No post game thread?

[AZ54]

I'll check out the game on NFL Network tomorrow but I'm surprised nobody has any comments yet. From the highlights I've seen it appears our Oline played well, not dominant but good enough to allow the playmakers time to do their thing. The Cutler to Marshall connection is definitely alive and well.

 

 

[Stinger226]

I'll check out the game on NFL Network tomorrow but I'm surprised nobody has any comments yet. From the highlights I've seen it appears our Oline played well, not dominant but good enough to allow the playmakers time to do their thing. The Cutler to Marshall connection is definitely alive and well.

Its a preseason game,but it has signs of some good things to come.

[Mongo3451]

I'll check out the game on NFL Network tomorrow but I'm surprised nobody has any comments yet. From the highlights I've seen it appears our Oline played well, not dominant but good enough to allow the playmakers time to do their thing. The Cutler to Marshall connection is definitely alive and well.

I haven't seen it, but NFL Network will replay at 4 today. I want to focus on OL again. It will probably be tomorrow before I update. Maybe you or Jason can get to it first.

 

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Webb and Williams played OK, but I think Webb was better jus because he always had some help.

Rachal was a better blocker than Spencer but had a few penalties.

Cutler was great.

Bush played well.

Jeffery continues to play well.

McClellin was nowhere to be found in the first half, but Idonije and Peppers played well as did Melton.

I hope Conte and Podlesh are OK.

[jason]

I'll check out the game on NFL Network tomorrow but I'm surprised nobody has any comments yet. From the highlights I've seen it appears our Oline played well, not dominant but good enough to allow the playmakers time to do their thing. The Cutler to Marshall connection is definitely alive and well.

 

I haven't seen it yet. It hasn't been replayed on NFL network.

[AZ54]

Finally got to sit down with the DVR for a bit and watch the game. I was surprised at how often Washington brought pressure. The Oline held up ok on most blitzes but there were some miscommunications. We didn't get great support from our RB and TE blockers. Overall a step forward this week versus week 1. Nothing I saw gives me confidence Cutler will ever have more than 3 seconds to throw the ball but in those 3 seconds our WRs can now get open.

 

Run blocking...there were some holes this week too. Effective running down in the redzone was nice to see.

 

Cutler looked confident running the offense even if it wasn't a perfect day for him.

 

WR...Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffrey both look good. We will be tough to defend. I don't see Jeffrey ready to start yet but he could have that role by midseason. At a minimum this year we have the best depth we've had at WR in a very long time. Even Weems seems like he'll be able to contribute as a WR and he's a better athlete than Rashied Davis.

 

TE...didn't notice them much for their blocking or pass receiving other than Rodriguez standing out late in the game. Rodriguez struggles against blizting players but out in the open field he's a good receiver and more agile in the open field than Greg Olsen was. If he is effective on special teams I expect he'll have a role this season on game days.

 

RBs...Bush is more nimble than I thought in both running and pass catching.

 

DLine...pressure coming from all directions was nice to see. It wasn't always consistent from the same source but on each play it seemed someone broke through to force RGIII to move out of the pocket. SMC didn't show up as much as he did against Denver but he did some good things. The Bears have no hesitation about dropping him into zone coverage.

 

LBs...I didn't focus much on their play and nothing really stood out but Costanzo made a couple nice plays. The coaches put him in at MLB early pushing Roach back to SLB. This might be the starting combination we see next game against the Giants.

 

Secondary....these guys clearly have had little practice tackling. Not the best angles and not the best technique and the injuries show that. A lot of teams are going through the same issues. A good pass rush made coverage issues less important. Can we keep that going?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jason]

I watched the game on DVR and focused solely on the OL.

 

LT

Webb played subpar. He is susceptible to interior rushes, was directly accountable for a sack (outside rush forced QB forward too early), and rarely stands out.

Williams easily played better, but he is susceptible to some outside moves.

What's interesting is the Bears did most of their work towards the right side of the line.

LG

Spencer didn't look that good. He got beat inside, outside, got pushed back, and missed a blitz pickup.

Rachal actually looked better, but he's woefully slow on pulling plays

C

Garza looked pretty good the entire game. Never amazing, but never bad.

RG

Louis actually looked better than any other OLineman. He got the second level multiple times and was responsible for some great plays.

RT

Carimi needs to maintain his blocks throughout the play and drive the DE upfield a little more. On a few plays he let his DE go upfield a little too easily, and on others he fought hard. But when he fought hard and the play went inside (i.e. the QB stepped up or there was a move forward) he tended to let his man go. More than once that man made the tackle.

 

The starting OL, based upon the first two preseason games, should be as follows:

Williams - Spencer - Garza - Louis - Carimi

 

And the Bears should immediately start scouting for LGs in the 2013 draft. Side note: Remember everyone saying the Bears didn't need an OG? David DeCastro sure would look good at LG right now.

[Guest TerraTor]

McClellin was terrible.. If he isnt at least tried as a backer hell be gone in two years

 

Webb has no business on the field nor does Spencer

 

Conte needs to learn how to tackle

 

Roach is clueless

-------------

 

Jeffrey will be opposite Marshall for Week 1

 

Peppers' musta got yelled at last week

 

Cutler looks completely different

 

 

 

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

McClellin was terrible.. If he isnt at least tried as a backer hell be gone in two years

 

Webb has no business on the field nor does Spencer

I didn't think Webb was bad vs WSH. Spencer was, though.

 

Conte needs to learn how to tackle

 

Roach is clueless

How?

 

-------------

 

Jeffrey will be opposite Marshall for Week 1

 

Peppers' musta got yelled at last week

???

 

Cutler looks completely different

 

[Mongo3451]

I did an OL/DL analysis.

 

DL:

 

Loved the NASCAR package. It was like a jailbreak. Good to see we took a page from NYG's playbook. I wonder if we'll see Peppers play inside on any passing downs. Not going to focus on the DL much, as I think they are going to be as good as I've seen from this team in 20+ years.

 

OL:

 

I thought they played better as a whole.

 

Carimi - He was worst of the 3 tackles. To me, he is not setting his achor very well. Definately could use a little more weight. He's probably lighter this year to help the knee.

 

Louis - Love this guy. Easily our best run blocker, nasty attitude ans was mistake free in pass protection. He was our best OL in last game.

 

Garza - Solid as ever

 

Spencer - Geez he was bloody awefull in every aspect of the game. Rachal looked better, but not enough to look good. We could be in trouble here.

 

Webb - Made only one bonehead mistake on a running play. I think this kid is lazy, but can truly see his upside. He may have as much talent as anyone. I thought he played really well. When he's engaged, he moves people.

 

Williams - Mistake free game from him. He just has no power, as he struggles to hold his own on every play. But... He holds his own on every play. If it were up to me, I would start him over Webb. But, Webb definately has a future if he wants one.

 

If Webb beats Williams for the starting LT spot, I think they need to strongly consider trying to find a servicable swing tackle and move Williams back to G. Spencer/Rachal were that bad.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I did an OL/DL analysis.

 

DL:

 

Loved the NASCAR package. It was like a jailbreak. Good to see we took a page from NYG's playbook. I wonder if we'll see Peppers play inside on any passing downs. Not going to focus on the DL much, as I think they are going to be as good as I've seen from this team in 20+ years.

 

OL:

 

I thought they played better as a whole.

 

Carimi - He was worst of the 3 tackles. To me, he is not setting his achor very well. Definately could use a little more weight. He's probably lighter this year to help the knee.

After the Broncos game, Von Miller said "Carimi is a beast." I'm not too worried about him.

 

Louis - Love this guy. Easily our best run blocker, nasty attitude ans was mistake free in pass protection. He was our best OL in last game.

 

Garza - Solid as ever

 

Spencer - Geez he was bloody awefull in every aspect of the game. Rachal looked better, but not enough to look good. We could be in trouble here.

Like I said, Spencer was terrible in blocking but I think Rachal had more penalties. Rachal is the better blocker but is probably a dumber player.

 

Webb - Made only one bonehead mistake on a running play. I think this kid is lazy, but can truly see his upside. He may have as much talent as anyone. I thought he played really well. When he's engaged, he moves people.

 

Williams - Mistake free game from him. He just has no power, as he struggles to hold his own on every play. But... He holds his own on every play. If it were up to me, I would start him over Webb. But, Webb definately has a future if he wants one.

 

If Webb beats Williams for the starting LT spot, I think they need to strongly consider trying to find a servicable swing tackle and move Williams back to G. Spencer/Rachal were that bad.

 

[jason]

I did an OL/DL analysis.

 

DL:

 

Loved the NASCAR package. It was like a jailbreak. Good to see we took a page from NYG's playbook. I wonder if we'll see Peppers play inside on any passing downs. Not going to focus on the DL much, as I think they are going to be as good as I've seen from this team in 20+ years.

 

OL:

 

I thought they played better as a whole.

 

Carimi - He was worst of the 3 tackles. To me, he is not setting his achor very well. Definately could use a little more weight. He's probably lighter this year to help the knee.

 

Louis - Love this guy. Easily our best run blocker, nasty attitude ans was mistake free in pass protection. He was our best OL in last game.

 

Garza - Solid as ever

 

Spencer - Geez he was bloody awefull in every aspect of the game. Rachal looked better, but not enough to look good. We could be in trouble here.

 

Webb - Made only one bonehead mistake on a running play. I think this kid is lazy, but can truly see his upside. He may have as much talent as anyone. I thought he played really well. When he's engaged, he moves people.

 

Williams - Mistake free game from him. He just has no power, as he struggles to hold his own on every play. But... He holds his own on every play. If it were up to me, I would start him over Webb. But, Webb definately has a future if he wants one.

 

If Webb beats Williams for the starting LT spot, I think they need to strongly consider trying to find a servicable swing tackle and move Williams back to G. Spencer/Rachal were that bad.

 

Did you watch the same game? Webb most definitely didn't play well.

 

First of all, the Redskins, for some ridiculous reason, used slant-rushing towards the gaps and didn't attack Webb much. Not a solid move on their part, but it helped hide Webb's deficiencies. On top of that, the Bears ran right as a probable way to avoid the weak side of the line (focus on the strength). And, of course, Tice is holding true on his promise to help the OL with lots and lots of double TE sets. I think it's sad that the Bears have to employ a double-TE set with what amounts to at least 6 Linemen, but that's just me. I'd rather have a good OL that can do their job, and use the TE for more of an attacking role. Having said that...

 

The first ISO of the game that Webb got was a shotgun play and he got pushed straight back into Cutler, causing the throw to be a bit quicker than necessary (for what it's worth, Carimi got pushed back too). On the second series Webb got destroyed on an inside move, but he was just lucky that the run was to the right. If that run goes left, it's a loss behind the LOS.

 

He certainly had some good plays, had a few good pushes, and one memorable seal block, but he didn't really play well. At best he gets average, and you're right about Williams; he did better than Webb.

 

And yes, Spencer looked awful.

[Mongo3451]

Did you watch the same game? Webb most definitely didn't play well.

 

First of all, the Redskins, for some ridiculous reason, used slant-rushing towards the gaps and didn't attack Webb much. Not a solid move on their part, but it helped hide Webb's deficiencies. On top of that, the Bears ran right as a probable way to avoid the weak side of the line (focus on the strength). And, of course, Tice is holding true on his promise to help the OL with lots and lots of double TE sets. I think it's sad that the Bears have to employ a double-TE set with what amounts to at least 6 Linemen, but that's just me. I'd rather have a good OL that can do their job, and use the TE for more of an attacking role. Having said that...

 

The first ISO of the game that Webb got was a shotgun play and he got pushed straight back into Cutler, causing the throw to be a bit quicker than necessary (for what it's worth, Carimi got pushed back too). On the second series Webb got destroyed on an inside move, but he was just lucky that the run was to the right. If that run goes left, it's a loss behind the LOS.

Yep, saw the same game. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter what the opposition runs. You need to look at success and failure. The only negative impact play Webb had was that run to the right where he let his man laterally make the play. No sacks and no penalties. And I disagree on the pressure you claim he caused. He had his man sealed on that play. Carimi, on the other hand, lost his ass on it.

 

That one game Webb looked like an NFL caliber tackle.

 

I'll continue to agree with you that Williams is the safer choice.

[jason]

Yep, saw the same game. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter what the opposition runs. You need to look at success and failure. The only negative impact play Webb had was that run to the right where he let his man laterally make the play. No sacks and no penalties. And I disagree on the pressure you claim he caused. He had his man sealed on that play. Carimi, on the other hand, lost his ass on it.

 

That one game Webb looked like an NFL caliber tackle.

 

I'll continue to agree with you that Williams is the safer choice.

 

It's fair to disagree on the one play. I feel like he was pressured enough that it caused Jay to alter movement/throwing motion.

 

But I disagree that it doesn't matter what the opposition runs. If the opposition runs stunts the entire game and never directly attack an OLineman, then we don't know what the OLineman's initial post-snap ability is for quicker DEs. If the DL always attacks the gaps, and sends nobody outside the OT, there is a higher likelihood the OT will get OG help and a potential double team. It may not matter as much as the OLineman's performance on his limited isolation plays, but it matters.

[AZ54]

If the best 5 lineup is: Webb, Williams, Garza, Louis, Carimi then we need to do that.

 

Steady play at LT won't matter if there's a turn-style named Spencer right in front of Cutler. There is no reason Williams would not remain our backup OT.

 

 

 

For those of you who watched and focused on the line play did you notice anything worthy of a roster spot from any of our backup OTs? I haven't seen anything really positive from either Brown or Brandon.

[CrackerDog]

It's fair to disagree on the one play. I feel like he was pressured enough that it caused Jay to alter movement/throwing motion.

 

I think we can all agree this Saturday will be a much better test for the O Line. I'm not going to get too high or too down on them until they prove themselves worthy of either, this weekend. These guys were exposed as frauds last season by the Giants. If they haven't learned anything since or if they haven't the pride to want to prove themselves better than THAT, they should all be fired. OF course, we can't afford to make any substantial changes at this point so... We'll all have to downgrade our expectations for the team if the line gets ass-hammered again.

 

With that said, I think they did a nice job on RG3 this weekend. The D only gave up 3 to an NFL team in a half, I don't hold the punt return against them. Cousins looked great in the second half but that's something for the Skins to worry about. I think our backups got outplayed but I'm not too sure how concerned I need to be about that at this stage of the game. And the D played well without #54 out there so that's saying something. The O was downright impressive. We have solid depth at WR now, something I've never been able to say as a Bears fan all my 47 years on this planet. We're set at QB and RB better than almost any other team in the NFL. It all comes down to the line...

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I think we can all agree this Saturday will be a much better test for the O Line. I'm not going to get too high or too down on them until they prove themselves worthy of either, this weekend. These guys were exposed as frauds last season by the Giants. If they haven't learned anything since or if they haven't the pride to want to prove themselves better than THAT, they should all be fired. OF course, we can't afford to make any substantial changes at this point so... We'll all have to downgrade our expectations for the team if the line gets ass-hammered again.

 

With that said, I think they did a nice job on RG3 this weekend. The D only gave up 3 to an NFL team in a half, I don't hold the punt return against them. Cousins looked great in the second half but that's something for the Skins to worry about. I think our backups got outplayed but I'm not too sure how concerned I need to be about that at this stage of the game. And the D played well without #54 out there so that's saying something. The O was downright impressive. We have solid depth at WR now, something I've never been able to say as a Bears fan all my 47 years on this planet. We're set at QB and RB better than almost any other team in the NFL. It all comes down to the line...

Not poking fun, but remember, the game is Friday. I wouldn't want you to miss it.

[AZ54]

I think we can all agree this Saturday will be a much better test for the O Line. I'm not going to get too high or too down on them until they prove themselves worthy of either, this weekend. These guys were exposed as frauds last season by the Giants. If they haven't learned anything since or if they haven't the pride to want to prove themselves better than THAT, they should all be fired. OF course, we can't afford to make any substantial changes at this point so... We'll all have to downgrade our expectations for the team if the line gets ass-hammered again.

 

With that said, I think they did a nice job on RG3 this weekend. The D only gave up 3 to an NFL team in a half, I don't hold the punt return against them. Cousins looked great in the second half but that's something for the Skins to worry about. I think our backups got outplayed but I'm not too sure how concerned I need to be about that at this stage of the game. And the D played well without #54 out there so that's saying something. The O was downright impressive. We have solid depth at WR now, something I've never been able to say as a Bears fan all my 47 years on this planet. We're set at QB and RB better than almost any other team in the NFL. It all comes down to the line...

 

 

FWIW...The Giants game you are referring to was in the 2010 season.

 

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Yep, saw the same game. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter what the opposition runs. You need to look at success and failure. The only negative impact play Webb had was that run to the right where he let his man laterally make the play. No sacks and no penalties. And I disagree on the pressure you claim he caused. He had his man sealed on that play. Carimi, on the other hand, lost his ass on it.

 

That one game Webb looked like an NFL caliber tackle.

 

I'll continue to agree with you that Williams is the safer choice.

Agreed. What the Skins do doesn't matter, ultimately it is the results and Webb played a solid game. In fact, I think he played a better game then Williams (who was also solid). I think most of the experts that watched the film as well had similar comments.

[jason]

Agreed. What the Skins do doesn't matter, ultimately it is the results and Webb played a solid game. In fact, I think he played a better game then Williams (who was also solid). I think most of the experts that watched the film as well had similar comments.

 

Regarding what the Skins do, what if they went into prevent the entire game and only rushed three? Then it doesn't matter? Then can anyone properly evaluate what the OL does when there are two double teams and a single one-on-one? C'mon. Give me a break. It matters what the opponent does. Even Tice admits it matters when there is a difference between a 3-4 defense (Washington) and a 4-3 defense (NYG). In fact, I'd say he almost dismisses the evaluation of a LT against a 3-4 defense when he says, "A 3-4 defense is a 3-4 defense. Eventually, at the end of the day, your tackles are blocking big linebackers. So now, you want to see them against some real large, athletic, strong defensive ends."

 

While Tice appears to agree with my point of view on this, please point me to the expert articles where they break down film. I'd love to read those articles because I haven't found them. At best I've found an article by Pompei (not an X's and O's expert), where he neither breaks down plays, nor talks about specifics, and offers only, "Webb answered the bell. He played with solid technique and showed urgency." For the record, it's possible for someone to exhibit both and still play poorly because of mental miscues. Then there is Biggs, who wrote, to his credit, that Webb was beaten on the running play and Williams played well. Then there is Seligman who writes that "Webb seemed to hold up against Washington's Brian Orakpo until the Pro Bowl linebacker left with a shoulder injury late in the first quarter." "Seems," wow, there's some hardcore film breakdown from him.

 

If they do break down things on a play by play basis, they'll find that most of the plays Webb was not isolated (which I contend matters). And on the plays he was isolated, he was average at best. I'd say subpar. It's more a design of the offense (as many noted following the Martz departure) that helped him avoid other problems. With shorter drops, plays away, and TE help it's a bandaid on the problem. Sometimes the bandaid stops the bleeding (3-4), but it doesn't necessarily heal the wound (4-3).

 

(Side note: You have to take Tice and the coaching staff's words with a grain of salt when he also says that Spencer "bounced back" this game. That is ridiculous. Spencer was easily the worst person on the OL against the Redskins.)

[Mongo3451]

Regarding what the Skins do, what if they went into prevent the entire game and only rushed three? Then it doesn't matter? Then can anyone properly evaluate what the OL does when there are two double teams and a single one-on-one? C'mon. Give me a break. It matters what the opponent does. Even Tice admits it matters when there is a difference between a 3-4 defense (Washington) and a 4-3 defense (NYG). In fact, I'd say he almost dismisses the evaluation of a LT against a 3-4 defense when he says, "A 3-4 defense is a 3-4 defense. Eventually, at the end of the day, your tackles are blocking big linebackers. So now, you want to see them against some real large, athletic, strong defensive ends."

 

I think the reason we say it doesn't matter what other teams do/did is that we can only judge performance based on what actually happens. Like Crackerdog said, "we'll find out a lot more Friday". Then, we'll break it down over the weekend and see if we debate the staff decisions.

[CrackerDog]

Not poking fun, but remember, the game is Friday. I wouldn't want you to miss it.

 

Dude, that's awesome news! I swear I saw Saturday somewhere and I was pissed because I have a party to go to that night and it isn't at a place likely to have football on. Thanks for the correction!