Vincent Jackson a Bears target?

[Stinger226]

Jackson is actually more similar to Berrian than you guys might think. He is primarily known as a deep threat and isn't necessarily known for being a strong slot/middle of the field receiver. That said, a lot of his catches are for first downs, but he isn't exactly the type of guy you throw the ball to at 3rd down and know the chain is moving (vs. a TO in their prime for example, that said, there aren't many players like that). Jackson is not a very strong fundemental wideout, he relies heavily on his pure physical athletism and is lazy which makes me extremely concerned a year or two down the road when he loses that speed (he'll be playing at age 29 this year).

I am leaning your way now, I wanted him but am thinking for a couple of mil less we can have Colston or 5 mill less Robinson. The problem is not he wont make our team better, but trust isnt there and the money will be 10 to 12 mil. I think we can do a better valve pick for close to same results.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I am leaning your way now, I wanted him but am thinking for a couple of mil less we can have Colston or 5 mill less Robinson. The problem is not he wont make our team better, but trust isnt there and the money will be 10 to 12 mil. I think we can do a better valve pick for close to same results.

Robinson is interesting. Did he really finally break out or is he more of a fluke. He has great athletic skills so you have to like his tools, but the question is why did he get cut and struggle so much previously. The issue i have with Colston is he is more of a slot guy so I wonder how the Bears would do having there 2 best wideouts being slot guys (e.g., Bennett & Colston). That said, depending on the system the Bears run, you have those two guys, and add a speed guy like Hill (or Wright) on the outside and combine that with Hester/Knox and it wouldn't be that bad.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I am leaning your way now, I wanted him but am thinking for a couple of mil less we can have Colston or 5 mill less Robinson. The problem is not he wont make our team better, but trust isnt there and the money will be 10 to 12 mil. I think we can do a better valve pick for close to same results.

I also think we'd be better spending that money on an impact DE than a wideout who makes us better but isn't like a Fitz, etc. I think in FA you are best finding bargains who slide or signing studs. Paying big money to guys that are in between can be dangerous, unless it is to fill the need to make the superbowl. And I think some would argue that Vjax could do that.

[balta1701-A]

I also think we'd be better spending that money on an impact DE than a wideout who makes us better but isn't like a Fitz, etc. I think in FA you are best finding bargains who slide or signing studs. Paying big money to guys that are in between can be dangerous, unless it is to fill the need to make the superbowl. And I think some would argue that Vjax could do that.

IMO, if the Bears don't get better play out of their wideouts and offensive line, they will not make the super bowl even if the D-Line plays better, while they can make the super bowl if they get a similar level of performance out of their D-line but better O-Line and WR performance.

[madlithuanian]

I swear I feel like I'm waffling more on this issue than a damn politician these past few days!

 

I would really want V-Jack, but so much of what's being brought up, including the hefty price tag worries me. Colston would obviously be the great alternative.

 

However, the more and more I think about things, the more I like the Mario idea. With Peppers getting older, we'd have a stud in place to eventually replace him. And in the meantime, we'd after potentially the best ends in football that could even be more amazing than what we saw in '85...

 

I'll put the koolaid glass down and contemplate waffling again on this any moment now...

 

But bottom line, we are in a position to bring in at least one big star...and we can justify as least 3 moves that would make us better.

 

I also think we'd be better spending that money on an impact DE than a wideout who makes us better but isn't like a Fitz, etc. I think in FA you are best finding bargains who slide or signing studs. Paying big money to guys that are in between can be dangerous, unless it is to fill the need to make the superbowl. And I think some would argue that Vjax could do that.

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

IMO, if the Bears don't get better play out of their wideouts and offensive line, they will not make the super bowl even if the D-Line plays better, while they can make the super bowl if they get a similar level of performance out of their D-line but better O-Line and WR performance.

I'd argue you can upgrade the wideout position even after signing Mike Williams. I'd rather have Williams and Garcon or Wayne + a lesser wideout than Vjax and some garbage. Just my personal 2 cents. Especially since this is a deep wideout draft so they should be able to identify talent in the draft as well.

[Stinger226]

Robinson is interesting. Did he really finally break out or is he more of a fluke. He has great athletic skills so you have to like his tools, but the question is why did he get cut and struggle so much previously. The issue i have with Colston is he is more of a slot guy so I wonder how the Bears would do having there 2 best wideouts being slot guys (e.g., Bennett & Colston). That said, depending on the system the Bears run, you have those two guys, and add a speed guy like Hill (or Wright) on the outside and combine that with Hester/Knox and it wouldn't be that bad.

Will LR that is a risk you take but for 1/2 the money Jackson gets. The slot wr in their system was Lance Moore. At 6-4 225 I am not with his size , he would be considered a slot wr, even thou on some of their formations he did line up there. In 86 games he average 5.5 rec. , 14 ypc, 73 ypg, and .52 TDs. He has been consistent except for a few knee issues. I think I would trust him more than Jackson for 2 to 3 mil less.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I'd argue you can upgrade the wideout position even after signing Mike Williams. I'd rather have Williams and Garcon or Wayne + a lesser wideout than Vjax and some garbage. Just my personal 2 cents. Especially since this is a deep wideout draft so they should be able to identify talent in the draft as well.

Wayne is going where Manning goes, and Garcon might even do the same.

 

On that note, there is no one to sign if they don't sign Jackson or Colston.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Wayne is going where Manning goes, and Garcon might even do the same.

 

On that note, there is no one to sign if they don't sign Jackson or Colston.

Meachem, Manningham, Eddie Royal, Lauront Robinson. Definitely no one the caliber of the above players, but there are some options.

[madlithuanian]

None of those are solutions. Helpful hands, but not what we really need. Anyone other than Colston or Jackson will be considered a whiff by Emery...at least on paper. Barring, of course, if he gets Mario Williams.

 

We simply need one of three of those guys in order for FA to not appear to be a bust. Time will tell, but at the moment and on paper, that's how it appears.

 

 

Meachem, Manningham, Eddie Royal, Lauront Robinson. Definitely no one the caliber of the above players, but there are some options.

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

None of those are solutions. Helpful hands, but not what we really need. Anyone other than Colston or Jackson will be considered a whiff by Emery...at least on paper. Barring, of course, if he gets Mario Williams.

 

We simply need one of three of those guys in order for FA to not appear to be a bust. Time will tell, but at the moment and on paper, that's how it appears.

I think if you get other quality individuals, than it works well. Especially if you add 2 of the lesser wideouts plus draft a wideout early and sign a TE. Add in a CB and a tackle or a CB and a DE and to me that is a pretty damn good off-season. One in which your team has not only added more talent, but has done so in multiple areas.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

None of those are solutions. Helpful hands, but not what we really need. Anyone other than Colston or Jackson will be considered a whiff by Emery...at least on paper. Barring, of course, if he gets Mario Williams.

 

We simply need one of three of those guys in order for FA to not appear to be a bust. Time will tell, but at the moment and on paper, that's how it appears.

 

Agree Mad, we need something above what we have to improve otherwise its a whiff.

 

WR depth chart:

Earl Bennett

Devin Hester

Dane Sanzenbacher

(Johnny Knox- but if he does return it'll be middle of the year-so doubtful)

[Stinger226]

Agree Mad, we need something above what we have to improve otherwise its a whiff.

 

WR depth chart:

Earl Bennett

Devin Hester

Dane Sanzenbacher

(Johnny Knox- but if he does return it'll be middle of the year-so doubtful)

I would want either one, but prefer Colston. The fact exists that we might not get one, so we need to improve and hope we can hit gold with a draft pick.

[bradjock]

I'd say there are other combinations that would work. If we get a top tier o-lineman, add Carlson . . .

 

I keep going back to how we passed on so many good players over the years, but we went balls out and got Peppers and Cutler when it mattered. V-Jack is a good player but he's not a game changer. Mario Williams on the other hand . . .

 

None of those are solutions. Helpful hands, but not what we really need. Anyone other than Colston or Jackson will be considered a whiff by Emery...at least on paper. Barring, of course, if he gets Mario Williams.

 

We simply need one of three of those guys in order for FA to not appear to be a bust. Time will tell, but at the moment and on paper, that's how it appears.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I'm not sure what it is but I'm not liking this idea of V Jax on the team. Could it be the recent spate of injuries or contractual issues? Is there the possibility that he is a bad influence in the locker room? Like I said, I can't put my finger on it but IMHO, the Bears might want to reconsider going for him.

[jason]

None of those are solutions. Helpful hands, but not what we really need. Anyone other than Colston or Jackson will be considered a whiff by Emery...at least on paper. Barring, of course, if he gets Mario Williams.

 

We simply need one of three of those guys in order for FA to not appear to be a bust. Time will tell, but at the moment and on paper, that's how it appears.

 

Completely agreed.

 

Meachem, Manningham, Eddie Royal, and Laurent Robinson just add more pu-pu to the pu-pu platter of WRs. The only one out of the group that actually interests me somewhat is Meachem. But that's mostly on the intuition I have regarding him being in a prolific offense that spreads the ball around, yet he got decent catch numbers, and the fact that he has world-class speed. In the end he sounds a lot like Knox and/or Hester, but I wonder if he could do better and produce more if he were on an offense that didn't run so well with so many pass-catching options.

 

Colston or VJax are the only two FA WRs that really make a lot of sense. Otherwise it's the old fantasy football dilemma of having a bunch of #2 and #3 guys who get you 50yds per week while losing to the team that has 2 or 3 top-dogs who get 100yds and a TD.

[balta1701-A]

Completely agreed.

 

Meachem, Manningham, Eddie Royal, and Laurent Robinson just add more pu-pu to the pu-pu platter of WRs. The only one out of the group that actually interests me somewhat is Meachem. But that's mostly on the intuition I have regarding him being in a prolific offense that spreads the ball around, yet he got decent catch numbers, and the fact that he has world-class speed. In the end he sounds a lot like Knox and/or Hester, but I wonder if he could do better and produce more if he were on an offense that didn't run so well with so many pass-catching options.

 

Colston or VJax are the only two FA WRs that really make a lot of sense. Otherwise it's the old fantasy football dilemma of having a bunch of #2 and #3 guys who get you 50yds per week while losing to the team that has 2 or 3 top-dogs who get 100yds and a TD.

You say the bold like the bold would be a bad thing though. The Bears WR's are so weak, so undermanned, that even doing that would be a substantial upgrade.

 

That said, yes, Colston and VJax still need to be the #1 and #1a targets in some order, because the upgrade of a legit #1 would be monstrous.

 

[jason]

You say the bold like the bold would be a bad thing though. The Bears WR's are so weak, so undermanned, that even doing that would be a substantial upgrade.

 

That said, yes, Colston and VJax still need to be the #1 and #1a targets in some order, because the upgrade of a legit #1 would be monstrous.

 

I don't necessarily think it's bad in terms of depth, but it's not the right move. And I don't necessarily agree that any of those guys would be a substantial upgrade over Bennett, Hester, Knox, and Williams.

 

Meachem (40/620/6) = Knox (37/727/2)

Royal (19/155/1) = Hester (26/369/1)

Manningham (39/523/4) = Williams (37/507/2)

Robinson (54/858/11) Bennett (43/481/1)

 

The only one that doesn't make sense is Robinson and Bennett, mostly because I couldn't think of a better way for the FA WRs to align with the Bears' WRs. But Robinson doesn't interest me all that much. Despite his size and speed, he's very injury prone and I think he just got lucky last year. The stars aligned. The minute he gets sitned it wouldn't surprise me if he got hurt and turned into a waste of money. Otherwise, what upgrades have the others really provided?

[balta1701-A]

I don't necessarily think it's bad in terms of depth, but it's not the right move. And I don't necessarily agree that any of those guys would be a substantial upgrade over Bennett, Hester, Knox, and Williams.

 

Meachem (40/620/6) = Knox (37/727/2)

Royal (19/155/1) = Hester (26/369/1)

Manningham (39/523/4) = Williams (37/507/2)

Robinson (54/858/11) Bennett (43/481/1)

 

The only one that doesn't make sense is Robinson and Bennett, mostly because I couldn't think of a better way for the FA WRs to align with the Bears' WRs. But Robinson doesn't interest me all that much. Despite his size and speed, he's very injury prone and I think he just got lucky last year. The stars aligned. The minute he gets sitned it wouldn't surprise me if he got hurt and turned into a waste of money. Otherwise, what upgrades have the others really provided?

In some of those you have to consider where they're playing though when you compare their numbers. Meachem and Manningham were what, the 3rd options on their clubs, while Williams was the first option supposedly on the Bears? Royal had what, the Tebow throwing to him? Presumably if the Bears sign any of them, they immediately become Cutler's best target.

 

That said, yes, signing a legit WR is still the priority and should be the only reasonable option.

[Wesson44]

In some of those you have to consider where they're playing though when you compare their numbers. Meachem and Manningham were what, the 3rd options on their clubs, while Williams was the first option supposedly on the Bears? Royal had what, the Tebow throwing to him? Presumably if the Bears sign any of them, they immediately become Cutler's best target.

 

That said, yes, signing a legit WR is still the priority and should be the only reasonable option.

So if you compared that group 152 catches for 2156 yards and 22 TD's to our group with 153 catchs, 2084 yards and 6 TD'S who is more productive? 22 TD'"s to 6 is a big difference in winning and losing games. Hell Robonson alone beat out all of our WR's with his 54/858/11

[Pixote]

Royal would be interesting because he certainly had a great year with Cutler. He would not be a #1 but would be an excellent option for Cutler as they seemed to work well together in the past. Heck, they were together when our new QB coach was working with the Denver offense, right?

 

Still need a "Beast" as a number one option, but we need more quality receivers to go along with the #1 so Royal might just be a cheap option that would work out???

[balta1701-A]

Still need a "Beast" as a number one option, but we need more quality receivers to go along with the #1 so Royal might just be a cheap option that would work out???

I'd have zero issues with doing so.

 

But, if you bring in 2 FA WR's, including a #1, I don't want to see the 19th pick spent bringing in a WR. If you're drafting one, grab one in the 3rd round who you plan to bury for a year or two while Royal gets most of the playing time.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Completely agreed.

 

Meachem, Manningham, Eddie Royal, and Laurent Robinson just add more pu-pu to the pu-pu platter of WRs. The only one out of the group that actually interests me somewhat is Meachem. But that's mostly on the intuition I have regarding him being in a prolific offense that spreads the ball around, yet he got decent catch numbers, and the fact that he has world-class speed. In the end he sounds a lot like Knox and/or Hester, but I wonder if he could do better and produce more if he were on an offense that didn't run so well with so many pass-catching options.

 

Colston or VJax are the only two FA WRs that really make a lot of sense. Otherwise it's the old fantasy football dilemma of having a bunch of #2 and #3 guys who get you 50yds per week while losing to the team that has 2 or 3 top-dogs who get 100yds and a TD.

Meachem also has very very few drops during his career. I've seen a couple article who indicate that NFL scouts think Meachem is a better bit to succeed outside of New Orleans than Colston. Apparently there are quite a few scouts (based upon some articles I've read) who think Colston is more of a system guy where as Meachem is the type of guy who should excel in the typical pro sets ran in the NFL. I think Meachem would be a really solid signing. Dude is talented and I'm sick of the Bears having this untalented hacks at the position.

 

I'd probably argue that 3 of the 4 wideouts listed above, whether pu-pu or not, are better than the Bears wideouts (maybe with the exception of Bennett but I base a lot of Bennett on what he did with Cutler when healthy; his injury issues have to be something you worry about though).

[jason]

In some of those you have to consider where they're playing though when you compare their numbers. Meachem and Manningham were what, the 3rd options on their clubs, while Williams was the first option supposedly on the Bears? Royal had what, the Tebow throwing to him? Presumably if the Bears sign any of them, they immediately become Cutler's best target.

 

That said, yes, signing a legit WR is still the priority and should be the only reasonable option.

 

Agreed. On the same token, you have to consider who I'm comparing them to. I'm comparing to the Bears' WRs and the Bears' offense with the Bears' OL and the changes they've encountered over the last several years.

[jason]

So if you compared that group 152 catches for 2156 yards and 22 TD's to our group with 153 catchs, 2084 yards and 6 TD'S who is more productive? 22 TD'"s to 6 is a big difference in winning and losing games. Hell Robonson alone beat out all of our WR's with his 54/858/11

 

Yes, and I see it as a valid comparison. I believe Robinson had a fluke year. Take that away and the numbers are VERY close, the players are VERY similar, and I'm not sure any of them are actual upgrades. You have to figure that a good player is a good player on any team. And if these guys were studs, they would have emerged as more than the #2-#4 guys that they are.