jason Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 This hurts a lot. Takes the wind out of the sails from the hire (which was a questionable one). If you have Marinelli stay on, I'm okay with it, losing him is a huge huge issue. Huge huge issue? Why? I think any competent DC could have done what he did in the past three years with the talent available. Urlacher is one of the best MLBs in history, Tillman is one of the best at creating turnovers in history, Peppers is one of the best DEs in history. None of them are #1 at their position, but they are in the upper echelon. Add in a few other very good players like Briggs, Melton, etc., and I can see the same production, if not better production, from another DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daventry Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I don't feel like Marinelli did that much considering the quality of the players on the Bears, overall I expected more from all of the great media attention he received once he arrived. I don't feel he was bad but am not sad to see him go, let's re-do this coaching staff from top to bottom and build from the ground up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Huge huge issue? Why? I think any competent DC could have done what he did in the past three years with the talent available. Urlacher is one of the best MLBs in history, Tillman is one of the best at creating turnovers in history, Peppers is one of the best DEs in history. None of them are #1 at their position, but they are in the upper echelon. Add in a few other very good players like Briggs, Melton, etc., and I can see the same production, if not better production, from another DC. This unit has been a top defensive unit for years. It was under Lovie's tenure, soured under Babich, and was once again an elite defense under Marinelli. Rod is one of the most respected defensive coaches in the game. I know that you hate the Cover 2 but last I saw the 3-4 was torched by the Niners (vs. Packers). The fact of the matter is the Bears defense has worked and it has worked incredibly well. Not only that, I've seen young members of the defensive line take steps forward under Marinelli (Wooten, Melton, etc). You hear what ex players have to say about Rod and that says a lot. Not only that, but he's a leader and a voice that our players relate to and our comfortable with. They might find a great new guy to be the DC, but when you have one of the top units in the league (and this past year the defense played at an absolutely elite level) you damn well aught to be concerned when you lose the coaches which led that unit. Especially when you have an aging unit with a lot of talent still on it. Makes zero sense to change schemes at this point in time. Not when you were a 10 win team that underachived. That is a team with superbowl potential and it makes zero sense to risk what could now be an overhaul to the defensive side of the ball. I also think it is very clear that trestman doesn't have the relationships with defensive guys (now I do think if I were a top defensive assistant I'd want this job cause of the talent) but this is a major major blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 This unit has been a top defensive unit for years. It was under Lovie's tenure, soured under Babich, and was once again an elite defense under Marinelli. Rod is one of the most respected defensive coaches in the game. I know that you hate the Cover 2 but last I saw the 3-4 was torched by the Niners (vs. Packers). The fact of the matter is the Bears defense has worked and it has worked incredibly well. Not only that, I've seen young members of the defensive line take steps forward under Marinelli (Wooten, Melton, etc). You hear what ex players have to say about Rod and that says a lot. Not only that, but he's a leader and a voice that our players relate to and our comfortable with. They might find a great new guy to be the DC, but when you have one of the top units in the league (and this past year the defense played at an absolutely elite level) you damn well aught to be concerned when you lose the coaches which led that unit. Especially when you have an aging unit with a lot of talent still on it. Makes zero sense to change schemes at this point in time. Not when you were a 10 win team that underachived. That is a team with superbowl potential and it makes zero sense to risk what could now be an overhaul to the defensive side of the ball. I also think it is very clear that trestman doesn't have the relationships with defensive guys (now I do think if I were a top defensive assistant I'd want this job cause of the talent) but this is a major major blow. I'm probably sounding like a recording but,since Trestman is from the Miami Hurricane Jimmy Johnson tree why not put a call out to Butch Davis. He is a 4-3 guy and considered a DL guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 This unit has been a top defensive unit for years. It was under Lovie's tenure, soured under Babich, and was once again an elite defense under Marinelli. Rod is one of the most respected defensive coaches in the game. I know that you hate the Cover 2 but last I saw the 3-4 was torched by the Niners (vs. Packers). The fact of the matter is the Bears defense has worked and it has worked incredibly well. Not only that, I've seen young members of the defensive line take steps forward under Marinelli (Wooten, Melton, etc). You hear what ex players have to say about Rod and that says a lot. Not only that, but he's a leader and a voice that our players relate to and our comfortable with. They might find a great new guy to be the DC, but when you have one of the top units in the league (and this past year the defense played at an absolutely elite level) you damn well aught to be concerned when you lose the coaches which led that unit. Especially when you have an aging unit with a lot of talent still on it. Makes zero sense to change schemes at this point in time. Not when you were a 10 win team that underachived. That is a team with superbowl potential and it makes zero sense to risk what could now be an overhaul to the defensive side of the ball. I also think it is very clear that trestman doesn't have the relationships with defensive guys (now I do think if I were a top defensive assistant I'd want this job cause of the talent) but this is a major major blow. Agree that Rod is a top DC. I'd rather he remained, but if he wants to leave then thanks and good luck. If it was Lovie being fired that convinced him then so be it. We needed to improve the O to get to the next level and I'm in the camp that thinks we'll do well with another DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 This unit has been a top defensive unit for years. It was under Lovie's tenure, soured under Babich, and was once again an elite defense under Marinelli. Rod is one of the most respected defensive coaches in the game. I know that you hate the Cover 2 but last I saw the 3-4 was torched by the Niners (vs. Packers). The fact of the matter is the Bears defense has worked and it has worked incredibly well. Not only that, I've seen young members of the defensive line take steps forward under Marinelli (Wooten, Melton, etc). You hear what ex players have to say about Rod and that says a lot. Not only that, but he's a leader and a voice that our players relate to and our comfortable with. They might find a great new guy to be the DC, but when you have one of the top units in the league (and this past year the defense played at an absolutely elite level) you damn well aught to be concerned when you lose the coaches which led that unit. Especially when you have an aging unit with a lot of talent still on it. Makes zero sense to change schemes at this point in time. Not when you were a 10 win team that underachived. That is a team with superbowl potential and it makes zero sense to risk what could now be an overhaul to the defensive side of the ball. I also think it is very clear that trestman doesn't have the relationships with defensive guys (now I do think if I were a top defensive assistant I'd want this job cause of the talent) but this is a major major blow. I wish people would quit perpetuating the falsehood that this D has been consistently good. You can't say they've been good under Lovie then couch it with a "but Babich" comment. Besides that, both Rivera and Marinelli had mediocre/subpar years as well. 2004 - Rivera - 13th points / 21st yards 2005 - Rivera - 1/2 2006 - Rivera - 3/5 2007 - Babich - 16/28 2008 - Babich - 16/21 2009 - Babich - 21/17 2010 - Marinelli - 4/9 2011 - Marinelli - 14/17 2012 - Marinelli - 3/5 I agree players like Wooten and Melton have taken steps forward, but I don't give a damn about what ex-players say. They're damn near crying over the Lovie firing, and I don't think he's a great HC by a long shot. If the Bears wanted coaches with which the players are comfortable, then they should have kept Club Med Lovie. Regarding this year and the elite status you bestow upon them, I think it was a lot of luck in the beginning of the season. No team gets that many turnovers that consistently and that quickly. On top of that, in their first five games they started out with Luck's first pro game, got the Rams, as well as the Jaguars. I expect they'd look good. It's possible the team takes a step back, but I don't think it will be difficult to replace Marinelli. Maybe his reputation, that'll be hard to replace. But, then again, Tice is supposed to have a reputation as an OL genius, and that has proven utterly false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I wish people would quit perpetuating the falsehood that this D has been consistently good. You can't say they've been good under Lovie then couch it with a "but Babich" comment. Besides that, both Rivera and Marinelli had mediocre/subpar years as well. 2004 - Rivera - 13th points / 21st yards 2005 - Rivera - 1/2 2006 - Rivera - 3/5 2007 - Babich - 16/28 2008 - Babich - 16/21 2009 - Babich - 21/17 2010 - Marinelli - 4/9 2011 - Marinelli - 14/17 2012 - Marinelli - 3/5 I agree players like Wooten and Melton have taken steps forward, but I don't give a damn about what ex-players say. They're damn near crying over the Lovie firing, and I don't think he's a great HC by a long shot. If the Bears wanted coaches with which the players are comfortable, then they should have kept Club Med Lovie. Regarding this year and the elite status you bestow upon them, I think it was a lot of luck in the beginning of the season. No team gets that many turnovers that consistently and that quickly. On top of that, in their first five games they started out with Luck's first pro game, got the Rams, as well as the Jaguars. I expect they'd look good. It's possible the team takes a step back, but I don't think it will be difficult to replace Marinelli. Maybe his reputation, that'll be hard to replace. But, then again, Tice is supposed to have a reputation as an OL genius, and that has proven utterly false. So Marinelli had a top 5 defensive unit in points in 2 out of his 3 years. That is pretty damn good. And excluding Babich's years you had a top 5 unit in 4 out of 6 years (including the #1 ranked unit one year). Like I said, Babich was a total failure and i blame Lovie for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I wish people would quit perpetuating the falsehood that this D has been consistently good. You can't say they've been good under Lovie then couch it with a "but Babich" comment. Besides that, both Rivera and Marinelli had mediocre/subpar years as well. 2004 - Rivera - 13th points / 21st yards 2005 - Rivera - 1/2 2006 - Rivera - 3/5 2007 - Babich - 16/28 2008 - Lovie - 16/21 2009 - Lovie - 21/17 2010 - Marinelli - 4/9 2011 - Marinelli - 14/17 2012 - Marinelli - 3/5 I agree players like Wooten and Melton have taken steps forward, but I don't give a damn about what ex-players say. They're damn near crying over the Lovie firing, and I don't think he's a great HC by a long shot. If the Bears wanted coaches with which the players are comfortable, then they should have kept Club Med Lovie. Regarding this year and the elite status you bestow upon them, I think it was a lot of luck in the beginning of the season. No team gets that many turnovers that consistently and that quickly. On top of that, in their first five games they started out with Luck's first pro game, got the Rams, as well as the Jaguars. I expect they'd look good. It's possible the team takes a step back, but I don't think it will be difficult to replace Marinelli. Maybe his reputation, that'll be hard to replace. But, then again, Tice is supposed to have a reputation as an OL genius, and that has proven utterly false. Actually, Lovie took over the Defense play calling from Babich in 2009: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3831098 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 So Marinelli had a top 5 defensive unit in points in 2 out of his 3 years. That is pretty damn good. And excluding Babich's years you had a top 5 unit in 4 out of 6 years (including the #1 ranked unit one year). Like I said, Babich was a total failure and i blame Lovie for that. First, you can't just pull 3 years out of the entire picture to improve your stance. The Bears, under a defensive minded HC, had a top 5 unit in 4 out of the last 9 years. I would be curious to see where other perennial defensive teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore ranked in the same timeframe. You can also see the drop off after the firing of Rivera and the SB loss. 2 out of 6 seasons in the top 5 for a defense that is supposed to be the strength of the team. That too is not acceptable. We should've been a top 5 defense every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I think what's really in question here is Marinelli as a DC. And his worst year was still better than the best year of the guy before him. While I can agree that having Tillman, Urlacher, Peppers, and Briggs on your D makes your job easier, to have the kind of success Marinelli has had (plus, guys like Melton and Timmy Jennings developed under his watch) is plenty good enough to suggest that anyone who thinks that he'll be easily replaced is taking the success of our D for granted. Still, "a significant loss" might be more appropriate than "huge, huge issue", especially since we ought to be able to attract a pretty good DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I think what's really in question here is Marinelli as a DC, and his worst year was still better than the best year of the guy before him. While I can agree that having Tillman, Urlacher, Peppers, and Briggs on your D makes your job easier, to have the kind of success Marinelli has had is plenty good enough to suggest that anyone who thinks that he'll be easily replaced is taking the success of our D for granted. or the scheme that was used to ad nauseam actually limited the true potential of the players and team. Just think of some deception built into our defense. Not just the silly pre-snap ritual where the LB's run to the line only to back pedal back to their positions at the snap. Soooo tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I wish people would quit perpetuating the falsehood that this D has been consistently good. You can't say they've been good under Lovie then couch it with a "but Babich" comment. Besides that, both Rivera and Marinelli had mediocre/subpar years as well. 2004 - Rivera - 13th points / 21st yards 2005 - Rivera - 1/2 2006 - Rivera - 3/5 2007 - Babich - 16/28 2008 - Babich - 16/21 2009 - Babich - 21/17 2010 - Marinelli - 4/9 2011 - Marinelli - 14/17 2012 - Marinelli - 3/5 I agree players like Wooten and Melton have taken steps forward, but I don't give a damn about what ex-players say. They're damn near crying over the Lovie firing, and I don't think he's a great HC by a long shot. If the Bears wanted coaches with which the players are comfortable, then they should have kept Club Med Lovie. Regarding this year and the elite status you bestow upon them, I think it was a lot of luck in the beginning of the season. No team gets that many turnovers that consistently and that quickly. On top of that, in their first five games they started out with Luck's first pro game, got the Rams, as well as the Jaguars. I expect they'd look good. It's possible the team takes a step back, but I don't think it will be difficult to replace Marinelli. Maybe his reputation, that'll be hard to replace. But, then again, Tice is supposed to have a reputation as an OL genius, and that has proven utterly false. Babich had Alex Brown and a gimpy Tommie Harris. Marinelli had Julius Peppers. Nuf said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 or the scheme that was used to ad nauseam actually limited the true potential of the players and team. Just think of some deception built into our defense. Not just the silly pre-snap ritual where the LB's run to the line only to back pedal back to their positions at the snap. Soooo tricky. Precisely. While it's possible a new candidate could have a lower floor than Marinelli, it's also possible to have a higher ceiling. The reality is, as long as a viable candidate is hired, the defense should perform similarly to how they have performed under Marinelli. And if we're lucky, we get a guy at DC who improves the team by maximizing the talent instead of potentially limiting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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