Aaron Kromer hired as OC and O-Line coach

[lemonej]

It was before doing any research on him....I just saw he was a pro bowler and salivated a lil bit....then the more I research I did the more I saw he deserved the pro bowl nod as much as Derek Jeter deserves a gold glove every year.

 

I don't know what the Jeter reference means in regards to this but the only solid football related critique I saw and heard about him was from Jamie Dukes on NFL Network who said he doesn't like how long it takes Bushrod to get his opponent under control when blocking.In essence he said that DEs windup a little to close to the QB on pass plays. There was one film clip shown to support this.This was not a bunch of numbers trying to support his opinion but some actual game footage to support what was said. Since his former OL coach is here I'm sure he knows his short comings and can figure out ways to make him improve.

[scs787]

Or was it because your hard-on for Webb grew? Be honest man, tell the board how you know Webb. Is he a neighbor? Family friend? Did he donate time to a function you enjoy? There's gotta be a reason for you to so vehemently defend the dude while actively trying to downplay any possible replacement.

 

Nope my eyes were just opened. PFF wasn't the only source to open my eyes, Saints fans were saying the same things and they got to use the eye test that you guys like to put on Webb.

 

 

I didn't wanna have to "defend" Webb or "bash" the guys who were brought up as potential replacements but I saw legit arguments to be made and I made them.

 

I don't know what the Jeter reference means in regards to this but the only solid football related critique I saw and heard about him was from Jamie Dukes on NFL Network who said he doesn't like how long it takes Bushrod to get his opponent under control when blocking.In essence he said that DEs windup a little to close to the QB on pass plays. There was one film clip shown to support this.This was not a bunch of numbers trying to support his opinion but some actual game footage to support what was said. Since his former OL coach is here I'm sure he knows his short comings and can figure out ways to make him improve.

 

I just watch a whole games worth of footage and my arguments remain. I was just going along with guys saying he was riding the LGs coattails into the pro bowl, the whole game I just watched validated that statement to an extent.

 

Kromer and Trestman will do the same things they coulda done with Webb, give him help from a legit LG. Literal help, not just being lined up next to him but double teaming a guy. Plus they'll have Cutler get the ball out quicker so the line doesn't have to hold their blocks for that long.

 

 

[lemonej]

Nope my eyes were just opened. PFF wasn't the only source to open my eyes, Saints fans were saying the same things and they got to use the eye test that you guys like to put on Webb.

 

 

I didn't wanna have to "defend" Webb or "bash" the guys who were brought up as potential replacements but I saw legit arguments to be made and I made them.

 

 

 

I just watch a whole games worth of footage and my arguments remain. I was just going along with guys saying he was riding the LGs coattails into the pro bowl, the whole game I just watched validated that statement to an extent.

 

Kromer and Trestman will do the same things they coulda done with Webb, give him help from a legit LG. Literal help, not just being lined up next to him but double teaming a guy. Plus they'll have Cutler get the ball out quicker so the line doesn't have to hold their blocks for that long.

 

So I'll ask you now! Are you a Bear fan or a researcher? If the answer is yes I'm a researcher, then I can understand the clinical nature that you are approaching this. If your answer is I'm a fan then at some point your research doesn't matter. He is the starting LOT now and that is not going to change.

[scs787]

So I'll ask you now! Are you a Bear fan or a researcher? If the answer is yes I'm a researcher, then I can understand the clinical nature that you are approaching this. If your answer is I'm a fan then at some point your research doesn't matter. He is the starting LOT now and that is not going to change.

 

 

I'm a Bear fan with a bad memory who relies on research to refresh my memory. Yes, Bushrod will be our LT, no doubt, I just think if Webb got the same kind of help I saw Bushrod get he would have been just as good in pass protection (Though the PFF stats already argue that even without the help Webb was still better last year).

 

I can't address whether or not Webb got any help from his LG but I honestly can't recall much help from that position.

 

If someone can find me a full Bears game I'll gladly break it down.

[Stinger226]

I'm a Bear fan with a bad memory who relies on research to refresh my memory. Yes, Bushrod will be our LT, no doubt, I just think if Webb got the same kind of help I saw Bushrod get he would have been just as good in pass protection (Though the PFF stats already argue that even without the help Webb was still better last year).

 

I can't address whether or not Webb got any help from his LG but I honestly can't recall much help from that position.

 

If someone can find me a full Bears game I'll gladly break it down.

Your research is flawed, it doesnt really matter what we think, the Bears paid good money for a LT, so they think he is better or they wouldnt have went out and got him. I trust there judgement over yours.

[Pixote]

I must be dumber than a brick.

 

JB was voted to two Pro Bowls, that usually indicates he was pretty good at his position, in this case LT.

 

Now to get to the Pro Bowl it takes Fan Votes for one part, then players and coaches for the second part.

 

Now a huge fan base can unjustly tip the scales in favor of a player on their team. Fans are not always knowledgeable and will vote for anyone and everyone who plays for their team.

 

However, from what I am being told, NOS fans have no respect for JB because he was good only because of support from other players on the OL.

 

So I would assume that he would not get an unfair advantage do to the NOS fan base "stuffing the ballot box".

 

That leaves the players/coaches aspect of Pro Bowl voting.

 

Players and Coaches generally know who is good and who is bad and a player who is riding on the shirt tails of fellow players on the OL would not get many votes from the "insiders".

 

So, I guess my question is:

 

If he sucks so bad according to "stats" and the NOS loyal fans thinks he sucks, how in the hell does he get voted to 2 Pro Bowls?

[madlithuanian]

the voice of reason...

 

Well said Pix.

 

I must be dumber than a brick.

 

JB was voted to two Pro Bowls, that usually indicates he was pretty good at his position, in this case LT.

 

Now to get to the Pro Bowl it takes Fan Votes for one part, then players and coaches for the second part.

 

Now a huge fan base can unjustly tip the scales in favor of a player on their team. Fans are not always knowledgeable and will vote for anyone and everyone who plays for their team.

 

However, from what I am being told, NOS fans have no respect for JB because he was good only because of support from other players on the OL.

 

So I would assume that he would not get an unfair advantage do to the NOS fan base "stuffing the ballot box".

 

That leaves the players/coaches aspect of Pro Bowl voting.

 

Players and Coaches generally know who is good and who is bad and a player who is riding on the shirt tails of fellow players on the OL would not get many votes from the "insiders".

 

So, I guess my question is:

 

If he sucks so bad according to "stats" and the NOS loyal fans thinks he sucks, how in the hell does he get voted to 2 Pro Bowls?

 

[scs787]

I must be dumber than a brick.

 

JB was voted to two Pro Bowls, that usually indicates he was pretty good at his position, in this case LT.

 

Now to get to the Pro Bowl it takes Fan Votes for one part, then players and coaches for the second part.

 

Now a huge fan base can unjustly tip the scales in favor of a player on their team. Fans are not always knowledgeable and will vote for anyone and everyone who plays for their team.

 

However, from what I am being told, NOS fans have no respect for JB because he was good only because of support from other players on the OL.

 

So I would assume that he would not get an unfair advantage do to the NOS fan base "stuffing the ballot box".

 

That leaves the players/coaches aspect of Pro Bowl voting.

 

Players and Coaches generally know who is good and who is bad and a player who is riding on the shirt tails of fellow players on the OL would not get many votes from the "insiders".

 

So, I guess my question is:

 

If he sucks so bad according to "stats" and the NOS loyal fans thinks he sucks, how in the hell does he get voted to 2 Pro Bowls?

 

 

Look man, it's everywhere that he didn't deserve the Pro Bowl nods, I'm not the only one saying it.

 

What are your thoughts on Bushrod being listed under the "Starters with Questions" section in the top 85 Free agents on NFL.com??

 

34) Jermon Bushrod, OT, New Orleans Saints: Bushrod will be the perfect test case for proving what an average starting tackle with a random Pro Bowl nod gets on the market.

 

Drew Brees made that whole line look good. Further more Carl Nicks and Ben Grubbs made him look like a pro bowler....I'm not trying to be blasphemous or something like that, it's there and it's real.

 

and if the fans vote who wouldn't vote for a guy named Bushrod I mean c'mon man lmao JOKING!

[Stinger226]

Look man, it's everywhere that he didn't deserve the Pro Bowl nods, I'm not the only one saying it.

 

What are your thoughts on Bushrod being listed under the "Starters with Questions" section in the top 85 Free agents on NFL.com??

 

 

 

Drew Brees made that whole line look good. Further more Carl Nicks and Ben Grubbs made him look like a pro bowler....I'm not trying to be blasphemous or something like that, it's there and it's real.

 

and if the fans vote who wouldn't vote for a guy named Bushrod I mean c'mon man lmao JOKING!

there are plenty of people praising the signing and some condemning it. You keep picking opinions that support what you say, get real.

[lemonej]

I must be dumber than a brick.

 

JB was voted to two Pro Bowls, that usually indicates he was pretty good at his position, in this case LT.

 

Now to get to the Pro Bowl it takes Fan Votes for one part, then players and coaches for the second part.

 

Now a huge fan base can unjustly tip the scales in favor of a player on their team. Fans are not always knowledgeable and will vote for anyone and everyone who plays for their team.

 

However, from what I am being told, NOS fans have no respect for JB because he was good only because of support from other players on the OL.

 

So I would assume that he would not get an unfair advantage do to the NOS fan base "stuffing the ballot box".

 

That leaves the players/coaches aspect of Pro Bowl voting.

 

Players and Coaches generally know who is good and who is bad and a player who is riding on the shirt tails of fellow players on the OL would not get many votes from the "insiders".

 

So, I guess my question is:

 

If he sucks so bad according to "stats" and the NOS loyal fans thinks he sucks, how in the hell does he get voted to 2 Pro Bowls?

Boy do I appreciate this post because after you crunch numbers, its how they perform on the field not on paper. Just like we all knew and agree that the cuts of Davis and Spaeth were coming, the fact that Toeina was thrown in also is not surprising since he spent most of last year inactive. Looking at the current roster the safety depth needs to be addressed also.

[Stinger226]

Boy do I appreciate this post because after you crunch numbers, its how they perform on the field not on paper. Just like we all knew and agree that the cuts of Davis and Spaeth were coming, the fact that Toeina was thrown in also is not surprising since he spent most of last year inactive. Looking at the current roster the safety depth needs to be addressed also.

We have 7 safetys under contract, I believe our 4 come from that mix. Dont forget Hardin might be healthy this year.

[AZ54]

Nope my eyes were just opened. PFF wasn't the only source to open my eyes, Saints fans were saying the same things and they got to use the eye test that you guys like to put on Webb.

 

 

I didn't wanna have to "defend" Webb or "bash" the guys who were brought up as potential replacements but I saw legit arguments to be made and I made them.

 

 

 

I just watch a whole games worth of footage and my arguments remain. I was just going along with guys saying he was riding the LGs coattails into the pro bowl, the whole game I just watched validated that statement to an extent.

 

Kromer and Trestman will do the same things they coulda done with Webb, give him help from a legit LG. Literal help, not just being lined up next to him but double teaming a guy. Plus they'll have Cutler get the ball out quicker so the line doesn't have to hold their blocks for that long.

 

 

Maybe the real deal here is that we took Carimi out of the equation at tackle? We're all focused on Webb for obvious reasons but the reality is this team signed a LT, moved Webb back to RT where he'll compete with (they hope to re-sign) Jonathan Scott. It's not that difficult to read between the lines here and IMO they are telling us Carimi is either an OG or he's quite possibly not on the roster.

 

Part 2....yes why not put a healthy and durable Bushrod at LT (we know the other options and their risks) thinking you can get a very good OG to park next to him in the draft? So yes, I'd say we plan to do just what New Orleans had setup....very good OG next to average LT.

 

Our GM has already stated his intention to drop back in the draft. This from a guy who holds secrets so tight he makes diamonds. There is some good depth at OG heading into the early second round. QB is a very likely target around 20 IMO.

 

Lance Louis...are we that eager to have him back? Or will we take him back for the right price but we're content to move forward with Carimi and Brown at OG with a rookie thrown in the mix? My thoughts were that we had to have Louis back but I'm now doubting the organization sees it as that much of a need.

[scs787]

Maybe the real deal here is that we took Carimi out of the equation at tackle? We're all focused on Webb for obvious reasons but the reality is this team signed a LT, moved Webb back to RT where he'll compete with (they hope to re-sign) Jonathan Scott. It's not that difficult to read between the lines here and IMO they are telling us Carimi is either an OG or he's quite possibly not on the roster.

 

Part 2....yes why not put a healthy and durable Bushrod at LT (we know the other options and their risks) thinking you can get a very good OG to park next to him in the draft? So yes, I'd say we plan to do just what New Orleans had setup....very good OG next to average LT.

 

Our GM has already stated his intention to drop back in the draft. This from a guy who holds secrets so tight he makes diamonds. There is some good depth at OG heading into the early second round. QB is a very likely target around 20 IMO.

 

Lance Louis...are we that eager to have him back? Or will we take him back for the right price but we're content to move forward with Carimi and Brown at OG with a rookie thrown in the mix? My thoughts were that we had to have Louis back but I'm now doubting the organization sees it as that much of a need.

 

It depends on how they view Brown and ultimately, Carimi. I wasn't ready to give up on Carimi at RT but who knows, maybe they thought he had plenty of time to get healthy and he just flat out failed. I remember reading the following on rotoworld that left me a bit puzzled...

 

Bears RT Gabe Carimi opened training camp with "no injury concerns" after undergoing two knee surgeries since his rookie year.

He's dropped ten pounds and his body fat percentage from 26 to 19. Carimi also had knee problems at Wisconsin, but the second-year tackle and 2011 first-round pick is healthy now and projected as a starter. Carimi wound up playing only 100 snaps in his rookie year. Pro Football Focus graded him slightly negatively as both a pass and run blocker, but he should be better in 2012.

 

...That was before the season and kinda contradicts many of our beliefs. I think he ends up being the RG or the "utility" man who can fill in at tackle or guard in a pinch.

 

Brown is still a bit of the unkown of the group that I have no idea what to think of. If we can't get Cooper or Warmack he may compete with a rookie for the LG position.

 

 

[rockren]

Maybe the real deal here is that we took Carimi out of the equation at tackle? We're all focused on Webb for obvious reasons but the reality is this team signed a LT, moved Webb back to RT where he'll compete with (they hope to re-sign) Jonathan Scott. It's not that difficult to read between the lines here and IMO they are telling us Carimi is either an OG or he's quite possibly not on the roster.

 

Part 2....yes why not put a healthy and durable Bushrod at LT (we know the other options and their risks) thinking you can get a very good OG to park next to him in the draft? So yes, I'd say we plan to do just what New Orleans had setup....very good OG next to average LT.

 

Our GM has already stated his intention to drop back in the draft. This from a guy who holds secrets so tight he makes diamonds. There is some good depth at OG heading into the early second round. QB is a very likely target around 20 IMO.

 

Lance Louis...are we that eager to have him back? Or will we take him back for the right price but we're content to move forward with Carimi and Brown at OG with a rookie thrown in the mix? My thoughts were that we had to have Louis back but I'm now doubting the organization sees it as that much of a need.

 

I'm with you every step of the way on this thought process.

 

I do however feel Scott and Louis will both be back as the Bears currently have the room to do so. Scott performed well while call upon last year and really got an opportunity with the Bears. I think he'll be a dual backup for us next year at T AND G regardless of what happens as he showed great versatility. Louis is a different animal due to how his rehab has gone and whether or not he'll be ready to go for training camp (everything I've heard indicates he will be). Louis will probably look for a short term deal due having to prove his value again after tearing his ACL...he was our best OL last year and was headed for a big payday in my opinion.

 

In regards to Carimi- I believe his days as a T are over and they should be. I know Carimi as well as anyone on this board being a Madison resident and his father is my Physician. I was thrilled when the Bears drafted him, but KNEW he was going to have to be a RT. It didn't take more than a regular season game for Goose to point out how he "opens his gates" far too easy....especially his left side. However, Carimi is as good in the run as anyone the Bears have. I feel if Carimi was moved inside to G (preferably the right side) he would have inside help and could play up and down more.

 

With those things being said- I don't feel Carimi is penciled in as a starter anywhere and the Bears will dictate what they do with Carimi with what is available to them in the draft and the health/retention of Louis and Scott will also dictate what occurs with Gabe. If Cooper or Warmack at 20- I'm with the majority on this board saying the Bears had better pounce on either of them. If they're not- I believe Fluker could very well be our guy. Either way- Carimi could very well become expendable.

[Stinger226]

Maybe the real deal here is that we took Carimi out of the equation at tackle? We're all focused on Webb for obvious reasons but the reality is this team signed a LT, moved Webb back to RT where he'll compete with (they hope to re-sign) Jonathan Scott. It's not that difficult to read between the lines here and IMO they are telling us Carimi is either an OG or he's quite possibly not on the roster.

 

Part 2....yes why not put a healthy and durable Bushrod at LT (we know the other options and their risks) thinking you can get a very good OG to park next to him in the draft? So yes, I'd say we plan to do just what New Orleans had setup....very good OG next to average LT.

 

Our GM has already stated his intention to drop back in the draft. This from a guy who holds secrets so tight he makes diamonds. There is some good depth at OG heading into the early second round. QB is a very likely target around 20 IMO.

 

Lance Louis...are we that eager to have him back? Or will we take him back for the right price but we're content to move forward with Carimi and Brown at OG with a rookie thrown in the mix? My thoughts were that we had to have Louis back but I'm now doubting the organization sees it as that much of a need.

Your always well spoken, you need to keep up your common sense approach to viewing the Bears.

[Stinger226]

I'm with you every step of the way on this thought process.

 

I do however feel Scott and Louis will both be back as the Bears currently have the room to do so. Scott performed well while call upon last year and really got an opportunity with the Bears. I think he'll be a dual backup for us next year at T AND G regardless of what happens as he showed great versatility. Louis is a different animal due to how his rehab has gone and whether or not he'll be ready to go for training camp (everything I've heard indicates he will be). Louis will probably look for a short term deal due having to prove his value again after tearing his ACL...he was our best OL last year and was headed for a big payday in my opinion.

 

In regards to Carimi- I believe his days as a T are over and they should be. I know Carimi as well as anyone on this board being a Madison resident and his father is my Physician. I was thrilled when the Bears drafted him, but KNEW he was going to have to be a RT. It didn't take more than a regular season game for Goose to point out how he "opens his gates" far too easy....especially his left side. However, Carimi is as good in the run as anyone the Bears have. I feel if Carimi was moved inside to G (preferably the right side) he would have inside help and could play up and down more.

 

With those things being said- I don't feel Carimi is penciled in as a starter anywhere and the Bears will dictate what they do with Carimi with what is available to them in the draft and the health/retention of Louis and Scott will also dictate what occurs with Gabe. If Cooper or Warmack at 20- I'm with the majority on this board saying the Bears had better pounce on either of them. If they're not- I believe Fluker could very well be our guy. Either way- Carimi could very well become expendable.

I think they sign or draft a couple of more options and let it fall in to place according to what they show in training camp.

[lemonej]

We have 7 safetys under contract, I believe our 4 come from that mix. Dont forget Hardin might be healthy this year.

 

So with all the health issues of our starting safety tandem and the backups you feel comfortable going into next season with whatever they have signed on the roster. Then you hope that Hardin might be healthy? Really this is not a situation that you can possibly be assured that its okay. Wright,Conte, Stelz and Hardin all have an extensive injury history,If in one of the rounds the Bears have a draft pick,they should consider drafting a safety.

[Stinger226]

So with all the health issues of our starting safety tandem and the backups you feel comfortable going into next season with whatever they have signed on the roster. Then you hope that Hardin might be healthy? Really this is not a situation that you can possibly be assured that its okay. Wright,Conte, Stelz and Hardin all have an extensive injury history,If in one of the rounds the Bears have a draft pick,they should consider drafting a safety.

Your right, but it will have to be a risk,because we have limited draft picks, and will have to concentrate on more pressing needs. You cant fix all problems in one off season. We missing bodies at other positions, at least we have many there.

[GrizzlyBear]

I'm with you every step of the way on this thought process.

 

I do however feel Scott and Louis will both be back as the Bears currently have the room to do so. Scott performed well while call upon last year and really got an opportunity with the Bears. I think he'll be a dual backup for us next year at T AND G regardless of what happens as he showed great versatility. Louis is a different animal due to how his rehab has gone and whether or not he'll be ready to go for training camp (everything I've heard indicates he will be). Louis will probably look for a short term deal due having to prove his value again after tearing his ACL...he was our best OL last year and was headed for a big payday in my opinion.

 

In regards to Carimi- I believe his days as a T are over and they should be. I know Carimi as well as anyone on this board being a Madison resident and his father is my Physician. I was thrilled when the Bears drafted him, but KNEW he was going to have to be a RT. It didn't take more than a regular season game for Goose to point out how he "opens his gates" far too easy....especially his left side. However, Carimi is as good in the run as anyone the Bears have. I feel if Carimi was moved inside to G (preferably the right side) he would have inside help and could play up and down more.

 

With those things being said- I don't feel Carimi is penciled in as a starter anywhere and the Bears will dictate what they do with Carimi with what is available to them in the draft and the health/retention of Louis and Scott will also dictate what occurs with Gabe. If Cooper or Warmack at 20- I'm with the majority on this board saying the Bears had better pounce on either of them. If they're not- I believe Fluker could very well be our guy. Either way- Carimi could very well become expendable.

 

Well said, but I difer in that there is no way they get rid of carimi, You can be sure that Kromer will have watched tape of his college years again and seen what he wanted to see. If anything happens other then him starting a right tackle he will be our swing tackle, I be willing to bet Kromer will be more diligent then Tice with these lineman. I just dont see them giving up on a number 1 this early in the evalution period.

[lemonej]

The ideal scenario is that Scott is resigned and penciled in as the starter then Webb and Carimi get to show if they are worth working with to Kromer by accepting their demotions and fighting their way back in the lineup. I still contend that both may have been rushed along a little too fast and now they can be coached up with a new staff in place. These are still 2 young OTs with significant playing time on film that most coaches can see and correct there flaws.

[balta1701-A]

The ideal scenario is that Scott is resigned and penciled in as the starter then Webb and Carimi get to show if they are worth working with to Kromer by accepting their demotions and fighting their way back in the lineup. I still contend that both may have been rushed along a little too fast and now they can be coached up with a new staff in place. These are still 2 young OTs with significant playing time on film that most coaches can see and correct there flaws.

If Kromer decides he thinks Webb or Carimi aren't going to be useful pieces, and would rather fill the roster spot with a different body, that's his call. I'll take his decision at this point, he's got plenty of credibilty to spare on building an O-line.