jason Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Hear me out... I was driving to work today thinking about how poor the production from every other WR has been. There is no doubt that Cutler has zeroed in on Marshall to the point of ignoring other WRs and forcing it into multi-player coverage on Marshall, but how has it really affected the other players who get significant receptions? Forte is significantly down (on pace for 38 rec). Sanz is significantly down (on pace for 2 rec. Hester is even (on pace for 26 rec). Davis is very slightly down (on pace for 19 rec). Bennett is slightly up (on pace for 29 rec). I know Knox's numbers last year and Alshon's early season production this year skew things somewhat, but it doesn't appear the others have changed much. Then you look at Marshall's numbers... He's on pace for a career year of 111 receptions, and I have no doubt 15-20 of those could/should go elsewhere. So the queston is, are the other receivers really playing that poorly? Are they receiving less because Marshall gets more? Or are they on pace to do what they have done? Seems closer to the last statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Hear me out... I was driving to work today thinking about how poor the production from every other WR has been. There is no doubt that Cutler has zeroed in on Marshall to the point of ignoring other WRs and forcing it into multi-player coverage on Marshall, but how has it really affected the other players who get significant receptions? Forte is significantly down (on pace for 38 rec). Sanz is significantly down (on pace for 2 rec. Hester is even (on pace for 26 rec). Davis is very slightly down (on pace for 19 rec). Bennett is slightly up (on pace for 29 rec). I know Knox's numbers last year and Alshon's early season production this year skew things somewhat, but it doesn't appear the others have changed much. Then you look at Marshall's numbers... He's on pace for a career year of 111 receptions, and I have no doubt 15-20 of those could/should go elsewhere. So the queston is, are the other receivers really playing that poorly? Are they receiving less because Marshall gets more? Or are they on pace to do what they have done? Seems closer to the last statement. Good question. My answer is yes. Cutler has had time to hit other targets this year. Often, we armchair quarterbacks yell at the TV saying this guy or that guy is open. I've yelled that a lot this year. These are the things I expected to go away by now. That's why the Houston game was so key for our O. Looks like may be the GB game if Cutler misses SF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I think the other receivers are playing that poorly and there's lots of examples, even recent ones. From the #2-#3 options...one of them is a rookie, and that rookie has missed just under 1/2 the season so far. So he hasn't had a major impact. The #3 option...he's supposed to be a slot/possession guy, but he also...missed a large chunk of the season. The #4 threat...the deep guy...he's actually had the ball get to him, repeatedly, down the field...but he has failed to drag the ball in on plays where things could have been caught. The Houston game is a great example...he catches the 2 deep balls that he had a good chance to catch, and that's a totally different game. And the main "receiving tight end"....well, at this point, someone is probably laughing at that phrase. So out of the non-Marshall receivers, you've got one who keeps having the ball go off his hands deep, 2 who have each missed 1/2 the season so far, and a TE that's been a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Agreed. I think the other receivers are playing that poorly and there's lots of examples, even recent ones. From the #2-#3 options...one of them is a rookie, and that rookie has missed just under 1/2 the season so far. So he hasn't had a major impact. The #3 option...he's supposed to be a slot/possession guy, but he also...missed a large chunk of the season. The #4 threat...the deep guy...he's actually had the ball get to him, repeatedly, down the field...but he has failed to drag the ball in on plays where things could have been caught. The Houston game is a great example...he catches the 2 deep balls that he had a good chance to catch, and that's a totally different game. And the main "receiving tight end"....well, at this point, someone is probably laughing at that phrase. So out of the non-Marshall receivers, you've got one who keeps having the ball go off his hands deep, 2 who have each missed 1/2 the season so far, and a TE that's been a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 No. Outside of Brandon Marshall, it's: - Devin Hester, a PR playing WR - Kellen Davis, a TE who can't catch or block - Earl Bennett, who's not playing up to par with where he's been at for most of his career, which could be attributed to him either not being completely healthy, or perhaps he may have been a better fit in the Mike Martz offense. Those are your throwing options. A guy that can't play receiver, a guy that looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane, and then a slot receiver who's not been himself. It's no wonder Brandon Marshall has so many catches. Alshon coming back should provide an extra security blanket for Cutler. You need a guy that can take advantage of not being double teamed. Forte needs to be involved more in the passing game. Right now, the Bears have no offensive system that they identify with. What I mean by that is, there is no continuity. With all the high powered offenses out there, they have an identity that makes them unique. The Redskins kill you with the plays Jay Cutler used to run in Denver, minus the read option RGIII stuff. It's roll outs, mix with play actions and screens. The Panthers make you prepare for a spread option attack with DeAngelo Williams and Cam Newton, and off of that, it's a lot of vertical passing. The Patriots, Saints, and Packers all kill you with the short timing routes that result in automatic 5-7 yard gains on nearly every pass attempt. It's a methodical approach. The thing that each of those quarterbacks do best is they spread the football around, more so with the Saints and Packers. The Patriots have changed to more of a run oriented offense this season, with the medley of backs they have in their repertoire. Point being, the Bears don't have any of that. I don't know what they are doing from one week to the next. There's nothing you can hang your hat on. You know Brandon Marshall is going to be getting the ball, but outside of that, who else can you say is getting touches? Forte clearly isn't getting enough, Michael Bush isn't getting enough.. If it were me, I would seriously just get Cutler outside of the pocket on every pass attempt and run all kinds of misdirection plays that get the defense moving in one direction, then it becomes easier to throw because you split the field in half. And the numbers have proven over Cutler's career that he's a better passer outside the pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TerraTor Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Gimme a break Kellen Davis is just on the verge of Useless. Sanzenbacher? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 The Bears have to do a better job of getting the other WR's the ball, whether it's Cutler or Tice. Marshall has been terrific for this team. It's time for other WR's to be terrific for the team as well. You can't put that on Marshall's shoulders. What's he going to do, catch it and run and hook-and-ladder to get the ball to someone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Hear me out... I was driving to work today thinking about how poor the production from every other WR has been. There is no doubt that Cutler has zeroed in on Marshall to the point of ignoring other WRs and forcing it into multi-player coverage on Marshall, but how has it really affected the other players who get significant receptions? Forte is significantly down (on pace for 38 rec). Sanz is significantly down (on pace for 2 rec. Hester is even (on pace for 26 rec). Davis is very slightly down (on pace for 19 rec). Bennett is slightly up (on pace for 29 rec). I know Knox's numbers last year and Alshon's early season production this year skew things somewhat, but it doesn't appear the others have changed much. Then you look at Marshall's numbers... He's on pace for a career year of 111 receptions, and I have no doubt 15-20 of those could/should go elsewhere. So the queston is, are the other receivers really playing that poorly? Are they receiving less because Marshall gets more? Or are they on pace to do what they have done? Seems closer to the last statement. Forte's rushing yards are also down about 10 yards a game this year. So I don't think you can correlate anything from his stats to Marshall's. Forte was hurt, missed some time, and wasn't 100% for several weeks. I believe that affected him more than Marshall. Looking at Targets vs Receptions, Marshall is the top WR and Jeffery is the only other WR/TE over 60%. I don't even know why they attempt a pass to Davis when he is not even catching half thrown to him, and when he does, he fumbles anyway. Marshall 103-67 65.1% Hester 27-15 55.6% Jeffery 23-14 60.9% Bennett 34-17 50% Davis 26-11 42.3% Forte 33-22 66.7% You also have to consider Marshall is essentially playing as Knox and Williams combined from last year with Jeffery out. Knox with Marshall and Jeffery would've been special. So I just think that all the other Receivers are horrible, but Forte needs to see more looks out of the backfield. To answer your question, no, Marshall has not hurt the offense, I can't imagine how bad we would've been without him and someone like Davis getting more chances to drop passes with his rock hands (he has no fingers) or fumble. There are also 8 players with over 90 targets, and Marshall is 3rd with 103. So if he is getting too many looks, so is Wayne, Cruz, Fitzgerald, Johnson, Welker, Green, and Bowe. To me that is some good company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I'd have to say yes, no, and maybe for this year. The reason I think he has had a negative impact this year is the reliance that Cutler and Tice (Randy Ratio) has had on him this year. His presence takes looks away from other players. I think Cutler thinks, "Ok I need 10 yards where is Marshall", making him force it or hold on to the ball too long hoping Marshall will get open. I think it also leads to Tice thinking "I need to get the ball to Marshall X amount of times" or "We really needs this" and calls plays that aren't optimal or just gets away from the balance on offense that is needed. On the No side, Tice is inept, Cutler just ain't that great, and the OLine sucks. Tice was a failure as a head coach for the Vikings. He wasn't doing anything as the TE coach of the Jags, when The Bears decided to bring him in to be the OLine coach. He sucked as an Oline coach, so he gets promoted to a position he has never had, an OC. Tice seems like an awesome person, but he really sucks as a play caller and preparing the team each week. Just look at how bad they are in the first half each week. Cutler just isn't that great in my opinion, and I know other people don't agree. I'm not going to try to derail the convo commenting more on that. The poor play of the OLine may have helped caused the dependence on going to Marshall and his ability to come up with the ball when hes not open. The big reason no in general, he's one of the best WR's in the league and it's the job of the OC and QB to use him in a way to make this offense better. The maybe side, speculative on my part, but his addition has taken the offense away from going through Forte. Forte has been the focus of this offense for years. Now when Forte is used, it seems more forced. The offense now is flowing through Marshall. Offenses that do focus mostly on passing usually have more balance. In the least, there is more of a focus on players other than just the one WR than this team has in it's passing game. Overall, I say Brandon Marshall's addition is a major coup for the organization as he is proving to be a great player. However, I think this year he is indirectly hindering the team because of the ineptitude of others in the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Hear me out... I was driving to work today thinking about how poor the production from every other WR has been. There is no doubt that Cutler has zeroed in on Marshall to the point of ignoring other WRs and forcing it into multi-player coverage on Marshall, but how has it really affected the other players who get significant receptions? Forte is significantly down (on pace for 38 rec). Sanz is significantly down (on pace for 2 rec. Hester is even (on pace for 26 rec). Davis is very slightly down (on pace for 19 rec). Bennett is slightly up (on pace for 29 rec). I know Knox's numbers last year and Alshon's early season production this year skew things somewhat, but it doesn't appear the others have changed much. Then you look at Marshall's numbers... He's on pace for a career year of 111 receptions, and I have no doubt 15-20 of those could/should go elsewhere. So the queston is, are the other receivers really playing that poorly? Are they receiving less because Marshall gets more? Or are they on pace to do what they have done? Seems closer to the last statement. Wow, ain't this "the glass is half empty" post?! I see why you'd ask this Jason-you are a Bears fan. We have never had a true no. 1 WR since perhaps Harlon. So now that we got one, the other guys lok that bad. Jeffery was looking like a true WR prior to injury. imDo the WRs never were that good and now we've got the real deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 No, overall he hasn't hurt the offense he has helped it tremendously. In a micro view yes he's hurt some of the other WRs touches but are they really doing what they should be doing: Getting open and catching passes? I have no faith in Hester as WR period. Bennett is a good slot WR but is too slow and small to be a #2 I believe he'll look better with Jeffrey back on the field. Where I think Marshall's has hurt is Tice's lack of calling running plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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