Robert Griffin major knee reconstruction

[adam]

It if funny how people were comparing Cutler and Griffin right after the Redskins loss, and how Griffin "toughed" it out and stayed in to play (even though he was completely worthless after the initial injury).

 

Griffin will undergo a total reconstruction of the right knee and is expected to need six-to-eight months of recovery, barring any setbacks, according to Mortensen.

 

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2013...ee-acl-redskins

 

They have to do a graft of his left patella to reconstruct the ACL in his right knee, which was previously injured and repaired. To me, this is a huge red flag. He is on his 2nd ACL surgery as a rookie, and the way he plays, he won't last very long in the league. He is not built like AP.

 

To me, it was the wrong call, in the game, and for his career. They did not have a realistic shot at even making it to the NFC Championship.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

It if funny how people were comparing Cutler and Griffin right after the Redskins loss, and how Griffin "toughed" it out and stayed in to play (even though he was completely worthless after the initial injury).

 

I think the judging of either player in their respective situations is unfair. I wanna say it was Marshall Faulk commenting on how the player knows what's best for them. In Cutlers case he knew he couldn't do anymore for the team, at least effectively, so he bowed out to allow someone else give it a shot. (Oddly enough it almost worked too.). And in RGIII's situation, he thougt he could continue to play and produce for the team.

 

Unfortunately in both cases, both players are/were burned for their choices.

 

And I think you're absolutely right that RGIII's career will be limited not just with this injury but due to his style of play. Not many scambling QBs last for very long in the NFL let alone ones with two significant injuries (concussion and knee) in one year. I hope for the best in RGIII's situation, he seems like a pretty good kid.

[selection7]

RGIII probably felt pressured to stay in and be a "leader". Cutler didn't give a crap what anyone thought (so much so that he didn't even bother looking injured). Sometimes there are advantages to the latter style of leadership.

[balta1701-A]

I think the judging of either player in their respective situations is unfair. I wanna say it was Marshall Faulk commenting on how the player knows what's best for them. In Cutlers case he knew he couldn't do anymore for the team, at least effectively, so he bowed out to allow someone else give it a shot. (Oddly enough it almost worked too.). And in RGIII's situation, he thougt he could continue to play and produce for the team.

Honestly, if you watched the 2nd quarter of the game on...this is false.

 

RG3 started off the game all right and able to move the ball, but by the 2nd quarter he'd clearly reinjured the thing and wasn't effective.

 

I get every decision Shanahan made up through the early 3rd Quarter. I'd probably have let him get treatment at the half, try to loosen it up, and see if he could recover a bit in the 3rd. But early in the 3rd, he looked even worse. Any time he tried to throw the ball down the field, it wasn't sharp, and he'd miss open receivers high, which I'm guessing was because he couldn't push off with his back leg. And worse, he couldn't run.

 

There was a particular play in the early 3rd where he scampered off to the left side, had an opening where he could have turned the ball up the field, but basically he limped out of bounds for an 8 yard gain. It was just a joke of a run, I could run more effectively than that, dude limped to the sideline. No explosiveness, no accuracy.

 

If he were effective and moving the ball and he gets hurt, fine, these things happen. From the end of that 2nd TD drive on, he wasn't effective. He was basically bait, he had a target on his back, and he couldn't move the ball. You can't leave him out there to die when he's that ineffective.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Is there a reason as to why his rehab is only going to be 6-8 months compared to a Derrick Rose, where it's 9-12 months? I don't understand how that's possible, especially with how its the second time RGIII has torn his ACL. Anyone?

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Honestly, if you watched the 2nd quarter of the game on...this is false.

 

RG3 started off the game all right and able to move the ball, but by the 2nd quarter he'd clearly reinjured the thing and wasn't effective.

 

I get every decision Shanahan made up through the early 3rd Quarter. I'd probably have let him get treatment at the half, try to loosen it up, and see if he could recover a bit in the 3rd. But early in the 3rd, he looked even worse. Any time he tried to throw the ball down the field, it wasn't sharp, and he'd miss open receivers high, which I'm guessing was because he couldn't push off with his back leg. And worse, he couldn't run.

 

There was a particular play in the early 3rd where he scampered off to the left side, had an opening where he could have turned the ball up the field, but basically he limped out of bounds for an 8 yard gain. It was just a joke of a run, I could run more effectively than that, dude limped to the sideline. No explosiveness, no accuracy.

 

If he were effective and moving the ball and he gets hurt, fine, these things happen. From the end of that 2nd TD drive on, he wasn't effective. He was basically bait, he had a target on his back, and he couldn't move the ball. You can't leave him out there to die when he's that ineffective.

 

So I think then the point of contention maybe lies more with the fault of Shanahan deciding FOR RGIII whether or not he stayed in. Granted there is no comparison between RGIII and the coach in NFL experience, equally there is a disparity in knowing one's own capability. Perhaps RGIII thought he HAD to stay in, either because of Coach Shannahan or his wanting to "prove" himself. And since I don't think Coach Shannahan is a reckless person I have to believe the conversation between he and player took place...at some level.

 

Regardless, after its all said and done it appears that the decision to play will effect how RGIII and the team perform for next year. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2...cl-lcl/1819605/

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Is there a reason as to why his rehab is only going to be 6-8 months compared to a Derrick Rose, where it's 9-12 months? I don't understand how that's possible, especially with how its the second time RGIII has torn his ACL. Anyone?

 

See link above. Maybe explains it a little better. But not so sure his re-hab will be as quick as you suggest.

[balta1701-A]

So I think then the point of contention maybe lies more with the fault of Shanahan deciding FOR RGIII whether or not he stayed in. Granted there is no comparison between RGIII and the coach in NFL experience, equally there is a disparity in knowing one's own capability. Perhaps RGIII thought he HAD to stay in, either because of Coach Shannahan or his wanting to "prove" himself. And since I don't think Coach Shannahan is a reckless person I have to believe the conversation between he and player took place...at some level.

 

Regardless, after its all said and done it appears that the decision to play will effect how RGIII and the team perform for next year. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2...cl-lcl/1819605/

I think it should be the coaches job to decide when a player comes out in a case like this...particularly in a playoff game, the player is always going to want to stay in. It's the same reason why the NFL has come up with such detailed rules about making sure people come out if they're concussed; the player always wants to stay in.

 

Shanahan had to have the call unless Griffin said he couldn't go...and Shanahan had to see that his QB could barely limp to the sidelines. He has to put that together.

[adam]

Honestly, if you watched the 2nd quarter of the game on...this is false.

 

RG3 started off the game all right and able to move the ball, but by the 2nd quarter he'd clearly reinjured the thing and wasn't effective.

 

I get every decision Shanahan made up through the early 3rd Quarter. I'd probably have let him get treatment at the half, try to loosen it up, and see if he could recover a bit in the 3rd. But early in the 3rd, he looked even worse. Any time he tried to throw the ball down the field, it wasn't sharp, and he'd miss open receivers high, which I'm guessing was because he couldn't push off with his back leg. And worse, he couldn't run.

 

There was a particular play in the early 3rd where he scampered off to the left side, had an opening where he could have turned the ball up the field, but basically he limped out of bounds for an 8 yard gain. It was just a joke of a run, I could run more effectively than that, dude limped to the sideline. No explosiveness, no accuracy.

 

If he were effective and moving the ball and he gets hurt, fine, these things happen. From the end of that 2nd TD drive on, he wasn't effective. He was basically bait, he had a target on his back, and he couldn't move the ball. You can't leave him out there to die when he's that ineffective.

I completely agree. You can see the play where he re-aggravates it in the 1st quarter, right before the 2nd TD near the end of the quarter. Then it seemed like he/it got worse and worse as the game continued, which is to be expected. After the first drive in the 2nd half, he should've been pulled.

 

Here are the Washington drive logs after the injury (it tells the whole story):

 

2Q

3 plays, 8 yards, punt

2 plays, 3 yards, INT

 

3Q

8 plays, 24 yards, punt

3 plays, 4 yards, punt

 

4Q

5 plays, 17 yards, punt

2 plays, -2 yards, fumble

 

 

 

[jason]

I think the important way this relates to the Chicago Bears is this...

 

How many years have the Bears had tons of injuries?

How many years have the Bears had a significant injury?

How many years has the sod at Soldier Field looked like complete garbage?

How can player safety really be a concern when knees and ankles are at risk on every single play?

 

 

[AZ54]

From what I recall back in the NFC Championship game Cutler wanted to stay in the game and the Bears decided his injury put him at too much risk of a more serious injury. I agreed with that then and still agree today.

 

The head coach decides who gives his team the best chance to win but also has to decide who gives his team the best chance to win long term. That might have been RGIII at the beginning of the game but by halftime I doubt it was. Who was the idiot who called for a QB run when it was obvious to the world the guy couldn't even plant on his back foot to throw? After seeing him run like that in the second half why would Shanahan keep him in the game? Didn't he (Shanahan) just prove he had a good backup QB just a few games earlier in the year? Now the same idiots put out that he'll be ready to go in about 8 months after having his knee reconstructed.

 

Meanwhile in Chicago the Bulls refuse to put a public timeline on Rose's return saying only that he'll return when he's ready. I like that approach.

[Daventry]

I never recall it being said the Bears coaches wanted Cutler to leave the game.....

 

I still think the whole issue is very questionable, Cutler did not appear hurt and was frustrated....

 

Regardless, best wishes to RG3, he has the character one needs at the QB position and the maturity that we lack at the position IMO.

[Mongo3451]

I never recall it being said the Bears coaches wanted Cutler to leave the game.....

 

I still think the whole issue is very questionable, Cutler did not appear hurt and was frustrated....

 

Regardless, best wishes to RG3, he has the character one needs at the QB position and the maturity that we lack at the position IMO.

I believe Lovie yanked him after further evaluation at halftime.

[adam]

I never recall it being said the Bears coaches wanted Cutler to leave the game.....

 

I still think the whole issue is very questionable, Cutler did not appear hurt and was frustrated....

 

Regardless, best wishes to RG3, he has the character one needs at the QB position and the maturity that we lack at the position IMO.

 

Maturity? It just seems like people will always find something wrong with Cutler, regardless of the situation. RG3 is not mature, and in reality, his immaturity is what caused further damage to an already reconstructed knee. His immaturity and lack of proper decision making skills cost his team a possible playoff victory. To me, RG3 got swallowed in his own pride and hype. He even believes to this day that he was the "best option" to give his team a chance to win because "he was the starting QB", even after injuring his knee the first time in the game. However, based on the actual game, not the one in RG3's head, he was completely worthless and actually made his team significantly worse - which in turn resulted in a loss. But hey, he is a trooper, he stayed in and toughed it out, but for what? Try 8 months of recovery and probably a significantly shortened career.

 

Cutler didn't appear to be hurt? lol that is funny. Maybe he should've limped more. Sometimes injuries like that, especially with a joint or dislocation don't hurt as much as they feel funny or off. Urlacher had that wrist dislocation, but played thru it until halftime, not even knowing it was that bad.

 

Of course he was frustrated, it was like playing without an OLine, he was hit or hurried on almost every offensive snap. Also, his decision to leave the game almost resulted in a comeback win for us. If Hanie doesn't throw a pick-6 to Raji, that game is tied.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Maturity? It just seems like people will always find something wrong with Cutler, regardless of the situation. RG3 is not mature, and in reality, his immaturity is what caused further damage to an already reconstructed knee. His immaturity and lack of proper decision making skills cost his team a possible playoff victory. To me, RG3 got swallowed in his own pride and hype. He even believes to this day that he was the "best option" to give his team a chance to win because "he was the starting QB", even after injuring his knee the first time in the game. However, based on the actual game, not the one in RG3's head, he was completely worthless and actually made his team significantly worse - which in turn resulted in a loss. But hey, he is a trooper, he stayed in and toughed it out, but for what? Try 8 months of recovery and probably a significantly shortened career.

 

Cutler didn't appear to be hurt? lol that is funny. Maybe he should've limped more. Sometimes injuries like that, especially with a joint or dislocation don't hurt as much as they feel funny or off. Urlacher had that wrist dislocation, but played thru it until halftime, not even knowing it was that bad.

 

Of course he was frustrated, it was like playing without an OLine, he was hit or hurried on almost every offensive snap. Also, his decision to leave the game almost resulted in a comeback win for us. If Hanie doesn't throw a pick-6 to Raji, that game is tied.

1000% agree. What if Cutler had acted devastated? Then everyone would say he's a baby.

 

BTW, keep in mind that after RG3 went out, he hugged Shanahan with a smile, was talking to a random teammate laughing, and when they were on D, they showed him alone on the bench. What's the difference between that and looking frustrated and not helping the back-up QB? Last time I checked, what Cutler did could be thought of as a better way to handle yourself, seeing as if how RG3 was visibly laughing and thus giving off the impression he didn't care.

[adam]

1000% agree. What if Cutler had acted devastated? Then everyone would say he's a baby.

 

BTW, keep in mind that after RG3 went out, he hugged Shanahan with a smile, was talking to a random teammate laughing, and when they were on D, they showed him alone on the bench. What's the difference between that and looking frustrated and not helping the back-up QB? Last time I checked, what Cutler did could be thought of as a better way to handle yourself, seeing as if how RG3 was visibly laughing and thus giving off the impression he didn't care.

Or that he was faking it anyway.

 

Cutler cannot catch a break, and it is sort of surprising coming from Bears fans who should know their QB better than the national media and audience. We watch every game, every news conference, and should have a better idea of his character and personality than others. I was pretty critical of Cutler early on, but he has grown on me over the last few years. It is nice to have some continuity at the QB position for the first time in a long time.

 

Next year he will be the Bears all-time Passing leader in almost every single statistical category.

[Daventry]

Or that he was faking it anyway.

 

Cutler cannot catch a break, and it is sort of surprising coming from Bears fans who should know their QB better than the national media and audience. We watch every game, every news conference, and should have a better idea of his character and personality than others. I was pretty critical of Cutler early on, but he has grown on me over the last few years. It is nice to have some continuity at the QB position for the first time in a long time.

 

Next year he will be the Bears all-time Passing leader in almost every single statistical category.

 

 

I hope Cutler does have a good year next year, but we will see. I hope we can put together a really solid O Line so that he has a chance to show what he has got...

 

And RG3 showed real class and maturity throughout the year in my view, 100%. Whether he should have come out or not is speculation, just as all comments on Cutler's injury and leaving the game are.

[Bears4Ever_34]

The difference between what happened to RGIII and Cutler is pretty big. First of all, RGIII came into the game with a partially torn LCL already, and a big heavy brace on his right leg. We knew he was hurt even before he got hurt again. Cutler was seemingly healthy until halftime when everyone saw him standing there on the bench riding a bike. Nobody saw the injury happen, which is why he doesn't get the sympathy that Griffin does. Griffin's injury was right there in front of us to witness. It looked bad. Secondly, Cutler is an easy target for the media. We all know what the perception is like with him. RGIII is the anti-Cutler in that respect, which means the perception around him is completely different.

 

Do I think Cutler wishes he would have gone to greater lengths to stay in the game? Maybe. I could be completely wrong, but I feel like having gone through that experience, Cutler, in a way, regrets his decision not to go back out there, no matter how ineffective he would have been. Everytime you've seen him go down with something in the last two seasons, he's played through it. The broken thumb, the concussion, a bad neck and a hurt knee that occurred in the same game, bruised ribs etc.. I think all the bad press he got from that game plays a factor in his mind now with every injury he goes through during the rest of his career. If the same thing happened to him in 2013, under the same circumstances, I would find it hard to believe that he wouldn't do things a bit differently. That's just my two cents. Jay Cutler is as tough as they come.

[bowlingtwig]

Honestly im convinced it won't matter what Cutler does most of the national media will still find faults with him. Even if he had a better yr than Rodgers everyone will still hate Cutler. Even winning SB MVP won't help

[Daventry]

Honestly im convinced it won't matter what Cutler does most of the national media will still find faults with him. Even if he had a better yr than Rodgers everyone will still hate Cutler. Even winning SB MVP won't help

 

 

The national media don't pick on Cutler for no reason, he presents very poorly and has never managed to carry a team to the next level as so many other great QB's have.

 

If he even got the Bears to the Super Bowl he would receive great acclaim and if he managed to have sustained success he would be respected. All of the excuses for failure will be meaningless if he is not able to put up wins for the team, there are plenty of examples of QB's with the tools, ie Jeff George, who could not succeed in the NFL because of their lack of personal skills.

 

IMO Cutler has shown signs of maturing recently and I hope he is able to take the next step and become an elite QB.

[Daventry]

The difference between what happened to RGIII and Cutler is pretty big. First of all, RGIII came into the game with a partially torn LCL already, and a big heavy brace on his right leg. We knew he was hurt even before he got hurt again. Cutler was seemingly healthy until halftime when everyone saw him standing there on the bench riding a bike. Nobody saw the injury happen, which is why he doesn't get the sympathy that Griffin does. Griffin's injury was right there in front of us to witness. It looked bad. Secondly, Cutler is an easy target for the media. We all know what the perception is like with him. RGIII is the anti-Cutler in that respect, which means the perception around him is completely different.

 

Do I think Cutler wishes he would have gone to greater lengths to stay in the game? Maybe. I could be completely wrong, but I feel like having gone through that experience, Cutler, in a way, regrets his decision not to go back out there, no matter how ineffective he would have been. Everytime you've seen him go down with something in the last two seasons, he's played through it. The broken thumb, the concussion, a bad neck and a hurt knee that occurred in the same game, bruised ribs etc.. I think all the bad press he got from that game plays a factor in his mind now with every injury he goes through during the rest of his career. If the same thing happened to him in 2013, under the same circumstances, I would find it hard to believe that he wouldn't do things a bit differently. That's just my two cents. Jay Cutler is as tough as they come.

 

 

Exactly, and along with the baggage that Cutler brings of a poor attitude, which RG3 has never shown any signs of, perception of the incident is completely different. I would add that the perception of Cutler is entirely of his own making and certainly not attributable to outside bias.

 

Being a Bears fan does not mean ignoring reality and closing ones eyes to glaring issues at the most important position on the roster.

 

 

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Exactly, and along with the baggage that Cutler brings of a poor attitude, which RG3 has never shown any signs of, perception of the incident is completely different. I would add that the perception of Cutler is entirely of his own making and certainly not attributable to outside bias.

 

Being a Bears fan does not mean ignoring reality and closing ones eyes to glaring issues at the most important position on the roster.

Explain.

[Daventry]

Explain.

 

 

How would you suggest I explain? Cutler's attitude is constantly in question as evidenced in posts made in this thread.

 

Cutler comes in front of the camera with a very bored, one could interpret arrogant, demeanour which is backed up by incidents like grabbing an offensive linesman on the sidelines after he did this year.

 

Compare his press conferences and statements with professionals like Brady and Manning and tell me you don't see a difference.

 

Cutler did not get a bad rep just because his name is Cutler, he got it by appearing to have a poor attitude.

 

 

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

How would you suggest I explain? Cutler's attitude is constantly in question as evidenced in posts made in this thread.

 

Cutler comes in front of the camera with a very bored, one could interpret arrogant, demeanour which is backed up by incidents like grabbing an offensive linesman on the sidelines after he did this year.

 

Compare his press conferences and statements with professionals like Brady and Manning and tell me you don't see a difference.

 

Cutler did not get a bad rep just because his name is Cutler, he got it by appearing to have a poor attitude.

Yeah, because Webb was constantly getting Cutler's ass reemed by opposing pass rushers, game after game, year after year. Webb is lucky Cutler didn't smash his face with the gatorade cooler. Seriously, what if during your job, you had the same asshole interfering with you? Let's say you write reports for a company. What if some goof, every few minutes, came by and slapped the pen as you were writing, causing a huge, permanent, unprofessional line across the page? After about 30 minutes, your paper would look pretty f***ed up, no? You'd probably also like to kick him sterile, no?

 

So, he doesn't like doing interviews. That means you have a poor attitude? Rodgers looks bored too (he even ignored a cancer patient in an airport one time when she was seeking an autograph). So does Bill Belichick (ever hear one of his interviews?). Peyton Manning did one earlier this year with Trey Wingo where he kept giving 1-3 word answers, insinuating Wingo was a moron (which he is). How's that for an attitude? But I know, I know, they have championships so they can act like pricks.

 

What statements has he made that shows immaturity and/or a poor attitude? Has he ever verbally blamed anyone but himself? Not that I recall. Every loss ended with him saying "it starts with me, offensively." Have you heard him on his weekly radio show, where he's friendly with fans and the hosts? Apparently not.

 

The only reason Cutler is perceived how he is because he demanded a trade and played like ass in his first year. Since then, he's had a very impressive record on a team with ONE (maybe 2, depending on your views of Forte) in 4 years. Cut him some slack, especially when "attitude" means nothing.

[Daventry]

Yeah, because Webb was constantly getting Cutler's ass reemed by opposing pass rushers, game after game, year after year. Webb is lucky Cutler didn't smash his face with the gatorade cooler. Seriously, what if during your job, you had the same asshole interfering with you? Let's say you write reports for a company. What if some goof, every few minutes, came by and slapped the pen as you were writing, causing a huge, permanent, unprofessional line across the page? After about 30 minutes, your paper would look pretty f***ed up, no?

 

So, he doesn't like doing interviews. That means you have a poor attitude? Rodgers looks bored too (he even ignored a cancer patient in an airport one time when she was seeking an autograph). So does Bill Belichick (ever hear one of his interviews?). Peyton Manning did one earlier this year with Trey Wingo where he kept giving 1-3 word answers, insinuating Wingo was a moron (which he is). How's that for an attitude?

 

What statements has he made that shows immaturity and/or a poor attitude? Has he ever verbally blamed anyone but himself? Not that I recall. Every loss ended with him saying "it starts with me, offensively." Have you heard him on his weekly radio show, where he's friendly with fans and the hosts? Apparently not.

 

 

There are many QB's who get sacked and don't behave in that way. It is unhelpful and immature and would never result in a positive outcome.

 

Part of being a pro QB is doing interviews. Surprise surprise. QB's don't get paid like they do without media and fans.

 

Want to compare Billichik? Look at the W/L record. Manning? Please, he might give a bad interview here and there not as a rule. Also, again look at the W/L record.

 

I don't have the time or motivation to "prove" to you that Cutler is immature and/or has a poor attitude. Reference the myriad of media that will expound on the issue in depth.

 

I have not listened to all of Cutler's radio shows, can't say I am that motivated to, but regardless he needs to present better generally radio show or not.

 

At the end of the day, let's see what he does. I am quite sure Emery is going to ensure he has a solid O line soon. Wait and see what happens then, I know where I am betting.