scs787 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I don't know much about him. Can't say i see to many UGA games. 1st impression i have is that he looks interesting. Dude isn't just huge but for a guy who weighs 355 i gotta say he carries that weight very well. Looks very good for that size. Nfldraftscout.com. also confirms ur 5th rd thinking having him currently as the #14 DT on there board. But didn't see him listed for any AS games is confusing. But good workouts plus his bloodline could get him into 4 im guessing Gotta figure that has something to do with him being forced to play out of position. He's not suited to play the 5 technique (outside DT/DE)..If Jenkins never came along he'd be getting a lot more attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 If we go to 3-4 we would have to draft different CB's as well NT and additional lb's Cover 2 corners like Peanut and TJ would not hang playing off the ball in 3-4. Need cover corners that can run with recievers. I dont see it happening this year or the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 San Fran and Baltimore run a 3-4 as well and look where they are this year. Also the Pack comment was more based on what they do with Clay Matthews and how I want the Bears to utilize SMC the same way. I think if we keep him at DE I'll have to live through years of Bears fan calling him a bust. That would be rushing the passer and occasionally dropping back into coverage? Which is exactly what he did last year. What you really mean is that you wish SMC could rush the passer like Clay Matthews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I don't buy this at all. Finding the big NT for a 3-4 scheme can be incredibly difficult. Teams that make that switch struggle all of the time because of that position. There is wisdom here. Years ago teams like New England switched to a 3-4 in part because it was easier to find players that fit that system. That was due to the fact that most 4-3 defenses had no use for a huge NT who could do little more than play run defense and force double teams. Same with the LBs who often were labeled as tweeners (too big and slow to be a 4-3 MLB or too small to be a DE in most schemes). The back end (DBs) of these defenses is, as far as I know, interchangeable with a 4-3 depending on what scheme that coach wants to run. Now that so many teams want to run 3-4 many have trouble finding the NT. Supply and demand. Or they struggle to find the pass rushing LB. So yes it comes back to personnel as usual. One plus for having the 3-4 is having someone able to cover TEs or rush the passer on the field at all times. Guys like Gronkowski get open anyway. Teams have countered that with looking for safeties who are better in pass coverage and less like mini-LBs. The way the NFL rules are structured now for offense I am of the mindset that the only real way to stop an offense is to get after the QB. Doesn't matter if you can't rush the passer out of a 3-4 or 4-3 you are going to struggle all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 San Fran and Baltimore run a 3-4 as well and look where they are this year. Also the Pack comment was more based on what they do with Clay Matthews and how I want the Bears to utilize SMC the same way. I think if we keep him at DE I'll have to live through years of Bears fan calling him a bust. Baltimore's defense wasn't as good as the Bears D this year. The Niners have the best D in the league (right with the Bears). Point being,our defense is legit. Why the hell would we want to screw with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Baltimore's defense wasn't as good as the Bears D this year. The Niners have the best D in the league (right with the Bears). Point being,our defense is legit. Why the hell would we want to screw with it. I could understand if they didn't want to mess with the defense this year. But moving forward 2-3 years from now, I hate the idea of us having to stay with the same (or mostly the same) system that Lovie Smith ran here as a coach. A new coach shouldn't have to worry about hurting the feelings of some of the vets on defense because they all had an appreciation for Lovie. Most of the star defensive players on this team are all on the wrong side of 30, and the arrow is not pointing up, it's going down. If they want to keep a similar system for a year, I'm okay with it. But they should not be wasting away a potential move to another defense because of these older guys. They can adjust or GTFO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daventry Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I could understand if they didn't want to mess with the defense this year. But moving forward 2-3 years from now, I hate the idea of us having to stay with the same (or mostly the same) system that Lovie Smith ran here as a coach. A new coach shouldn't have to worry about hurting the feelings of some of the vets on defense because they all had an appreciation for Lovie. Most of the star defensive players on this team are all on the wrong side of 30, and the arrow is not pointing up, it's going down. If they want to keep a similar system for a year, I'm okay with it. But they should not be wasting away a potential move to another defense because of these older guys. They can adjust or GTFO. I agree completely, if we want to have a new coach and system come in we must let them put their framework in place. We are getting old at many positions on D and will need quite a bit of new blood anyway, so we are at a good point to make some changes. I am an old fan of the 4-3 but recognise that things change and the main thing is about winning. We didn't win enough with Lovie, we need to win more now, let's see what Trestmann and Co. can do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 While googling "What are the defensive responsibilities of players in a 3-4" look what I came across... The alignment can show a lot for a defense. The strongside DE is responsible for the B and C gaps on the strong side in the run game and controlling the OT in the passing game. The weakside DE is responsible for the B and C gaps on the weak side and controlling the OT on his side in the passing game. The Nose Tackle is responsible for controlling the center of the formation and both A gaps, while trying to draw double teams in both the run and the pass game.The Ideal players for this scheme based on the roles in the 2011 draft: Parcells Strongside DE - Marcell Dareus, played 3-4 DE at the University of Alabama Parcells Nose Tackle - Stephen Paea, played 4-3 DT at Oregon State University Parcells Weakside DE - Cameron Jordan, played 3-4 DE at the University of California http://www.scardraft.com/Parcells34.html The guy who made it is listed as "Founder of ScarDraft. Writer for Drafttek. Featured Columnist at Bleacher Report. NFL Capologist, Schemeologist and Draftologist. Atlanta native and fan." So while those sites are nothing important he does have a some knowledge on it... While I think he needs to get a bit of a wider body I tend to agree with the guy. Paea is one of, if not the strongest player in the NFL. Griz, you can still play some cover 2 in a 3-4. AZ, moving to a 3-4 has Shea on the field at all times and adds another young impact player to the defense which is the main purpose of making the switch. Our D is legit for now but adding SMC on an every down basis makes it younger and better for the future...If they can snag Ogletree in the 1st and move SMC in to a position where he plays every down you have 2 really solid building blocks for the next 10 years. Unless SMC can play LB in a 4-3 which I'm still interested in hearing some opinions on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 If Paea was so strong, then why didn't the Bears have the league's best run defense this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 If Paea was so strong, then why didn't the Bears have the league's best run defense this year? I'm basing that statement on the fact that he holds the record for most reps in the combine....That tells me he's pretty damn strong. One player being strong doesn't make the whole defense great against the run... perhaps it's because Melton is not that great against the run (negative run grade on PFF). Actually, and I never knew this, listen to the guys on the NFL Network at the end of that video. They even talk about him being a 3-4 nose tackle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I wouldn't mind a change to a 3-4, but that would mean about 4 or 5 of the picks this year would have to be for the defense and about 2 or 3 next year as well. I find this almost impossible unless they sign a few FA OL's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I wouldn't mind a change to a 3-4, but that would mean about 4 or 5 of the picks this year would have to be for the defense and about 2 or 3 next year as well. I find this almost impossible unless they sign a few FA OL's. Im thinking best guess is 3-4 yrs down the rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 What are these players we need besides depth? Depending on how they view Paea, a starting or backup NT is needed. In my draft I addressed that. If Urlachers gone a LB, which I addressed. Depending on how they view guys like Geno Hayes, Patrick Trahan, Blake Castanzo, JT Thomas etc etc they may need to add another solid LB that can play all 4 positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Fun fact...Bears are the only team to never use the 3-4 as their base defense. Another fun fact...I have no life and am on here 24-7 =p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Fun fact...Bears are the only team to never use the 3-4 as their base defense. Another fun fact...I have no life and am on here 24-7 =p Sounds like it. Sometimes i wish i could trade. Would be nice just to see my wife and boys more than 1 day a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Sounds like it. Sometimes i wish i could trade. Would be nice just to see my wife and boys more than 1 day a week Trust me no don't, I've been outta work for 6 months and I'm about to go insane! All I have keeping me sane is talkbears and soxtalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Trust me no don't, I've been outta work for 6 months and I'm about to go insane! All I have keeping me sane is talkbears and soxtalk. And im on the road 6 days a week with a pregnant wife back home and 2 boys who are very much daddys boys. It sucks at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 And im on the road 6 days a week with a pregnant wife back home and 2 boys who are very much daddys boys. It sucks at times Well at least you know you're out there working to support them. But lets get back to football because I can literally go on and on about talking about life haha.... What more do we need to make the change to a 3-4 besides a NT, another LB, and maybe another fast CB? Might not be able to get all that this year but if it's something Emery and Tucker wanna do I don't see why it can't be done as early next year (2014). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Griz, you can still play some cover 2 in a 3-4. OK you're not getting it. Cover-2 as it is called isnt about coverages. We play all kinds of zones and man to man defense. What they call the "Cover 2" or "Tampa 2" is much more about what the front four do than what coverage is behind them. The Tampa Two really ought to be correctly called a ONE GAP defense. The staple of it is that the front four each attack a gap. And the LBs and one safety are also responsible for one gap each. The benefit is that you are attacking from the snap of the ball, the drawback is that your safety becomes the second line of defense if someone gets into the wrong gap. When you say that the DT doesn't do anything but be big, you're really misunderstanding. That's the role of a giant TWO GAP tackle and NOT a ONE GAPPER. Our entire defense is built on the premise of being a one gap team. A lot of the turnovers we get have to do with the pressure that a one gap defense brings. You may have heard that Warren Sapp is the engine that makes it go? Well thats the major difference between a one gap defense and a two gap. So this whole idea that you can just plug in the players youve got and play a 2 gap front is pretty ridiculous. So yeah, you've got a hard on for the 3-4 good for you, but youre not understanding the changes that would be required. Not to mention that fact that our current group of players is doing really well in a one gap scheme. If you think the staple of the Cover 2 is the coverage, then youre showing how little you understand about how these fronts work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 OK you're not getting it. Cover-2 as it is called isnt about coverages. We play all kinds of zones and man to man defense. What they call the "Cover 2" or "Tampa 2" is much more about what the front four do than what coverage is behind them. The Tampa Two really ought to be correctly called a ONE GAP defense. The staple of it is that the front four each attack a gap. And the LBs and one safety are also responsible for one gap each. The benefit is that you are attacking from the snap of the ball, the drawback is that your safety becomes the second line of defense if someone gets into the wrong gap. When you say that the DT doesn't do anything but be big, you're really misunderstanding. That's the role of a giant TWO GAP tackle and NOT a ONE GAPPER. Our entire defense is built on the premise of being a one gap team. A lot of the turnovers we get have to do with the pressure that a one gap defense brings. You may have heard that Warren Sapp is the engine that makes it go? Well thats the major difference between a one gap defense and a two gap. So this whole idea that you can just plug in the players youve got and play a 2 gap front is pretty ridiculous. So yeah, you've got a hard on for the 3-4 good for you, but youre not understanding the changes that would be required. Not to mention that fact that our current group of players is doing really well in a one gap scheme. If you think the staple of the Cover 2 is the coverage, then youre showing how little you understand about how these fronts work. As far as the bolded goes, every team that makes the switch does just that. You don't bring in a whole new team or anything. Lets use the latest example. Indy switched over last year and used a grand total of 2 picks on defense last year... in the 5th and 7th round. Griz was talking about our corners in a cover 2 so I talked specifically on them. He said 3-4s use man to man so it wouldnt work with our corners, and I said you can still use cover 2...perhaps what I should have said is you can still use zone coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 As far as the bolded goes, every team that makes the switch does just that. You don't bring in a whole new team or anything. Lets use the latest example. Indy switched over last year and used a grand total of 2 picks on defense last year... in the 5th and 7th round. Griz was talking about our corners in a cover 2 so I talked specifically on them. He said 3-4s use man to man so it wouldnt work with our corners, and I said you can still use cover 2...perhaps what I should have said is you can still use zone coverage. I wouldn't use Indy as an example man. That defense was horrible last yr and was only saved because of some guy named Andrew Luck, u know that #1 overall pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Also, 2-gap seems bad timing as we transition from having elite linebackers and middling interior defensive linemen (in the past) to aging linebackers and high motor interior defensive linemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I wouldn't use Indy as an example man. That defense was horrible last yr and was only saved because of some guy named Andrew Luck, u know that #1 overall pick They also don't have near the talent we have past Freeney and Mathis. So ya I guess that was a bad example but I'm just saying NFL teams do use existing players to transition from the 4-3 to the 3-4. Paea was said to be a 3-4 nose tackle and SMC is said to be a 3-4 OLB coming out of the draft...so in a way it's like we're already building towards one (thought I know Paea was a JA pick). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Also, 2-gap seems bad timing as we transition from having elite linebackers and middling interior defensive linemen (in the past) to aging linebackers and high motor interior defensive linemen. That high interior defensive lineman we're talking about would look pretty good at DE esp. considering he wasn't great in run defense. In this scenario, aka my mock world, 54 is gone and we drafted Alec Ogletree and moved SMC to a linebacker position so all of a sudden our LB core doesn't look that old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 They also don't have near the talent we have past Freeney and Mathis. So ya I guess that was a bad example but I'm just saying NFL teams do use existing players to transition from the 4-3 to the 3-4. Paea was said to be a 3-4 nose tackle and SMC is said to be a 3-4 OLB coming out of the draft...so in a way it's like we're already building towards one (thought I know Paea was a JA pick). Paea is not a 3-4 NT i don't care what the pundits say. Sure hes strong but hes not big and he doesn't command a double team at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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