Mongo3451 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...nsive-line.html ...The OL is OK. As a result, I have my very first avatar... Seriously WTF? These assholes better be lying. I get the continuity thing with getting another year to gell. I get the Martz thing and the schemes he ran. What I don't get is false start after false start, then a hold, then a whiff out of JaMarcus Webb. Our staff seems to get a boner for someone every few years for someone that doesn't belong on the field. Hopefully, it's just a smokescreen and I'm crying like a little baby for nothing. Of course that's what I said in 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008 and 2007. (look it up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesson44 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...nsive-line.html ...The OL is OK. As a result, I have my very first avatar... Seriously WTF? These assholes better be lying. I get the continuity thing with getting another year to gell. I get the Martz thing and the schemes he ran. What I don't get is false start after false start, then a hold, then a whiff out of JaMarcus Webb. Our staff seems to get a boner for someone every few years for someone that doesn't belong on the field. Hopefully, it's just a smokescreen and I'm crying like a little baby for nothing. Of course that's what I said in 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008 and 2007. (look it up) Well I truely think that they have a plan this year with the Martz offense style gone. Bates is going to roll Cutler out more and throw the little screens to the WR'S. This will make the line a little better because they would have to hold the block for 5-7 on most plays. Also with the addition of Marshall this allows Cutler to throw the ball quicker cause as you hear it all the time the WR always say " Throw me the ball I'm open" and he will be. And who knows...they might even draft a lineman or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Well I truely think that they have a plan this year with the Martz offense style gone. Bates is going to roll Cutler out more and throw the little screens to the WR'S. This will make the line a little better because they would have to hold the block for 5-7 on most plays. Also with the addition of Marshall this allows Cutler to throw the ball quicker cause as you hear it all the time the WR always say " Throw me the ball I'm open" and he will be. And who knows...they might even draft a lineman or two Bates is not the OC and Mike Tice is. We have to research what Minnesota did when he was there as the HC and as the TE/OL coach when Dennis Green was there.Chris Carter, Randy Moss and Robert Smith. Jeff George,Randall Cunningham and Dante Culpepper were the QBs. There wasn't a lot of rolling out on those teams. There may have been plays made when two of these QBs had to scramble but ther wasn't a lot of designed rollouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Bates is not the OC and Mike Tice is. We have to research what Minnesota did when he was there as the HC and as the TE/OL coach when Dennis Green was there.Chris Carter, Randy Moss and Robert Smith. Jeff George,Randall Cunningham and Dante Culpepper were the QBs. There wasn't a lot of rolling out on those teams. There may have been plays made when two of these QBs had to scramble but ther wasn't a lot of designed rollouts. I think Billick was their OC. Tice has already said there will be chip blocking with TE's and RB's releasing afterward. I really like that style, plus the fact they will allow Cutler to audible.(IMO-this will be a huge addition by subtraction) I'm honestly not as low on the OL as I let on. Just tired of the rhetoric from Lovie. IMO - it's all a smokescreen. OL or DL will be taken 1st in our draft. Either will be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I think Billick was their OC. Tice has already said there will be chip blocking with TE's and RB's releasing afterward. I really like that style, plus the fact they will allow Cutler to audible.(IMO-this will be a huge addition by subtraction) I'm honestly not as low on the OL as I let on. Just tired of the rhetoric from Lovie. IMO - it's all a smokescreen. OL or DL will be taken 1st in our draft. Either will be fine Wasn't Billick in Baltimore? Yes he was the OC when Green was there and what he did in Baltimore wasn't impressive on offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Wasn't Billick in Baltimore? Yes he was the OC when Green was there and what he did in Baltimore wasn't impressive on offense. He may be the first offensive HC that had a lopsided team toward the D side. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 He may be the first offensive HC that had a lopsided team toward the D side. LOL Yeah and during that SB season they went a number of quarters without scoring a TD period. Thats why when I hear him talk about QB play and mechanics etc. I tune him out because he basically changed QBs like underewear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...nsive-line.html ...The OL is OK. As a result, I have my very first avatar... Seriously WTF? These assholes better be lying. I get the continuity thing with getting another year to gell. I get the Martz thing and the schemes he ran. What I don't get is false start after false start, then a hold, then a whiff out of JaMarcus Webb. Our staff seems to get a boner for someone every few years for someone that doesn't belong on the field. Hopefully, it's just a smokescreen and I'm crying like a little baby for nothing. Of course that's what I said in 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008 and 2007. (look it up) I think they have a plan, and fear it may not be looking at the OLine as a priority. They wont be done till after the draft, so I have to wait to give my opinion. They absoulutely have to address the OT spot, and it looks for now that will be with one of the first two picks, if not, then I will join you in complaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I think they have a plan, and fear it may not be looking at the OLine as a priority. They wont be done till after the draft, so I have to wait to give my opinion. They absoulutely have to address the OT spot, and it looks for now that will be with one of the first two picks, if not, then I will join you in complaining. They absolutely need an additional tackle, but I'm not sure either I or they think that they need a "Starting tackle". They're not wrong when they say that very few tackles in the league would have looked good in Martz's system last year, especially with Edwin Williams playing next door and Hanie in the backfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 They absolutely need an additional tackle, but I'm not sure either I or they think that they need a "Starting tackle". They're not wrong when they say that very few tackles in the league would have looked good in Martz's system last year, especially with Edwin Williams playing next door and Hanie in the backfield. Maybe nobody would have looked "good" last year in the offense, but just about everyone else who played LT in the NFL last year would have looked "better." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Maybe nobody would have looked "good" last year in the offense, but just about everyone else who played LT in the NFL last year would have looked "better." The problem is, the 2nd half of this really is conjecture. When you watched the better lines in the league, they did things fundamentally different from the Bears. Go watch a Saints game. Every single snap, a RB or a TE gives help on the other team's best outside rusher, if there's not a full double team. The Bears scheme deliberately said no to that. It might well have worked with Orlando Pace 10 years ago, but it doesn't work today, the lines and attack packages have improved that much. Webb may flat out be inadequate, but when the system is inadequate and everyone agrees the system is failing, how do you put the fault on the player in that system? I've seen some promising games from Webb and I've seen some down games from him. Real problem is, there's no obvious trend, which means either it's his preparation or it's how the defense attacks him, and until I'm paid a lot to break down video by someone, I can't judge that. Which is why I keep saying...if Lovie and Tice are wrong on this decision, if they pass on finding another starting tackle and then Webb gets blown apart this season with a system built to help him, then that's their jobs on the line, because people pay them a whole lot of money to make that decision, and it's probably the difference between a super bowl run and a .500 team that misses the playoffs next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 The problem is, the 2nd half of this really is conjecture. When you watched the better lines in the league, they did things fundamentally different from the Bears. Go watch a Saints game. Every single snap, a RB or a TE gives help on the other team's best outside rusher, if there's not a full double team. The Bears scheme deliberately said no to that. It might well have worked with Orlando Pace 10 years ago, but it doesn't work today, the lines and attack packages have improved that much. Webb may flat out be inadequate, but when the system is inadequate and everyone agrees the system is failing, how do you put the fault on the player in that system? I've seen some promising games from Webb and I've seen some down games from him. Real problem is, there's no obvious trend, which means either it's his preparation or it's how the defense attacks him, and until I'm paid a lot to break down video by someone, I can't judge that. Which is why I keep saying...if Lovie and Tice are wrong on this decision, if they pass on finding another starting tackle and then Webb gets blown apart this season with a system built to help him, then that's their jobs on the line, because people pay them a whole lot of money to make that decision, and it's probably the difference between a super bowl run and a .500 team that misses the playoffs next year. The first half is also conjecture. Since we didn't see anyone else of note in the Bears 2011 offense at LT, we don't know how well they would have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Cutler has already stated he is working on pass plays with Bates and they were installing many of the things they did in Denver. Tice is the OC but Bates seems to have quite a bit of input on the passing game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 The first half is also conjecture. Since we didn't see anyone else of note in the Bears 2011 offense at LT, we don't know how well they would have done. Actually, I really think it's safe to say that the system the Bears were running was a disaster and it was getting worse with time in terms of QB killing. Detroit and San Fran saw the same thing when they tried it, and you can establish how bad it was pretty easily if you watch O-Line setups around the league. Nobody puts their LT out on an island like the Bears wanted to do with Webb. It's just suicide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Chris Williams=LT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Actually, I really think it's safe to say that the system the Bears were running was a disaster and it was getting worse with time in terms of QB killing. Detroit and San Fran saw the same thing when they tried it, and you can establish how bad it was pretty easily if you watch O-Line setups around the league. Nobody puts their LT out on an island like the Bears wanted to do with Webb. It's just suicide. And yet, in Martz's last year with the Niners (2008), the second year LT Joe Staley, who happens to be a first rounder, only gave up 8 sacks on the year and performed well enough that the team thought it a good idea to sign him to a six-year contract worth $42M ($18M guaranteed). Meanwhile, the dynamic duo of Shaun Hill and JT O'Sullivan put up 3700 yards passing. If they had anything close to a consistent, NFL-level QB playing more than half the games, they would have not had the problems they did. And even with their problems, it certainly wasn't because their LT was a catastrophic failure. Putting an LT on an island on almost 100% of the plays is bad strategy. Putting a shitty LT on an island for the same amount of time is suicide. There is a definite distinction, and trying to lump the two statements into one is not a way to defend Webb. Others in the same system have previously done better, would have done better for the Bears last year, and will continue to do better than Webb. It would have been smart to give Webb help - I still don't understand why it wasn't done or how much blame Tice deserves - but regardless of the help, Webb would have sucked, and a team shouldn't have to completely alter their offense and protection plans to make up for the deficiencies of a single player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Actually, I really think it's safe to say that the system the Bears were running was a disaster and it was getting worse with time in terms of QB killing. Detroit and San Fran saw the same thing when they tried it, and you can establish how bad it was pretty easily if you watch O-Line setups around the league. Nobody puts their LT out on an island like the Bears wanted to do with Webb. It's just suicide. Again, everybody knows Martz is a QB killer. The pont is the false starts, holding, whiffs and failed run blocking assignments. The guy has ability, but no football IQ and instincts. We shouldn't give up on him as a player, just as a starter. He simply needs more seasoning behind more polished players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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