4 Reasons Why Alshon Jeffery Must Start

[Wesson44]

You did that out of pure boredom, didn't you? Lol

 

What you guys qwont let it rest will you? When I said bigger, and taller is not always better I'm speeaking of the overall positions....like the 6'9 TE we had in camp he didnt make it. But with other positions as such like WR ,taller WR have an advantage over a shorter DB that why no one can guard Calvin Johnson from the Lions....you know this so stop reaching.

['TD']

What you guys qwont let it rest will you? When I said bigger, and taller is not always better I'm speeaking of the overall positions....like the 6'9 TE we had in camp he didnt make it. But with other positions as such like WR ,taller WR have an advantage over a shorter DB that why no one can guard Calvin Johnson from the Lions....you know this so stop reaching.

 

Calvin Johnson is just that good. His height is enhances his ability, but doesn't define it. Case in point is Wes Welker. He had 26 catches more than Johnson and 22 more than anyone else in the league last year. The guy is only 5'9" and a whopping 8"s shorter than Johnson.

 

Height is a tool that some WR's can utilize occasionally to their advantage, no doubt. It's just a tool and a minor in most circumstances. Jump balls are not the norm on most plays. It's just not a defining trait.

 

The Bears investment in Jeffery is only a second round pick (5th to with the trade up). His contract is also relatively small. Keep in mind, they have 2 players capable of starting opposite of Marshall.

 

To sum it up, The Bears haven't bet the farm on Jeffery. They aren't in desperate need of a starter. The one tool he has over the other WR's isn't a position defining trait. WR is one of the harder positions to transition into the NFL. He hasn't even worn pads yet in the NFL. He shouldn't be given the starting spot, but should he earn it I'll be cheering him on.

[Wesson44]

Calvin Johnson is just that good. His height is enhances his ability, but doesn't define it. Case in point is Wes Welker. He had 26 catches more than Johnson and 22 more than anyone else in the league last year. The guy is only 5'9" and a whopping 8"s shorter than Johnson.

 

Height is a tool that some WR's can utilize occasionally to their advantage, no doubt. It's just a tool and a minor in most circumstances. Jump balls are not the norm on most plays. It's just not a defining trait.

 

The Bears investment in Jeffery is only a second round pick (5th to with the trade up). His contract is also relatively small. Keep in mind, they have 2 players capable of starting opposite of Marshall.

 

To sum it up, The Bears haven't bet the farm on Jeffery. They aren't in desperate need of a starter. The one tool he has over the other WR's isn't a position defining trait. WR is one of the harder positions to transition into the NFL. He hasn't even worn pads yet in the NFL. He shouldn't be given the starting spot, but should he earn it I'll be cheering him on.

 

Yes i see what you are trying to say, but the Bears did need a starter thats why they traded for Marshall and drafted Jeffrey.Now if Wes was taller then he would maybe not have missed the pass that sent the Patriots home from the Superbowl. Also Wes Welker is the patriots best Wr so yes they throw to him like 120 times a year.

 

Now i never said that short players are at a disadvantage in the NFL but you know the saying "size does matter" and yes it will not always give you the advantage. but in certain situations it is very well an advantage. I know Hester and Bennett can start on the other side of Marshall.....but just remember what your QB asked for "it would be nice to have WR's that are 6'2 and up"

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Look, I can't help it if he doesn't have a dictionary and can't read the definition for the word "automatically."

 

Wesson's starting offensive lineup:

 

QB - Thomas Jones - Afterall, a bigger arm means stronger throws.

RB - Usain Bolt - Dude is the fastest guy on the planet, right?

FB - Bryant McKinnie - 6'8", 360lbs. He would obviously be the best FB of all time. Who could stop him?

WR - Luc Longley. Thanks for that one TD

WR - Omer Asik. Gotta go with another Bull.

TE - Ali Villanueva. 6'11", 285lbs. HA! Cutler just has to throw it in the air like Jeff Blake! UNSTOPPABLE.

LT - Konishiki

LG - John Brower Minnoch - 1400lbs. Try to get around him!

C - Toniu Fonoti - At 320lbs or so he's obviously the lightest, but we need a player at this position who can see past his gut to touch the ball.

RG - Manuel Uribe - 1300lbs. Best OG tandem ever?

RT - Akebono

 

In all seriousness, if bigger were always better, Wes Welker wouldn't have made the NFL, and the Denver Broncos OL wouldn't have been one of the best for all those years when it was one of the lightest. Although, I wouldn't mind seeing Cutler stand in the pocket behind the fat-OL above for the series they play before they got tired.

I just don't get the whole "if Jennings could jump and Marshall couldn't, Jennings still would have no chance for the INT" point he made.

[Wesson44]

I just don't get the whole "if Jennings could jump and Marshall couldn't, Jennings still would have no chance for the INT" point he made.

 

I dont either...because the whole point about height is this....if you are 6'0 and you stand behind your kid that's 4'11 if you both raise your hands in the air....then I throw you the ball to your hands...who is going to catch it without the kid jumpimg(like I said) you will. Marshall/Jeffrey against 5'11 DB's is the same situation.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I dont either...because the whole point about height is this....if you are 6'0 and you stand behind your kid that's 4'11 if you both raise your hands in the air....then I throw you the ball to your hands...who is going to catch it without the kid jumpimg(like I said) you will. Marshall/Jeffrey against 5'11 DB's is the same situation.

When would a corner stand in front of a wide receiver and not jump for a ball that takes half of a jump to make an interception?

[Wesson44]

When would a corner stand in front of a wide receiver and not jump for a ball that takes half of a jump to make an interception?

Ok then they both jump....the taller player still has an advantage. You are reading too deep into the comment

[adam]

Height advantage:

[jason]

Height advantage:

 

My favorite example of a height advantage:

 

[jason]

I just don't get the whole "if Jennings could jump and Marshall couldn't, Jennings still would have no chance for the INT" point he made.

 

Me either. Football doesn't exist in a vaccuum, and laying out the hypotheticals like he does just doesn't make sense. Tall WRs get shutdown by shorter DBs too frequently to even quantify. The two or three times per game the tall WR has a physical advantage because of pure height - which may be less than that depending on scheme and/or comparative jumping ability of the WR/DB in question - makes the whole point nonsensical. All things being equal, yes, a taller WR has an advantage. But all things aren't equal. Give me a WR corp full of Wes Welkers and I'll give you an unstoppable offense like the 91 Houston Oilers. Conversely, give me a WR corp full of David Terrells and I'll show you a team that has to run a lot.

[Wesson44]

My favorite example of a height advantage:

 

 

 

 

First of all when you are trying to make your point you should pick a video that makes your point. This dunk was over a guy even though he was tall than Carter he just stood there,didnt raise his arms, didnt jump, and lowered his head so Carter could jump over him. How watch this video of how the taller Jeffrey out jumped the DB to make this catch. This is height advantage.

 

[madlithuanian]

I understand all the viewpoints here...but let's just put it to rest and say that the better player usually comes up with the ball...regardless of shorter or taller. I hope Jeffrey is the "better" player...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoRzn3ZVTa0

 

 

First of all when you are trying to make your point you should pick a video that makes your point. This dunk was over a guy even though he was tall than Carter he just stood there,didnt raise his arms, didnt jump, and lowered his head so Carter could jump over him. How watch this video of how the taller Jeffrey out jumped the DB to make this catch. This is height advantage.

 

[Wesson44]

Me either. Football doesn't exist in a vaccuum, and laying out the hypotheticals like he does just doesn't make sense. Tall WRs get shutdown by shorter DBs too frequently to even quantify. The two or three times per game the tall WR has a physical advantage because of pure height - which may be less than that depending on scheme and/or comparative jumping ability of the WR/DB in question - makes the whole point nonsensical. All things being equal, yes, a taller WR has an advantage. But all things aren't equal. Give me a WR corp full of Wes Welkers and I'll give you an unstoppable offense like the 91 Houston Oilers. Conversely, give me a WR corp full of David Terrells and I'll show you a team that has to run a lot.

First off you say this "All things being equal, yes, a taller WR has an advantage" that's my whole point. Now you use Wes Welker as your eaxmple....ok fine he is a good WR for the Patriots....but he is a slot WR who always gets open against LB's and nickel DB's....... just like Bennett. But in the red zone he is used on slants and outs routes not fades or jump balls because of his height. Now to stress this point watch the video of Bradys year in 2007 and see how Moss. Gaffney Watson and the TE and LB are used (all of them are taller than Welker)in the red zone. And by the way David Terrell sucked and you know that.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOgKfkJNSEo

 

Now you need to go back and see just why Cutler asked for WR's that are 6'2 and above..because he knows that with the height of these players Marshall 6'4, Jeffrey 6'3, Davis 6'7 .......he can make throws that he couldn't make with Hester. Bennett & Knox at 6'0 and below. This gives him and the team an advantage in the passing game no matter how much you want to disagree.Look at this years draft...out of the nine WR's taken in the first 2 rounds, 7 were 6'1 and above while two were 6'0 or below.So height does play a part....now many teams can you name that have a whole team of WR's that are 5'9 like Wes Welker? I'll tell you NONE of them!!

[jason]

First off you say this "All things being equal, yes, a taller WR has an advantage" that's my whole point. Now you use Wes Welker as your eaxmple....ok fine he is a good WR for the Patriots....but he is a slot WR who always gets open against LB's and nickel DB's....... just like Bennett. But in the red zone he is used on slants and outs routes not fades or jump balls because of his height. Now to stress this point watch the video of Bradys year in 2007 and see how Moss. Gaffney Watson and the TE and LB are used (all of them are taller than Welker)in the red zone. And by the way David Terrell sucked and you know that.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOgKfkJNSEo

 

Now you need to go back and see just why Cutler asked for WR's that are 6'2 and above..because he knows that with the height of these players Marshall 6'4, Jeffrey 6'3, Davis 6'7 .......he can make throws that he couldn't make with Hester. Bennett & Knox at 6'0 and below. This gives him and the team an advantage in the passing game no matter how much you want to disagree.Look at this years draft...out of the nine WR's taken in the first 2 rounds, 7 were 6'1 and above while two were 6'0 or below.So height does play a part....now many teams can you name that have a whole team of WR's that are 5'9 like Wes Welker? I'll tell you NONE of them!!

 

If that's your point, you should have just said so. We would all have understood it. But the way you've presented the info over and over makes it look like you think someone is better just because he's taller. Which isn't true because, all things aren't equal.

 

Yes, if each player in the league has the same strength, quickness, jumping ability, dexterity, hand-eye coordination, similar hand width and strength, ability to keep speed out of a cut, etc., etc., etc., then the guy who is taller has an advantage. But, again, all things are not equal. Give me Welker over Gaffney 8 days out of the week. Same goes for just about all but 5 or 6 WRs in the NFL, because, all things aren't equal. These guys aren't Ford assembly line productions. They are different in too numerous ways to count. Which is why simply clamoring for a taller player - the David Terrell example is perfect because he was taller and wasn't very good - doesn't make sense. Taller and extremely talented? Sure. But just being tall doesn't make them better. For the last time, all things aren't equal.

 

BTW - I love that the video you linked starts off with Welker juking a DB for a TD. Classic!

[jason]

What's funny about that video is that only eight of those TDs occurred because a player was taller or could jump higher. Hell, the first 11 had nothing to do with height. Out of the 8 TDs, there were 5 jump balls to Moss. And Moss can jump out of the gym; he's a genetic freak. Other than that, there are two fade passes (one each to Watson and Gaffney) that were directly affected by height, and one play that Moss made that was simply nasty in double coverage (the announcer called it a jump ball, but Moss actually caught it pretty low).

 

So, 58 total TDs in that video. Eight were greatly aided by the WR height. If that's the best example you have, it's not a good one.

[Wesson44]

What's funny about that video is that only eight of those TDs occurred because a player was taller or could jump higher. Hell, the first 11 had nothing to do with height. Out of the 8 TDs, there were 5 jump balls to Moss. And Moss can jump out of the gym; he's a genetic freak. Other than that, there are two fade passes (one each to Watson and Gaffney) that were directly affected by height, and one play that Moss made that was simply nasty in double coverage (the announcer called it a jump ball, but Moss actually caught it pretty low).

 

So, 58 total TDs in that video. Eight were greatly aided by the WR height. If that's the best example you have, it's not a good one.

 

LOL thanks...but did you count how many times Wes Welker was in those 'eight of those TDs occurred because a player was taller or could jump higher' your answer....none. But as it goes you just said what the whole point was about in the first place...... height is an added advantage. PERIOD. Well I can show you many videos of smaller DB's being used by the taller WR all day but i was just sticking to the players we have or the ones you brought up.......but here is one for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgoKAGRvm0U...feature=related

[jason]

LOL thanks...but did you count how many times Wes Welker was in those 'eight of those TDs occurred because a player was taller or could jump higher' your answer....none. But as it goes you just said what the whole point was about in the first place......height is an added advantage. PERIOD. Well I can show you many videos of smaller DB's being used by the taller WR all day but i was just sticking to the players we have or the ones you brought up.......but here is one for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgoKAGRvm0U...feature=related

 

I did notice, however, he had more TDs total than the number of TDs requiring someone to simply be taller and/or have great jumping ability. For the record, the two are not necessarily linked. In other words, it's possible for someone to be shorter, have greater jumping ability, and still win the jump ball. And that kind of invalidates the whole point of the video you most recently posted (especially since a lot of the highlights have virtually nothing to do with height).

 

At least acknowledge that you understand the basic premise that height, in and of itself, is not necessarily an advantage, but all other things being equal (which only exists in a fantasy world), a taller player has an advantage over a shorter player. I only ask because you continue to ignore the basic concept, and only focus on the guys like Moss, Fitz, AJ, TO, and Megatron who are more than equal in many ways beyond simply their height.

[Wesson44]

I did notice, however, he had more TDs total than the number of TDs requiring someone to simply be taller and/or have great jumping ability. For the record, the two are not necessarily linked. In other words, it's possible for someone to be shorter, have greater jumping ability, and still win the jump ball. And that kind of invalidates the whole point of the video you most recently posted (especially since a lot of the highlights have virtually nothing to do with height).

 

At least acknowledge that you understand the basic premise that height, in and of itself, is not necessarily an advantage, but all other things being equal (which only exists in a fantasy world), a taller player has an advantage over a shorter player. I only ask because you continue to ignore the basic concept, and only focus on the guys like Moss, Fitz, AJ, TO, and Megatron who are more than equal in many ways beyond simply their height.

 

Ok here it is, I agree that the way Welker is used gives him lots of scoring chances due to his ability to get open but he is never thrown a fade route or jump ball in the red zone due to his lack of height. I also agree that the 5'9 DJ Moore has great leaping ability and can win some jump balls (he can dunk a basketball too) but more often than not would you agree that the taller WR wins those battles.I already told you that height in and by itself is not always an advantage but would you agree that it is. I focus on those guys because they have height. Now lets reverse it were there is a 6'4 DB guarding an 5'10 WR. Do you think more often than not the WR wins this jump ball battle? No I dont think so. As you keep saying all tings being equal isnt a valid point because if one is shorter and one is taller then they are not equal. Like you said "it's possible for someone to be shorter, have greater jumping ability, and still win the jump ball" and here is a video to prove just that, but you have to agree like I do with you that height is an advantage and not always a disadvantage. All the videos valid my point about height being an advantage, you have never made a point or shown a video were it was a disadvantage. You made up a roster...which was funny with Jones at QB with the big arms....but he doesnt play QB so no to that. The 1400lb Oline men come on they wouldnt even make the team 7'0 and 6'11 at WR....back in the day the Chiefs had a WR that was 6'9....oh but he's in the HOF now because he was taller than all the DB in the NFL. Oh the Eagles had one too.

 

[jason]

Ok here it is, I agree that the way Welker is used gives him lots of scoring chances due to his ability to get open but he is never thrown a fade route or jump ball in the red zone due to his lack of height. I also agree that the 5'9 DJ Moore has great leaping ability and can win some jump balls (he can dunk a basketball too) but more often than not would you agree that the taller WR wins those battles. I already told you that height in and by itself is not always an advantage but would you agree that it is. I focus on those guys because they have height. Now lets reverse it were there is a 6'4 DB guarding an 5'10 WR. Do you think more often than not the WR wins this jump ball battle? No I dont think so. As you keep saying all tings being equal isnt a valid point because if one is shorter and one is taller then they are not equal. Like you said "it's possible for someone to be shorter, have greater jumping ability, and still win the jump ball" and here is a video to prove just that, but you have to agree like I do with you that height is an advantage and not always a disadvantage. All the videos valid my point about height being an advantage, you have never made a point or shown a video were it was a disadvantage. You made up a roster...which was funny with Jones at QB with the big arms....but he doesnt play QB so no to that. The 1400lb Oline men come on they wouldnt even make the team 7'0 and 6'11 at WR....back in the day the Chiefs had a WR that was 6'9....oh but he's in the HOF now because he was taller than all the DB in the NFL. Oh the Eagles had one too.

 

 

This is not intended to be mean, but you have reading comprehension issues. You do not appear to understand what "all other things being equal" or "in and of itself" means. Similarly, you still don't seem to understand the basic concepts of this discussion (i.e. height doesn't have to be a "disadvantage" for someone taller to lose to someone shorter).

 

 

[Wesson44]

This is not intended to be mean, but you have reading comprehension issues. You do not appear to understand what "all other things being equal" or "in and of itself" means. Similarly, you still don't seem to understand the basic concepts of this discussion (i.e. height doesn't have to be a "disadvantage" for someone taller to lose to someone shorter).

 

Well its not taken as you being mean but rather that you lost your points trying to plead your case. You know that height is an advantage because if it wasnt then the whole NFL would have WR', that are 5'9 like Welker(your man) but coaches, owners and players as well know that height is an advantage. Ask your QB Culter what he wanted and got this off season two guys at 6'4 and 6'3 and 6'2 WR/ST guy. Ask Fitzgerald who he wanted at WR on the other side of him...not the 5'11 kid from Baylor but the 6'4 Floyd. You are shying away from the basic concept of how height creates a mismatch an on offense as a WR it is an advantage. Question....would Doug flutie been a better QB if he could stand in the pocket at 6'4 and see downfield...instead of having to roll out to gain vision at 5'8? Oh and how many QB's are in the NFL starting at 6'0 and below? Not many

 

If you use the phrase "all other things being equal" you have lost because they are not equal

 

 

BTW in your post where you mentioned the "unstoppable offense like the 91 Houston Oilers" well they were lead in receiving by the 6'2 Haywood Jeffires not the 5'9 and 5'11 other two.

 

This is the last post about this from me...sure you are going to try to say something clever but you points are not valis so admit you lost. In this NFL today height and weight are an advantage for some positions and maybe a disadvantage at others...case closed.

[jason]

I decided to leave this post alone since the grasp of English is lacking, but I found an interesting tidbit from PFW (qouting a scout/coach/front office member) that relates:

 

"In a lot of offenses, Wes Welker would be a slot guy only. He's smart and tough and likeable and gets the job done, but he is not close to being in the same category as a Greg Jennings or Calvin or Andre Johnson in the way of being a physically gifted receiver. Do you remember when Mike Furrey caught (nearly) 100 (passes) and Roy Williams was the only other receiver and then they picked Calvin Johnson with the second pick? Stats can really skew a players' view of talent. Remember when Houston was running the run-and-shoot with Drew Hill, Earnest Givens, and Haywood Jeffries? Jeffries had the most catches many years, but he caught a bunch of hitches and slants and was the third most talented receiver of the group. It's a similar story in New England."

[Mongo3451]

I decided to leave this post alone since the grasp of English is lacking, but I found an interesting tidbit from PFW (qouting a scout/coach/front office member) that relates:

 

"In a lot of offenses, Wes Welker would be a slot guy only. He's smart and tough and likeable and gets the job done, but he is not close to being in the same category as a Greg Jennings or Calvin or Andre Johnson in the way of being a physically gifted receiver. Do you remember when Mike Furrey caught (nearly) 100 (passes) and Roy Williams was the only other receiver and then they picked Calvin Johnson with the second pick? Stats can really skew a players' view of talent. Remember when Houston was running the run-and-shoot with Drew Hill, Earnest Givens, and Haywood Jeffries? Jeffries had the most catches many years, but he caught a bunch of hitches and slants and was the third most talented receiver of the group. It's a similar story in New England."

I'm perplexed. It seems like you are supporting Wessons' assertion that bigger recievers do indeed have an advantage.

 

I really don't want to join the debate over who or what is better, because I think great receivers occur in all shapes and sizes.

 

The original post was weather Jeffery is better and more suited to start over Hester.(which I find unfounded due to Jeffereys' lack of EVER playing against NFL DB's)

[Wesson44]

I'm perplexed. It seems like you are supporting Wessons' assertion that bigger recievers do indeed have an advantage.

 

I really don't want to join the debate over who or what is better, because I think great receivers occur in all shapes and sizes.

 

The original post was weather Jeffery is better and more suited to start over Hester.(which I find unfounded due to Jeffereys' lack of EVER playing against NFL DB's)

 

Mongo dont be perplexed "I'm perplexed. It seems like you are supporting Wessons' assertion that bigger recievers do indeed have an advantage"[/b]Well its the truth. Listen to what 5'9 DJ Moore said and how he did against the 6'4 Marshall in camp so far. This will apply to most DB's that are 6'0 and below this year. Jason disagreement with me is to just stress his points, but he knows good and well that height and weight does have an advantage in certain situations and positions.Everything he says you can go back and see that he either agrees with me at some point or uses examples to get off the topic.. houston Oliers offense he stated he would rather have, but the star WR was 6'2 not 5'9. Welker is a good WR, but is a slot WR not getting jump ball type throws thrown to him.I will agree with you that good WR come in all shapes and sizes as you said, but if you look at history the taller ones do indeed have an advantage the shorter ones dont.And the shorter ones do have an advantage the taller one dont also. They tend to be quicker, get lost in crowds so they are open and teams don't double team team leaving them one on one with a third DB or LB. Now as for jeffrey he is a true WR as Hester is not and does things when the ball is in the air that Hester has not done. Like going fter the ball, catching it at it's highest point.. of out jumping the DB and taking the ball away from the DB in close situations. Marshall and Jeffreys are going to be a beast to deal with this year. Now you say that Jeffrey starting is unfounded.....why because he has not played in the NFL.....Really. How many rookies start eery year in the NFL that have never played a down in th NFL? Thats not a good statement to make. So you think the Colts, Redsikins, and Brons drafted Luck, Griffin and Richarson all to sit on the bench? These rookies will be starting

 

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/chicago/play?id=8135826

[Mongo3451]

Now you say that Jeffrey starting is unfounded.....why because he has not played in the NFL.....Really. How many rookies start eery year in the NFL that have never played a down in th NFL? Thats not a good statement to make. So you think the Colts, Redsikins, and Brons drafted Luck, Griffin and Richarson all to sit on the bench? These rookies will be starting

 

The difference between Jeffery and the ones you list is pedigree. Jeffery is a second rounder. Luck, RG and Richardson are considered "can't miss" prospects. Jeffery has question marks he will have to answer in TC before he EARNS his position.

 

Of course you may be validated by Lovie "Rex Grossman is our quarterback" Smith.

[Wesson44]

The difference between Jeffery and the ones you list is pedigree. Jeffery is a second rounder. Luck, RG and Richardson are considered "can't miss" prospects. Jeffery has question marks he will have to answer in TC before he EARNS his position.

 

Of course you may be validated by Lovie "Rex Grossman is our quarterback" Smith.

Well thats true in what you say and he will have to earn the starting spot, but more times than not when a team drafts a player for need instead of best player at the spot, the rookie will play because the talent level of the starter was not what the club wanted or needed.