a DT or CB as much.

 

 

How much cap space are the Bears going to have this year? Luckliy the new CBA keeps draft day contracts lower then before. Forte still needs to be signed. I wonder in Urlacher would redo his contract to be a smaller hit this year to help get more guys in here. You know he wants to win now!

 

GB has done so well in the draft by drafting the best avaible, at some point we need to get to where we can draft the same way.

 

 

 

[lemonej]

The problem with a 1st round OT is that at 19 the Bears would be in line to pick the 4th best OT if most mocks follow true to form and have Kalil,Reiff and Martin going of the board prior to the Bears pick.What looks like the key positions that may affect the draft early are CB and DE. The wildcard player is RG3.He is the subject of quite a few rumors for trade up scenarios. There are quite a few DLs with first round grades and I wouldn't be surprised if someone slipped to the Bears pick. I'm hoping the next GM tries to address the Bears' biggest needs via FA. For once I would like the Bears to be able to take the highest rated player on the board and not reach for a need.

[Mongo3451]

The problem with a 1st round OT is that at 19 the Bears would be in line to pick the 4th best OT if most mocks follow true to form and have Kalil,Reiff and Martin going of the board prior to the Bears pick.What looks like the key positions that may affect the draft early are CB and DE. The wildcard player is RG3.He is the subject of quite a few rumors for trade up scenarios. There are quite a few DLs with first round grades and I wouldn't be surprised if someone slipped to the Bears pick. I'm hoping the next GM tries to address the Bears' biggest needs via FA. For once I would like the Bears to be able to take the highest rated player on the board and not reach for a need.

I understand what you are saying, but unless OT #4 grades out as a 2nd rounder, get him. I echo the sentiment of Pix's post. Get that #1 WR via free agency, draft another quality wideout in the 2nd. After that, defense. I want the OL fixed once and for all, but don't want to throw a bunch of new bodies in there to do it. The only turnover I want for next season is at LT. The other four startes, IMO, are good enough, with 3 of them at the beginning of their carreers. At this point, continuity and an offseason without a labor dispute will help our young oline extensively.

 

New GM should have a boatload of money to invest. I would prefer impact players VS depth players. That's what the draft is for and developing young talent. Aside from Forte, there are no big contracts to hand out. Against popular opinion, I'd give Briggs a small bump with the condition he STFU untill the end of his contract.(That'd be a unique clause huh?)

 

That being said, I want Bowe or Jackson, even if we have to overpay for their services. We were nervous about Peppers, but he is worth every penny. My gut tells me a true #1 in his prime will be worth his weight in gold. I also would mind a 2 year contract for Reggie Wayne as a 2nd option.(just dreamin on that one though)

[Connorbear]

They are paying Bennett to be the #2 and I think we Cutler at QB he will catch 50 plus passes each of the next 4 years. I think they will try to sign a number #1 and possibly draft a WR in the 4th round or later.

 

If this happens, I see there needs in the first 3 rounds as follows (in no particular order):

 

- OL

- LB

- CB

- DL

 

Peace

 

[DrunkBomber]

There are a lot of 2nd/3rd wr options for FA, so assuming they get one of the capable number 1s then they can either draft another early or sign 2 fa wr's. They need 2 WRs without question.

[jason]

Maybe these are too Madden GM-ish

 

GB's WR core

AZ's- Fitz and Bolden(before trade and in their Superbowl year)

NE's- Moss and Welker

Indy- Harrison, Wayne and Clark

PHI- Jackson and Maclin

 

There are more examples out there but you get the point.

 

You completely misunderstand my point. In fact, you only prove my point.

 

Fitz & Boldin - Are completely different players

NE - Moss and Welker, completely different players.

Indy - Harrison and Wayne (Clark is a TE) are completely different players.

Phi - These two are pretty similar, but this is a stupid example because Jackson is 5'10" and Maclin is a generous 6'. What everyone keeps talking about is a big WR who is a bonafide #1.

 

So, with all that said, if the Bears get V.Jackson and/or Bowe (both are big, explosive, #1 WRs), and then getting Blackmon/Jeffery/Floyd (big, explosive, #1 WRs) doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

The combo that's getting thrown around is Madden stuff. There needs to be a balance in WRs, a mix up of talents that complement each other. If the Bears grab VJax or Bowe in FA, then they probably would be fine as is, and have a great blend of speed (Knox, Hester) and possession (Bennett) guys who would work well together without having to shoulder the burden of #1 WR status.

[jason]

I see it like Roddy White and Julio Jones. Maybe not quite as good, but don't we want some semblance of that? A top tier WR vet and a blue chip prospect? I'm more than content hoping that the blue chip prospect can be had in the 2nd if there's a blue chip LT we can nab in the 1st. But I think for WR, that goal of getting a true threat vet and a potential stud is what we must strive for in order to compete.

 

Who won the last SB's and who were their WR's?

 

GB - Jennings, Driver, Nelson

NO - Colston, Henderson, Moore (probably the weakest second fiddle guys of the lot)

PIT - Ward, Holmes

NYG - Toomer, Smith (fairly weak here too...and odd defensive win in the lot of offensive fireworks over recent times)

IND - Harrison, Wayne

 

There are exceptions, but it seem to me the more quality WR's at hand, the better. And yes, you must have a good OL... I'm not arguing WR over OL, I am arguing for the tandem.

 

GB, NO, and IND are teams that are virtually all offense all the time, and have all Hall of Fame QBs who can thread a needle at 50 yards. GB has the best blend, but I really don't think Nelson is that great. I think he's a product of the system. Same thoughts go for the #2 and #3 guys in NO. As I said in the other reply, Harrison and Wayne are completely different players. Wayne is the big #1 everyone is talking about, and Harrison is a lightning quick possession guy who runs full speed out of his breaks. And PIT/NYG aren't even worth addressing really; they're WRs aren't that great.

 

I will admit, however, that your thoughts about Atlanta are the best comparison to what is being discussed. While White is only 6', he's thought of as a big WR. And Jones is without a doubt a big WR. So, that's an interesting comparison, and a potential example of how the double big WR thing could work.

[Chitownhustla]

You completely misunderstand my point. In fact, you only prove my point.

 

Fitz & Boldin - Are completely different players

NE - Moss and Welker, completely different players.

Indy - Harrison and Wayne (Clark is a TE) are completely different players.

Phi - These two are pretty similar, but this is a stupid example because Jackson is 5'10" and Maclin is a generous 6'. What everyone keeps talking about is a big WR who is a bonafide #1.

 

So, with all that said, if the Bears get V.Jackson and/or Bowe (both are big, explosive, #1 WRs), and then getting Blackmon/Jeffery/Floyd (big, explosive, #1 WRs) doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

The combo that's getting thrown around is Madden stuff. There needs to be a balance in WRs, a mix up of talents that complement each other. If the Bears grab VJax or Bowe in FA, then they probably would be fine as is, and have a great blend of speed (Knox, Hester) and possession (Bennett) guys who would work well together without having to shoulder the burden of #1 WR status.

How differnt are GB's WR???? Jenning, Driver, Nelson, Jones??? Not too different so i guess it is ok to have similar WR types. You know what type of WR i want???

 

Good ones, I dont care if they are the same height, speed etc. as long as they are good im happy. right now we have a bunch of similar crappy wr's. Bennet being the best option and there ya go, there is your balance. Vjac, Floyd and Bennet

 

 

I did miss the point of having two of the same wr types. You say it is Madden stuff, i say you are wrong, they did it in AZ, they are doing it in ATL. There are many teams over the history of the NFL that have had similar typed WR. If the Bears grab a decent OL FA and Vjack then i would be ok with taking Jeffrey or Floyd in the first round especially if they are the best option out there. By doing a Vjac and Floyd or Jeffrey combo the Bears would be done dealing with needing a WR for a long time. WE already have Bennet locked up for a long time. You have Cutler, give him weapons. Cutler, Forte, Vjack, Floyd, Davis has the making of a special O.

 

Really at the end of the day, give me one great WR and i will shut up about O

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

You completely misunderstand my point. In fact, you only prove my point.

 

Fitz & Boldin - Are completely different players

NE - Moss and Welker, completely different players.

Indy - Harrison and Wayne (Clark is a TE) are completely different players.

Phi - These two are pretty similar, but this is a stupid example because Jackson is 5'10" and Maclin is a generous 6'. What everyone keeps talking about is a big WR who is a bonafide #1.

 

So, with all that said, if the Bears get V.Jackson and/or Bowe (both are big, explosive, #1 WRs), and then getting Blackmon/Jeffery/Floyd (big, explosive, #1 WRs) doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

The combo that's getting thrown around is Madden stuff. There needs to be a balance in WRs, a mix up of talents that complement each other. If the Bears grab VJax or Bowe in FA, then they probably would be fine as is, and have a great blend of speed (Knox, Hester) and possession (Bennett) guys who would work well together without having to shoulder the burden of #1 WR status.

 

I agree. Mario manning ham makes a lot of sense. He's a speed wideout that the head could add if they decide to target wideout via the draft. Personally I think the bears should sign Mario and one other wideout and worry about de And lt via the draft. If they have the.money for three moves go vjax/Bowe/Johnson plus Mario Mann and Williams. Address lt and cb via the draft plus the lb spots.

[GakMan23]

I would go LT if it is there in 1st round then get McNutt from Iowa in the 2nd. If neccessary trade up earlier in the 2nd.

[Bears4Ever_34]

How differnt are GB's WR???? Jenning, Driver, Nelson, Jones??? Not too different so i guess it is ok to have similar WR types. You know what type of WR i want???

 

Good ones, I dont care if they are the same height, speed etc. as long as they are good im happy. right now we have a bunch of similar crappy wr's. Bennet being the best option and there ya go, there is your balance. Vjac, Floyd and Bennet

 

 

I did miss the point of having two of the same wr types. You say it is Madden stuff, i say you are wrong, they did it in AZ, they are doing it in ATL. There are many teams over the history of the NFL that have had similar typed WR. If the Bears grab a decent OL FA and Vjack then i would be ok with taking Jeffrey or Floyd in the first round especially if they are the best option out there. By doing a Vjac and Floyd or Jeffrey combo the Bears would be done dealing with needing a WR for a long time. WE already have Bennet locked up for a long time. You have Cutler, give him weapons. Cutler, Forte, Vjack, Floyd, Davis has the making of a special O.

 

Really at the end of the day, give me one great WR and i will shut up about O

Isn't Nelson like 6'3? I understand the point about wanting diff style receivers but I don't think it has to be done like that. You look at Dallas' WR's. Dez Bryant is a big physical receiver and so is Miles Austin. They are doing fine. I think the biggest thing is speed. What you can't have is two slow guys. If the guy is skilled enough and just happens to be 6'4 then I don't think just because you already have one tall guy you automatically can't have another.

 

I don't know how fast Bowe is. I think he is considerably faster than Vincent Jackson and Marcus Colston, but if we are talking about guys like Jeffery and Floyd, that's where the speed factor comes in to play. I'm not sure you want to pair Jackson with Floyd or Jeffery because keep in mind, Earl Bennett will be our #3 guy and he's not going to beat anybody down field either. Now, if either Floyd or Jeffery had Calvin Johnson like speed to go along with their size, then pairing two big guys up would not be a problem.

[jason]

How differnt are GB's WR???? Jenning, Driver, Nelson, Jones??? Not too different so i guess it is ok to have similar WR types. You know what type of WR i want???

 

Good ones, I dont care if they are the same height, speed etc. as long as they are good im happy. right now we have a bunch of similar crappy wr's. Bennet being the best option and there ya go, there is your balance. Vjac, Floyd and Bennet

 

I did miss the point of having two of the same wr types. You say it is Madden stuff, i say you are wrong, they did it in AZ, they are doing it in ATL. There are many teams over the history of the NFL that have had similar typed WR. If the Bears grab a decent OL FA and Vjack then i would be ok with taking Jeffrey or Floyd in the first round especially if they are the best option out there. By doing a Vjac and Floyd or Jeffrey combo the Bears would be done dealing with needing a WR for a long time. WE already have Bennet locked up for a long time. You have Cutler, give him weapons. Cutler, Forte, Vjack, Floyd, Davis has the making of a special O.

 

Really at the end of the day, give me one great WR and i will shut up about O

 

Green Bay is the anomaly. They have had multiple WRs who have been good for a very long time. It's something difficult to pin down, but they always manage to have a wealth of WR talent. They draft it, cultivate it, coach it, and put everything together in an offensive system that consistently produces passing yards and TDs. Believe me, I would LOVE to have the Green Bay offense, WRs, their focus on offense. It's the entire reason I'm about the only one on the board who liked Martz and Crowton. I'm desperate for offensive success. I'm a dehydrated guy crawling through the desert hoping to get an oasis of offense. Anything to get the Bears out of the 1920s of offense where it's all based on trying to shorten the game. I'd love to see the Bears pass for 4000 yards when there are multiple QBs throwing for 5000!

 

With all that said, I think this comes down to the age old debate on this board of OL vs. WR. If the Bears invest in VJax and get Floyd in the first, it matters not if Cutler is on his ass half the game and can't call any plays that require more than a 3 step drop. Which is why I would much rather see the OL get turned into a juggernaut. Then it becomes a matter of finding athletes. Give Cutler enough time behind the OL and I believe the guys we have now would get open. This is the NFL, and these guys can get open if the play gets time to develop. In recent years, the plays have been very short because the QB couldn't stand in the pocket. There were very few times this year that Cutler got to sit in the pocket and make second and third reads when the #1 guy wasn't open. Get him that #1, and the others are suddenly open a lot more, but Cutler may not have time to get to them if the #1 is covered. Get him that OL, and if the #1 is not open, Cutler has time to find the other guys. Which is the entrie reason I think the Bears absolutely have to get a LT in FA (don't really know of one), or try their damnedest to get one in the first.

 

It's really a matter of preference. The Bears haven't tried to get an awesome set of WRs in a long time, but the same holds true for OL. I just believe the latter is more likely to produce success. It'd be fun to watch VJax and Floyd running routes for the Bears, but I think one of the two would get wasted because Cutler wouldn't have adequate time to throw.

[jason]

Isn't Nelson like 6'3? I understand the point about wanting diff style receivers but I don't think it has to be done like that. You look at Dallas' WR's. Dez Bryant is a big physical receiver and so is Miles Austin. They are doing fine. I think the biggest thing is speed. What you can't have is two slow guys. If the guy is skilled enough and just happens to be 6'4 then I don't think just because you already have one tall guy you automatically can't have another.

 

I don't know how fast Bowe is. I think he is considerably faster than Vincent Jackson and Marcus Colston, but if we are talking about guys like Jeffery and Floyd, that's where the speed factor comes in to play. I'm not sure you want to pair Jackson with Floyd or Jeffery because keep in mind, Earl Bennett will be our #3 guy and he's not going to beat anybody down field either. Now, if either Floyd or Jeffery had Calvin Johnson like speed to go along with their size, then pairing two big guys up would not be a problem.

 

You could be right. It could all have to do with speed. OR maybe thought of differently, the ability to get open. Jerry Rice was never considered a burner, but he sure as hell got open. Because if it were speed, then it would be difficult to explain the lack of success with Knox and Hester, two guys with world class speed. Both are faster than VJax or Bowe.

[Stinger226]

You could be right. It could all have to do with speed. OR maybe thought of differently, the ability to get open. Jerry Rice was never considered a burner, but he sure as hell got open. Because if it were speed, then it would be difficult to explain the lack of success with Knox and Hester, two guys with world class speed. Both are faster than VJax or Bowe.

Bowe will be franchised, Buffalo will either franchise the LT or WR, I say we go after the one they leave available. Demetri Bell is the LT , or Stevie Johnson.

[WheresMyronBaker]

Jay Cutler's body probably disagrees with the last part.

 

 

Don't forget Knox's part in Jay's broken body.

[Bears4Ever_34]

You could be right. It could all have to do with speed. OR maybe thought of differently, the ability to get open. Jerry Rice was never considered a burner, but he sure as hell got open. Because if it were speed, then it would be difficult to explain the lack of success with Knox and Hester, two guys with world class speed. Both are faster than VJax or Bowe.

You have to be able to put it all together though. Speed will only get you so far. It's the reason Hester can be so successful as an NFL punt/kick returner and not as a WR. He simply doesn't have the skills outside of his elite speed to be able to do much of anything offensively, and when he does, it's sporadic. Knox is very similar. But when you are fitting together a team and you have two players that are 6'3 and above, Ideally you'd like atleast one guy to have the speed to get behind the defense and be able to get YAC. If you don't, then you wont have an explosive offense and teams will be able to creep that extra safety inside more often instead of keeping a guy out there to make sure you don't beat them deep.

[jason]

You have to be able to put it all together though. Speed will only get you so far. It's the reason Hester can be so successful as an NFL punt/kick returner and not as a WR. He simply doesn't have the skills outside of his elite speed to be able to do much of anything offensively, and when he does, it's sporadic. Knox is very similar. But when you are fitting together a team and you have two players that are 6'3 and above, Ideally you'd like atleast one guy to have the speed to get behind the defense and be able to get YAC. If you don't, then you wont have an explosive offense and teams will be able to creep that extra safety inside more often instead of keeping a guy out there to make sure you don't beat them deep.

 

Which is why I changed your original point - that speed is the key - to something a little different. If it were all about speed, the Bears would have one of the top WR corp in the NFL with Hester and Knox leading the way. But we all know that's only part of the picture. Give me Steve Largent and Hines Ward any day.