Chris Williams Permanent Residence In the Doghouse

[lemonej]

With all of the debate on this board about Ja Marcus Webb's talent or lack thereof, Iam really puzzled why Chris Williams has been basically shown the door and not really given a solid chance to actually compete for the position he was drafted for and all signs point to Tice. With Chilo Rachal being given a shot at LG it is obvious that Williams has done something that has basically relegated him to playing his last games with the Bears.With his depature that will leave only 1 JA 1st rounder on the roster. Though that may be an indictment of the previous regime development of talent falls on the HC and staff. When there was some awkward comments in a press conference by Lovie describing Rachal as a tough guy started me to thinking about the guy who is lined up next to him,who allowed his QB to punk him on national TV is totally opposite of a tough guy with his constant focus on social media and posting poetry graduated from the Michael Haynes School of Toughness The adding of Jonathan Scott and moving Chris Spencer to the LG position has me believing that Williams has pissed someone off in the Halas Hall bunker.It still mystifies me how the Bears have handle the upgrading of talent on the OL since 2003. Even with a 3 and 1 record I have been scouring the college football games and my favorite draft site (nfldraftscout.com) for players that I think will add youth and depth to this team.

 

In terms of priority I have targeted these positions as priorities that the Bears need to address to sustain a solid competitive team annually.

1.OL If you are showing Williams the door then Ja Marcus Webb should be on notice also. His inconsistency still points to his dedication to his craft and the fact that he hasn't completely bridge the lack o competition gap coming from West Texas A&M.

2.LB I love Briggs and Urlacher but It really looks like they are all in this year and if it doesn't happen then what. I personally would like the Bears to draft a stud LB first to learn from these 2 guys and then take over when one or the other leaves.( My Choice is Mantei' Teo ND SP?)

3. CB like above bring a prospect in before the 6 or 7th round to learn under the tutelage of Peanut.

 

I'm sure this may be viewed as a pessimistic attitude but "all that glitters ain't gold". nI still believe they rolled the dice on the OL.

[adam]

To me the pick was lazy to begin with. Williams was picked 14th and Clady went 12th. There was such a drop off from Clady that no OL was worth the 14th pick that year.

 

So this is not surprising at all. He missed all those games after surgery, and was never the same player again. I am just glad this is his last year, and would not be surprised if this was his last year with the Bears.

 

For draft picks, I would love to see BPA out of OL, LB, and CB in the first few rounds in the next 2 drafts.

 

Looking at ages, here are the players currently 30 or older, with LB, OL, and DL having 2 players each:

 

Campbell - 30

Garza - 33

Spencer - 30

Idonije - 31

Peppers - 32

Briggs - 31

Urlacher - 34

Tillman - 31

Gould - 30

Mannelly - 37

[jason]

With all of the debate on this board about Ja Marcus Webb's talent or lack thereof, Iam really puzzled why Chris Williams has been basically shown the door and not really given a solid chance to actually compete for the position he was drafted for and all signs point to Tice. With Chilo Rachal being given a shot at LG it is obvious that Williams has done something that has basically relegated him to playing his last games with the Bears.With his depature that will leave only 1 JA 1st rounder on the roster. Though that may be an indictment of the previous regime development of talent falls on the HC and staff. When there was some awkward comments in a press conference by Lovie describing Rachal as a tough guy started me to thinking about the guy who is lined up next to him,who allowed his QB to punk him on national TV is totally opposite of a tough guy with his constant focus on social media and posting poetry graduated from the Michael Haynes School of Toughness The adding of Jonathan Scott and moving Chris Spencer to the LG position has me believing that Williams has pissed someone off in the Halas Hall bunker.It still mystifies me how the Bears have handle the upgrading of talent on the OL since 2003. Even with a 3 and 1 record I have been scouring the college football games and my favorite draft site (nfldraftscout.com) for players that I think will add youth and depth to this team.

 

In terms of priority I have targeted these positions as priorities that the Bears need to address to sustain a solid competitive team annually.

1.OL If you are showing Williams the door then Ja Marcus Webb should be on notice also. His inconsistency still points to his dedication to his craft and the fact that he hasn't completely bridge the lack o competition gap coming from West Texas A&M.

2.LB I love Briggs and Urlacher but It really looks like they are all in this year and if it doesn't happen then what. I personally would like the Bears to draft a stud LB first to learn from these 2 guys and then take over when one or the other leaves.( My Choice is Mantei' Teo ND SP?)

3. CB like above bring a prospect in before the 6 or 7th round to learn under the tutelage of Peanut.

 

I'm sure this may be viewed as a pessimistic attitude but "all that glitters ain't gold". nI still believe they rolled the dice on the OL.

 

Good post, good thoughts. I also have to wonder why Williams has never been given a fair shot at LT. Maybe you're right? Maybe it is something personal? Maybe he's just in the doghouse forever. What I know is he has never been given a fair shake at the position. Let's recap (as we have before):

 

2008 - Started out injured, never started as a result

2009 - Moved to RT to accomodate Pace, when Pace sucked Williams got moved into LT, where he did OK

2010 - Started at LT, then got injured, then Tice inexplicably moved him to LG after injury. This just doesn't happen. And that's despite the fact that Williams did adequately at LT previously and Omifail was the LT option he chose instead. Williams was at the very least average as LG, some would even say he did well.

2011 - Starts at LG while Webb gets gifted the LT spot, which is crazy because Carimi was drafted as a RT because Webb sucked so bad at RT. Yeah, because LT is so much easier. Good thinking Tice. My take on this is that Tice thought he was using his players as best as possible, and the leftside combo of Webb-Williams was better than Williams-XYZ. Still a bad choice.

2012 - Webb, despite sucking something serious at LT in 2011, and facing "competition" from Williams for the LT position, "wins" the LT position battle again. Oh, big surprise, he's still not good this year.

 

And if there ever was a year for a LT, this is the year.

Luke Joeckel - Stud

Jake Matthews - Pedigree

Barrett Jones - Versatile

[madlithuanian]

Great post!!!

 

With all of the debate on this board about Ja Marcus Webb's talent or lack thereof, Iam really puzzled why Chris Williams has been basically shown the door and not really given a solid chance to actually compete for the position he was drafted for and all signs point to Tice. With Chilo Rachal being given a shot at LG it is obvious that Williams has done something that has basically relegated him to playing his last games with the Bears.With his depature that will leave only 1 JA 1st rounder on the roster. Though that may be an indictment of the previous regime development of talent falls on the HC and staff. When there was some awkward comments in a press conference by Lovie describing Rachal as a tough guy started me to thinking about the guy who is lined up next to him,who allowed his QB to punk him on national TV is totally opposite of a tough guy with his constant focus on social media and posting poetry graduated from the Michael Haynes School of Toughness The adding of Jonathan Scott and moving Chris Spencer to the LG position has me believing that Williams has pissed someone off in the Halas Hall bunker.It still mystifies me how the Bears have handle the upgrading of talent on the OL since 2003. Even with a 3 and 1 record I have been scouring the college football games and my favorite draft site (nfldraftscout.com) for players that I think will add youth and depth to this team.

 

In terms of priority I have targeted these positions as priorities that the Bears need to address to sustain a solid competitive team annually.

1.OL If you are showing Williams the door then Ja Marcus Webb should be on notice also. His inconsistency still points to his dedication to his craft and the fact that he hasn't completely bridge the lack o competition gap coming from West Texas A&M.

2.LB I love Briggs and Urlacher but It really looks like they are all in this year and if it doesn't happen then what. I personally would like the Bears to draft a stud LB first to learn from these 2 guys and then take over when one or the other leaves.( My Choice is Mantei' Teo ND SP?)

3. CB like above bring a prospect in before the 6 or 7th round to learn under the tutelage of Peanut.

 

I'm sure this may be viewed as a pessimistic attitude but "all that glitters ain't gold". nI still believe they rolled the dice on the OL.

 

[lemonej]

Good post, good thoughts. I also have to wonder why Williams has never been given a fair shot at LT. Maybe you're right? Maybe it is something personal? Maybe he's just in the doghouse forever. What I know is he has never been given a fair shake at the position. Let's recap (as we have before):

 

2008 - Started out injured, never started as a result

2009 - Moved to RT to accomodate Pace, when Pace sucked Williams got moved into LT, where he did OK

2010 - Started at LT, then got injured, then Tice inexplicably moved him to LG after injury. This just doesn't happen. And that's despite the fact that Williams did adequately at LT previously and Omifail was the LT option he chose instead. Williams was at the very least average as LG, some would even say he did well.

2011 - Starts at LG while Webb gets gifted the LT spot, which is crazy because Carimi was drafted as a RT because Webb sucked so bad at RT. Yeah, because LT is so much easier. Good thinking Tice. My take on this is that Tice thought he was using his players as best as possible, and the leftside combo of Webb-Williams was better than Williams-XYZ. Still a bad choice.

2012 - Webb, despite sucking something serious at LT in 2011, and facing "competition" from Williams for the LT position, "wins" the LT position battle again. Oh, big surprise, he's still not good this year.

 

And if there ever was a year for a LT, this is the year.

Luke Joeckel - Stud

Jake Matthews - Pedigree

Barrett Jones - Versatile

Jason I'm right there with you on Barrett Jones and both the Texas A&M prospects. I do believe that Jones is playing inside this year.One thing that hasn't received much mention is how Lance Louis and Gabe Carimi are playing on the right side because of the focus on the left side. Iactually think Lois is playing decent so far.

[Bears4Ever_34]

He's in the doghouse because Chris Williams is bad. I mean, lets call it like it is. The coaches obviously see something in Jonathon Scott to move him ahead of Williams as backup LT. As far as I'm concerned, Williams should have been cut before the season began. Complete, and utter failure of a 1st round pick.

[madlithuanian]

More proof positive of JA's departure...

 

He's in the doghouse because Chris Williams is bad. I mean, lets call it like it is. The coaches obviously see something in Jonathon Scott to move him ahead of Williams as backup LT. As far as I'm concerned, Williams should have been cut before the season began. Complete, and utter failure of a 1st round pick.

 

[jason]

He's in the doghouse because Chris Williams is bad. I mean, lets call it like it is. The coaches obviously see something in Jonathon Scott to move him ahead of Williams as backup LT. As far as I'm concerned, Williams should have been cut before the season began. Complete, and utter failure of a 1st round pick.

 

You can't possibly know how well Williams would do, or can do, at LT, because he has never been given a stretch of time significant enough to evaluate. OL talents translate different to different positions, and from the small sample size at LT we've got, Williams is not all that bad. Besides, if he is, in fact, bad, he's still better than Webb.

[ChileBear]

You can't possibly know how well Williams would do, or can do, at LT, because he has never been given a stretch of time significant enough to evaluate. OL talents translate different to different positions, and from the small sample size at LT we've got, Williams is not all that bad. Besides, if he is, in fact, bad, he's still better than Webb.

Yep. Webb still hasn't proven anything to me yet.

[Bears4Ever_34]

You can't possibly know how well Williams would do, or can do, at LT, because he has never been given a stretch of time significant enough to evaluate. OL talents translate different to different positions, and from the small sample size at LT we've got, Williams is not all that bad. Besides, if he is, in fact, bad, he's still better than Webb.

 

The coaches sure act like they know, and they've seen him in practice every day this off-season. It's hard to fathom how this is even possible, given how bad our current starting LT is. It's gotten to the point now where the Bears aren't even dressing him for games anymore, and is already being replaced by a journeyman OT they picked up off the streets. How bad do you have to be if you can't even find yourself on the field because of Jamarcus Webb and Jonathon Scott?

[ChileBear]

The coaches sure act like they know, and they've seen him in practice every day this off-season. It's hard to fathom how this is even possible, given how bad our current starting LT is. It's gotten to the point now where the Bears aren't even dressing him for games anymore, and is already being replaced by a journeyman OT they picked up off the streets. How bad do you have to be if you can't even find yourself on the field because of Jamarcus Webb and Jonathon Scott?

The facts don't lie. And he's not even being considered as OG. Looks like he's just insurance in case of injury at this point.

[Connorbear]

The coaches sure act like they know, and they've seen him in practice every day this off-season. It's hard to fathom how this is even possible, given how bad our current starting LT is. It's gotten to the point now where the Bears aren't even dressing him for games anymore, and is already being replaced by a journeyman OT they picked up off the streets. How bad do you have to be if you can't even find yourself on the field because of Jamarcus Webb and Jonathon Scott?

 

This.

 

Peace

[jason]

The coaches sure act like they know, and they've seen him in practice every day this off-season. It's hard to fathom how this is even possible, given how bad our current starting LT is. It's gotten to the point now where the Bears aren't even dressing him for games anymore, and is already being replaced by a journeyman OT they picked up off the streets. How bad do you have to be if you can't even find yourself on the field because of Jamarcus Webb and Jonathon Scott?

 

We've heard this song on more than one occasion. Webb is probably a practice or weight-room warrior, and that's what continues to wet the coaching staff's panties. Which is why your second sentence ("It's hard to fathom how this is even possible, given how bad our current starting LT is.") is probably the one that rings the most true to me.

 

Just because person A gets a start over person B, doesn't make it the right decision. It wouldn't be the first time this staff, or many other staffs, made the wrong decision in terms of personnel. They are certainly not above criticism in this regard.

 

I, like you, find it hard to fathom that Williams is worse than Webb and Scott. It's something else.

[lemonej]

After yesterday's game 4 members of the OL played pretty good including Webb,while Carimi decided to crap all over himself.The rushing yards and average per carry tells me that the insertion of Rachal at LG has helped the interior create better running lanes inside. On a lot of Cutler's dropbacks he had decent time to make reads. Its still a work in progress and I will wait and see how they look coming out of the bye week when some severe self scouting should be done before I think this OL is starting to gel. BTW Am I crazy or is Lance Lois quietly having a pretty good season so far? I haven't heard his name called for much of anything all season.For an O-lineman anonymous is good.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Jason, maybe Williams is just a nudge better but the long term outlook says play Webb. We may know Williams ceiling and since his contract expires after this year it might not be enough "better" to play him. Webb may not be the longterm answer either, but this gives us time to draft a player next draft and have a tc camp battle for playing time.

 

This is the only viable reason I see, otherwise I think Williams would be playing somewhere along the front 5.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

He's in the doghouse because Chris Williams is bad. I mean, lets call it like it is. The coaches obviously see something in Jonathon Scott to move him ahead of Williams as backup LT. As far as I'm concerned, Williams should have been cut before the season began. Complete, and utter failure of a 1st round pick.

All training camp those following the Bears on a regular basis were saying that Williams was stinking up camp and there was a chance he wasn't even going to break training camp on the roster. That was an indictment enough. Supposedly he was lazy, put in little work, and didn't do anything the coaching staff asked him to do. Which is really pathetic when you consider he was fighting for a spot.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

We've heard this song on more than one occasion. Webb is probably a practice or weight-room warrior, and that's what continues to wet the coaching staff's panties. Which is why your second sentence ("It's hard to fathom how this is even possible, given how bad our current starting LT is.") is probably the one that rings the most true to me.

 

Just because person A gets a start over person B, doesn't make it the right decision. It wouldn't be the first time this staff, or many other staffs, made the wrong decision in terms of personnel. They are certainly not above criticism in this regard.

 

I, like you, find it hard to fathom that Williams is worse than Webb and Scott. It's something else.

Webb has had two straight above average games. He's going to have some bad ones, but those were two games that he had in which I don't think Williams would be capable of. That said, he'll also have a couple stinkers which I don't think Williams would be capable of having.

[madlithuanian]

I remember hearing the same.

 

I'm not saying Williams isn't better than Webb, but I can at least understand why he'd be in the dog house.

 

All training camp those following the Bears on a regular basis were saying that Williams was stinking up camp and there was a chance he wasn't even going to break training camp on the roster. That was an indictment enough. Supposedly he was lazy, put in little work, and didn't do anything the coaching staff asked him to do. Which is really pathetic when you consider he was fighting for a spot.

 

[madlithuanian]

Yeah...I can't recall any negatives with Louis. I even recall f-ups by Garza.

 

As you said, Carimi had an off day...especially that one series! But I'm not concerned yet with him.

 

 

After yesterday's game 4 members of the OL played pretty good including Webb,while Carimi decided to crap all over himself.The rushing yards and average per carry tells me that the insertion of Rachal at LG has helped the interior create better running lanes inside. On a lot of Cutler's dropbacks he had decent time to make reads. Its still a work in progress and I will wait and see how they look coming out of the bye week when some severe self scouting should be done before I think this OL is starting to gel. BTW Am I crazy or is Lance Lois quietly having a pretty good season so far? I haven't heard his name called for much of anything all season.For an O-lineman anonymous is good.

 

[madlithuanian]

Your theory makes some sense. Dump the true disappointment. Hold onto the pendulum...higher highs, lower lows...and draft a real LT. We'll see...

 

Jason, maybe Williams is just a nudge better but the long term outlook says play Webb. We may know Williams ceiling and since his contract expires after this year it might not be enough "better" to play him. Webb may not be the longterm answer either, but this gives us time to draft a player next draft and have a tc camp battle for playing time.

 

This is the only viable reason I see, otherwise I think Williams would be playing somewhere along the front 5.

 

[lemonej]

My only question is when you are paying a guy that much to dress up in Bears gear if he is so bad why not cut him in TC and utilize the spot on one of the young linemen that are currently on the PS if you really are looking long term. Tyler Clutts didn't figure long term in Tice's scheme so just like Greg Olsen he was traded. I was fortunate enough to be able to watch all the preseason games live and a big enough couch potato to watch the replay the very next time it was telecast locally and neither player established themselves as a starting caliber LOT. In one of the first games Tice was so pissed at Webb's performance(as well as Spencer) that he left him in the game much longer than any of the other OL starters. That doesn't sound like a ringing endorsment of a player because regardless of what the beat reporters were reporting out of TC when you watched the preseason games,Webb was playing just like he did in the packer game. In the Colt game he basically used what I thought was a questionable block on the back of Freeney's achilles area that sidelined the DE for the rest of that game and subsequently the following couple of games. Just like we have noticed that Cutler has had some stinkers some of them can be attributed to the play of the current LOT(see week 2). I just feel this is Tice's baby and because when he worked him out and allegedly got a chipped tooth he is Hell bent on trying to make a player out of him. You saw Eugene Monroe playing LOT yesterday for the Jaguars well he was there with Tice and he didn't look so good.Coming out of Virginia he had spent the season a LG because a younger player(D'Brickishaw Ferguson) was manning the LOT spot. All the draft pundits and talking heads felt he could move well enough to play in space and make the move back outside to OT. Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle with a Randalll Mc Danial but often a lot of position coaches get too much credit for a special player or two who has the drive that neither Chris Williams or Ja Marcus Webb will ever possess. Think about it, Buddy Ryan gets a lot of credit for being the ochestrator of that 85 defense but he had been with the team since 78 when Neil Armstrong was the coach. Well 7 of his 11 starters were 1st or 2nd rounders with the remainder of the guys having multiple years in his scheme.Compared to Marinelli, Tice still has work to do in terms of developing this OL. Just like last season when the lack of a full off season was the excuse, what could be the excuse why this OL is taking so long to develop every year under Tice if they are using the same blocking technique? He has been here 1 year less than Marinelli and has been slow to develop any noticeable emerging talent so far. He has had 4 draft picks to try and develop Webb,Williams,Louis and Carimi with 1 out of the 4 stepping up and that seems to be Louis. Marinelli has had 3 not counting Shea Mack this year. Melton, Wooten and Paea. Right now all 3 look promising as well as SMC showing flashes.

[madlithuanian]

Another great analysis lemonej.

 

Lots of questions that honestly can't be answered at the moment. There is something up with Williams for sure. It could be they really want him gone, but just in case of injury or something...he can be the back-up. That's the only thing that makes sense for me. I feel we are locked into Webb and will only see Williams due to injury. For whatever reason...

 

My only question is when you are paying a guy that much to dress up in Bears gear if he is so bad why not cut him in TC and utilize the spot on one of the young linemen that are currently on the PS if you really are looking long term. Tyler Clutts didn't figure long term in Tice's scheme so just like Greg Olsen he was traded. I was fortunate enough to be able to watch all the preseason games live and a big enough couch potato to watch the replay the very next time it was telecast locally and neither player established themselves as a starting caliber LOT. In one of the first games Tice was so pissed at Webb's performance(as well as Spencer) that he left him in the game much longer than any of the other OL starters. That doesn't sound like a ringing endorsment of a player because regardless of what the beat reporters were reporting out of TC when you watched the preseason games,Webb was playing just like he did in the packer game. In the Colt game he basically used what I thought was a questionable block on the back of Freeney's achilles area that sidelined the DE for the rest of that game and subsequently the following couple of games. Just like we have noticed that Cutler has had some stinkers some of them can be attributed to the play of the current LOT(see week 2). I just feel this is Tice's baby and because when he worked him out and allegedly got a chipped tooth he is Hell bent on trying to make a player out of him. You saw Eugene Monroe playing LOT yesterday for the Jaguars well he was there with Tice and he didn't look so good.Coming out of Virginia he had spent the season a LG because a younger player(D'Brickishaw Ferguson) was manning the LOT spot. All the draft pundits and talking heads felt he could move well enough to play in space and make the move back outside to OT. Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle with a Randalll Mc Danial but often a lot of position coaches get too much credit for a special player or two who has the drive that neither Chris Williams or Ja Marcus Webb will ever possess. Think about it, Buddy Ryan gets a lot of credit for being the ochestrator of that 85 defense but he had been with the team since 78 when Neil Armstrong was the coach. Well 7 of his 11 starters were 1st or 2nd rounders with the remainder of the guys having multiple years in his scheme.Compared to Marinelli, Tice still has work to do in terms of developing this OL. Just like last season when the lack of a full off season was the excuse, what could be the excuse why this OL is taking so long to develop every year under Tice if they are using the same blocking technique? He has been here 1 year less than Marinelli and has been slow to develop any noticeable emerging talent so far. He has had 4 draft picks to try and develop Webb,Williams,Louis and Carimi with 1 out of the 4 stepping up and that seems to be Louis. Marinelli has had 3 not counting Shea Mack this year. Melton, Wooten and Paea. Right now all 3 look promising as well as SMC showing flashes.