Draft/BPA

[Stinger226]

I have looked at several draft grading players and there is about 18 that are considered first year starters/pro bowl potenial players.So I will list and figure out who might be there at 19.

 

Luck,Griffin,Richardson,Blackmon, Floyd, Kalil,DeCastro, Reiff,Glenn,Fleener, Kuechly, Coples,Ingram,Brockers,Cox,Claiborne,Kirkpatrick,Barron.

These are players falling in those spots.

Also could move into the top 18-Poe,Tannerhill,Wright,Konz, Jenkins, Upshaw,Martin,Gilmore.

 

So as the draft goes will determine who the best player available at that spot.

We wont be going after Luck,Griffin,Richardson,Fleenner. that leaves 14.

We wont have any chance of drafting Blackmon, Kalil,DeCastro, and Claiborne, because they will be gone.So that leaves us with 10

Potenially moving up into the top 18, I think Poe Tannerhill, Upshaw, goes sooner. Leaving us

Floyd, I think he will be gone

Reiff , I think he will be gone

Coples , I think he will be gone

Barron, I think he will be gone. So our choices will be, depending on how the draft goes.

 

Kirkpatrick/CB, I think with our Free agents, we dont draft a CB in at 19

Kuechly/LB, I think odds are he wont be there.

Brockers/DT I think odds are he will be gone.

 

So I think our choices will be from Cox/DT, Ingram/DE,Glenn/OL out of the top players in the draft. Also close that we could take would be Martin/LT, and Mercilus/DE. I dont think we go WR at that spot with the potenial to grab Wright or Hill.

 

I think that will be one of those players at 19, unless we move down. Martin and Mercilus arent in the group of top players but close enough that we might reach for them.

[azbearsfan]

I have looked at several draft grading players and there is about 18 that are considered first year starters/pro bowl potenial players.So I will list and figure out who might be there at 19.

 

Luck,Griffin,Richardson,Blackmon, Floyd, Kalil,DeCastro, Reiff,Glenn,Fleener, Kuechly, Coples,Ingram,Brockers,Cox,Claiborne,Kirkpatrick,Barron.

These are players falling in those spots.

Also could move into the top 18-Poe,Tannerhill,Wright,Konz, Jenkins, Upshaw,Martin,Gilmore.

 

So as the draft goes will determine who the best player available at that spot.

We wont be going after Luck,Griffin,Richardson,Fleenner. that leaves 14.

We wont have any chance of drafting Blackmon, Kalil,DeCastro, and Claiborne, because they will be gone.So that leaves us with 10

Potenially moving up into the top 18, I think Poe Tannerhill, Upshaw, goes sooner. Leaving us

Floyd, I think he will be gone

Reiff , I think he will be gone

Coples , I think he will be gone

Barron, I think he will be gone. So our choices will be, depending on how the draft goes.

 

Kirkpatrick/CB, I think with our Free agents, we dont draft a CB in at 19

Kuechly/LB, I think odds are he wont be there.

Brockers/DT I think odds are he will be gone.

 

So I think our choices will be from Cox/DT, Ingram/DE,Glenn/OL out of the top players in the draft. Also close that we could take would be Martin/LT, and Mercilus/DE. I dont think we go WR at that spot with the potenial to grab Wright or Hill.

 

I think that will be one of those players at 19, unless we move down. Martin and Mercilus arent in the group of top players but close enough that we might reach for them.

 

 

 

To me,

 

Kirkpatrick is the only guy I would take at 19 there.

 

If we aren't taking him I think you could move down, get another pick, and still take the same caliber of player that you would have at 19.

 

[Guest TerraTor]

To me,

 

Kirkpatrick is the only guy I would take at 19 there.

 

If we aren't taking him I think you could move down, get another pick, and still take the same caliber of player that you would have at 19.

Unless we get a late 2nd i wouldn't trade down

[azbearsfan]

Unless we get a late 2nd i wouldn't trade down

 

 

Depends on how far we go back. If it is a couple of spots then you can get another 4th. I just think that the quality of the prospects at 19 are pretty equal, and you can move down to get a better value.

 

Also it depends on how the draft goes.

[Stinger226]

Depends on how far we go back. If it is a couple of spots then you can get another 4th. I just think that the quality of the prospects at 19 are pretty equal, and you can move down to get a better value.

 

Also it depends on how the draft goes.

I tend to agree with 19 thru 28 could be players rated about the same, but if someone from the front of the draft drops, then you have to consider him instead of the thought of moving down. Lets say Kuechly drops, he wont last very long, he is a stud and I totally think we would very much consider picking him even tho right now isnt a pressing need. Play him at SLB and put him where you want him as the pro bowlers leave.

[azbearsfan]

I tend to agree with 19 thru 28 could be players rated about the same, but if someone from the front of the draft drops, then you have to consider him instead of the thought of moving down. Lets say Kuechly drops, he wont last very long, he is a stud and I totally think we would very much consider picking him even tho right now isnt a pressing need. Play him at SLB and put him where you want him as the pro bowlers leave.

 

 

And I agree with that take.

 

I'm just saying if no one falls, then I would be cool with a trade down.

[bradjock]

And I agree with that take.

 

I'm just saying if no one falls, then I would be cool with a trade down.

 

Somebody ALWAYS falls. For all the time we spend speculating on who should go where, there's always several WTF's???

 

Last year the QB's were the big shockers. Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, and Christian Ponder weren't projected to go anywhere near the top 12 where they were drafted.

 

Seattle took OT James Carpenter over Carimi & Derrek Sherrod. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

 

Heck, the Bears claimed they were going to take Paea at #29 if Carimi was gone.

 

Then you have Da'Quon Bowers who intitially was projected as the best player in the draft, slip all the way to #51. Granted that was due to his knee injury, but that was still a shock IMO.

 

Guys will slip and we'll have "WTF?" moments. The question is if it's a position we need.

 

 

 

[AZ54]

If OG is the target in Rd 1 we can easily drop back quite a few picks to the end of the first and still pick up good talent.

[Stinger226]

If OG is the target in Rd 1 we can easily drop back quite a few picks to the end of the first and still pick up good talent.

I dont think OG is our target, but if DeCastro is there, you have to take him. Maybe if Glenn is there that is the best option, will have to see how the draft falls.

[Bears4Ever_34]

If Kirkpatrick fell to us at 19, I would draft him without hesitation. I think his skills translate best to what the Bears do defensively. Great instincts, great athleticism, and has that burst that allows him to excel at play making. He has questions off the field and is also on the thin side. Needs to bulk up a bit so he doesn't get bullied by some of the bigger receivers in the league and also because it will help him stay durable.

[azbearsfan]

If Kirkpatrick fell to us at 19, I would draft him without hesitation. I think his skills translate best to what the Bears do defensively. Great instincts, great athleticism, and has that burst that allows him to excel at play making. He has questions off the field and is also on the thin side. Needs to bulk up a bit so he doesn't get bullied by some of the bigger receivers in the league and also because it will help him stay durable.

 

 

I agree. I think he has a chance to be a special player.

 

 

Not so much with the others projected to be there.

[jason]

The Kirkpatrick pick is not one I would like. He's a special player, but will underperform in the Lovie-2 because he will be called about to sit back into zone and play space more than he will be asked to shutdown an opponent's #1. The reason you draft a CB in the first is to shutdown the opponent's #1. Period. It's the reason guys like Revis are called Revis Island and guys like Tillman have put in a bunch of very good years with virtually no sort of recognition. You don't draft a CB in the first round to sit in a zone the majority of the game. If Defense must be had, the three most important positions in the Lovie-2 are DT, MLB, and FS; the CB position is undervalued.

[Stinger226]

The Kirkpatrick pick is not one I would like. He's a special player, but will underperform in the Lovie-2 because he will be called about to sit back into zone and play space more than he will be asked to shutdown an opponent's #1. The reason you draft a CB in the first is to shutdown the opponent's #1. Period. It's the reason guys like Revis are called Revis Island and guys like Tillman have put in a bunch of very good years with virtually no sort of recognition. You don't draft a CB in the first round to sit in a zone the majority of the game. If Defense must be had, the three most important positions in the Lovie-2 are DT, MLB, and FS; the CB position is undervalued.

I agree other than the DEs need to generate a pass rush. I think with Urlacher playing at a high level we dont go there, unless Kuechly drops. Free saftey, there isnt any of valve for the first two rounds so we wont go there. DT is a great possiblity with several being there at 19. DE will definity be addressed and probably with the first round depending on how the draft falls.

[Bears4Ever_34]

The Kirkpatrick pick is not one I would like. He's a special player, but will underperform in the Lovie-2 because he will be called about to sit back into zone and play space more than he will be asked to shutdown an opponent's #1.

 

That's actually why he would be great here. His skills translate best in a zone coverage defense like ours. He's not a Darell Revis that's going to be physical at the LOS and play alot of man to man. He's got Asante Samuels skills of anticipation and the instincts to thrive in a Chicago Bears defense.

 

[Lucky Luciano]

That's actually why he would be great here. His skills translate best in a zone coverage defense like ours. He's not a Darell Revis that's going to be physical at the LOS and play alot of man to man. He's got Asante Samuels skills of anticipation and the instincts to thrive in a Chicago Bears defense.

 

kirkpatrick from what i have read sounds a lot like a younger version of peanut.

 

a good to very good >>#2

 

a solid pick at 19 in my opinion but not that man-on-man CB we really need to give our defensive line the time to get to the QB. if converted to an excellent free safety he would be a killer pick at 19.

[Stinger226]

kirkpatrick from what i have read sounds a lot like a younger version of peanut.

 

a good to very good >>#2

 

a solid pick at 19 in my opinion but not that man-on-man CB we really need to give our defensive line the time to get to the QB. if converted to an excellent free safety he would be a killer pick at 19.

He could be a very special player, but dont think the Bears will draft a CB with the first round pick. Our depth is OK now at CB, as someone else pointed out it is not the key positions this defense covets. I think they can find in 3rd or 4th round CBs that could start in our defense. They will bring in an impact player at a position of greater need, DE,DT,LT if one is there before CB.

[jason]

That's actually why he would be great here. His skills translate best in a zone coverage defense like ours. He's not a Darell Revis that's going to be physical at the LOS and play alot of man to man. He's got Asante Samuels skills of anticipation and the instincts to thrive in a Chicago Bears defense.

 

I should have written "will underperform for a first round CB." Picking up Kirkpatrick because he's great in the Lovie-2 system of covering space and zone is similar to drafting a strict possession WR in the first round for a team like the Patriots that dinks and dunks it all over the field. Both situations are reaches in terms of pure talent as it relates to other players at their position, can be had later in the draft, are not one of the most critical components of the system being used, and if not for the ease with which they'd fit into the team's system the player wouldn't be considered as highly. It would be similar to the Bears drafting Earl Bennett in the first round because they know he can fit in.

 

Is Kirkpatrick good? Yes.

Would he do well in the Lovie-2? I believe so.

Is he the kind of player you want in the first round? No.

Does he maximize the value of the first round pick? No.

 

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

I should have written "will underperform for a first round CB." Picking up Kirkpatrick because he's great in the Lovie-2 system of covering space and zone is similar to drafting a strict possession WR in the first round for a team like the Patriots that dinks and dunks it all over the field. Both situations are reaches in terms of pure talent as it relates to other players at their position, can be had later in the draft, are not one of the most critical components of the system being used, and if not for the ease with which they'd fit into the team's system the player wouldn't be considered as highly. It would be similar to the Bears drafting Earl Bennett in the first round because they know he can fit in.

 

Is Kirkpatrick good? Yes.

Would he do well in the Lovie-2? I believe so.

Is he the kind of player you want in the first round? No.

Does he maximize the value of the first round pick? No.

NFL.com gave Kirkpatrick a higher grade than Claiborne and most mocks have Claiborne being a top 5 pick. There isn't a ton of difference between either guy in terms of talent. If you are going with BPA approach then Kirkpatrick most likely will be that if he's there at 19 over guys like Reiff, Martin, Mercilus, Ingram, and probably Coples etc... If you value need over BPA, then those other guys are better picks but not the better player. The Bears need to inject more young talent on the defensive side of the football for when guys like Peanut, Urlacher, and Peppers start to decline as players.

[Stinger226]

NFL.com gave Kirkpatrick a higher grade than Claiborne and most mocks have Claiborne being a top 5 pick. There isn't a ton of difference between either guy in terms of talent. If you are going with BPA approach then Kirkpatrick most likely will be that if he's there at 19 over guys like Reiff, Martin, Mercilus, Ingram, and probably Coples etc... If you value need over BPA, then those other guys are better picks but not the better player. The Bears need to inject more young talent on the defensive side of the football for when guys like Peanut, Urlacher, and Peppers start to decline as players.

NFP has him listed at the 11 BP with a 7.5 grade, also listed with a 7.5 grade are Coples, and Ingram.

PFW has him listed as the 23rd best player. also listed a head of him are Reiff, Ingram,Coples,Cox,Brockers,Glenn,Adams, Poe (players at a need position)

GBND has him listed at the 18th best player, ahead of him in positions of need, Reiff, Ingram, Coples, Cox, Brockers

Walters football has him listed as the 13th best player, ahead of him in positions of need Reiff, Ingram, Coples

OurLads has him being drafted 23rd, not having a big board listing

Draft tek has him listed as the 27th best player, ahead of him 10 players at DE,DT,LT

NFL.com has him list at the 11th best player, ahead of him are Ingram, Coples, and Reiff.

 

The point I am trying to make is he is probably not the BPA at 19 , several other players will be ahead of him at a position of need. I think he is a special player but we wont be drafting him. Also I cant find where NFL.com says he is a better player than Claiborne, just checked the website.

[Lucky Luciano]

He could be a very special player, but dont think the Bears will draft a CB with the first round pick. Our depth is OK now at CB, as someone else pointed out it is not the key positions this defense covets. I think they can find in 3rd or 4th round CBs that could start in our defense. They will bring in an impact player at a position of greater need, DE,DT,LT if one is there before CB.

 

if there were no offensive linemen at 19 worth picking for LT or G or even C i would not mind this pick at all. the kid seems to have a lot of confidence and appears to have some very good football smarts. he is also only a junior so with good coaching he could turn out an excellent #2 corner and maybe even play some man coverage. if not for his speed i would be really high on this guy as a future #1 corner.

 

that said, i stand by what i stated. with good coaching he could have the potential to be a perennial pro-bowl player at free safety which is something we DO need. he may even be smart enough to call the signals like mike brown. also if lovie gets the heave-ho this kid as a free safety could play in any type of system. at when we are picking this year this is a very good option for a quality player even IF we had to make him a future very good+ second corner.

 

finally, to reiterate... half of our problems on defense stem from the inability to cover man and play bump and run off the LOS. will lovie ever get it?

 

if not then we need to be drafting players who can also play in a future, hopefully, better regime and not limit ourselves to this dinosaur system.

[Bears4Ever_34]

NFP has him listed at the 11 BP with a 7.5 grade, also listed with a 7.5 grade are Coples, and Ingram.

PFW has him listed as the 23rd best player. also listed a head of him are Reiff, Ingram,Coples,Cox,Brockers,Glenn,Adams, Poe (players at a need position)

GBND has him listed at the 18th best player, ahead of him in positions of need, Reiff, Ingram, Coples, Cox, Brockers

Walters football has him listed as the 13th best player, ahead of him in positions of need Reiff, Ingram, Coples

OurLads has him being drafted 23rd, not having a big board listing

Draft tek has him listed as the 27th best player, ahead of him 10 players at DE,DT,LT

NFL.com has him list at the 11th best player, ahead of him are Ingram, Coples, and Reiff.

 

The point I am trying to make is he is probably not the BPA at 19 , several other players will be ahead of him at a position of need. I think he is a special player but we wont be drafting him. Also I cant find where NFL.com says he is a better player than Claiborne, just checked the website.

Going by grades NFL.com has listed, Kirkpatrick was a 92.0 and they have Claiborne at 91.5. He was tied for 7th best in the overall player grades with Coples.

 

Luck- 97.0

Griffin III- 95.0

Kalil- 94.0

Richardson- 93.5

Blackmon- 93.5

Decastro- 92.5

Kirkpatrick- 92.0

Coples- 92.0

 

Kirkpatrick is more of a complete player than some of those other guys not listed here. Ingram has physical limitations that do not bode well for him as a DE. He is more of a 3/4 OLB than he is a 4/3 DE. Reiff's arm length and lack of strength is less than ideal for a prototypical OT. The question mark with him as well as with Martin is in pass protection. Mercilus is more than likely going to be a 3rd down specialist as a DE until he can figure out how to play the run. Coples is an anomaly because of his season last year. He's extremely talented but alot of people question his motivation and his lack of explosiveness makes me cringe a little. Kirkpatrick's only real concern isn't his tools on the field, but his weight. Once you get him together with an NFL trainer, putting on muscle shouldn't be a big problem.

[jason]

NFL.com gave Kirkpatrick a higher grade than Claiborne and most mocks have Claiborne being a top 5 pick. There isn't a ton of difference between either guy in terms of talent. If you are going with BPA approach then Kirkpatrick most likely will be that if he's there at 19 over guys like Reiff, Martin, Mercilus, Ingram, and probably Coples etc... If you value need over BPA, then those other guys are better picks but not the better player. The Bears need to inject more young talent on the defensive side of the football for when guys like Peanut, Urlacher, and Peppers start to decline as players.

 

Interesting grades. Better is relative. No player is a lock. In the draft, nearly nothing is certain.

 

What are certainties, however, are the holes on the Bears' roster.

 

A solid draft approach should be neither BPA nor need-based; it should be a combination of the two. If you have a C and an F, it makes a lot more sense to get that F to a C before you try to turn the C into an A. A bunch of C's aren't pretty, but they won't tank the overall score. An F will bury you in all facets of life. Only as strong as your weakest link, and all that.

[Stinger226]

Going by grades NFL.com has listed, Kirkpatrick was a 92.0 and they have Claiborne at 91.5. He was tied for 7th best in the overall player grades with Coples.

 

Luck- 97.0

Griffin III- 95.0

Kalil- 94.0

Richardson- 93.5

Blackmon- 93.5

Decastro- 92.5

Kirkpatrick- 92.0

Coples- 92.0

 

Kirkpatrick is more of a complete player than some of those other guys not listed here. Ingram has physical limitations that do not bode well for him as a DE. He is more of a 3/4 OLB than he is a 4/3 DE. Reiff's arm length and lack of strength is less than ideal for a prototypical OT. The question mark with him as well as with Martin is in pass protection. Mercilus is more than likely going to be a 3rd down specialist as a DE until he can figure out how to play the run. Coples is an anomaly because of his season last year. He's extremely talented but alot of people question his motivation and his lack of explosiveness makes me cringe a little. Kirkpatrick's only real concern isn't his tools on the field, but his weight. Once you get him together with an NFL trainer, putting on muscle shouldn't be a big problem.

I think maybe instead of using one website you should look at many and determine your opinion, but thats not you, I forgot you were the one stuck on the 46 mil figure for the cap space, and didnt listen to what anyone else had to say. How did that work out for you when the actual figures came in.

[Bears4Ever_34]

I think maybe instead of using one website you should look at many and determine your opinion, but thats not you, I forgot you were the one stuck on the 46 mil figure for the cap space, and didnt listen to what anyone else had to say. How did that work out for you when the actual figures came in.

Christ.. What the hell are you even talking about? You couldn't find the grades on NFL.com so I decided to help you out by showing you. I'm not sure what your problem is but there's no need to get all defensive about everything you write. Instead of bashing someone for no reason, why don't you try spending time formulating a thought that actually adds something to the conversation?

 

And as for the irrelevant and untimely comment on the cap, I wasn't going to say it but since you brought it up, it turned out that the number seemed to be right on track to what was mentioned on the CBMB. Sean Jensen tweeted the amount of space left a couple weeks ago that was on par with what was predicted weeks before by the man we were discussing.

 

I just gave reasons as to why some of those other players weren't better players than Dre but instead of responding with something substantive, you revert to belittling and spouting off nonsense about something that happened weeks ago that is completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Interesting grades. Better is relative. No player is a lock. In the draft, nearly nothing is certain.

I would agree with that. Nothing is a certainty in draft scenarios. It's all about weighing the risks and doing your homework on a player to make sure he's the right person for your team.