Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 PFT reported earlier that Green Bay is likely to cut Chad Clifton and restructure Donald Driver's deal. I know Clifton is 35, but he'd be an instant upgrade at LT. Perhaps this way, they can get LT and WR done in FA and focus on the D in the draft. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesson44 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 PFT reported earlier that Green Bay is likely to cut Chad Clifton and restructure Donald Driver's deal. I know Clifton is 35, but he'd be an instant upgrade at LT. Perhaps this way, they can get LT and WR done in FA and focus on the D in the draft. Just a thought. Well stop thinking about it...he sucks like Webb and he is injury prone so we might get nothing out of him. We need to go after D.Bell from the Bills if you want to get a LT in the FA marget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 I remember him getting blown up by Warren Sapp years ago. I think he is way past his prime. Given the choice between the two, I would rather see what Webb can do with an entire off season with the team. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 I remember him getting blown up by Warren Sapp years ago. I think he is way past his prime. Given the choice between the two, I would rather see what Webb can do with an entire off season with the team. Peace Even still, the Bears absolutely need someone who can step in at the tackle spot, at least to cover the position in the case of injury. Omiyale cannot be that person. A 1-2 year experienced veteran might be an acceptable option, especially if you're not expecting him to play all 16 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Was just reading the below referenced link about the top 32 LTs currently. And oddl enough Webb isn't #32. (Actually 28th). The interesting comment they make about him is first they say he has "great lateral agility" but in a few other places note he has no or little lateral mobility...confusing. But to me he reflects almost what youd expect from a second year player in his position. And "they" suggest he would be better at RT. Sounds reasonable to me. Especially since I'm still convinced Williams needs to prove himself at LT now. http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/10618...-tackles/page/6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Was just reading the below referenced link about the top 32 LTs currently. And oddl enough Webb isn't #32. (Actually 28th). The interesting comment they make about him is first they say he has "great lateral agility" but in a few other places note he has no or little lateral mobility...confusing. But to me he reflects almost what youd expect from a second year player in his position. And "they" suggest he would be better at RT. Sounds reasonable to me. Especially since I'm still convinced Williams needs to prove himself at LT now. http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/10618...-tackles/page/6 If Williams is moving back to LT, then Webb is moving to the bench, because Gabe Carimi is not going to the bench unless he's hurt again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockren Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Clifton has been playing on one leg the past 4 or 5 years....the output he has given has been incredible. I'd pass without even considering him in regards tp his age/health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Clifton has been playing on one leg the past 4 or 5 years....the output he has given has been incredible. I'd pass without even considering him in regards tp his age/health. I would rather see Carimi go to the LT spot and draft a RT than see Williams or Webb at either spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockren Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I would rather see Carimi go to the LT spot and draft a RT than see Williams or Webb at either spot. I believe the Bears are just quoting the company line and saying they believe Webb to be at least "good enough" to be their LT. The Bears can actually put teeth into that statement as they believed Webb to be their starting LT in the off-season last year and didn't really try to upgrade at all while keeping him the LT the entire year. With what is actually available in FA and what the Bears already have in Webb....I don't see the appeal in adding a LT via FA. The ideal and more likely series of moves would be to add one of the #1 WRs on the market via FA and hope a Mike Adams type falls to them at #19. The Bears could have that Mike Adams type battle it out with Webb for the starting LT spot. Of course Adams would eventually be the LT, but in case he isn't ready to be the starting LT W1- that would be okay. The Bears could then allow Louis to battle it out with Carimi for the starting RT spot. Again, of course Carimi would be the favorite....but health may prevent that and Louis filled in very nicely and I wouldn't mind Louis being our starting RT coming into next season. However, I would prefer Louis inside at RG with Carimi being our cornerstone on the right side for the next ten years. LT- Mike Adams type, LG- Williams, C- Garza, RG- Louis, RT- Carimi with Spencer being the backup C/G and Webb being a backup swing T. I wouldn't hate this lineup all that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 PFT reported earlier that Green Bay is likely to cut Chad Clifton and restructure Donald Driver's deal. I know Clifton is 35, but he'd be an instant upgrade at LT. Perhaps this way, they can get LT and WR done in FA and focus on the D in the draft. Just a thought. I would hate that for at least two reasons: 1. Clifton is barely an upgrade because he's injury prone, old, and MAYBE has a year or two left. 2. It would give Lovie a reason to convince Emery to ignore the offense for yet another year. If they get Clifton and a WR in FA, they should still spend the first two picks on LT and WR. But that would never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Was just reading the below referenced link about the top 32 LTs currently. And oddl enough Webb isn't #32. (Actually 28th). The interesting comment they make about him is first they say he has "great lateral agility" but in a few other places note he has no or little lateral mobility...confusing. But to me he reflects almost what youd expect from a second year player in his position. And "they" suggest he would be better at RT. Sounds reasonable to me. Especially since I'm still convinced Williams needs to prove himself at LT now. http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/10618...-tackles/page/6 I've been saying this for a little while now. Unless a LT is drafted in the first or the second, the OL should be on of the four: Williams - Rookie/FA - Garza - Louis - Carimi Williams - Garza - Rookie/FA - Louis - Carimi Carimi - Williams - Garza - Rookie/FA - Louis Carimi - Williams - Rookie/FA - Garza - Louis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I've been saying this for a little while now. Unless a LT is drafted in the first or the second, the OL should be on of the four: Williams - Rookie/FA - Garza - Louis - Carimi Williams - Garza - Rookie/FA - Louis - Carimi Carimi - Williams - Garza - Rookie/FA - Louis Carimi - Williams - Rookie/FA - Garza - Louis Louis played well at guard but not so much at RT. I dont want to see Omiyale on the team and Webb as a starter. I would be ok with Carimi at LT if we have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I've been saying this for a little while now. Unless a LT is drafted in the first or the second, the OL should be on of the four: Williams - Rookie/FA - Garza - Louis - Carimi Williams - Garza - Rookie/FA - Louis - Carimi Carimi - Williams - Garza - Rookie/FA - Louis Carimi - Williams - Rookie/FA - Garza - Louis What makes you think Chris Williams should be the starting LT? I missed what you said previously. What everyone is ignoring in this LT debate is that the Bears seem to be really high on Webb. I get the impression we feel he's the future at the position. I disagree with this, I'm just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 What everyone is ignoring in this LT debate is that the Bears seem to be really high on Webb. I get the impression we feel he's the future at the position. I disagree with this, I'm just saying. I keep adding that caveat when I talk about the Tackle position, but even if they really like Webb and intend to start him this year, they absolutely need help at that position. Both to push Webb and, more importantly, to remove Omiyale. Omiyale is literally stealing money. The Bears were in a position last year where their backup tackle was so bad that it looked like a good option to them to move their starting RG to RT and put in their backup Guard as a starter instead of playing their backup tackle. That's inexcusable. If they really want to give Webb a chance, then maybe a guy like McNeil (sp?) from the Chargers would make a ton of sense, because he could be gotten for a discount and the bears wouldn't necessarily need him to be ready to play on day 1, so he could start off the season on the recovery path and then be ready if needed. Or, alternatively, a guy who might n ot be ready to play a full season but could be effective in a few games or a half season...like Clifton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 What makes you think Chris Williams should be the starting LT? I missed what you said previously. What everyone is ignoring in this LT debate is that the Bears seem to be really high on Webb. I get the impression we feel he's the future at the position. I disagree with this, I'm just saying. I don't necessarily think he's great at LT, but he's a significant improvement over that scrub Webb. Also, he was drafted as a LT, and because of all the OL turmoil and his injury, I don't really believe he was given a clear look at the position. Meanwhile, Webb has been given WAY more of a look than he should have been given, based entirely on Tice jerking off every time someone mentions Webb's measurables. Unfortunately, I think your last statement is probably right. They're high on Webb, for whatever freaking reason, because his performance surely doesn't match up with their evaluation. Ideally, Webb is a backup OT, and the two guys highly drafted as OTs (Williams & Carimi) should be starting at both ends. But that's just too much common sense for Lovie and crew, they'd rather draft a first round OT, move him to OG, and put in a 7th rounder at the most important position on offense other than QB. Genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 You blame Lovie, but I get the impression Martz & Lovie both took Tice's advice on who to play where. What's mind boggling is that after Carimi was hurt and Omiyale failed, Lance Louis was switched to RT. Even though Chris Williams had the more ideal size and experience at the position. If we didn't move him then, why move him now? I don't necessarily think he's great at LT, but he's a significant improvement over that scrub Webb. Also, he was drafted as a LT, and because of all the OL turmoil and his injury, I don't really believe he was given a clear look at the position. Meanwhile, Webb has been given WAY more of a look than he should have been given, based entirely on Tice jerking off every time someone mentions Webb's measurables. Unfortunately, I think your last statement is probably right. They're high on Webb, for whatever freaking reason, because his performance surely doesn't match up with their evaluation. Ideally, Webb is a backup OT, and the two guys highly drafted as OTs (Williams & Carimi) should be starting at both ends. But that's just too much common sense for Lovie and crew, they'd rather draft a first round OT, move him to OG, and put in a 7th rounder at the most important position on offense other than QB. Genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 You blame Lovie, but I get the impression Martz & Lovie both took Tice's advice on who to play where. What's mind boggling is that after Carimi was hurt and Omiyale failed, Lance Louis was switched to RT. Even though Chris Williams had the more ideal size and experience at the position. If we didn't move him then, why move him now? I'm not saying it will happen, but it should happen. You're probably right that Tice won't want to backtrack on his previous decision now that he has even more power in regards to who starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I don't necessarily think he's great at LT, but he's a significant improvement over that scrub Webb. Also, he was drafted as a LT, and because of all the OL turmoil and his injury, I don't really believe he was given a clear look at the position. Meanwhile, Webb has been given WAY more of a look than he should have been given, based entirely on Tice jerking off every time someone mentions Webb's measurables. Unfortunately, I think your last statement is probably right. They're high on Webb, for whatever freaking reason, because his performance surely doesn't match up with their evaluation. Ideally, Webb is a backup OT, and the two guys highly drafted as OTs (Williams & Carimi) should be starting at both ends. But that's just too much common sense for Lovie and crew, they'd rather draft a first round OT, move him to OG, and put in a 7th rounder at the most important position on offense other than QB. Genius. I realize Williams did get that much time as a starting LT with the Bears, but if Tice thought he was better than Webb, don't you think he would have started him there? Or do you think Tice thought that Williams was the best LT, but that he was also the best guard option and when you factored all things in, he was better with Williams at guard and Webb at tackle cause he didn't think he had any competent guards? I'm just asking cause I'm pretty sure if Tice thought Williams was better than Webb, we would have seen him there. And I already know what you think of Webb at LT, so what does that say about what Tice thinks of Williams as a LT. Williams was a pretty good guard though (showed nice potential and was a good run blocker). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I realize Williams did get that much time as a starting LT with the Bears, but if Tice thought he was better than Webb, don't you think he would have started him there? Or do you think Tice thought that Williams was the best LT, but that he was also the best guard option and when you factored all things in, he was better with Williams at guard and Webb at tackle cause he didn't think he had any competent guards? I'm just asking cause I'm pretty sure if Tice thought Williams was better than Webb, we would have seen him there. And I already know what you think of Webb at LT, so what does that say about what Tice thinks of Williams as a LT. Williams was a pretty good guard though (showed nice potential and was a good run blocker). I think your second question is exactly right. Tice saw Webb as a very talented person who could fill holes, who could play multiple positions. Because of that, he plugged in Williams at G because there was a severe absence of talent there. And since JA gave him shit to work with, Tice figured he had to actually find a way to use the late round guys. The natural result? Put Webb in the only place he has even minimal potential, and put the versatile Williams at the gaping LG hole. In other words, Tice had 1 thumb to plug two holes. He put his thumb in the hole closest to the QB, and used whatever he had lying around to plug the other hole. Clearly the water has poured through. On top of that, however, is the fact that Tice sort of staked his reputation on Webb, gushing about how hard he hit the blocking sled and chipped his future coach's tooth. I really think Tice wants to follow through on Webb's initial praise, make his mark, and earn the reputation the announcers gave him this year by continually saying how well he had done with the OL despite it playing like shit. Turning a 7th rounder into a competent starter helps that cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think your second question is exactly right. Tice saw Webb as a very talented person who could fill holes, who could play multiple positions. Because of that, he plugged in Williams at G because there was a severe absence of talent there. And since JA gave him shit to work with, Tice figured he had to actually find a way to use the late round guys. The natural result? Put Webb in the only place he has even minimal potential, and put the versatile Williams at the gaping LG hole. In other words, Tice had 1 thumb to plug two holes. He put his thumb in the hole closest to the QB, and used whatever he had lying around to plug the other hole. Clearly the water has poured through. On top of that, however, is the fact that Tice sort of staked his reputation on Webb, gushing about how hard he hit the blocking sled and chipped his future coach's tooth. I really think Tice wants to follow through on Webb's initial praise, make his mark, and earn the reputation the announcers gave him this year by continually saying how well he had done with the OL despite it playing like shit. Turning a 7th rounder into a competent starter helps that cause. To be fair, while the Bears oline was never great, most statistics had it being better than horrible and improving. I believe a few key statistics had them in the top 15-20 range prior to Cutler going down (+ the combination of Williams/Carimi). Again, this isn't an indicationg the oline was playing great, rather, that it had showed some serious progress under Tice (especially when compared to the overall talent level). But I can definitely agree with the above thoughts and if that is how the Bears feel (and they think Williams can play tackle), than I could see the team spending money at guard. $45M is a ton to spend on a guard though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 To be fair, while the Bears oline was never great, most statistics had it being better than horrible and improving. I believe a few key statistics had them in the top 15-20 range prior to Cutler going down (+ the combination of Williams/Carimi). Again, this isn't an indicationg the oline was playing great, rather, that it had showed some serious progress under Tice (especially when compared to the overall talent level). But I can definitely agree with the above thoughts and if that is how the Bears feel (and they think Williams can play tackle), than I could see the team spending money at guard. $45M is a ton to spend on a guard though. Don't forget...Carimi basically didn't play for them this year. So the "Prior to Cutler going down" numbers were for the Webb/Williams/Garza/Louis/Omifail/Spencer lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Don't forget...Carimi basically didn't play for them this year. So the "Prior to Cutler going down" numbers were for the Webb/Williams/Garza/Louis/Omifail/Spencer lineup. Remember that quite well and I completely agree. The Bears basically got nothing out of Carimi and to be frank, we don't know anything about Gabe. He got very little practice time and Tice apparently liked him enough that he called him our best olineman. I'm hoping he'll be 100% and this injury will be behind him (who knows though) and he should have a full off-season to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I don't necessarily think he's great at LT, but he's a significant improvement over that scrub Webb. Also, he was drafted as a LT, and because of all the OL turmoil and his injury, I don't really believe he was given a clear look at the position. Meanwhile, Webb has been given WAY more of a look than he should have been given, based entirely on Tice jerking off every time someone mentions Webb's measurables. Unfortunately, I think your last statement is probably right. They're high on Webb, for whatever freaking reason, because his performance surely doesn't match up with their evaluation. Ideally, Webb is a backup OT, and the two guys highly drafted as OTs (Williams & Carimi) should be starting at both ends. But that's just too much common sense for Lovie and crew, they'd rather draft a first round OT, move him to OG, and put in a 7th rounder at the most important position on offense other than QB. Genius. I think they were high on Webb, because they didn't have options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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