Bears sign G Chilo Rachal

[CrackerDog]

I think me most people are done with TO because he simply can not run anymore. They always put up with his crap as long as he could play. He's done. Hes not better now than Bennet or Hester. Give it up Jason.

 

Amen

[jason]

Obviously most people take character into account. I guess you don't. And no, I don't think you can say he's got the body of a 25 year old. That's silly. He's a beat up late 30's washed up receiver until he proves otherwise. And I don't see him getting that shot. No GM in the league agrees with you. Not one.

 

He did push-ups in his driveway all season last year and nobody called. Poor baby.

 

You have to read the entire post. You obviously aren't doing so. What I'm saying is, antics aside, character aside, he still has the abilities to be in the NFL. He's still better than many other WRs currently occupying roster spots. What is so difficult to comprehend about that simple truth? And it is truth. He's better than many who have contracts.

 

Different issue: Is his diminished talent AND his attitude worth a chance required by some NFL team? They apparently feel it is not. I can live with that. I'd prefer he was given a shot since I think he can help the Bears, but it's an understandable stance.

 

But simply saying he's washed up and not better than many other WRs in the NFL is such a bogus statement that it has to be addressed. Even if he's at 75% of his former self, he's still better than many others in the NFL. Especially just about every other team's #3.

[jason]

He might make the top 100, but (who cares) NOBODY wants him but you.He may suprize someone and can still play but his bridges are all gone at 38. Your opinion of him just doesnt matter because the people who run football teams dont want him, and I know they are smarter than me.

 

The bolded part is the important part. They don't want him because bridges are burned and his antics are not worth the risk. But it's not exclusively based on talent.

 

And I wouldn't sell yourself short. The guys running teams and making these selections aren't geniuses; they just have a bunch of people working for them who have time to put in all sorts of analysis. And even at that they are batting at less than .500.

 

[jason]

I think me most people are done with TO because he simply can not run anymore. They always put up with his crap as long as he could play. He's done. Hes not better now than Bennet or Hester. Give it up Jason.

 

Never.

 

I understand if people don't like the guy, but it's downright ignorant to pretend that he's not better than many other WRs in the NFL. And if you honestly think he's a worse WR right now than Hester, then I think we've found the source of disagreement. I believe even at 50% he's better than Hester. He has better routes, hands, shielding of the defender, knowledge of how to get open, etc. He knows the WR craft.

 

I know the Bears will never get him, but it's amazing to me that someone who dominated as recently as he has is suddenly considered worse than guys like Sanzenbacher, a guy who had nearly no business seeing the field this year. That's just ridiculous. There is a Sanzenbacher on every team, and TO is better. But TO and his attitude may not be worth it, which I understand.

[azbearsfan]

Never.

 

I understand if people don't like the guy, but it's downright ignorant to pretend that he's not better than many other WRs in the NFL. And if you honestly think he's a worse WR right now than Hester, then I think we've found the source of disagreement. I believe even at 50% he's better than Hester. He has better routes, hands, shielding of the defender, knowledge of how to get open, etc. He knows the WR craft.

 

I know the Bears will never get him, but it's amazing to me that someone who dominated as recently as he has is suddenly considered worse than guys like Sanzenbacher, a guy who had nearly no business seeing the field this year. That's just ridiculous. There is a Sanzenbacher on every team, and TO is better. But TO and his attitude may not be worth it, which I understand.

 

 

 

Perhaps you should break down his tape in the arena league before you make sure bold statements.

 

 

You really have no legs to stand on here.

[jason]

Perhaps you should break down his tape in the arena league before you make sure bold statements. You really have no legs to stand on here.

 

TO's career stats, and stats from 2010 before the injury, provide enough source of balance. Besides that, I have looked at all the film available of TO's time in Arena. Breakdown this highlight reel for instance...

 

 

Touchdown #1 - Does not look explosive, but still fast. Drives into his defender until the DB breaks down. Subtle nudge and hard in-cut. Great route, found an open spot in a tight zone.

Touchdown #2 - Again, not explosive off the LOS but fast. Gives an ineffective juke on a stop-and-go. Nonetheless he swim moves and muscles through the defender - this could be illegal contact in the NFL - resulting in an easy throw for the QB.

Touchdown #3 - Explosive off the LOS, beats the press with his initial move, creates separation for the easiest of three TDs.

 

I know you'll say, "But he's playing against scrubs," but keep in mind you're also the one who asked for arena league tape breakdown. You honestly think I wouldn't have looked at it since I am virtually the only person who thinks he'd be a good addition? Just from the limited film it appears he still understands how to use his speed, size, strength, and knowledge to get open pretty easily. It comes as no surprise that he's basically leading the league in every receiving category per game.

 

How's that for a leg to stand on? IFL:NFL::AAA:MLB. If a future HoFer gets sent to the "minor leagues" and dominates the "minor leagues," then it makes sense that he's ready to move back up to the pros. He may not be an all-star any more, but he's still NFL-worthy over many others.

[lemonej]

I'm glad that the Bears are being stupid in this regard because I'm so tired of the Bears picking up guys in twilight of their careers and hoping they can recapture their production of their youth.It didn't happen with Roy Williams and Moose and it didn't happen when they traded for Ron Shanklin back in the day. Remember Howard Mudd,Mike Phipps,Leroy Caffey,Craig Baynham,Golden Richards,Cyde Simmons,Craig Cotton,Rick Mirer, Rueben Brown,Orlando Pace and Tom Carter to name a few since I have been watching Bears football? The one thing that you could say about TO for sure that was attractive is his durabilty. Now with 2 significant injuries recently that can no longer be said and points to declining skills IMO.

[CrackerDog]

Jason, nobody is buying your "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?" bullshit. You have to grade a player on everything, period. If he still has the legs and athletism to play NFL ball, he doesn't bring enough to the table to justify the risks. This dumb SOB might commit suicide in the middle of the season! He's an idiot and if you want him you can have him play on Jason's XBox Bears. The Chicago Bears don't need him.

[CrackerDog]

I'm glad that the Bears are being stupid in this regard because I'm so tired of the Bears picking up guys in twilight of their careers and hoping they can recapture their production of their youth.It didn't happen with Roy Williams and Moose and it didn't happen when they traded for Ron Shanklin back in the day. Remember Howard Mudd,Mike Phipps,Leroy Caffey,Craig Baynham,Golden Richards,Cyde Simmons,Craig Cotton,Rick Mirer, Rueben Brown,Orlando Pace and Tom Carter to name a few since I have been watching Bears football? The one thing that you could say about TO for sure that was attractive is his durabilty. Now with 2 significant injuries recently that can no longer be said and points to declining skills IMO.

 

You missed a few good ones... Alan Page, Jim Miller, Eric Kramer, Julius Peppers, etc.

[jason]

Jason, nobody is buying your "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?" bullshit. You have to grade a player on everything, period. If he still has the legs and athletism to play NFL ball, he doesn't bring enough to the table to justify the risks. This dumb SOB might commit suicide in the middle of the season! He's an idiot and if you want him you can have him play on Jason's XBox Bears. The Chicago Bears don't need him.

 

I have no clue what you're talking about in the beginning of your post. As for the bolded, the best I can say is, I graded what video there was available. Anyone who objectively looks at it would probably come to the same results I did.

 

The three valid reasons not to pick up TO:

1) lemon's point - Tired of the Bears picking up aging vets hoping to get their last few years of productivity

2) He's a bad apple, and his antics outweigh his value since a comparably skilled player could be had with much less grief

3) One views his talents and skills as being so greatly diminished that he isn't value added

 

The first two are legit, but his most recent NFL statistics and his domination of the NFL's minor leagues say that #3 is not legit.

 

I'm not all that excited about him, but playing devil's advocate on this issue is worthwhile because everyone who cries about the lack of a WR has been dismissing TO and Moss for years and years. And here they were, yet again available, and yet again they're being dismissed. It's as if people want to complain but don't want to actually look for difficult solutions. The perfect answer is not always available. Pointing to #1 and #2 above is not complaining. Pointing to #3 doesn't appear to be valid. I guess complaining is just easier.

 

What's so hard about dividing the issue? Does he, or does he not, have the physical skills to still play in the NFL? The answer is yes. Does his physical ability outweigh his baggage? Apparently not.

[CrackerDog]

It's as if people want to complain but don't want to actually look for difficult solutions. The perfect answer is not always available. Pointing to #1 and #2 above is not complaining. Pointing to #3 doesn't appear to be valid. I guess complaining is just easier.

 

What's so hard about dividing the issue? Does he, or does he not, have the physical skills to still play in the NFL? The answer is yes. Does his physical ability outweigh his baggage? Apparently not.

 

What do you think signing Marshall is? The Bears addressed WR in a big way this off season already. And he's probably all the head case one team can handle! At least he's got some history with Cutler that should help keep him on track.

 

And to your point about his skills, nobody here is granting you that point either. If you look at the film there appears to be some modest burst left on certain plays but I wouldn't call any of that compelling evidence. You're seeing what you want to see. And even if he's capable of being our #2, with his recent injury history, is he a guy you can count on for more than a few weeks before he blows out another part on his OLD body? I won't even go into the character issues and team cancer concerns which you've already conceded.

 

So basically what we're saying: Do the math dude. Stop trying to suggest that we're all whiners that then overlook gems you see just sitting out there waiting to be picked up. You can't polish a turd and he's one of the biggest turds in league history. I fully expect a meltdown of massive proportions from him when he runs completely out of money. And I hope it's big enough to keep him out of the HOF, because I for one, don't like it when dicks like TO make it in.

[CrackerDog]

PS. If TO has anything left, why isn't he heading up north to Canada instead of playing with the retards in the arena league? They pay better, there's more of a chance at "redemption" up there and he'd actually be playing better quality competition.

 

PSS. I fully expect you to drop a massive "I TOLD YOU SO" on all of us if TO happens to sign somewhere in the NFL this year and he behaves himself and plays at a reasonably high level. I don't care. As I sit here today, with what we know right now, he isn't someone I'd bring to my team.

[Pixote]

LOL, you guys are as stubborn as any posters I have seen here in over a decade.

[CrackerDog]

LOL, you guys are as stubborn as any posters I have seen here in over a decade.

 

Ha!

 

Pix, I wish we could kinda do a reverse "It's a Wonderful Life" where we'd see what the Bears would look like in 5 years after Jason was hired as GM. He clearly thinks he's got the right stuff, I'd love to see the results... That's all I'm sayin'.

 

[azbearsfan]

Ha!

 

Pix, I wish we could kinda do a reverse "It's a Wonderful Life" where we'd see what the Bears would look like in 5 years after Jason was hired as GM. He clearly thinks he's got the right stuff, I'd love to see the results... That's all I'm sayin'.

 

 

 

I would not like to see that.

 

 

Same dude that said Martz was a great hire and stuck by that, ad nauseam, ........just sayin

[Stinger226]

Ha!

 

Pix, I wish we could kinda do a reverse "It's a Wonderful Life" where we'd see what the Bears would look like in 5 years after Jason was hired as GM. He clearly thinks he's got the right stuff, I'd love to see the results... That's all I'm sayin'.

 

Actually he has some good thoughts, but not the TO thing. He is spot on with the Oline needs a LT thought.

[madlithuanian]

I remember some gems between cracker and nfoligno as well!

 

LOL, you guys are as stubborn as any posters I have seen here in over a decade.

 

[madlithuanian]

I'd still take jason over Angelo!

 

Ha!

 

Pix, I wish we could kinda do a reverse "It's a Wonderful Life" where we'd see what the Bears would look like in 5 years after Jason was hired as GM. He clearly thinks he's got the right stuff, I'd love to see the results... That's all I'm sayin'.

 

 

[jason]

What do you think signing Marshall is? The Bears addressed WR in a big way this off season already. And he's probably all the head case one team can handle! At least he's got some history with Cutler that should help keep him on track.

 

And to your point about his skills, nobody here is granting you that point either. If you look at the film there appears to be some modest burst left on certain plays but I wouldn't call any of that compelling evidence. You're seeing what you want to see. And even if he's capable of being our #2, with his recent injury history, is he a guy you can count on for more than a few weeks before he blows out another part on his OLD body? I won't even go into the character issues and team cancer concerns which you've already conceded.

 

So basically what we're saying: Do the math dude. Stop trying to suggest that we're all whiners that then overlook gems you see just sitting out there waiting to be picked up. You can't polish a turd and he's one of the biggest turds in league history. I fully expect a meltdown of massive proportions from him when he runs completely out of money. And I hope it's big enough to keep him out of the HOF, because I for one, don't like it when dicks like TO make it in.

 

I've conceded the math of attitude+skills

 

But this all started, and is in this thread about Chilo Rachal, because the logic of "if he sucks, just cut him, no harm no foul" was used. I still contend the same logic applies to TO. Further, this thread continued on because you've claimed his talents have eroded drastically. And I've yet to see someone concede the idea that no matter how much his talents have eroded, just on the minimal tape we have, he's better than most #3 WRs in the NFL. Just start there. Is that not a simple and logical statement?

 

As for the gem comment, this is more about WR than anything. All people have talked about for years is WR this and WR that. And for several years both TO and Moss have been available. And each year this topic arises on Bears' message boards only to be shouted down from the rafters because of the duo's admitted attitude problems. To me that is seeing a problem, complaining about the problem, and refusing to address the problem because you don't have the perfect solution. Sometimes you have to apply duct tape. That's all I'm saying, and all I have said. With his lessened talent, and nearly zero interest from the NFL, I have to think he knows this would be his last chance. And given his stats two years ago, I find it hard to believe he couldn't help this team more than Max Komar, Dane Sanzenbacher, and Devin Thomas. He starts shit? Cut him. He isn't as good as thought? Cut him. Easy.

[jason]

Ha!

 

Pix, I wish we could kinda do a reverse "It's a Wonderful Life" where we'd see what the Bears would look like in 5 years after Jason was hired as GM. He clearly thinks he's got the right stuff, I'd love to see the results... That's all I'm sayin'.

 

 

Good Lord...I wish that too. There would have been hits and misses (saddens me to think we wouldn't have had Urlacher), but I have no doubt in my mind we'd have been better than we have been over the last 5 - 10 years. We may not have had some of the better defensive picks that have come from later rounds, but we would have been much more solid offensively, would have had a much more steady/solid OL, would have been more dynamic on offense with plenty of pass-catching options, and azbearsfan, Martz would have been a success in Chicago as a result (he failed primarily because the OL was shit his entire time here; it's not up for debate - all other problems fixed with a stronger OL).

 

1st Round quick hitters:

-I loved Moss

-I hated Enis

-I loved Mike Williams

-I hated the Benson pick

[jason]

Actually he has some good thoughts, but not the TO thing. He is spot on with the Oline needs a LT thought.

 

Likewise. It's all in good spirits. When people vehemently disagree, it's difficult to change the other's opinion.

[CrackerDog]

Likewise. It's all in good spirits. When people vehemently disagree, it's difficult to change the other's opinion.

 

Hell, even though we disagree on TO and your abilities as GM, I still enjoy arguing with you and expect it'll always be in good spirits.

 

And dude, you shot yourself down on being a good GM when you admitted missing on Urlacher. Sheesh. The guy is going into the HOF and you wanted who instead?

[CrackerDog]

I would not like to see that.

 

 

Same dude that said Martz was a great hire and stuck by that, ad nauseam, ........just sayin

 

I'm not saying I want Jason to be GM, just that like in the movie It's a Wonderful Life, it would be cool to see how the team would turn out after 5 years of his picks. I'm guessing we'd be the second team to go 0-16 in NFL history.

 

It would be a "free look" at the future with no actual damage done to the Bears.

 

PS. I liked the Martz hire too so I guess we're both idiots there. I didn't think he'd be as stupidly stubborn as he turned out to be.

[azbearsfan]

I'm not saying I want Jason to be GM, just that like in the movie It's a Wonderful Life, it would be cool to see how the team would turn out after 5 years of his picks. I'm guessing we'd be the second team to go 0-16 in NFL history.

 

It would be a "free look" at the future with no actual damage done to the Bears.

 

PS. I liked the Martz hire too so I guess we're both idiots there. I didn't think he'd be as stupidly stubborn as he turned out to be.

 

 

Cool ,cool.

 

 

But there is a difference between liking the Martz hire at the time, and defending him at the end of a two year debacle.

[jason]

Hell, even though we disagree on TO and your abilities as GM, I still enjoy arguing with you and expect it'll always be in good spirits.

 

And dude, you shot yourself down on being a good GM when you admitted missing on Urlacher. Sheesh. The guy is going into the HOF and you wanted who instead?

 

C'MON! Virtually nobody hit on Urlacher! He was a Safety that got turned into a MLB. I guarantee that wasn't mentioned on most Bears boards at the time.