Bears and Patriots talking about Matt Forte

[bradjock]

Everybody is ignoring the Pats would have to sign Forte to a huge deal or worry about a hold-out. At least 20+ million guaranteed. The Patriots have been notorious at having several backs at a bargain price. Now they are going to give up two good picks plus huge money for Forte? I don't see it. No way.

 

Forte from all reports is asking for something the Bears want no part of. Ted Phillips stated that his contract was on par with RB contracts today.

 

 

 

And from everything Phillips said they are quite a bit apart.

 

 

 

It appears the Bear put allot incentives in the contract. That with little guarantees could make it a contention for Forte.. The Bears did the right thing signing Bush . Forte may hold out. If so Trade him and draft a rookie to go along with Bush.

 

 

Those quotes form the trib site

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...,1077310.column

 

[Stinger226]

If the Patriots want to give the Bears a 2nd, 4th, and the Bears get another high pick next year (2nd or 3rd), how could the Bears NOT do that?

I think anyway you look at it , you have a good player, they have to make a shot at the SB this year and are better with a known commodity. Unless we hit on the next two drafts big time, we are on the downhill slide on defense. I actually think Bush could carry the load, but Forte is better. The 2nd and the 4th sound like the right price someone would offer, but if the best franchise over the last 10 years wants him, what does that tell you. He has valve, and going forward with Marshall he will be more of a stud.

[balta1701-A]

I think anyway you look at it , you have a good player, they have to make a shot at the SB this year and are better with a known commodity. Unless we hit on the next two drafts big time, we are on the downhill slide on defense. I actually think Bush could carry the load, but Forte is better. The 2nd and the 4th sound like the right price someone would offer, but if the best franchise over the last 10 years wants him, what does that tell you. He has valve, and going forward with Marshall he will be more of a stud.

Unless you already think Forte will hold out.

[Bears4Ever_34]

This isn't about winning a Super Bowl. I doubt any NFC team hesitates making a deal with an AFC team because of the potential of meeting up in the Super Bowl. Brady and Forte would be a great combo, for now, but what about in 4 years, when Brady will be making $18 million annually and Forte anywhere between $8-10 million?

 

What is it about then? I know what you're saying, but it's not like Forte is just going to sit out for two full seasons. Because we could just franchise him again if we wanted to. I could be wrong but isn't it mandatory that a player must report to the team by week 10 if he's holding out? I thought I remember reading that somewhere. IIRC Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins both were hold outs for most of the season last year but reported to the team at the deadline.

 

 

Of course the Bears are "going for it" this year, but is a fresh rookie who has the potential to be dynamic teamed with Michael Bush really a huge drop off from Matt Forte, who has TONS of mileage on him? I'm not sure. Like you posted the other day, what Super Bowl winner over the past handful of years has had a GREAT back on their team?

 

For me, it's a matter of 'knowing what you're going to get from player' as opposed to not. Can Michael Bush be a #1 back for us? I think so. But is he better than Matt Forte? Absolutely not. Is that rookie RB going to be the next Matt Forte? Who knows. The bottom line is, I don't want to settle on a late 2nd round pick when I can always just keep the guy and either hope he doesn't hold out or at least have him in the lineup for the stretch run. There aren't many guys that are willing to lose their entire salary for a full year because of a season long hold out. That's what would happen to Matt if he refused to play after that week 10 deadline (or whatever it is). In fact, I'm not sure if it has ever happened before. I would accept nothing less than a 1st round draft pick for him.

[Stinger226]

What is it about then? I know what you're saying, but it's not like Forte is just going to sit out for two full seasons. Because we could just franchise him again if we wanted to. I could be wrong but isn't it mandatory that a player must report to the team by week 10 if he's holding out? I thought I remember reading that somewhere. IIRC Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins both were hold outs for most of the season last year but reported to the team at the deadline.

 

 

 

 

For me, it's a matter of 'knowing what you're going to get from player' as opposed to not. Can Michael Bush be a #1 back for us? I think so. But is he better than Matt Forte? Absolutely not. Is that rookie RB going to be the next Matt Forte? Who knows. The bottom line is, I don't want to settle on a late 2nd round pick when I can always just keep the guy and either hope he doesn't hold out or at least have him in the lineup for the stretch run. There aren't many guys that are willing to lose their entire salary for a full year because of a season long hold out. That's what would happen to Matt if he refused to play after that week 10 deadline (or whatever it is). In fact, I'm not sure if it has ever happened before. I would accept nothing less than a 1st round draft pick for him.

thats it in a nutshell

[AZ54]

Forte won't sit and give up $7.7million. That would be absolutely foolish especially when he's out there demanding more money. He might sit out training camp. If the Bears don't give him what he wants then his best market value for getting the big deal resides in having another Pro Bowl season.

 

I guess I fall into the hater club though. Actually I'm a Bears fan and more interested in having the best team in the league. Having Forte this year definitely makes us more competitive.....this year. Having a 1st Rd and 4th Rd pick instead I believe makes us more competitive in years afterward.

 

Kahlil Bell isn't anywhere close to Forte's ability yet he still averaged 4.3 ypc behind our Oline. Forte had 4.9ypc. In contrast Marion Barber, who often went to the opposite hole from where the play was designed, had a low 3.7ypc. Keep in mind most of Bell's carries were after Williams went out. Bell had far too many fumbles for my taste so he's not the answer IMO, maybe as a third back but he should have competition for that role. I'm just pointing out that it's reasonable to see a guy like Bush averaging 4.3ypc behind our Oline if nothing else had changed. Add in Brandon Marshall's effect on safety coverage and that becomes more likely. There's no reason we can't add another quality RB in the 2nd or 3rd Rd to have a solid tandem here.

 

That means we now have two first round picks and we can grab a DE and perhaps OT/OG. However, if we had this option I'd like to keep our pick at #19 for the DE (hopefully) and trade the other one back into first half of Rd 2 and add another 3rd Rd pick. Then grab OG, WR in Rd 2 and CB, RB in Rd 3 and a pair of LBs or DT/LB in Rd 4. In this scenario we would bring in young talent that can either start right away or be solid depth at all places of need.

 

These days Jonathan Martin sounds more and more like Chris Williams, for that we might as well put Williams back at LT and grab an OG road grader in 2nd or 3rd round to bulk up the inside. I like the kid out of Iowa State, Osemele, because he has some ability to slide outside to RT so he could be our backup RT and Carimi slide to LT if needed. Osemele is still a work in progress but he has the tools to be Pro Bowl caliber and we have the right coach to get him to that level plus he plays with some attitude which we need.

 

 

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

What is it about then? I know what you're saying, but it's not like Forte is just going to sit out for two full seasons. Because we could just franchise him again if we wanted to. I could be wrong but isn't it mandatory that a player must report to the team by week 10 if he's holding out? I thought I remember reading that somewhere. IIRC Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins both were hold outs for most of the season last year but reported to the team at the deadline.

 

 

 

 

For me, it's a matter of 'knowing what you're going to get from player' as opposed to not. Can Michael Bush be a #1 back for us? I think so. But is he better than Matt Forte? Absolutely not. Is that rookie RB going to be the next Matt Forte? Who knows. The bottom line is, I don't want to settle on a late 2nd round pick when I can always just keep the guy and either hope he doesn't hold out or at least have him in the lineup for the stretch run. There aren't many guys that are willing to lose their entire salary for a full year because of a season long hold out. That's what would happen to Matt if he refused to play after that week 10 deadline (or whatever it is). In fact, I'm not sure if it has ever happened before. I would accept nothing less than a 1st round draft pick for him.

Of course the ultimate goal is to win a championship. What I meant by "this is not about a Super Bowl" is that you made it sound like the Bears shouldn't do this trade because it would make New Engand an even more powerful offense. No team ever thinks that way when trading a player, unless it's in their own division. The Broncos didn't say "s***, we just traded Cutler to Chicago and now they're going to good, and if we meet them in the Super Bowl, we're f***ed." See what I'm saying?

 

As for the next part of your first paragraph, I'm not 100% sure there. I think that's for draft picks though because I remember hearing that a lot when Crabtree was holding out in San Francisco. You could be right though.

 

Your second paragraph is understood, except for the Bush is "absolutely not" better than Forte. Bush has 21 TD's in his career as a back-up. Forte has 21 as a starter. Bush has averaged 4.2 ypc in his career. So has Forte. Granted, Bush has been in the league for one year longer. Both can catch the ball, both aren't super fast, Bush scores more TD's and has fresher legs, and Forte is probably more shifty. To me, it's almost a toss up, believe it or not.

 

All I'm saying is that if he's going to take a fair deal and another team wants to give the Bears THAT much for a guy who probably only has 2 good years left in him, I think it would be in the best interest of the organization. They'd get rid of his huge deal, get more picks to add to the OL or D (or potentially package those picks for an extra 1st), and they'd be trading away a gigantic headache. When Lovie is admitting that Forte is unhappy with the franchise, you know Forte is unhappy with the franchise.

[Mongo3451]

Forte won't sit and give up $7.7million. That would be absolutely foolish especially when he's out there demanding more money. He might sit out training camp. If the Bears don't give him what he wants then his best market value for getting the big deal resides in having another Pro Bowl season.

 

I guess I fall into the hater club though. Actually I'm a Bears fan and more interested in having the best team in the league. Having Forte this year definitely makes us more competitive.....this year. Having a 1st Rd and 4th Rd pick instead I believe makes us more competitive in years afterward.

 

Kahlil Bell isn't anywhere close to Forte's ability yet he still averaged 4.3 ypc behind our Oline. Forte had 4.9ypc. In contrast Marion Barber, who often went to the opposite hole from where the play was designed, had a low 3.7ypc. Keep in mind most of Bell's carries were after Williams went out. Bell had far too many fumbles for my taste so he's not the answer IMO, maybe as a third back but he should have competition for that role. I'm just pointing out that it's reasonable to see a guy like Bush averaging 4.3ypc behind our Oline if nothing else had changed. Add in Brandon Marshall's effect on safety coverage and that becomes more likely. There's no reason we can't add another quality RB in the 2nd or 3rd Rd to have a solid tandem here.

 

That means we now have two first round picks and we can grab a DE and perhaps OT/OG. However, if we had this option I'd like to keep our pick at #19 for the DE (hopefully) and trade the other one back into first half of Rd 2 and add another 3rd Rd pick. Then grab OG, WR in Rd 2 and CB, RB in Rd 3 and a pair of LBs or DT/LB in Rd 4. In this scenario we would bring in young talent that can either start right away or be solid depth at all places of need.

 

These days Jonathan Martin sounds more and more like Chris Williams, for that we might as well put Williams back at LT and grab an OG road grader in 2nd or 3rd round to bulk up the inside. I like the kid out of Iowa State, Osemele, because he has some ability to slide outside to RT so he could be our backup RT and Carimi slide to LT if needed. Osemele is still a work in progress but he has the tools to be Pro Bowl caliber and we have the right coach to get him to that level plus he plays with some attitude which we need.

A 1st and 4th for Forte would be a steal for us. I agree with your assessment in regards to Forte's future production and overall skillset. One thing I would note: is that we'd probably be better off "this year" with the picks. Bush isn't that far below Forte IMO and signing Bell and drafting a young RB early would make the stable better and stronger than last year. All while giving us a badly needed extra pick. I'm in! Just hope NE would be greedy enough to do it...

[lemonej]

Lets take this perspective. Matt Forte was the 44th overall pick in the 2008 draft. The Bears have been in the playoffs 1 time since he has been on the team and the focal point of the offense.IMO he can't take the Bears to the SB alone.Walter Payton for all the great things he did for the Bears couldn't get the Bears to the SB alone he needed the Willie Gaults ,Dennis Mc Kinnons,Emery Mooreheads,Tim Wrightmans,Ken Margerums and Matt Suheys to get there on offense.Back then there wasn't FA movement so players were bound to one team so this situation is a little different. With Teddy coming out and saying the team has a fair offer on the table(which is what he is supposed to say) and knowing this team has signed all its draft picks before TC every year since Benson tells me that he may be truthful when he says the contract is fair.WTBS there were 2 games that the Bears should have won without Forte and a lot of this discussion would not matter if they would have made the playoffs. A combination of Thomas Jones and Cedric Benson got this team to the SB with Rex Grossman at QB.